Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Peyroteo said:
Looking back at it, the stupidest decision of Ronaldo's career was leaving United to a Madrid team that was much worse at the time right after Barca had won the treble. He left the Premier League to La Liga right as La Liga was passing the Premier League as the best league in the world :wenger:

Wasted 2/3 years trying to dethrone the best team ever with a team that simply wasn't on the same level, his trophy case would look so much better if he had avoided Pep's Barca and had stayed at United for 3/4 years more. During his 9 years in Madrid, Barca only finished under 90 points once and that's when they finished with 87 points. It was awful timing.
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He had some pretty good damn team mates and good managers as well at Real Madrid. But yeah if he had stayed at United we probably would have walked the league every year.
 
DVG7 said:
How do you think he would have faired if he’d gone to Barca from an individual standpoint?
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In 2009? Prime Messi with prime Ronaldo in front of the best midfield ever is so insane I can't even imagine how it would go. Good thing it didn't happen for the sake of the sport :lol:

It's criminal that we're going to let this generation pass without these two playing for the same team in a random friendly match by the way.
 
Peyroteo said:
In 2009? Prime Messi with prime Ronaldo in front of the best midfield ever is so insane I can't even imagine how it would go. Good thing it didn't happen for the sake of the sport :lol:

It's criminal that we're going to let this generation pass without these two playing for the same team in a random friendly match by the way.
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ive always wondered how the assist/goals tally would have changed. Not hard to imagine Ronaldo getting over 100 goals in a calendar year with false 9 messi
 
GifLord said:
He scored close to 40 pens more than Messi. I mean 1/5 of his goals are pens compared to Messi's 1/7
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That’s because his conversion from the spot is better. He hasn’t taken that many more than Messi.
 
GifLord said:
Messi
Total penalties missed - 26
TOTAL - 115

Ronaldo
Total penalties missed - 22
TOTAL - 143
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Messi’s 2 years younger and I’m pretty sure he started taking them later in his career so taking 28 more penalties across 1000 games of football doesn’t seem much at all actually. I thought the Penaldo thing was just a meme after 2016 :lol:

Anyways, if penalty goals get excluded from stats or get less credit, by the same principle shouldn’t assists from corners or lateral freekicks be the same? And shouldn’t the players that win the penalties either get assists for it or a lot more credit than they get?

I’ve never seen a stat about which players win more penalties. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ronaldo won a bunch more penalties than Messi across his career given he’s a lot more prone to falling in the box.
 
DVG7 said:
How do you think he would have faired if he’d gone to Barca from an individual standpoint?
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Would have been the wrong style, imo. I think he was better off being a) the unquestionable main man and b) in more direct setups.
 
Peyroteo said:
Messi’s 2 years younger and I’m pretty sure he started taking them later in his career so taking 28 more penalties across 1000 games of football doesn’t seem much at all actually. I thought the Penaldo thing was just a meme after 2016 :lol:

Anyways, if penalty goals get excluded from stats or get less credit, by the same principle shouldn’t assists from corners or lateral freekicks be the same? And shouldn’t the players that win the penalties either get assists for it or a lot more credit than they get?

I’ve never seen a stat about which players win more penalties. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ronaldo won a bunch more penalties than Messi across his career given he’s a lot more prone to falling in the box.
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How much do some of you get paid?
 
GifLord said:
Because every time someone posts something that makes Messi just a tiny bit better than CR some of you come out with the weirdest mental gymnastics you'll ever see.
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I guess it's my bad for bringing logic into it.

I should have acused you of being paid to have made your post or of having Messi posters in your bedroom. Now that's the stuff.
 
Peyroteo said:
I guess it's my bad for bringing logic into it.

I should have acused you of being paid to have made your post or of having Messi posters in your bedroom. Now that's the stuff.
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You want facts?
Ronaldo's first penalty was scored vs WBA in the EFL cup - CR was 20 at the time
Messi's first penalty accounted is vs Nigeria at the u20 WC - Messi was 18 at the time

So please tell me Mr. PR guy

Messi’s 2 years younger and I’m pretty sure he started taking them later in his career so taking 28 more penalties across 1000 games of football doesn’t seem much at all actually. I thought the Penaldo thing was just a meme after 2016
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what a complete utter nonsense this sentence of yours is
 
Out of interest do people think that Messi or Ronaldo's international careers are in the top 10 greatest international careers ever?
 
Peyroteo said:
It's criminal that we're going to let this generation pass without these two playing for the same team in a random friendly match by the way.
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Make it happen!!!

Messi and C. Ronaldo in the same team is a sight to see.
Confident it'll work out -- Messi feeding passes to CR, CR provides the good movements. CR crosses to Messi unmarked in the box. CR waiting to tap in as Messi dribbles to the byline and deliver an acute low cross. Their movements are good, and I'm sure they have respects towards each other. Their playstyle doesn't really clash. CR on the left, Messi right.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Out of interest do people think that Messi or Ronaldo's international careers are in the top 10 greatest international careers ever?
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Theres like at least 1000 Brazilians who have had better careers for starters.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Out of interest do people think that Messi or Ronaldo's international careers are in the top 10 greatest international careers ever?
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Definitely not.

On a side note, the best Portugal team that I've seen in my life-time was definitely their Euro 2000 team which of course didn't have Ronaldo in it, but did have Figo, Rui Costa, Couto, Baia etc in their primes, an in-form Nuno Gomes, the likes of Conceicao, Pauleta, Costinha on the bench etc. I think that team was clearly stronger than any of their later ones under Scolari and / or with Ronaldo in them.

The best Argentina teams that I've seen in my life-time, either didn't have Messi in them or only had a teenage Messi sitting on the bench (i.e in 2006). I think Argentina were a better and more well-rounded team in 1998 (although Passarella not picking Redondo because of his refusal to get a haircut was crazy ) without Messi, than they were in 2010, 2014 (they were very underwhelming on their road to the final and were outplayed in their group game by Iran) and 2018 with a prime / primish Messi. I still think that they had a better and more well-balanced group of players available to them in 2002 (especially with a lot of talented players in their mid-20s or so) compared to 2010, 2014 and 2018, but they were undone by Bielsa's stubbornness and poor choices (plus arrogance).

Portugal's best player at Euro 2016 was clearly Pepe, while Argentina's best player at the 2014 World Cup was clearly Mascherano.
 
It's opinions , that's it, stats are bollocks realy, who you like or don't , I'm still on Ronaldo for the best and my opinion is soley on his adaptability to do it in different leagues. Messi is a great player and still is, but there is a but and that cannot be discussed it's just fact, hes played in 1 league whole career, international level Argentina have not pulled up trees, unlike Maradonna who did realy win the world cup for them?
If I had to just pick 1 player it would have to be Ronaldo.
 
Peyroteo said:
Looking back at it, the stupidest decision of Ronaldo's career was leaving United to a Madrid team that was much worse at the time right after Barca had won the treble. He left the Premier League to La Liga right as La Liga was passing the Premier League as the best league in the world :wenger:

Wasted 2/3 years trying to dethrone the best team ever with a team that simply wasn't on the same level, his trophy case would look so much better if he had avoided Pep's Barca and had stayed at United for 3/4 years more. During his 9 years in Madrid, Barca only finished under 90 points once and that's when they finished with 87 points. It was awful timing.
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Not necessarily. He may have won 4 more league titles but CL is not definite. Going to Spain allowed him to compete directly with Messi and pushed him higher on an individual basis to become a GOAT footballer. It also meant Real had to dig deep and buy players like Bale ON TOP OF Ronaldo to become kings of Europe. Had Real signed ROnaldo in 2013/14 they may not have built the squad around him to reach that level. I believe it was the realization that Ronaldo alone was not enough, which lead to them buying big players every season to compete in the toughest league title at the time
 
La liga and serie a will both be back soon.

Let’s get the fireworks going:


Whole career numbers:

Messi:
-Mins played: 69,919

-Goals: 699
-Mins per goal: 100.0

-Assists: 309
-Mins per assist: 226.3

-G+A: 1,008
-Mins per G+A: 69.4


CR7:
-Mins played: 81,191

-Goals: 726
-Mins per goal: 111.8

-Assists: 257
-Mins per assist: 315.9

-G+A: 983
-Mins per G+A: 82.6


-Lionel Messi could play 8000 minutes of football (88 full games), and score ZERO (0) goals, and still have a better goal per game ratio than CR7 currently has.

-That’s 1 and a half seasons.


Lionel Messi could play 27,500 minutes of football (305 full games), and get ZERO (0) assists, and still have a better assist per game ratio than CR7 currently has.

-That’s basically 6 seasons worth of games.

National team numbers:

Messi
-Mins per goal: 163.5
-Mins per assists: 245.3
-Mins per G/A: 98.1

CR7
-Mins per goal: 131.4
-Mins per assists: 315.9
-Mins per G/A: 95.22


-% of international goals that are against a top 50 FIFA ranked nation:

Messi: 82%
Ronaldo: 29%

-A big difference.


We can also look at their numbers from Major International tournaments only:

Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 111.5

Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 118.9

Messi:
-Mins per successful dribble: 18.5
-Dribble success: 61%
-Total successful dribbles: 2250

Ronaldo:
-Mins per successful dribble: 48.9
-Dribble success: 52.9%
-Total successful dribbles: 857

-Not that it was up for debate, but Messi is the clear better dribbler.


http://whoscored.com rating since 2009 (all competition, club and country):

-Messi: 8.58, 264 Motm awards.

-CR7: 8.07, 154 Motm awards.

Comparison between the two from understat that began tracking 2014 onward:

-Now, i very rarely see people use advanced metrics to judge Messi and Ronaldo, so that’s what I’m going to do.

Using data from understat which has data from the 14/15 season onwards, we can see lots about the two players since this time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY0Kjj5XsAE32bb.jpg

Messi leads in:
Goals per 90
xGBuildup90
xGChain90
Keypasses per 90
xAssists per90
Assists per 90

-CR7 leads in:
Shots per 90
xG per 90


So Ronaldo takes more shots yet scores less, and has a higher expected goals per 90, but lower actual goals per90.

-That tells us Messi must be the more clinical finisher?

-You’d be correct.

-Since the 14/15 season, Messi has an xG (expected goals) of 160, he has actually scored 195, out performing his xG by 35 goals.Exploding headExploding head

-In the same time, CR7 has an xG of 167.98, and has scored 176 goals, out performing his xG by 8.02.
 
Daysleeper said:
La liga and serie a will both be back soon.

Let’s get the fireworks going:


Whole career numbers:

Messi:
-Mins played: 69,919

-Goals: 699
-Mins per goal: 100.0

-Assists: 309
-Mins per assist: 226.3

-G+A: 1,008
-Mins per G+A: 69.4


CR7:
-Mins played: 81,191

-Goals: 726
-Mins per goal: 111.8

-Assists: 257
-Mins per assist: 315.9

-G+A: 983
-Mins per G+A: 82.6


-Lionel Messi could play 8000 minutes of football (88 full games), and score ZERO (0) goals, and still have a better goal per game ratio than CR7 currently has.

-That’s 1 and a half seasons.


Lionel Messi could play 27,500 minutes of football (305 full games), and get ZERO (0) assists, and still have a better assist per game ratio than CR7 currently has.

-That’s basically 6 seasons worth of games.

National team numbers:

Messi
-Mins per goal: 163.5
-Mins per assists: 245.3
-Mins per G/A: 98.1

CR7
-Mins per goal: 131.4
-Mins per assists: 315.9
-Mins per G/A: 95.22


-% of international goals that are against a top 50 FIFA ranked nation:

Messi: 82%
Ronaldo: 29%

-A big difference.


We can also look at their numbers from Major International tournaments only:

Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 111.5

Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 118.9

Messi:
-Mins per successful dribble: 18.5
-Dribble success: 61%
-Total successful dribbles: 2250

Ronaldo:
-Mins per successful dribble: 48.9
-Dribble success: 52.9%
-Total successful dribbles: 857

-Not that it was up for debate, but Messi is the clear better dribbler.


http://whoscored.com rating since 2009 (all competition, club and country):

-Messi: 8.58, 264 Motm awards.

-CR7: 8.07, 154 Motm awards.

Comparison between the two from understat that began tracking 2014 onward:

-Now, i very rarely see people use advanced metrics to judge Messi and Ronaldo, so that’s what I’m going to do.

Using data from understat which has data from the 14/15 season onwards, we can see lots about the two players since this time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY0Kjj5XsAE32bb.jpg

Messi leads in:
Goals per 90
xGBuildup90
xGChain90
Keypasses per 90
xAssists per90
Assists per 90

-CR7 leads in:
Shots per 90
xG per 90


So Ronaldo takes more shots yet scores less, and has a higher expected goals per 90, but lower actual goals per90.

-That tells us Messi must be the more clinical finisher?

-You’d be correct.

-Since the 14/15 season, Messi has an xG (expected goals) of 160, he has actually scored 195, out performing his xG by 35 goals.Exploding headExploding head

-In the same time, CR7 has an xG of 167.98, and has scored 176 goals, out performing his xG by 8.02.
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Saltier than the Dead Sea.
 
This should settle things... you either side with Gary Lineker the Golden Boot winning football pundit, or Piers Morgan.
 
Pass and Move said:
This should settle things... you either side with Gary Lineker the Golden Boot winning football pundit, or Piers Morgan.
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I am extremely biased in this debate fair enough, but I will never accept an argument that being stronger, fitter, faster has any relevance. And even at that I think you could argue the case for some of those either way.

Or most things Morgan says tbf.
 
BorisDeLeFora said:
I am extremely biased in this debate fair enough, but I will never accept an argument that being stronger, fitter, faster has any relevance. And even at that I think you could argue the case for some of those either way.

Or most things Morgan says tbf.
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So what will you accept? Goal scoring? Trophies? Not saying that proves which one is better but everyone has their own definition it seems.
 
shamans said:
So what will you accept? Goal scoring? Trophies? Not saying that proves which one is better but everyone has their own definition it seems.
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I am biased toward technique, playmaking, passing interplay.

You are correct, we all have our own definitions, and we are all wrong to someone.
 
Don't really get the fuss about inernational career. It's not like a player suddenly changes when he plays for his country. He's still the same footballer but the environment is different. Messi never really had the luxury of playing in a functioning team. Portugal was alsonnever really a team whose quality was good enough to win a title and they lucked the win to the one trophy they actually got.
 
BorisDeLeFora said:
I am extremely biased in this debate fair enough, but I will never accept an argument that being stronger, fitter, faster has any relevance. And even at that I think you could argue the case for some of those either way.

Or most things Morgan says tbf.
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I think it does have relevance, especially when the player its a master of making the best of those attributes. I'm not saying that Ronaldo is better than Messi for that reason, but its some attribues he has over Messi. His leap in the air fx is incredible and simply being able to outrun defenders is such advantage is counter attacking football.
 
Zehner said:
Don't really get the fuss about inernational career. It's not like a player suddenly changes when he plays for his country. He's still the same footballer but the environment is different. Messi never really had the luxury of playing in a functioning team. Portugal was alsonnever really a team whose quality was good enough to win a title and they lucked the win to the one trophy they actually got.
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:lol: Don't start this again. Argentina is not functioning, yet it was Higuain who dragged them to the world cup. Portugals Euro run up until the final was very impressive. Ronaldo ripped through teams and was an integral part of the whole tournament.

The pressure is really high at the international arena so that's why it counts. The fact that Messi in a start studded Argentina team could not win a world cup is negative for sure. Ronaldo is the type of leader who would have whipped the Argentina team in shape and won them a world cup.
 
shamans said:
:lol: Don't start this again. Argentina is not functioning, yet it was Higuain who dragged them to the world cup. Portugals Euro run up until the final was very impressive. Ronaldo ripped through teams and was an integral part of the whole tournament.
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Higuain? The man who scored one goal during the whole tournament??? And missed the sitter in the final?

also, Portugal finished third in one of the easiest groups of all time, and won one match in total during normal time the whole tournament. Your post has to be a wind up, it is one of the worst champions’ run in memory ffs. Ronaldo did well against Hungary and Wales - two teams not seen at a tournament years before or since. Was very underwhelming in all the other games. AND they won the final without him....
 
pregra said:
Higuain? The man who scored one goal during the whole tournament??? And missed the sitter in the final?

also, Portugal finished third in one of the easiest groups of all time, and won one match in total during normal time the whole tournament. Your post has to be a wind up, it is one of the worst champions’ run in memory ffs. Ronaldo did well against Hungary and Wales - two teams not seen at a tournament years before or since. Was very underwhelming in all the other games. AND they won the final without him....
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Maybe if Messi had done well against similar shit teams Argentina would have had a trophy? (not to forget bottling pens) and yes had Higuin not bailed Argentina out in the qualified there would be no world cup for Argentina.
 
Oh god the level of debate is so weak. It just goes round in circles.
 
fps said:
Oh god the level of debate is so weak. It just goes round in circles.
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I know it's boring beyond belief. If Higauin had just finished his 1 on 1 vs Germany we could beyond this whole Messi needs to win a world cup debate. Messi has had a poor season by this standards and been injured yet still has 26 goals in 35 games for Barcalona. Both Ronaldo and Messi have been freaks of nature for over decade.
 
Last edited:
shamans said:
Maybe if Messi had done well against similar shit teams Argentina would have had a trophy? (not to forget bottling pens) and yes had Higuin not bailed Argentina out in the qualified there would be no world cup for Argentina.
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What the heck are you on about? Messi was Argentinas highest scorer and best player in the qualifiers, Higuian have never «bailed» out Argentina whatsoever.
 
Adama Traore is faster, fitter and stronger than Messi too. So what?

The argument that he's done it in different leagues is nonsense too. We know Messi would dominate in any league he plays. Staying at one club is not a negative. Especially when it's arguably the biggest club in the world and for a while was enjoying an era that many considered was the greatest club side of all time. You only need to watch the PL and guys like Salah, Hazard, Mane, Mahrez, David Silva, Aguero, Coutinho have all been stars in recent seasons but of course Messi would struggle. Dybala is a star in Italy and can't even get in the Argentina team because of Messi so the Serie A angle is crazy too.
 
I
Daysleeper said:
La liga and serie a will both be back soon.

Let’s get the fireworks going:


Whole career numbers:

Messi:
-Mins played: 69,919

-Goals: 699
-Mins per goal: 100.0

-Assists: 309
-Mins per assist: 226.3

-G+A: 1,008
-Mins per G+A: 69.4


CR7:
-Mins played: 81,191

-Goals: 726
-Mins per goal: 111.8

-Assists: 257
-Mins per assist: 315.9

-G+A: 983
-Mins per G+A: 82.6


-Lionel Messi could play 8000 minutes of football (88 full games), and score ZERO (0) goals, and still have a better goal per game ratio than CR7 currently has.

-That’s 1 and a half seasons.


Lionel Messi could play 27,500 minutes of football (305 full games), and get ZERO (0) assists, and still have a better assist per game ratio than CR7 currently has.

-That’s basically 6 seasons worth of games.

National team numbers:

Messi
-Mins per goal: 163.5
-Mins per assists: 245.3
-Mins per G/A: 98.1

CR7
-Mins per goal: 131.4
-Mins per assists: 315.9
-Mins per G/A: 95.22


-% of international goals that are against a top 50 FIFA ranked nation:

Messi: 82%
Ronaldo: 29%

-A big difference.


We can also look at their numbers from Major International tournaments only:

Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 111.5

Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 118.9

Messi:
-Mins per successful dribble: 18.5
-Dribble success: 61%
-Total successful dribbles: 2250

Ronaldo:
-Mins per successful dribble: 48.9
-Dribble success: 52.9%
-Total successful dribbles: 857

-Not that it was up for debate, but Messi is the clear better dribbler.


http://whoscored.com rating since 2009 (all competition, club and country):

-Messi: 8.58, 264 Motm awards.

-CR7: 8.07, 154 Motm awards.

Comparison between the two from understat that began tracking 2014 onward:

-Now, i very rarely see people use advanced metrics to judge Messi and Ronaldo, so that’s what I’m going to do.

Using data from understat which has data from the 14/15 season onwards, we can see lots about the two players since this time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY0Kjj5XsAE32bb.jpg

Messi leads in:
Goals per 90
xGBuildup90
xGChain90
Keypasses per 90
xAssists per90
Assists per 90

-CR7 leads in:
Shots per 90
xG per 90


So Ronaldo takes more shots yet scores less, and has a higher expected goals per 90, but lower actual goals per90.

-That tells us Messi must be the more clinical finisher?

-You’d be correct.

-Since the 14/15 season, Messi has an xG (expected goals) of 160, he has actually scored 195, out performing his xG by 35 goals.Exploding headExploding head

-In the same time, CR7 has an xG of 167.98, and has scored 176 goals, out performing his xG by 8.02.
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Im a little late but, feck off
 
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