it's interesting how frequently is mentioned that Messi's teammates are much better than Ronaldo's, yet the fact that Ronaldo has worked under much better managers is always ignored.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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On seventies teams attacked probably more than now. Eighties and nineties were more defensive but seventies were on pair with now. Fifties and Sixties were far more attacking.
The greatest in form year in the history of the game, by the current best player in the world and winner of the most ballon d'or awards in history .
The fact Ronaldo wasn't able to beat this record of messis suggests he's never had as much of an in form year . Which means messis in form year is better than anything Ronaldo has ever done over the course of 365 days .
It's just banter.
This logic here reminds me of one of those philosophy essays I read for my class. They'd twist and turn a simple thing into trying to convince you that yes, a toothbrush on the floor is clean and not dirty.
Guardiola is one of the greatest managers today and created arguably the greatest club team ever. He helped Messi overcome his injury problems and develop further as a player. But you have a point in that SAF, Mou and Carlo are all great managers whereas only Guardiola from Messi's managers is on that level.
Agreed on all counts. In that case, I take issue with your description of a Messi fanboy: "those that think Messi is some kind of God tier footballer way ahead of Ronaldo are fanboying". I don't mindlessly support Messi no matter what but I think he is significantly better than Ronaldo, on the whole. He's at a similar level as a goalscorer and a better creator. On the whole, they're the only things that matter for Messi and Ronaldo - end product in the final third. You could argue Messi also controls the game, but I don't think he quite does that to a level worth talking about. The talk about Ronaldo being better at heading, shooting, faster etc. are largely irrelevant because they all are ultimately focused around his ability to score goals - he doesn't offer an awful lot outside of that. Those qualities, which he is obviously superior at, are an important part of his obscene goalscoring record but don't make much difference beyond that.
For example, I think his three consecutive final losses is a significant blight on his career, and the idea that it's his team-mates' fault for not winning an international tournament is silly. Even sillier is the idea that he simply plays in a team not good enough to win an international tournament - a myth that was perpetuated over and over again prior to 2014 WC, but the fact they've been able to reach those three finals put that argument to bed. It's not a dominant team like Spain a few years ago, but it's certainly good enough to win a tournament. He's failed.
I also don't think he's the greatest player of all-time. I think it's arguable he's not even the 2nd best Argentine footballer of all-time.
The idea that only Messi fanboys think Messi is significantly better is just wrong, IMO. You can't just dismiss it as fanboyism because you don't agree with it. That's fanboyism.
Current? I wouldn't even have him in the top 3 for 2016.
Yet Ronaldo has consistently outscored him for a few years...
There is an interesting correlation between those who think Ronaldo is better and those who believe Januzaj will be a top drawer player .
I.e. Both are deluded
I.e. Both are deluded
Remind me who won the last ballon d'or? He's the current best player in the world . You've used that argument with Ronaldo before.
The Ballon D'or indicates he was the best player in the world in 2015.
I think that some of Messi skills have been mythologized in some God-like level. Like:
- he's the best passer of all time. Sorry, but that is bullshit. Even in my lifetime, I would put Riquelme easily ahead of him. Laudrup too. Who knows for other eras, but Maradona looked every bit as good (if not better) than Messi on him.
- he's the best playmaker of all time or some other nonsense. Xavi was far far better than him on it. He averaged 100+ passes, with 94% accuracy or so over the course of seasons. Add to that, he made a significant defensive contribution, which helped Barca get the ball back and start new actions. Messi doesn't even bother on doing that. The only thing on playmaking skills he has on Xavi is the final ball. I would add Pirlo and Scholes as two other players who controlled the matches better than Messi. Sure, completely other positions, but still, if you count him as playmaker, then they were better than him on that.
- best dribbler of all time. I think that the other Argie was better than Messi on it, though it comes close. Cruyff and Best were also as good as Messi on dribbling.
Now, what makes Messi unique, is that he had all these skills (a great passer, a great playmaker, and one of the top dribblers of all time) in addition to being one of the best goalscorers of all time (likely in top 3 together with Pele and C. Ronaldo). However, it needs to be said that when Messi started getting concentrated more on playmaking, then his end-product declined (which is to be expected), so for most part it was either a to goalscorer with a very good all round play, or a player with top all round play while being a very good goalscorer.
Still, that is more than probably anyone bar Pele. He has so much points on favor of him, without the need of adding things.
- he's the best passer of all time. Sorry, but that is bullshit. Even in my lifetime, I would put Riquelme easily ahead of him. Laudrup too. Who knows for other eras, but Maradona looked every bit as good (if not better) than Messi on him.
- he's the best playmaker of all time or some other nonsense. Xavi was far far better than him on it. He averaged 100+ passes, with 94% accuracy or so over the course of seasons. Add to that, he made a significant defensive contribution, which helped Barca get the ball back and start new actions. Messi doesn't even bother on doing that. The only thing on playmaking skills he has on Xavi is the final ball. I would add Pirlo and Scholes as two other players who controlled the matches better than Messi. Sure, completely other positions, but still, if you count him as playmaker, then they were better than him on that.
- best dribbler of all time. I think that the other Argie was better than Messi on it, though it comes close. Cruyff and Best were also as good as Messi on dribbling.
Now, what makes Messi unique, is that he had all these skills (a great passer, a great playmaker, and one of the top dribblers of all time) in addition to being one of the best goalscorers of all time (likely in top 3 together with Pele and C. Ronaldo). However, it needs to be said that when Messi started getting concentrated more on playmaking, then his end-product declined (which is to be expected), so for most part it was either a to goalscorer with a very good all round play, or a player with top all round play while being a very good goalscorer.
Still, that is more than probably anyone bar Pele. He has so much points on favor of him, without the need of adding things.
No it indicates that the trophy given to the worlds best player is currently his , and is his until January. The same way Leicester are still champions of England until May 2017.
Serious question , if Ronaldo is better then why hasn't he won more ballon d'ors than messi ?
Xavi's passing accuracy . Of that 94%, I bet you 80+% of them were sideways . Messi is a far superior playmaker than Xavi
I really do not hold the three finals losses against Messi at all. People always underestimate how small the margins are. The three finals Argentina lost these last three years one was in extra time and the other two were penalty shootouts. I also am not giving a ton of credit to Portugal for the Euro win since they won one match out of 7.
Messi is better at making the final pass. Xavi was better at controlling the match, and basically a team with Xavi had always the ball.
Xavi also had an insane number of assists. If I am not mistaken, he managed 30+ assists or so in some season. So, it wasn't exactly Tom Cleverley types of passing.
I'm not ignoring league titles. Messi has won La Liga. Ronaldo has also won La Liga and he has won the premier league. Like I said Ronaldo has won everything Messi has. Messi has not won everything Ronaldo has.
5 actually and this is my last. Fun while it lastedYou should really stop wasting your 10 posts per daycheap dig
Wrong . Messi has won 5 ballon d'ors. Ronaldo has not
~20 assists in 09/10 for Barcelona and Spain according to transfermarkt and statbunker.
Being the current holder does not make him the current best player.
Leicester are champions until May 2017 does not make them the best team till May 2017.
Let's not get started about the one he won in 2010
3! Portugal beat Croatia & France
Agreed. Besides, Messi can't play the Xavi role because he is too static for that. Xavi was always among the players who covered most distance per game, over 11 and up to 12-13 km. Compare that to Messi's 7-8 km per game.
Never agreed with that Ballon D'Or, but it was definitely more deserved than Ronaldo's second Ballon D'Or.
That's a debate for another time...
Ok take it away . He still has more . Why ?
If I am not mistaken, he had 30 assists in 08-09 in all competitions (for Barca). I might be wrong though @Brwned @Invictus
Still, it is an insane number, likely higher than Messi ever made. But to add to that, Xavi was making near 100 passes per match, with an accuracy of 93-96% over the course of the entire season, and was covering a crazy amount of ground (i.e being always near the ball).
If I had to design a playmaker, that would be Xavi.
Only for a few more months, also because Blatter likes Messi better
Well Xavi's job was to control the game from deep. But he was still very capable of creating from there and in 2008/09 racked up over 30 assists, which was exceptional given he was typically 30 yards behind the opposition defensive line.
Yep, you're right, Xavi had 28 assists in 2008/2009.
Will have to dig through the entire montage, to find 'em, though.
Just noticed this is for home only . That pass completion though is absolutely incredible
I'm offended that this nick guy is a full member and I'm not 
You see how immature your argument gets when you are presented with a simple fact ? Messi has won 2 more ballon d'ors as we speak right now and is therefore the better player over the last 8 years .
And if Ronaldo wins the ballon d'or in January , he really had better put in some godly performances for the first half of the season . Yes Ronaldo won the titles , but from an individual performance standpoint , every single player in the Leicester team played more consistently than Ronaldo. Goals aside , the vast majority of his performances on the pitch were dogshit and you know it . Even his own fans booed him on several occasions he was playing that bad.
Alright, fine. It just sounds like fanboyism sometimes though when people complete dismiss Ronaldo as some sort of glorified poacher not fit to even be discussed among the greats.
I will happily say that Ronaldo is the greatest goalscorer of all time. Footballs about more than that to me though.
If you're going with absurd statements, there's no point carrying on. Any of these Leicester players score 50 goals?
As for the Ballon D'or argument, it's well documented that it's biased towards Messi. Blatter even admitted as much in public.
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