Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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Ronaldo is more than capable of scoring an insane amount of goals against weak sides, he's a world class predator. Though what Messi does can't be matched, the way he can get his team into games and take defenders out of games isn't human like at times.

There's more to football than scoring, regardless of what some may think. The fact that Messi can wow so many people even in games where he doesn't score speaks itself - especially when he can match Ronaldo for productivity. This is no slight on Ronnie, incredible player, just unlucky he had to compete with a superior player in Messi
 
Ronaldo is more than capable of scoring an insane amount of goals against weak sides, he's a world class predator. Though what Messi does can't be matched, the way he can get his team into games and take defenders out of games isn't human like at times.

There's more to football than scoring, regardless of what some may think. The fact that Messi can wow so many people even in games where he doesn't score speaks itself - especially when he can match Ronaldo for productivity. This is no slight on Ronnie, incredible player, just unlucky he had to compete with a superior player in Messi
Seriously, this. How can there still be people be reasoning against this?
 
The problem is many people assuming that if Ronaldo doesn't score then he is invisible otherwise. Apart from the scoring he's actually a great player, as stats and eye tests will confirm.

Haven't watched him this season yet, but I don't think that was the case last season.

But overall, even when you concede that Ronaldo is about more than goals, it happens too often that he is not and even when he is, his overall game can't hold a candle to Messi's.
 
Ronaldo's game away from goal scoring isn't good enough on its own to put him up there with the best in the world, not even close.
 
Haven't watched him this season yet, but I don't think that was the case last season.

But overall, even when you concede that Ronaldo is about more than goals, it happens too often that he is not and even when he is, his overall game can't hold a candle to Messi's.

This debate has been going on for ages. It's a worn out cliche that all he does is poach.

He had 16 assists last season in La Liga alone. Not bad for someone totally uninvolved in general play.
 
Ronaldo is not just a poacher like some claim. Someone with his first touch, pace and strength isn't pointless in the buildup. But he's not truly special apart from his goalscoring either. To expect that also is nuts given it's not expected from any striker. How many brilliant goalscorers are exceptional in their general play? It's just that he's compared to Messi that this gets brought up who is also truly exceptional even in areas other than goalscoring. Messi can have a storming game without scoring, and tons of his performances are exception even without counting the goals, which is the difference really. It's always been the difference.
 
I don't think it's his biggest strength either, but he's more than capable of doing so.
There's no evidence to suggest he's anywhere near as good at it as Ronaldo is, which is the point I'm making.

Rooney is capable of scoring the occasional overhead kick, doesn't make him great at it.
 
How do you compare players anyhow? Admittedly, I don't watch every Barca game or every Madrid game, as most people here seem to do, but from the ones I have seen, there are more stellar players disregarding goals than both Ronaldo and Messi. Modric is the hub at Madrid, and everything more or less go through him (which makes it even more astonishing how completely shit he was against Norway for Croatia). At Barca, Iniesta has impressed me more in his overall play than Messi has, especially a couple of seasons ago. Obviously, Iniesta doesn't score as much, nor does Modric. Therefore, from what I can fathom, Ronaldo contributes just as much as Messi does, and loses the ball less than Messi does. Messi creates more and partakes in the build-up play a lot more. They are different players, having different roles in their teams, but both are equally vital to their team.
 
How do you compare players anyhow? Admittedly, I don't watch every Barca game or every Madrid game, as most people here seem to do, but from the ones I have seen, there are more stellar players disregarding goals than both Ronaldo and Messi. Modric is the hub at Madrid, and everything more or less go through him (which makes it even more astonishing how completely shit he was against Norway for Croatia). At Barca, Iniesta has impressed me more in his overall play than Messi has, especially a couple of seasons ago. Obviously, Iniesta doesn't score as much, nor does Modric. Therefore, from what I can fathom, Ronaldo contributes just as much as Messi does, and loses the ball less than Messi does. Messi creates more and partakes in the build-up play a lot more. They are different players, having different roles in their teams, but both are equally vital to their team.

If you think Iniesta contributes as much as Messi outside of goals then you haven't watched enough of Barcelona to have an opinion. Harsh but true.
 
How do you compare players anyhow? Admittedly, I don't watch every Barca game or every Madrid game, as most people here seem to do, but from the ones I have seen, there are more stellar players disregarding goals than both Ronaldo and Messi. Modric is the hub at Madrid, and everything more or less go through him (which makes it even more astonishing how completely shit he was against Norway for Croatia). At Barca, Iniesta has impressed me more in his overall play than Messi has, especially a couple of seasons ago. Obviously, Iniesta doesn't score as much, nor does Modric. Therefore, from what I can fathom, Ronaldo contributes just as much as Messi does, and loses the ball less than Messi does. Messi creates more and partakes in the build-up play a lot more. They are different players, having different roles in their teams, but both are equally vital to their team.

Because football is ultimately about scoring goals and winning games (main purpose of the game) and you can't just disregard goals from a player who consistently scored over 50 per season.
 
If you think Iniesta contributes as much as Messi outside of goals then you haven't watched enough of Barcelona to have an opinion. Harsh but true.

I think I did say I don't watch them a lot. However, I do recall there being discussions on who was better, Iniesta or Messi. At his best, Iniesta's allround play was immense. There were talks about him eclipsing Zidane. Messi contributes more than Ronaldo, for sure, but I think his overall contribution is exaggerated. He loses the ball a lot, running into dead channels and failing to dribble past the eighth man. His short passing is great though.
 
Because football is ultimately about scoring goals and winning games (main purpose of the game) and you can't just disregard goals from a player who consistently scored over 50 per season.

Which is why Ronaldo is more important than Modric, even though Modric impresses me every time (bar that one match) I watch him.
 
I think I did say I don't watch them a lot. However, I do recall there being discussions on who was better, Iniesta or Messi. At his best, Iniesta's allround play was immense. There were talks about him eclipsing Zidane. Messi contributes more than Ronaldo, for sure, but I think his overall contribution is exaggerated. He loses the ball a lot, running into dead channels and failing to dribble past the eighth man. His short passing is great though.


When Messi Plays, like in the match against manchester city in the nou camp, he eclipsed the likes of Neymar, Iniesta, Suarez, Aguero and Milner (?).I mean it's obvious you haven't seen iniesta and Messi play that much.
 
I think I did say I don't watch them a lot. However, I do recall there being discussions on who was better, Iniesta or Messi. At his best, Iniesta's allround play was immense. There were talks about him eclipsing Zidane. Messi contributes more than Ronaldo, for sure, but I think his overall contribution is exaggerated. He loses the ball a lot, running into dead channels and failing to dribble past the eighth man. His short passing is great though.

I'm not sure about this but I think there's been talks about this argentine prospect eclipsing Maradona and Pele....
 


"George Best, Diego Maradona, Johan Cruyff they're all getting outshined by this incredible little man"


"Es imposible parar a Messi. Hay pocos elegidos como él. Es una locura, no se puede hacer nada. No he visto nada igual. No es normal", afirmó el jóven futbolista.

"Cuando nos pusimos 2-3, faltaban 4 minutos y le podíamos meter miedo. Pero parece como cuando un niño en el recreo coge el balón y dice que no juega nadie, que se acabó. Lo ha cogido y ha dicho que no podíamos empatar. Hay que disfrutar de él y compañía. No se puede hacer nada", señaló Herrera, una de las promesas futbolísticas de Zaragoza.


"Es más bajito que yo, pero no se puede hacer nada. Va a 100 por hora, se frena en seco y arranca a 100 de nuevo. Todos te dicen en la semana que hace la misma jugada, pero no se lo puede agarrar"


"It's impossible to stop him. There just a few chosen ones like him. It's a madness, there's nothing you can do. I've never seen anything like that. It's not normal".

"When we got 2-3, there were 4 minutes left and we could scare them. But it is just like when a kid picks the ball in the school break and says the game is over. He took the ball and said we just coudln't tie it. We just have to enjoy him, there's nothing we can do.

"He is smaller than me, but there's nothing you can do. He goes 100 Km/H, just stops suddenly and goes 100 kmh again. During the week everyone says he makes the same play, but you just can't get him"


- Ander Herera
 
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Nice comments from Herrera on Leo, they've faced off many times and Ander has always given his best - nice to read these things from current professionals as it's not just the viewers at home & in the stands that feel this way
 
Nice comments from Herrera on Leo, they've faced off many times and Ander has always given his best - nice to read these things from current professionals as it's not just the viewers at home & in the stands that feel this way


You should check out the Messiquote twitter.
 
For those who get too fixated on this 'doing more than scoring' bit, following article is good counterpoint. I kind of remember sharing it before, but posting again as points which are brought about in discussion are same. Though not in these words and as articulately but this point in article has been made by quite a few that the comparison when talking about 'more than goals' is between two different types of players, in two totally different systems and in different roles and expectations. Ronaldo obviously can't be a playmaker, he is not built for that or supposed to that. The 'wow' things he used to do has been cut down but he has become more efficient. Some fans may prefer 'wow' factor more, but scoring 30-35 as wide forward with many wow moments is less efficient option than scoring 60+, waiting for right moment to pounce. At least from club point of view, they want him to give them those 60+ goals which take them very close to winning trophy.

The current football climate demands a Highlander. This complex can be attributed to the nature of sports itself: the competition. There can only be one. Friction between forces and the resolution of it is at the heart of everything we love about it.

Someone has to win and someone has to lose, and even in the instances where there is a draw, one has to have played better than the other, or one becomes the moral victor. Draws are frivolous and unreasonable concepts. Combine that with the dogma that things are either the best or the absolute worst and we're confronted with quite the issue when it comes to appreciating certain stars. The Ballon d'Or doesn't help either.

Cristiano Ronaldo is unlike anything we've ever seen before. Certainly unlike anything the current generation has ever witnessed. The issue is that he shares the stage with Lionel Messi, who is, well, unlike anything we've ever seen before either. Their careers and worlds have revolved around each other for almost a decade now - being at rival teams doesn't help the situation either- and they've seemingly become the Castor and Pollux of the football world. They can never exist simultaneously. Or so it seems.

The constant debate and bickering over who is the better player always follows the same strain. Messi is better because he is the footballer's footballer, the more complete player: he scores a ridiculous amount of goals, creates chances on the same asinine level and can buzzsaw through a defence with his slithering dribbling skills and close control. There's not much in the footballing sense that he can't do.

Ronaldo's supporters will point to his fantastic goalscoring rate, the ability to finish with both feet and his head and the danger he poses from distance. The belief is that goals win games, Ronaldo is a goalscorer, there's no sense for him to waste energy in the creation of chances when he doesn't need to. There's other outfield players for that role. His job is to score and he does it better than anyone else. It's the fantasy of a minimalist.

It's as if we're comparing the processes of a painter and a sculptor. Michelangelo taught that sculpting was nothing but carving out and discarding. To get rid of the unnecessary and find the masterpiece beneath. To rid the canvas of superfluous elements, the empty dribbles, the cute passes, the ever-changing roles and find the legendary wide-forward underneath. That's what Ronaldo has done. Gone are the days of the Portuguese dribbling through an array of defenders before a shot. That's inefficient. He could just bid his time and make the perfect run as any one of the better creators on the team dissects the defence. Then the goal.

Messi then is the painter. The process that's centred around adding on and building. Better colours, smoother blending, highlights, deeper brush strokes, it goes on. Every year, it seems that Messi adds another weapon to his arsenal. From the long-haired, quicksilver, electric winger who scored the goal of the century against an undeserving Getafe side by dribbling past almost the entire team to the false nine of the Pep Guardiola era whose intelligence made him impossible to mark.

Even his current form, the right forward playmaker who is also a part-time centre-midfielder is just as wonderful. He's in constant flux, but controlled. And always adding more ways to disturb the defence: he's La Liga's and Barcelona's top goalscorer, he also has the most assists for both. He has the most dribbles in the Champions League, is battling for the all-time goalscorer award for the competition as well as the assists record. It's unfathomable. He's the perfect attacking player because he can do everything.

These two are just two different paths to the same goal. The team that gets the ball in the back of the net more wins the game. Each player has found ways that suit them and their teams in order to make that possible. One is not more beautiful than the other; it’s in the eye of the beholder. Both though, are fine art and deserve praise for the way that they've transcended our normal definitions of a world class footballer.

The argument of who is better comes down to bias or mere preference. The award wins fluctuate too much at this point. It's just, who do you like more? Which process do you prefer? The affinity for either does not make them the best, it just means that we're beyond reasonable arguments to determine the hierarchy. Either you're keener on Michelangelo's David or Leonardo Da Vinci's ‘the Last Supper’. Or you can just stop the struggle and appreciate them both.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/p...ore-different-than-ever-before-094726637.html
 
How does Real Madrid benefit from Ronaldo's insane efficiency if they won only 1 title in the last 6 years, 1 CL (not criticising them on that though), 1 Copa while Barca since Ronaldo's move to Real Madrid won 2 Copa's, 2 CL's and 4 fecking titles. It's Ronaldo who benefits from Real Madrid's service that makes him maintain a 1-goal-per-game ratio. I genuinely don't understand how someone can think Ronaldo is equal to Messi, just look at the highlights from both players since Ronaldo's transfer to Real and Messi seriously outshines Ronaldo IMO.
 
They both don't provide different means to the same eventual goal.

For me, the difference between them lies in that one contributes more on the pitch than the other. Messi is a a playmaker, incredible passer and phenomenal goalscorer all bundled into one. That contributes more to his side than a phenomenal goalscorer can. It also makes him harder to shut down. That's why you see more spectacular performances from him in the big matches (overall performances) like the one against Bayern or numerous others. That's why even other than the 50-60 goals he has performances like the ones against City where he's quite comfortably the best and most influential player on the pitch. One minute he'll split the opposition defence in half with the perfect pass, the other he'll score and at other times he'll help control the midfield.

They're both wonderful players that have extraordinary consistency but Messi is a cut above IMO.
 
They both don't provide different means to the same eventual goal.

For me, the difference between them lies in that one contributes more on the pitch than the other. Messi is a a playmaker, incredible passer and phenomenal goalscorer all bundled into one. That contributes more to his side than a phenomenal goalscorer can. It also makes him harder to shut down. That's why you see more spectacular performances from him in the big matches (overall performances) like the one against Bayern or numerous others. That's why even other than the 50-60 goals he has performances like the ones against City where he's quite comfortably the best and most influential player on the pitch. One minute he'll split the opposition defence in half with the perfect pass, the other he'll score and at other times he'll help control the midfield.

They're both wonderful players that have extraordinary consistency but Messi is a cut above IMO.
Seriously, how hard is it to see this? I totally agree. One can prefer Ronaldo as a player, sure, but when you look as objectively as you can at both players, it really shouldn't be a debate...
 
How does Real Madrid benefit from Ronaldo's insane efficiency if they won only 1 title in the last 6 years, 1 CL (not criticising them on that though), 1 Copa while Barca since Ronaldo's move to Real Madrid won 2 Copa's, 2 CL's and 4 fecking titles. It's Ronaldo who benefits from Real Madrid's service that makes him maintain a 1-goal-per-game ratio. I genuinely don't understand how someone can think Ronaldo is equal to Messi, just look at the highlights from both players since Ronaldo's transfer to Real and Messi seriously outshines Ronaldo IMO.

That is the question you should ask club for their constant sackings, lack of balance in key positions and sometimes comical defense for a team which relies on counter attack more. I don't know what to say if you think a player who has taken efficiency to a new level, scoring more than 60+ a season is not efficient enough and is to blame for not winning more trophies. If not for his goals, they won't have won or got as much close as they did otherwise. More dribbles, more fancy stuff and 30-35 goals would have had Real Madrid in worse position, that much should be obvious. And no, if he would have laid chances to others more through that dribbling, I don't expect anyone including Benzema, Higuain etc to have converted them with same efficiency. So, all in all, what Ronaldo has contributed, he has done much more than his part to the team. If Real don't win, it is because there is no proper strategy to build long term. They just want to rely on individual superior qualities of stars to take them through and that's very difficult when their opposition is one of the best teams in history.
 
When Messi decides he is slowing down he'll just turn into Ronaldo and concentrate on his scoring just like Ronaldo. If his team can provide quality service he might break his own goalscoring records he set in previous season.
 
there's really no contest anymore. to even have this debate, you'd have to exclude their overall play, number of assists, trophies and personal awards because it all goes in Messi's favour. and even if you put it down to goals only, you're still left with fact that since he joined Madrid, Ronaldo outscored Messi only in his last two seasons.
 
When Messi decides he is slowing down he'll just turn into Ronaldo and concentrate on his scoring just like Ronaldo. If his team can provide quality service he might break his own goalscoring records he set in previous season.

Could be possible that Messi takes the opposite approach as well, though: becoming more of a creative outlet who's perhaps lost some of his key attributes, but is still incredibly proficient with the ball at his feet.

I don't think he'll manage to beat his own best season scoring record: his 70+ goal season was just utterly mind-boggling and incredible.
 
Well, Ronaldo with a hat trick today, what will Messi treat us to? :drool:

Same over the top of defence balls across to Neymar and Alba, cutting inside defenders and possibly another couple of nutmegs, a few more throughballs and usual dribbles. Then if lucky some amazing goal or an assist. It's a routine now, yet defences haven't been able to do much about it.
 
Could be possible that Messi takes the opposite approach as well, though: becoming more of a creative outlet who's perhaps lost some of his key attributes, but is still incredibly proficient with the ball at his feet.

I don't think he'll manage to beat his own best season scoring record: his 70+ goal season was just utterly mind-boggling and incredible.

It is possible, many are assuming that he'll play deeper in few years, but tbf this was just (partly) a dig at Ronaldo to downplay his quality in comparision to Messi because it's Messi v Ronaldo thread after all and you know how sensitive Ronaldo's girlfriends here are.
 
How does Real Madrid benefit from Ronaldo's insane efficiency if they won only 1 title in the last 6 years, 1 CL (not criticising them on that though), 1 Copa while Barca since Ronaldo's move to Real Madrid won 2 Copa's, 2 CL's and 4 fecking titles. It's Ronaldo who benefits from Real Madrid's service that makes him maintain a 1-goal-per-game ratio. I genuinely don't understand how someone can think Ronaldo is equal to Messi, just look at the highlights from both players since Ronaldo's transfer to Real and Messi seriously outshines Ronaldo IMO.
So Messi doesn't benefit from Barca's service? But I would say if Messi can duplicate in another league (PL?) then I would say he's better than Maradona, until then...
 
there's really no contest anymore. to even have this debate, you'd have to exclude their overall play, number of assists, trophies and personal awards because it all goes in Messi's favour. and even if you put it down to goals only, you're still left with fact that since he joined Madrid, Ronaldo outscored Messi only in his last two seasons.
Trophies are won by a team not a player and Barca always had/have a better team.
You are wrong.
1) 10/11
2) 13/14
3) 14/15
 
When Messi decides he is slowing down he'll just turn into Ronaldo and concentrate on his scoring just like Ronaldo. If his team can provide quality service he might break his own goalscoring records he set in previous season.
What? He'll surely become a complete playmaker than a complete striker. He's already doing most of the playmaking in the team that won the league and CL last season. FWIW I don't think he will ever decline to a level where he has to give up his goalscoring massively.
 
They're both wonderful players that have extraordinary consistency but Messi is a cut above IMO.

I hate this thread, but I'll chip in with this: Yes, you're quite right.

Historically speaking, Messi has to be compared to Pelé, another player who scored an insane amount of goals (for various reasons, under various circumstances), but who also was an unquestionable world beater in other facets of his game.

Ronaldo lacks the orchestrator bit.

What Messi arguably lacks, on his part, is the same ability (compared to Pelé - and a certain other short-arse Argentinian) to bring others into play, to make them - effectively - better through his own choices and movements on the pitch. He's easily among the best in the business as a playmaker today (unlike Ronaldo, who doesn't compare at all in that regard), but on a historical scale he isn't that special. His niche, as it were, still remains the combination of pretty much perfect technique, excellent (but not unprecedented or even historically great) playmaking abiliy AND his insane goal scoring prowess.
 
So Messi doesn't benefit from Barca's service? But I would say if Messi can duplicate in another league (PL?) then I would say he's better than Maradona, until then...
How many times does Messi have to kill an English club in order to get rid of that ridicilous requirement to perform in the PL? He'd do it just as easily in the PL as he does in La Liga. In fact, if Ronaldo is better because of his PL experience then why isn't he outperforming Messi consistently in La Liga?
 
How many times does Messi have to kill an English club in order to get rid of that ridicilous requirement to perform in the PL? He'd do it just as easily in the PL as he does in La Liga. In fact, if Ronaldo is better because of his PL experience then why isn't he outperforming Messi consistently in La Liga?
Playing in the CL against and English team is not the same if he plays in that league, you see the refs would be English and he would be playing against Stokes and Co. Anyway we don't know and he could be a great player there as well.
 
Playing in the CL against and English team is not the same if he plays in that league, you see the refs would be English and he would be playing against Stokes and Co. Anyway we don't know and he could be a great player there as well.

The amount of space he'll get in the PL will make it so much easier for him. Plus refereeing in Spain is probably even worse than in England.
 
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