You mean the WC final where he disappeared after the first 5 minutes?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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You mean the WC final where he disappeared after the first 5 minutes?
I believe the original point you were making was he couldn't carry Argentina, which isn't really true with the evidence that's there.
And when you're discussing the merits of these two players, it matters alright, you can't gloss over your man leading his team to some crap results against crap opposition and gloss over it because he finally turned up in the play off.
Still deep down of the belief that Ronaldo > Messi I see. Hmmm.
Overall, yes, but Real's capitulation this season means the Ballon D'Or has already gone to Messi the moment Juve won the CL semi.
Deservedly so though, wouldn't you say? Messi has been back to his best, debatably even better since the turn of the year, & in that form, no one really comes close IMO.
In Argentina you always have to be first . At least second.
When we qualified to 2010 WC you think we were happy or something?
Anyway, Messi has carried the team during the whole Sabella era.
Which was when most of the "pointless" football was played.
Ronaldo was on fire when there were no trophies to win. Messi was firing when there were chances to win things.You've completely lost me there...
I think thats the point.
I said Messi deserves the Ballon D'or this year based on the first 5/6 months of 2015, which is when most of the trophies are won. @kouroux , do please elaborate...
We're not only comparing Portugal's achievements to Argentina, but also (more importantly) to Russia (who topped the group in the qualifications forcing Portugal to play the playoffs) and the USA (who eliminated them from the world cup).
Also, what do you mean by carry a team then? Which player is capable of doing that (better than Messi)?
Aguero is capable to carry City (till some point)
So you think He's doing more for City than Messi (or even Ronaldo) could?
Than Messi no way.
Than Ronaldo yeah. Ronaldo can't carry a team, I said it before. To carry a team you can't rely on service as he does.
The United Ronaldo could easily carry a team. To carry a team doesn't mean to score goals. It means to generate danger out of nowhere.
Yeah but I was asking the question to people who say Messi can't carry a team. Who can then using the same standards?
Why is this even being discussed anymore, you just have to watch Messi play to see he's superior.
Suarez carried Liverpool 2013 / 14 better than Messi did Argentina, doesn't mean he is a better or worse player, I don't think you can use carrying a team as a determinate of that.
And on the debate there really is no answer, football is a team sport therefore debating individuals is pointless, a player can only do so much on his own, the team he is part of will impact his effectiveness.
And on the debate there really is no answer, football is a team sport therefore debating individuals is pointless, a player can only do so much on his own, the team he is part of will impact his effectiveness.
"Ronaldo can't carry a team" LOL
I'm pretty sure this is the same guy who has scored over 50 goals for the last 5 seasons and probably made close to 100 assists in that same time. If that isn't carrying then I don't know what is.
Edit- I'm pretty sure he "Carried" his Portugal team to the world cup against Sweden not long ago, so there's 1 example.
I'm pretty sure this is the same guy who has scored over 50 goals for the last 5 seasons and probably made close to 100 assists in that same time. If that isn't carrying then I don't know what is.
Edit- I'm pretty sure he "Carried" his Portugal team to the world cup against Sweden not long ago, so there's 1 example.
I carried a team with my friends once or twice too.
It was so easy to see someone talking about goals...goals don't make you the one who carries the team. In Real Madrid it's Modric and James and it's quite obvious.
Last Season was Di Maria
It was so easy to see someone talking about goals...goals don't make you the one who carries the team. In Real Madrid it's Modric and James and it's quite obvious.
Last Season was Di Maria
Did he feck. Didn't show up at all in the qualifiers. Fantastic against Sweden but not before that. Even Postiga did as much.
Saurez was pretty good at Liverpool, but I don't think many players can do that for a side. Like Keane carried us more than giggs, Scholes, etc. It's not just about who the better player is. And what I mean by carrying is what lebron did with the cavaliers, that is a level very few player reach.
Both Messi and Ronaldo are poorer for the national sides, Messi plays for Argentina and is a better player so Argentina more often than not achieve their expected results compared to Ronaldo who is more service dependent and plays for a lesser side.
Well I was kinda talking about the games vs Sweden.
I don't understand how everyone keeps repeating that "Messi is bad with Argentina thing"'
That's simply not true.
By his standards. If you had only seen Messi for Argentina, you wouldn't consider him amongst the GOATs. Compared to other players he has done Okay, or just as well. Compared to the barca Messi or Madrid Ronaldo he has been poor.
It's not a discussion any more, 99% of people will agree that Messi is the superior player of the two.
It's just Cal arguing against everyone else, but fair farq to him - he sticks to his guns.
Again dude, watch the following games
Ecuador, Paraguay both home and away, Uruguay, Chile, the famous Brazil friendly, WC group stage....
Since sabella was put in charge, Messi played at top, top level.
I've watched the Ecuador game live at river plate stadium and it's for sure one of the best games in his entire career. You can compare to Messi at Barcelona (even being a nonsense and something you can't expect) but to Ronaldo? Come on.
Ten more goals and he'll reach Batistuta
The feck did Ronaldo on his own. Moutinho absolutely bossed the midfield for Portugal and shat all over the Swedish team, playing countless brilliant through-balls for Ronaldo. Moutinho's performances for Portugal are so underrated. Pretty much everytime Portugal plays well, Moutinho stands out and more often than not is their best player. He was Portugal's best player in their run to the semifinal at the Euro 2012 as well, had a great performance against Spain and was crucial in the quarterfinal win against the Czech Republic including giving the game winning assist.
Maybe @Arruda or @Sly or one of the other Portuguese posters on the Caf can add something to the whole 'Ronaldo does it on his own for Portugal' nonsense.
Sly already refuted that claim in the ronaldo thread from one of the ronaldo fans if I'm not mistaken.
But...but....Balu....only goals wins games. Hadn't you heard?
Agree completely with your post.
Eww tagging me in Messi vs Ronaldo threads I usually don´t waste my time with this nonsense but like i´ve said a million times, Portugal isn´t a one man team. You can´t achieve what we have achieved with only relying on Ronaldo. Real one man team´s (for example Sweden) prove that. Obviously Ronaldo is our most important player but Moutinho isn´t far behind. His influence in our national team is obvious. Pepe (bar his Germany game brain fart) has been amazing in his Portugal career. In fact i´d rate him as highly as Moutinho in terms of performance with Portugal. Moutinho wins because of his superior disciplinary and injury record. He rarely misses a game. Coentrão is also excellent for us. He has been our best left back in the last 30 years. It´s a pity he´s often injured. It has cost us because we have no real alternatives and Coentrão´s is influencial for our national team. Thankfully Raphael Guerreiro is coming up and looks like a very interesting left back option for us in the future. We have managed to prevent France from doing a Robert Pires to us with him. Nani (yes him) even if sometimes his club form was lacking, when he played for Portugal he was very good most of the times. I can remember very well how desperate Queiroz and our media was when he missed the 2010 WC due to injury.
We are a small nation but we have always had an interesting pool of players. If you look in the last two to three decades (and even in Eusébio´s days), we were never a one man team. Like other teams, we have our main players but besides the striker position, they have always had a strong supporting cast. We are obviously an inferior team without Ronaldo (not talking about Ballon D´Or because i don´t care about that but he has been scoring 50+ goals for god knows how long), he is our all time top scorer in our national team but we are far from being an one team. It´s just people who are ignorant and don´t know our reality who often claim that. Often misguided by lazy journalism or simply lack of portuguese football knowledge.
I usually don´t waste my time with this nonsense but like i´ve said a million times, Portugal isn´t a one man team. You can´t achieve what we have achieved with only relying on Ronaldo. Real one man team´s (for example Sweden) prove that. Obviously Ronaldo is our most important player but Moutinho isn´t far behind. His influence in our national team is obvious. Pepe (bar his Germany game brain fart) has been amazing in his Portugal career. In fact i´d rate him as highly as Moutinho in terms of performance with Portugal. Moutinho wins because of his superior disciplinary and injury record. He rarely misses a game. Coentrão is also excellent for us. He has been our best left back in the last 30 years. It´s a pity he´s often injured. It has cost us because we have no real alternatives and Coentrão´s is influencial for our national team. Thankfully Raphael Guerreiro is coming up and looks like a very interesting left back option for us in the future. We have managed to prevent France from doing a Robert Pires to us with him. Nani (yes him) even if sometimes his club form was lacking, when he played for Portugal he was very good most of the times. I can remember very well how desperate Queiroz and our media was when he missed the 2010 WC due to injury.We are a small nation but we have always had an interesting pool of players. If you look in the last two to three decades (and even in Eusébio´s days), we were never a one man team. Like other teams, we have our main players but besides the striker position, they have always had a strong supporting cast. We are obviously an inferior team without Ronaldo (not talking about Ballon D´Or because i don´t care about that but he has been scoring 50+ goals for god knows how long), he is our all time top scorer in our national team but we are far from being an one team. It´s just people who are ignorant and don´t know our reality who often claim that. Often misguided by lazy journalism or simply lack of portuguese football knowledge.
Sorry, I actually happened to end in here by accident myself and couldn't resist posting. Won't happen again, promisedEww tagging me in Messi vs Ronaldo threads
.Sorry, I actually happened to end in here by accident myself and couldn't resist posting. Won't happen again, promised
Heh no worries mate. This discussion about Portugal being a one man team happens as often as the Ronaldo vs Messi discussion. I guess it´s a pointless effort to try to prove otherwise but i guess i´m in a good mood after having a very good holiday, so i gave it another go. Of course i´ll never change Cal´s opinion but who knows maybe it will elucidate other people when reading this.
Basically sums up everything that people who prefer Ronnie would say. Headers and goals
Even the two arguing ronaldos case think he's not that far behind rather than him being better.
And he runs really fast of course....albeit without the ballBasically sums up everything that people who prefer Ronnie would say. Headers and goals
Genuine question, is Ronaldo even that fast anymore (over longer distances). I rarely see him making Bale or last seasin di Maria rund anymore. When he's making short runs to get in a goalscoring position he's fast, but he doesnt really look fast on the ball anymore.
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