Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Cal? said:
Ronaldo put the cross at exactly the right place for him to inexplicably head it over...

Considering Messi manages that side, that's probably true, but do you honestly think Suarez or Neymar are better? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I think Neymar is a better winger than Ronaldo is right now (running at players), but I think anyone would replace Suarez with Ronaldo in a heartbeat if they could.

Ronaldo is comfortably #2 but Messi is also comfortably #1

I think there'll be a huge inquest now at Real Madrid, unless something goes disastrously wrong in La Liga, Real Madrid haven't won anything this year which isn't good enough for a club that big.
 
Cal? said:
Ronaldo put the cross at exactly the right place for him to inexplicably head it over...

Considering Messi manages that side, that's probably true, but do you honestly think Suarez or Neymar are better? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Ouch. Knives are out. :lol:

Aye, it's all about balance, and currently at Barca, that front trio is literally playing in perfect harmony. That's what is setting them apart this season IMO. They're actually delighted when the other scores etc.
 
Cal? said:
If that were true, those OPTA dribbling stats wouldn't be so low for most players.
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They likely only count a dribble as actually beating an opponent, I'd imagine. But there's so much more to dribbling than just taking on a player.
 
Since we talking about heading ability, Messi won 9/16 aerial duels in CL. Ronaldo won 15/36. Messi actually has a much better record compared to the height he pocesses. I actually though his numbers would be pretty bad. He actually won like 50% of CR's numbers in heading, not bad at all.

In terms of dribbling, Messi had 82 successful dribbles compared to Ronaldo's 25. Now consider the fact that he hardly attempted anything in last match vs Bayern (whereas he averaged around 10 per match before that).
 
B20 said:
Strong contender for worst post of the year here.

Next up, Carroll > Ronaldinho.
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this is the exact sort of post that shouldn't be in here. Cal? is entitled to his opinion, if you disagree then argue the point, don't respond with shit like this. The thread is already a complete trainwreck without letting this crap into it too.
 
Cina said:
this is the exact sort of post that shouldn't be in here. Cal? is entitled to his opinion, if you disagree then argue the point, don't respond with shit like this. The thread is already a complete trainwreck without letting this crap into it too.
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I don't undertstand. There's no point on what Cal? is saying. How can you argue to that?. Sometimes I think he has to be laughing while tipping.
 
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Cina said:
this is the exact sort of post that shouldn't be in here. Cal? is entitled to his opinion, if you disagree then argue the point, don't respond with shit like this. The thread is already a complete trainwreck without letting this crap into it too.
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I don't understand. You think posters trainwrecking threads with absolute undefendable trollsense should be met with dignified and intellectual responses? Down that path lies only the feeding of trolls.

The caf is going to the dogs if this is where we're heading.
 
B20 said:
I don't understand. You think posters trainwrecking threads with absolute undefendable trollsense should be met with dignified and intellectual responses? Down that path lies only the feeding of trolls.

The caf is going to the dogs if this is where we're heading.
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I think this is the Messi v Ronaldo thread so people can post whatever the feck they want as long as it's on topic and not derogatory towards others. This thread was created purely to keep all this shite that goes on here away from the rest of the Caf and it's serving its purpose pretty well.
 
Ronaldo at his best was a great player to watch, he got it all... great skills, drive, athletics and plenty of goals (even scored many goals out of nowhere) I would even think he is almost nearly as good as Messi, maybe just a tier or half below.
But Ronaldo these days is simply no match to Messi (even his usual strongest area like skills, drive and athletics seems deteriorating) except for the end products which isn't easy at all and fair play to him for keeping up those insane numbers.
 
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B20 said:
I don't understand. You think posters trainwrecking threads with absolute undefendable trollsense should be met with dignified and intellectual responses? Down that path lies only the feeding of trolls.

The caf is going to the dogs if this is where we're heading.
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You're making it sound like feeding the troll and mocking the troll are the only two options when there's a very obvious third.
 
Brwned said:
You're making it sound like feeding the troll and mocking the troll are the only two options when there's a very obvious third.
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Maybe. I guess my main objection here is that if the caf mod team thinks posts like "strong contender for worst post of the year" is somehow too derogatory and bad tone, then it really has become a sterile place.
 
I'm firmly on the Messi side but this video shows Ronaldo could have been more than he is now. He showed this in the 2 years 2006 and 2007 and in the 2009-10 season at Madrid, where he combined great overall play and good numbers. But still not Messi, who plays well above Ronaldo's top level and produces as much as Ronaldo's top level.

 
B20 said:
Maybe. I guess my main objection here is that if the caf mod team thinks posts like "strong contender for worst post of the year" is somehow too derogatory and bad tone, then it really has become a sterile place.
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Well it has become sterile and has been progressively going in that direction for almost 10 years now...with the growth in numbers and the restrictions placed upon the forum by Google this change in atmosphere and attitudes was practically unavoidable.

I don't think it had anything to do with your post being derogatory though. It's just that people replying to someone like Cal? with a post which doesn't actually provide any discussion point and is intended only to ridicule just makes this thread even messier than it needs to be. It adds nothing and achieves nothing.

That said I think the thread was a lost cause from the beginning and having it as somewhere to house all of that kind of crap makes a lot of sense so I don't see it as a big deal.
 
BobbyManc said:
They likely only count a dribble as actually beating an opponent, I'd imagine. But there's so much more to dribbling than just taking on a player.
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Yep. OPTA measures dribbling as 'take on' i.e player attempting to beat a player and that's you get 'successful dribbles'

Ronaldo's attempts at dribbling these days are almost a caricature - ridiculous stepovers while standing still (there used to be a famous GIF back in the day)
 
berbatrick said:
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Yeah, my favorite "Ronaldo" period :drool:

If he'd continued developing "that side" of his game, he'd arguably have been rated closer to Messi. It's a shame he sacrificed it to instead, put up insane goalscoring numbers.

Maybe he realised that playing at that physical level (dribbling, getting fouled/kicked often etc) would lead to earlier physical decline? Either way, one can't argue with him being one of the greatest goalscorers ever, but his overall influence over matches is almost non existent.
 
berbatrick said:
I'm firmly on the Messi side but this video shows Ronaldo could have been more than he is now. He showed this in the 2 years 2006 and 2007 and in the 2009-10 season at Madrid, where he combined great overall play and good numbers. But still not Messi, who plays well above Ronaldo's top level and produces as much as Ronaldo's top level.

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If we also look at allot of ronaldo's goals even for united between his best years of 2006/07 season, and the 2007/08 season, they are not quiet has devastating has some of messi's finest goals that are freak goals. With ronaldo, there was quiet a few tap ins, free kicks, penalty's and headers, allot of variety yes, but messi could do more in terms of the ability to literally score fifa like goals, it was and still is freakish like we have never seen this since a George Best could do this. Messi time and time again not only did he take on players, he could dribble past 4 or 5 players, and score goals that are at times not possible from 90% of players. I find messi the greater game changer and harder to mark, despite how great ronaldo has been throughout the years, he does go missing and can be marked out. If we look at ronaldo's 2 champions league wins, he had one fantastic half against Chelsea in moscow of 2008 where he scored the goal, he did not do much in the second half and extra time, and he missed the penalty, and against atletico his influence was not great and scored the final penalty when Madrid were 3-1 ahead. Messi was a massive influence ripping united apart in both finals, and there was no game plan in how to mark him, and that dribbling ability messi was causing was something truly special from the Argentine that ronaldo could never master like messi did. When ronaldo faced us in both legs, he was not great against us, ronaldo was just in the right place at the right time RVN style, nothing genius in how he scored against us in both legs in 2013
 
Brwned said:
Well it has become sterile and has been progressively going in that direction for almost 10 years now...with the growth in numbers and the restrictions placed upon the forum by Google this change in atmosphere and attitudes was practically unavoidable.

I don't think it had anything to do with your post being derogatory though. It's just that people replying to someone like Cal? with a post which doesn't actually provide any discussion point and is intended only to ridicule just makes this thread even messier than it needs to be. It adds nothing and achieves nothing.
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I happen to think it does add something, albeit in the somewhat infantile manner which the caf has traditionally endorsed. It's actually quite funny that he can wrench such a failed argument from his mind. It deserves highlighting to the public for the entertainment value. Maybe even an honourable mention at the annual caf awards.

You know, the stuff we do all the time. Like you and Boss not so long ago as well.
 
BobbyManc said:
They likely only count a dribble as actually beating an opponent, I'd imagine. But there's so much more to dribbling than just taking on a player.
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If you're going to count kicking the ball and rushing after it as dribbling, I'll revise Ronaldo's dribbling to 8/10.
 
Cal? said:
Next up Denilson > Drogba according to some of you...
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Compare the best dribblers in history and see how they compare to the best headers of the ball in history. Or simply look at the best players in history and look how much their dribbling skills defined them compared to how their heading skills defined them.

It's a non argument.
 
B20 said:
Compare the best dribblers in history and see how they compare to the best headers of the ball in history. Or simply look at the best players in history and look how much their dribbling skills defined them compared to how their heading skills defined them.

It's a non argument.
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The greatest players in history tend to be good at dribbling doesn't mean they're considered great players only because they're great dribblers.

There has been plenty of great dribblers who are considered poor players.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Name a few of them.
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i dont agree with cal? on practically everything he said in this thread but he is right with this one, just because someone is good at dribbling doesnt mean he is a good player.
 
Denilson, good dribbler, shit player.

Least he won the world cup though. :drool:
 
B20 said:
Compare the best dribblers in history and see how they compare to the best headers of the ball in history. Or simply look at the best players in history and look how much their dribbling skills defined them compared to how their heading skills defined them.

It's a non argument.
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Indeed. You can learn to be very good in the air but dribbling really well is a talent.

Lay said:
Denilson, good dribbler, shit player.

Least he won the world cup though. :drool:
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I wouldn't call him a good dribbler. More like a one trick pony.
 
Lay said:
Denilson, good dribbler, shit player.

Least he won the world cup though. :drool:
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to be fair, Denilson was also a good player for a short period of time....eventually he turned into a shit one :(
 
Šjor Bepo said:
i dont agree with cal? on practically everything he said in this thread but he is right with this one, just because someone is good at dribbling doesnt mean he is a good player.
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You don't need to be good at dribbling to be a great player but all of the players who have been really exceptional at dribbling the ball would be up there with the best around. And I'm not talking about someone who happens to have a few tricks. We're talking players who can consistently dribble past defenders, time and time again. That's a rare and very valuable skill.
 
Cal? said:
The greatest players in history tend to be good at dribbling doesn't mean they're considered great players only because they're great dribblers.

There has been plenty of great dribblers who are considered poor players.
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That is a bad strawman though. There are also none who ever made it to professional level by only ever knowing how to head the ball. I haven't posited any sort of 'dribbling is all you need to be good' argument.

Dribbling at the highest level is a seminal part of the skillset that defines the very best players. Heading the ball is not.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You don't need to be good at dribbling to be a great player but all of the players who have been really exceptional at dribbling the ball would be up there with the best around. And I'm not talking about someone who happens to have a few tricks. We're talking players who can consistently dribble past defenders, time and time again. That's a rare and very valuable skill.
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like i said, i dont agree with cal? and i agree with you that you dont need to be a good dribbler to be a great player as well as dribbling is a rare and valuable skill but my point is that dribbling alone is not enough to be up there with the best.

Robinho/Denilson consistently dribbled past their opponents but that didnt make them great players, they were both good at some point of their career but not great. Then you have the players who are also good dribblers but not so dominant like Denilson/Robinho, lets say Ryan Babel and Adel Taarabt, they are both very good dribblers but they are not good players.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You don't need to be good at dribbling to be a great player but all of the players who have been really exceptional at dribbling the ball would be up there with the best around. And I'm not talking about someone who happens to have a few tricks. We're talking players who can consistently dribble past defenders, time and time again. That's a rare and very valuable skill.
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And a skill that significantly amplifies strong passing and shooting. A great passer and finisher who is also a great dribbler is generally a much greater threat than a great passer and finisher who happens to also be a great header of the ball, as they can do their damage in different areas of the pitch, usually far more dangerous areas, with less reliance on service.

Heading doesn't really do anything to amplify those skills. It just means you can get on the end of other people's delivery.
 
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Šjor Bepo said:
like i said, i dont agree with cal? and i agree with you that you dont need to be a good dribbler to be a great player as well as dribbling is a rare and valuable skill but my point is that dribbling alone is not enough to be up there with the best.
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Congratulations. You win an argument no one has posited.
 
Dribbling is just about the best attribute a player can have. It's what allows players to open up tight games and stubborn defences, to take opposition defenders out of the game and increase your attacking advantage.

It's just being downplayed by some people because Ronaldo isn't very good at it.
 
B20 said:
Congratulations. You win an argument no one has posited.
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Pogue Mahone said:
You don't need to be good at dribbling to be a great player but all of the players who have been really exceptional at dribbling the ball would be up there with the best around. And I'm not talking about someone who happens to have a few tricks. We're talking players who can consistently dribble past defenders, time and time again. That's a rare and very valuable skill.
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.....
 
Šjor Bepo said:
like i said, i dont agree with cal? and i agree with you that you dont need to be a good dribbler to be a great player as well as dribbling is a rare and valuable skill but my point is that dribbling alone is not enough to be up there with the best.

Robinho/Denilson consistently dribbled past their opponents but that didnt make them great players, they were both good at some point of their career but not great. Then you have the players who are also good dribblers but not so dominant like Denilson/Robinho, lets say Ryan Babel and Adel Taarabt, they are both very good dribblers but they are not good players.
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There's going to be exceptions to every rule. The point remains that being brilliant at dribbling is something that is much more likely to be associated with an all-round brilliant footballer than, say, being good in the air or having a powerful shot. There would be a much longer list of average players that tick those last two boxes than there would be of great dribblers who weren't great players.
 
Cal? said:
The greatest players in history tend to be good at dribbling doesn't mean they're considered great players only because they're great dribblers.

There has been plenty of great dribblers who are considered poor players.
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Struggling to think of many poor players who are genuinely great dribblers. Most of them think they're great dribblers, but are pretty clumsy.
Examples being Taarabt, Townsend, and Zaha.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The point remains that being brilliant at dribbling is something that is much more likely to be associated with an all-round brilliant footballer than, say, being good in the air or having a powerful shot. There would be a much longer list of average players that tick those last two boxes than there would be of great dribblers who weren't great players.
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i agree with that, cal?'s try to equalize skills of heading the ball and dribbling is laughable....
 
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