Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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I also love how the Messi brigade celebrates losing 3 finals as an achievement. People marvel at MJ because he went to 6 finals and won them all. It would be a different story if he went to 6 finals and lost them all. No one celebrates losing.

Also 2 of those finals are in the piss easy Copa America.
 
Suedesi said:
That's a really stupid point and diminishes the role of the other 10 players in the team and aggrandizes the role of Ronaldo. Take 2004 for example - tournament was at home, Figo and Rui Costa were at their pomp, Deco having a great tournament and Porto had just won the CL thus Paulo Ferreira, Costinha, Carvalho, Maniche etc were in the form of their lives. Ronaldo was not a primary, secondary or tertiary factor in that achievement, but go ahead and knock yourself out.
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Did you even watch that tourney or are you making a blind point? Figo was horrid that whole tournament. Ronaldo at 19 scored 2 goals that tournament 1 being in the semi finals. He was in team of the tournament and started the final as well. He was fantastic that whole competition.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Messi
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Peyroteo said:
In the past 6/7 years it’s not true at all there’s any sort of significant difference between Ronaldo’s performances for club and country. It was very much the case from 2008 to 2011 when he got heavily criticized but it was the opposite before then with him playing better for Portugal from 2004 to 2007 than he did for United.

Queiroz’s time as Portugal manager was the only time there was a significant drop in quality he deserved to be criticized for.
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I guess we'll disagree. How do you explain that game against Uruguay then? I thought Ronaldo's performance against Uruguay was awful - definitely much worse than any of his performances for Juventus in the CL knockouts this season. You can give credit to Uruguay, but I haven't seen Ronaldo that uninvolved in a game in years. Even against Liverpool (CL Final) when he had a really bad game, I feel like he at least tried to get involved. Against Uruguay, he looked like he wasn't even playing - similar to Messi's performance against Roma away from home.

He also looked really nervous against Iran - missing a penalty and almost getting sent off. I feel like you don't see that if he was with Real Madrid in the CL.

At the end of the day, it still stands that he has 0 goals in the World Cup knockouts. Also, I feel that both Messi and Ronaldo do not show much in the finals for their national teams. They both scored multiple goals in CL finals, yet nothing for their national team. I don't really think the Nations Cup is much of a competition but I thought Ronaldo disappeared in the final when he was excellent just in the semi-final before. Don't get me wrong, they are both amazing players, but it's obvious their performances in the finals and World Cup knockouts are nowhere near their performances for their clubs in those type of games.

You may be right that Ronaldo was much worse under Queiroz, but at the same time, I do believe Portugal goes through against Uruguay if he steps it up. Look at the way Cavani performed, carried them on his back. After he got injured, Ronaldo should have taken over the game. Just check out how clueless Uruguay looked against France when Cavani wasn't there. Guys like Cavani/Suarez play for a very bad offensive team (great defensively though), so there really is no excuse when Messi/Ronaldo cannot get past group stage or score in World Cup knockouts. If these guys can do it for a country like Uruguay (their midfielders are Vecino/Bentancur), Messi/Ronaldo need to do better.

They probably still have a World Cup each left.
 
Pocho said:
Not saying that he is better because the poll says so. He is better and United fans by a vast majority think so.
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Not even remotely true, unless you have some figures to back that up? Most of the Messi supporters in this thread are Barca fans, Argentines or Ajax fans. I've seen the question be asked on a couple of forums e.g. the Sunderland one and Ronaldo actually usually has the majority in those - which isn't surprising since English clubs actually got to see the young Ronaldo week in week out.
 
Peyroteo said:
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I just spit all my cofee in y office keyboard. Damn you :D
 
As a coach i would prefer Ronaldo. He is more of a leader and example for other players.
 
marktan said:
Not even remotely true, unless you have some figures to back that up? Most of the Messi supporters in this thread are Barca fans, Argentines or Ajax fans. I've seen the question be asked on a couple of forums e.g. the Sunderland one and Ronaldo actually usually has the majority in those - which isn't surprising since English clubs actually got to see the young Ronaldo week in week out.
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are you trying to tell us that in this forum argentines and Barça fans are more than United, portuguese and Real Madrid fans?
 
Its funny to me how the narrative always Changed for Ronaldo. I remember a few season ago people saying that what would decide who was better was when one of them achieved glory on the international stage like past legends of the game since there club careers almost even. This narrative especially grew circa the summer of 2014 (guess why?).

THEN Ronaldo wins the Euro with Portugal being arguably their most important player and driving force in doing so and it means nothing.

I guarantee if he never won the Euro and Messi had won just 1 Copa this thread would have been closed.

The narrative always changes for the golden child.
 
Pocho said:
I think that the Messi at 32 and Ronaldo at 34

are you trying to tell us that in this forum argentines and Barça fans are more than United, portuguese and Real Madrid fans?
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We have already discussed how that poll lost all credibility with the nonsense that happened around it.
 
Next year could be Messi's last chance to win something and catch Ronaldo. :D since they'll be partiallly hosting the tournament even though I doubt it.
 
Pocho said:
I think that the Messi at 32 and Ronaldo at 34

are you trying to tell us that in this forum argentines and Barça fans are more than United, portuguese and Real Madrid fans?
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What do you mean? Are you talking about the poll? That poll has been closed for most of the last few years when Ronaldo won 3 CLs, it was reopened when Messi scores against pool, then closed just before they went out to Liverpool.. Hardly a reliable poll.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Did you even watch that tourney or are you making a blind point? Figo was horrid that whole tournament. Ronaldo at 19 scored 2 goals that tournament 1 being in the semi finals. He was in team of the tournament and started the final as well. He was fantastic that whole competition.
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That comment was so wrong... 19 year old Ronaldo was miles better than Figo in Euro 2004 who had a very poor tournament, the argument then was who started between Deco and Rui Costa and throughout the tournament people wanted Simão instead of Figo.

There was Ronaldo, Simão, Figo, Deco and Rui Costa and the only player who was an undisputed starter behind the striker throughout the tournament was Ronaldo. He was our best forward in Euro 2004 and the exact same thing went on to happen in the 2006 WC.

It was a very complete team overall but he was standing out even then and was indisputably a key player already. He was much better for Portugal than for United back then, mainly because he got to play closer to goal.

He was a already a legend for Portugal way back in 2006. Then the Queiroz years hurt his reputation before more than making up for it since Paulo Bento came in.
 
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Peyroteo said:
Nah, in the past year Messi was better. Not as far away as people pretend though. They played in very different contexts and as we’ve seen with Messi in Argentina and Messi in Barcelona, it massively affects how good they look.

Ronaldo’s season is underrated because his numbers went down despite overall playing better than he did in 2017/18. Hopefully with Sarri coming in he can have a lot more chances to shine next season and he puts up bigger numbers.
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He also didn't play as many games. He had some injuries to deal with. But 21 goals and 8 assists in 31 starts is a pretty damn good return considering he's doing it in a brand new team and league. I expect those numbers will go up a lot this year...
 
Peyroteo said:
That comment was so wrong... 19 year old Ronaldo was miles better than Figo in Euro 2004 who had a very poor tournament, the argument then was who started between Deco and Rui Costa and throughout the tournament people wanted Simão instead of Figo.

There was Ronaldo, Simão, Figo, Deco and Rui Costa and the only player who was an undisputed starter behind the striker throughout the tournament was Ronaldo. He was our best forward in Euro 2004 and the exact same thing went on to happen in the 2006 WC.

It was a very complete team overall but he was standing out even then and was indisputably a key player already. He was much better for Portugal than for United back then, mainly because he got to play closer to goal.
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I agree at 19 years old he was the most dangerous attacking player in a team that went to its first ever final and was running rings around defenses. In the final vs Greece he was also the most dangerous outlet and the closest we to scoring in that game. AT 19!

As you said his worst years were under Queiroz where he had Portugal playing with every man behind the ball bar Ronaldo. Once he left Ronaldo went back to his natural scoring ways.


We are talking about a guy who by the time he retires might (very) possibly have 100 goals for his country. Animal absolute animal.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
He also didn't play as many games. He had some injuries to deal with. But 21 goals and 8 assists in 31 starts is a pretty damn good return considering he's doing it in a brand new team and league. I expect those numbers will go up a lot this year...
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I have no doubt they will go up again. I just hope Juve make some big improvements to there side. So far 3 signings all on a free Ramsey, Rabiot, Buffon.
 
marktan said:
What do you mean? Are you talking about the poll? That poll has been closed for most of the last few years when Ronaldo won 3 CLs, it was reopened when Messi scores against pool, then closed just before they went out to Liverpool.. Hardly a reliable poll.
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Pick another poll then - I've yet to see one with Ronaldo winning



http://messivsronaldo.net/
Messi = 64%
Ronaldo = 36%

https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/messi-vs-ronaldo.30195/page-22
Messi = 74.7%
Ronaldo = 25.3%

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/messi-v-ronaldo.134543/
Messi = 90.1%
Ronaldo = 4.2%

You're welcome to find any polls that favour Ronaldo - I just did a quick google
 
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MalcolmTucker said:
Pick another poll then - I've yet to see one with Ronaldo winning



http://messivsronaldo.net/
Messi = 64%
Ronaldo = 36%

https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/messi-vs-ronaldo.30195/page-22
Messi = 74.7%
Ronaldo = 25.3%

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/messi-v-ronaldo.134543/
Messi = 90.1%
Ronaldo = 4.2%

You're welcome to find any polls that favour Ronaldo - I just did a quick google
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Fair enough - I was just going by the Sunderland one I saw a couple weeks ago after the nation's league win. CBA to find it.

Pocho said:
Ronaldo fans live in their own fantastic world. Don't be cruel.
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Hah you're the worst poster in this thread, and that takes some doing. Just ad hominem over and over again. Won't hide the fact that your boy has been missing outside of la Liga for about 5 years now, while Ronaldo has racked up 4 CLs and 2 international titles in that time
 
marktan said:
Fair enough - I was just going by the Sunderland one I saw a couple weeks ago after the nation's league win. CBA to find it.



Hah you're the worst poster in this thread, and that takes some doing. Just ad hominem over and over again. Won't hide the fact that your boy has been missing outside of la Liga for about 5 years now, while Ronaldo has racked up 4 CLs and 2 international titles in that time
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the paradox:lol:
 
Pocho said:
the paradox:lol:
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.. that was the point, calling you out on it. I haven't done it before. But whatever, you enjoy this cesspool of a thread, telling you didn't reply to the actual point I made about Ronaldo Messi, instead just focusing on the poster.
 
Messi's quotes from after the game from soccernet "It was like that all match. It was bulls--- that they were doing it all match. There is no excuse -- it must be looked into. Hopefully, CONMEBOL does something about these kind of referees.

"Because we did everything to try and advance but [the officials] stacked the deck against us. I don't believe they will do anything because Brazil controls everything, so it is very complicated. But I don't think we should feel bad for anything. It didn't happen and we had bad luck."

Probably the most talented footballer ever, but what a crybaby :lol:. If Brazil control everything, where have they been since 2002? They haven't won a Copa in 10+ years I think too.
 
SportingCP96 said:
I also love how the Messi brigade celebrates losing 3 finals as an achievement. People marvel at MJ because he went to 6 finals and won them all. It would be a different story if he went to 6 finals and lost them all. No one celebrates losing.

Also 2 of those finals are in the piss easy Copa America.
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4 finals actually. Can't forget 2007. :lol:
 
MalcolmTucker said:
Pick another poll then - I've yet to see one with Ronaldo winning



http://messivsronaldo.net/
Messi = 64%
Ronaldo = 36%

https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/messi-vs-ronaldo.30195/page-22
Messi = 74.7%
Ronaldo = 25.3%

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/messi-v-ronaldo.134543/
Messi = 90.1%
Ronaldo = 4.2%

You're welcome to find any polls that favour Ronaldo - I just did a quick google
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Who cares about that. No one is saying Messi sucks.

In fact, I agree he’s the most talented/best all around player ever. That doesn’t mean I take him because of the fact he’s not a big game player and isn’t reliable with the spotlight on him. There’s a balance to be had there and due to that, I’ll take Cristiano every day of the week. There’s no excuses with him and more often than not he wills his way to be a difference maker...you just can’t say the same for Messi or others in history who were talented but choked on the big stage.

People who fail to differentiate the 2 obviously have an agenda which they can’t let go of and are deluded enough to live in.
 
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Messi is playing with rubbish teammates at both Barca and Argentina, they are only signing De Jong and Griezmann this summer. If they win anything it'll be purely down to genius of Messi because rest of his teammates always let him down.
 
Ole’s Wheel said:
Who cares about that. No one is saying Messi sucks.

In fact, I agree he’s the most talented/best all around player ever. That doesn’t mean I take him because of the fact he’s not a big game player and isn’t reliable with the spotlight on him. There’s a balance to be had there and due to that, I’ll take Cristiano every day of the week. There’s no excuses with him and more often than not he wills his way to be a difference maker...you just can’t say the same for Messi or others in history who were talented but choked on the big stage.

People who fail to differentiate the 2 obviously have an agenda which they can’t let go of and are deluded enough to live in.
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Messi scores more goals against the top 4 teams in La Liga than he does against mediocre opposition. He scored decisive goals in both CL finals against us(United) and is 2nd in top CL goals of all time.

I don't understand how some can say he's not a big game player.
 
Shamana said:
Messi scores more goals against the top 4 teams in La Liga than he does against mediocre opposition. He scored decisive goals in both CL finals against us(United) and is 2nd in top CL goals of all time.

I don't understand how some can say he's not a big game player.
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You do know I’m comparing him to Ronaldo in that regard and not Lukaku right?
 
Ole’s Wheel said:
You do know I’m comparing him to Ronaldo in that regard and not Lukaku right?
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Yeah. He's scored loads against the best PL teams too apart from Chelsea. He's usually outshone and outscored Ronaldo in Classico's and when they have gone head to head. I wouldn't say that he's more or a lesser big game player than Ronaldo. I'd rate them about equal.
 
Kush said:
Messi is playing with rubbish teammates at both Barca and Argentina, they are only signing De Jong and Griezmann this summer. If they win anything it'll be purely down to genius of Messi because rest of his teammates always let him down.
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:lol::lol:
 
Shamana said:
Yeah. He's scored loads against the best PL teams too apart from Chelsea. He's usually outshone and outscored Ronaldo in Classico's and when they have gone head to head. I wouldn't say that he's more or a lesser big game player than Ronaldo. I'd rate them about equal.
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Amar__ said:
Oh didn't realise this became a fact, thanks for clearing that up
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And this is where this discussion ends whether you like it or not.


Messi’s International Career

06 World Cup: QF L
07 Copa America: Final L
10 World Cup: QF L
11 Copa America: QF L
14 World Cup: Final L
15 Copa America: Final L
16 Copa America: Final L
18 World Cup: Round of 16 L
19 Copa America: SF L


...Messi in this most recent Copa America: 5 games, 1 goal (penalty), 0 assists.

But yeah nothing is ever his fault.
 
Ole’s Wheel said:
And this is where this discussion ends whether you like it or not.


Messi’s International Career

06 World Cup: QF L
07 Copa America: Final L
10 World Cup: QF L
11 Copa America: QF L
14 World Cup: Final L
15 Copa America: Final L
16 Copa America: Final L
18 World Cup: Round of 16 L
19 Copa America: SF L


...Messi in this most recent Copa America: 5 games, 1 goal (penalty), 0 assists.

But yeah nothing is ever his fault.
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Yep never. It's always Higuain, teammates, referee, conmebol, the grass, the manager etc.
 
SportingCP96 said:
I remember a few season ago people saying that what would decide who was better was when one of them achieved glory on the international stage like past legends of the game since there club careers almost even.
THEN Ronaldo wins the Euro with Portugal being arguably their most important player and driving force in doing so and it means nothing.
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because of the way it happened. neither Messi, neither Ronaldo ever, EVER elevated their NT over the other, superior national team. they literally lost every single key match they played against the top national teams and those are the facts. the only difference is that Ronaldo somehow got to play Poland and Wales before final and then Portugal won without him afterwards. most people are aware of that and don't really have the memory of goldfish just because he finally has that trophy, as nothing has really changed. I mean, he's 35 and untill last WC he had zero goals against France, Brazil, Germany, Spain and others. Messi isn't any better in that regard.
 
Ole’s Wheel said:
And this is where this discussion ends whether you like it or not.


Messi’s International Career

06 World Cup: QF L
07 Copa America: Final L
10 World Cup: QF L
11 Copa America: QF L
14 World Cup: Final L
15 Copa America: Final L
16 Copa America: Final L
18 World Cup: Round of 16 L
19 Copa America: SF L


...Messi in this most recent Copa America: 5 games, 1 goal (penalty), 0 assists.

But yeah nothing is ever his fault.
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I think we can all agree that it would elevate Messi's pedigree if he won the WC or something similar, but those are not all the big matches he's played. It doesn't really paint the whole picture. So if Portugal lost the Euro final vs France that he virtually played no part in would Ronaldo be considered a inferior player?

As a dane I don't consider Brian Laudrup a greater player than his brother Michael Laudrup because he was a key player in Denmark winning the euro's. Michael was a genius on the pitch and showed it week in and week out against the biggest teams too. So does Messi. He doesn't single handedly win every match on his own but no player in history has.

I don't consider Luiz Ronaldo a better or greater player than Messi either because of his international succes. If he'd played to his full potential throughout his career maybe he would be the greatest player ever, but he didnt maybe largely because of his injuries.
 
Bole Top said:
because of the way it happened. neither Messi, neither Ronaldo ever, EVER elevated their NT over the other, superior national team. they literally lost every single key match they played against the top national teams and those are the facts. the only difference is that Ronaldo somehow got to play Poland and Wales before final and then Portugal won without him afterwards. most people are aware of that and don't really have the memory of goldfish just because he finally has that trophy, as nothing has really changed. I mean, he's 35 and untill last WC he had zero goals against France, Brazil, Germany, Spain and others. Messi isn't any better in that regard.
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Thank God someone said it even if Messi won Copa I'd say his international career was still underwelming just like CR.

People acting like they have R9 and Zidane level international dominations.
 
Shamana said:
I think we can all agree that it would elevate Messi's pedigree if he won the WC or something similar, but those are not all the big matches he's played. It doesn't really paint the whole picture. So if Portugal lost the Euro final vs France that he virtually played no part in would Ronaldo be considered a inferior player?

As a dane I don't consider Brian Laudrup a greater player than his brother Michael Laudrup because he was a key player in Denmark winning the euro's. Michael was a genius on the pitch and showed it week in and week out against the biggest teams too. So does Messi. He doesn't single handedly win every match on his own but no player in history has.

I don't consider Luiz Ronaldo a better or greater player than Messi either because of his international succes. If he'd played to his full potential throughout his career maybe he would be the greatest player ever, but he didnt maybe largely because of his injuries.
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Ronaldo (the fat one) played in an amazing Brasil team. Put Messi or Ronaldo in those teams and the same outcome happens. In fact they probably win the 98 WC. That’s why he ain’t up there next to these 2.

* keep in mind I love fat Ronaldo he was exciting to watch.
 
Ronaldo seem to have a better head. That drive and mentality to win the big titles and perform at his best in the biggest games. Messi do not fully have the same and often goes missing in the biggest games. Overall I still think Messi is better though, but hard to deny what Ronaldo have done for Real Madrid in the CL.
 
DoneDaDa said:
Thank God someone said it even if Messi won Copa I'd say his international career was still underwelming just like CR.

People acting like they have R9 and Zidane level international dominations.
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for me they simply can't compare. I'd give them both 10 for their club careers, but 7.5 for Ronnie's NT career and 7 for Messi regardless of his world cup 2014 golden ball. neither of them had memorable world cup/euro campaign.
 
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