yup he's past it
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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yup he's past it
He is not past it but Ronaldo is just passed him thats the thing.
yup he's past it
31 goals and 5 assists is better than 25 / 21?
It’s difficult to compare across different leagues, although Ronaldo was playing in a much more defensive team.
He also took 12 penalties vs 5 for Messi. Juve also conceded 5 more league goals than Barca did; hardly the mark of a more defensive team.
Regardless, I find it mind boggling that someone can have looked at this past season and decided it pushes Ronaldo ahead of Messi. If you already felt he was better, then sure fair enough. That this year somehow tipped the scales is bizarre.
nope, Messi comfortably had the better season individually. Record breaking season.
It's unfair on Ronaldo to be compared to a goat like Messi.
Seen who he scored majority of his goals against and at what stage of the games?
yup he's past it
I am firm believer of context of goals counting for something, taking nothing away from the stats above though.
The GOAT is either Maradona or Pele. Unless one of CR7 or Messi wins at least a World Cup.
Just curious. Why does 1 World Cup matter more than multiple league titles in Europe's top competitions, 5 CL's and 1 EURO? (In Ronaldo's case)
Ronaldo beats Maradona on probably literally every metric except that 1 World Cup. 5 CL's don't matter as much?
I am going to presume you meant trophies for metric and not what they do on the field.
Outside of the stories and the following two games on Youtube from last century
Brazil vs Italy 1970 World Cup Final Full Game and
1958 World Cup Final Brazil/Sweden FULL MATCH
Please remind me again why some of you think Pele could be the "GOAT"
Brazil vs Italy 1970 World Cup Final Full Game and
1958 World Cup Final Brazil/Sweden FULL MATCH
Please remind me again why some of you think Pele could be the "GOAT"
That is a giant exaggeration.
No one is galaxies above Pele, Maradona or Cruyff.
We don't need to slag off other legendary players to prop up Messi and Ronaldo.
I'm just spouting what usually is used to measure who the GOAT is. For me it's just a matter of seeing and the best player I've seen in my life is Diego Armando Maradona! Now, when it comes to goal scoring, Ronaldo is the strongest weapon in the history of the game. He has it all, pace, technique, height, strength, tactical intelligence, work ethics and even longevity. But it's hard for me to say one is the best.
Messi is a magical player.
Ronaldo is pure mentality.
Messi has an advantage to his magic by playing against getafe, mallorca and betis for 90% of his league games because it helps his number record aswell as the type of magical goal he scores. Messi then has the advantage of playing at a system built like Barcelona where at its peak he gets to play with players like xavi, Iniesta, neymar and when its crumbled its playing with players like Greizmann, Suarez, arthur, de jong, coutinho & more - even if they dont fit tacticallly perfect- isnt exactly technically anything to cry about at the start of the season. Ronaldo played with Raul, Bale, Rooney, Benzema, Higuain, Van nistelrooy's, Alan Smith's, Park Ji sungs- the guy is just a phenomenon by himself capable of playing with anyone, against anyone, in any system, in any league, with any manager. Just wow.
Magic vs mentality.
Ronaldo is pure mentality.
Messi has an advantage to his magic by playing against getafe, mallorca and betis for 90% of his league games because it helps his number record aswell as the type of magical goal he scores. Messi then has the advantage of playing at a system built like Barcelona where at its peak he gets to play with players like xavi, Iniesta, neymar and when its crumbled its playing with players like Greizmann, Suarez, arthur, de jong, coutinho & more - even if they dont fit tacticallly perfect- isnt exactly technically anything to cry about at the start of the season. Ronaldo played with Raul, Bale, Rooney, Benzema, Higuain, Van nistelrooy's, Alan Smith's, Park Ji sungs- the guy is just a phenomenon by himself capable of playing with anyone, against anyone, in any system, in any league, with any manager. Just wow.
Magic vs mentality.
Of course. No denying that Ronaldo is amazing and will go down as one of the absolute greats.
Ronaldo had a good season but ultimately he was the 2nd top scorer in the 4th (arguably 3rd) strongest league with the likes of Immobile outscoring him and a donkey like Lukaku with more non-penalty goals in all competitions. Last season, he was outscored by a 36 year old Quagliarella as well. This is all while playing for a team that has won the league 9 times in a row.
Messi topped every chart in a stronger league in a team that came 2nd.
And that's just stats, let's not pretend that Ronaldo's all round game influence was similar to Messi's, even against the weaker teams of Serie A.
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Messi is literally the all-time scorer in El Clasicos and has scored plenty of goals vs Atleti as well.
This point makes no sense, because Ronaldo's goals for Portgual are mostly vs some horrible teams(teams far worse than Getafe, Mallorca or Betis).
Messi didn't have Xavi nor Iniesta nor Neymar in 2018-2019 and had arguably his best season individually.
And Ronaldo has played on amazing teams too and has arguably played under better managers.
Yeah, it's a bit silly. If people generally think Ronaldo is better then fair enough. But every time he scores there are so many people like "well, that proves it, he's the GOAT, end of discussion".
You are?
Meanwhile Messi has scored most international goals against Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay with 5 against each.
Look at that list of teams Ronaldo has scored 5 or more against
Meanwhile Messi has scored most international goals against Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay with 5 against each.
Look at that list of teams Ronaldo has scored 5 or more against
Who the feck is Paraguay
I’m not talking about just last season, Ronaldo simply has surpassed Messi since 5 years ago. The 3 peat and euro win along with all the records in the process.
He still has 2 more that he will break.
Only a WC win would take Messi over Ronaldo at this point. A copa América would ignite the debate to a more even playing field. That’s a big IF though.
One is expected to be the playmaker in the team and still be the number one goal scorer of the team, the other is expected to mainly score (not that he's just a poacher though but still...). The former still scores basically as much as the latter, but apparently the latter is better (and more complete) according to some...
Well it seems like most people didn't get the memo that the debate has been over since 5 years, i wonder how we missed it...
You do realise that no matter how much you want to believe and how many times you write this stuff, there is a world outside this forum and the majority of managers, players and fans that reside in it think that Messi is better.
If the debate is over as of 5 years ago, it should be easy to find a large poll online where Ronaldo wins or an article or video where more players or managers say Ronaldo is better because I have yet to see one. I can post numerous examples of the opposite.
Messi is better
Ronaldo has done better
Ronaldo has done better
The way I put it is this.
Messi is the most talented. Ronaldo is the greatest. There is not much debate for either of those two statements. Greatness comes from more then just talent which Ronaldo has bags of. It is all the other intangibles, The mentality, the grit, the fact that he shines when his back is against the Wall and when the lights shine brightest. Messi is the polar opposite of Ronaldo when it comes to mentality.
Ronaldo is a 1/1
There has been a player like Messi before his name was Diego Maradona. Besides the WC win Messi is everything Maradona would have been had he not been a so turbulent outside of football.
Ronaldo is just a one of one, there has never been a player with both his ability and Mentality put into one. He is quite literally the MJ of his Sport.
Yet in the 35 head to head games Messi outperforms him in every way
Goals: Messi 22 Ronaldo 19
Assists: Messi. 11 Ronaldo 1
Wins: Messi 16 Ronaldo 10
Losses: Messi. 10 Ronaldo 16
Hardly MJ level there.
If there was ever a game to show really mentality its this one
#www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpiOWtfxI0
Had the the crap kicked out of him and his teeth knocked out. Still got up and pulled off this performance on one of the most important games of the season at the Bernabeu bring his team back into the game and winning it last minute.
I do think that Ronaldo is better or at least I prefer him as a player so it's a shame he doesn't play for us anymore, maybe after both he retires (along Messi) people will give him more credit as he seems to get more hate due to his personality.
The only thing I find odd when people compare both of them is when they bring Messi as more 'natural' talented player and Ronaldo just someone who goes to the gym or describe him as a good athlete; as if that would make him artificially taltented or something, I think. So I think it's odd because one required an hormonal treatment to have a somewhat normal growth so it really doesn't make sense to try and discredit Ronaldo as someone artificial when all he has done is the product of his own talent and effort and I also think it's a discredit to Messi as he's also a remarkable professional who requires to be in top shape to perform at the level he does.
The only thing I find odd when people compare both of them is when they bring Messi as more 'natural' talented player and Ronaldo just someone who goes to the gym or describe him as a good athlete; as if that would make him artificially taltented or something, I think. So I think it's odd because one required an hormonal treatment to have a somewhat normal growth so it really doesn't make sense to try and discredit Ronaldo as someone artificial when all he has done is the product of his own talent and effort and I also think it's a discredit to Messi as he's also a remarkable professional who requires to be in top shape to perform at the level he does.
This will only get somewhat interesting if Ronaldo won the next Euro again.
Until then, no matter what Ronaldo does, football traditionalists will always favor Messi because they value playmaking and dribbling above everything else (which is precisely all those intangible factors in football, such as the ability to score when losing, the compatibility with a cohesive team, off-the-ball prowess, etc.).
Ronaldo will never receive as much goodwill from the football fandom than Messi due to his playing style more than anything else.
If Ronaldo wins the next Euro AND the next World Cup, then the balance may just about be tipped in Ronaldo's favor.
Until then, no matter what Ronaldo does, football traditionalists will always favor Messi because they value playmaking and dribbling above everything else (which is precisely all those intangible factors in football, such as the ability to score when losing, the compatibility with a cohesive team, off-the-ball prowess, etc.).
Ronaldo will never receive as much goodwill from the football fandom than Messi due to his playing style more than anything else.
If Ronaldo wins the next Euro AND the next World Cup, then the balance may just about be tipped in Ronaldo's favor.
"May just about be tipped"? If Ronaldo wins euro and World Cup, the debate is over.
I think Messi just edges it as a player, but Ronaldo is phenomenal and my favourite of the two. He is one of our own and we got to watch him develop.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Messi’s season at 33 years old to Ronaldo’s season at 35 years old.
When Ronaldo turned 33, he was scoring 15 goals in 13 CL games as Madrid lifted the trophy for the 3rd consecutive season.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Messi’s season at 33 years old to Ronaldo’s season at 35 years old.
When Ronaldo turned 33, he was scoring 15 goals in 13 CL games as Madrid lifted the trophy for the 3rd consecutive season.
People said the same thing before the last Euro. They said the same when Ronaldo was 4-1 down in Ballon D’ors. They also said the same before Ronaldo 3-peated the CL. It was always..”if he manages to do this he’ll finally be on equal standing or ahead.” However, whenever he managed to achieve and even surpass those challenges (massively against the odds and to the huge surprise of his detractors), the same people would just come up with more excuses and other things he needed to prove to be better than Messi. So no matter what he does, I feel those who prefer Messi will continue to prefer him regardless. Which is fine I guess. But Ronaldo’s achievements simply cannot be downplayed.
I still think Ronaldo is every bit as good as he was at 33. It’s just the lack of quality in his club side cripples and somewhat suppresses his talent. Even then, he managed record breaking numbers for Juve domestically last season.
I don't get why we can't just enjoy possibly the best 2 players to ever play the game without finding faults in one just to prove the other is better.
Also, Ronaldo is clearly better.
Also, Ronaldo is clearly better.
It might be unfair but that's how it is and it also applies to Messi, both will be still looked down when compared to someone like Pelé because of them not having won a World Cup, but if either wins one (which I doubt) then that would get them to the next level.
In Ronaldo's case he's already surpassed the expectations of someone who plays for Portugal, he's the best player they've ever had and finally won a major tournament so I'd guess people in Portugal do rate him a lot and are quite satisfied with his performances and achievments.
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