Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ole’s Wheel said:
And the people who think Argentina are a subpar team either think football success doesn’t mean needing quality players or base their opinions off emotions.

...can’t believe some people are still trying to convince the world that Messi plays for a terrible team :lol:
Click to expand...

They're not terrible but they're poor. They've got great, attacking players but their midfield and defence is abysmal. They're playing a CB that can't even get a game for Spurs at RB ffs.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
He literally performs worse for Portugal...
Click to expand...
You sure because the stats say otherwise. All time leading scorer for Portugal. Top scorer in the qualifiers for Portugal. Top scorer in any major tournament for Portugal. Goals in semi finals of major competitions for Portugal. Dug Portugal out of the group stage in 2012 and 2016. Hattrick record holder for Portugal. ALMOST 90 fecking goals for Portugal.
Portugal losing 3-2 90+ minute at a World Cup Goal and hat trick for Portugal. Like please man.

I wanna smoke whatever you're having. He is the same player for Club and Country.

As the great Sir Alex said stick him in any team in the world and you get the same output.

Simply Goat doing Goat things.
 
He won’t retire now. Next year’s Copa is in Argentina.

If he doesn’t win that one, though...:nervous:
 
Pink Moon said:
There's a few factors.

Portugal are a more cohesive team than Argentina. ARG have had 5 managers since Portugal hired theirs.

Portugal's team is better overall than Argentina's. Argentina have better attackers but in every other area of the pitch Portugal trump them.

Rui Patricio > Armani

Semedo, Pepe, Dias, Cancelo > Foyth, Pezzella, Otamendi, Tagliafico

Moutinho, Carvalho, Neves, Bernardo Silva, Guedes, Rafa, Bruno Fernandes > Paredes, De Paul, Guido Pizarro, Acuna, Lo Celso and whatever other sorry bunch they called up this time

Portugal's opposition are generally easier. Their last World Cup qualifying group contained Andorra, Latvia and the Faroe Islands. The one before that had Luxembourg, Israel and Azerbaijan. UEFA's member nations dwarfs CONMEBOL's where Argentina are always having to play good sides like Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Uruguay.

Once they actually get to the World Cup and it's a lottery as to who they play I wouldn't say Ronaldo has performed any better than Messi has. Messi led Argentina to the final in 2014 while Portugal couldn't even get out of a group containing USA and Ghana. Ronaldo had one good game at Euro 2016 and they still won the thing even without him in the final. Without Messi Argentina would be even worse than they are with him which is bloody awful.
Click to expand...
Ok no I am not talking about recently where yes Portugal have finally been producing some good players. I am talking about for a Majority of his career he has had a worse team than ANY team Messi has played with in Argentina.

If you want to talk about competition bar the WC Ronaldo plays in the European Championship which is a more difficult competition to win then the Copa. The WC has been dominated by European teams for the past 15 Years.
 
SportingCP96 said:
You sure because the stats say otherwise. All time leading scorer for Portugal. Top scorer in the qualifiers for Portugal. Top scorer in any major tournament for Portugal. Goals in semi finals of major competitions for Portugal. Dug Portugal out of the group stage in 2012 and 2016. Hattrick record holder for Portugal. ALMOST 90 fecking goals for Portugal.
Portugal losing 3-2 90+ minute at a World Cup Goal and hat trick for Portugal. Like please man.

I wanna smoke whatever you're having. He is the same player for Club and Country.

As the great Sir Alex said stick him in any team in the world and you get the same output.

Simply Goat doing Goat things.
Click to expand...

Sir Alex also said Phil Jones could be one of our greatest ever players. Sometimes he chats nonsense. Of course he'll show bias towards Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has without a doubt performed worse for Portugal than his club teams throughout his career.

If you want to use stats, the stats paint Messi as the superior player, but you'll ignore that.
 
SportingCP96 said:
You sure because the stats say otherwise. All time leading scorer for Portugal. Top scorer in the qualifiers for Portugal. Top scorer in any major tournament for Portugal. Goals in semi finals of major competitions for Portugal. Dug Portugal out of the group stage in 2012 and 2016. Hattrick record holder for Portugal. ALMOST 90 fecking goals for Portugal.
Portugal losing 3-2 90+ minute at a World Cup Goal and hat trick for Portugal. Like please man.

I wanna smoke whatever you're having. He is the same player for Club and Country.

As the great Sir Alex said stick him in any team in the world and you get the same output.

Simply Goat doing Goat things.
Click to expand...

Like I said, Portugal play absolute clowns in their qualifiers like Faroe Islands and Andorra...

They didn't even win a game in the 2016 group stages :lol:

What did he do in the 2014 World Cup group stages? Clint Dempey and Andre Ayew scored more in that group...

Ronaldo is incredible and I hate that I have to put an argument forward that makes it seem like I'm belittling his achievements. I'm not. I'm just pointing out the exaggerations and hypocrisy here.

Oh, and come on, how are you gonna bring up "Ronaldo is the all time scorer for Portugal" to back up him being good for both Portugal and club teams while also trashing Messi's international performances when he's the all time leading scorer for Argentina :lol::lol:
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Sir Alex also said Phil Jones could be one of our greatest ever players. Sometimes he chats nonsense. Of course he'll show bias towards Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has without a doubt performed worse for Portugal than his club teams throughout his career.

If you want to use stats, the stats paint Messi as the superior player, but you'll ignore that.
Click to expand...
Did you ignore everything I just posted? Ronaldo has almost 90 international goals for his country and has led his country though there best EVER period in there history. What are you on about.
 
Pink Moon said:
Like I said, Portugal play absolute clowns in their qualifiers like Faroe Islands and Andorra...

They didn't even win a game in the 2016 group stages :lol:

What did he do in the 2014 World Cup group stages? Clint Dempey and Andre Ayew scored more in that group...

Ronaldo is incredible and I hate that I have to put an argument forward that makes it seem like I'm belittling his achievements. I'm not. I'm just pointing out the exaggerations and hypocrisy here.
Click to expand...
Ya they didn't yet without his goals in the 3-3 game they would have been eliminated.

Look at our team in 2014. Worse then anything Messi has ever played with.
 
Pink Moon said:
What's it like to know you're in the minority with that opinion?
Click to expand...
A majority of people in Germany believe in Hitler in 1938 does that mean they were right? Bad example but you get the point.

Ronaldo has proved he is the best of HIS generation time and time again. The debate was ended in 2016.

A guy who quits on his country can never be considered a GOAT. Most spineless shet I have ever seen.
 
Pink Moon said:
Nani scored the same amount of goals as him though :confused:
Click to expand...
Without his goals in that game they are eliminated. His shot led to the winning goal vs Croatia. Inspired his team in the penalty shootout. Scored the first goal in the Semi finals.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Look at our team in 2014. Worse then anything Messi has ever played with.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, good players will play better when they're surrounded with better players. That obviously applies to Ronaldo too. If the 2014 Portugal team was trash then obviously it would affect Ronaldo's performances.
 
Pink Moon said:
Like I said earlier, good players will play better when they're surrounded with better players. That obviously applies to Ronaldo too. If the 2014 Portugal team was trash then obviously it would affect Ronaldo's performances.
Click to expand...
Obviously. Now based on circumstances where 1 has had the clear better team for a majority of his career who has had the better international career?

Because at Club level you CAN argue they are dead smack even. So that would be the tie breaker no?
 
Fridge chutney said:
You're right, the poll is a bit laughable, given that the results skew heavily in Ronaldo's favour because we're on a Manchester United forum.
Click to expand...
You must have not been here for the Poll fiasco. That Poll lost all credibility after that. When Messi choked per usual and was eliminated after not even showing up to afield the poll was closed. The poll was opened after his first leg performance and closed in his second. Old news.
 
It is not to ask much that the supposed best player of all time wins a trophy bigger than La Liga without an historically great team around him. Just one. Noone's even asking for the World Cup anymore. Just a Copa America.

In 2009 and 2011 he was playing in the best team ever built in the history of football, without him the core of that team won the Euros in 2008, Wold Cup in 2010 and the Euros again in 2012. In 2015 it's up there as the best too with prime Suarez and Neymar making it unstoppable. It shouldn't take a team full of some of the greatest players ever for the supposed greatest of all time to win a title bigger than the league.

He's had loads of chances to do it, loads of times luck was against him but loads of times it was the opposite and he still fell short... with big matches on his feet to be decided. With the teammates and amounts of opportunities he's had, playing in only 3 Champions League finals and winning 0 international trophies isn't good enough.

People can say an individual player doesn't win by himself and that's true, but he's 100% had the necessary help. He's the main man, the player the teams are built around, the leader. If he's the best player of all time he should have that kind of impact because I sure as hell have seen other all time greats doing it. Jordan wouldn't be Jordan without the 6 championships and big moments at big times, same goes for Tom Brady. LeBron wouldn't be LeBron without winning the title with the Cavs... Winning as a team should never be irrelevant when judging individual players, mainly so when you're talking about the star players who have a lot more infuence and responsability on the overall team than anyone else. Winning is the whole purpose they're there for. Leadership, mentality, team chemistry, resilience, etc. are a huge part of team sports that don't appear on the stat sheets.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Obviously. Now based on circumstances where 1 has had the clear better team for a majority of his career who has had the better international career?

Because at Club level you CAN argue they are dead smack even. So that would be the tie breaker no?
Click to expand...

Ronaldo has had the better international career. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise. It's not even close.

This is the thing though, Ronaldo fans only want to talk about trophies. I don't care if Ronaldo wins another 100 trophies. To me, Messi is clearly a better footballer. If you want to argue Ronaldo is a more decorated footballer then go ahead. I wouldn't argue against it.
 
SportingCP96 said:
You must have not been here for the Poll fiasco. That Poll lost all credibility after that. When Messi choked per usual and was eliminated after not even showing up to afield the poll was closed. The poll was opened after his first leg performance and closed in his second. Old news.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't matter, as people shouldn't generally change their opinion on a match by match basis.
 
Peyroteo said:
It is not to ask much that the supposed best player of all time wins a trophy bigger than La Liga without an historically great team around him. Just one. Noone's even asking for the World Cup anymore. Just a Copa America.

In 2009 and 2011 he was playing in the best team ever built in the history of football, without him the core of that team won the Euros in 2008, Wold Cup in 2010 and the Euros again in 2012. In 2015 it's up there as the best too with prime Suarez and Neymar making it unstoppable. It shouldn't take a team full of some of the greatest players ever for the supposed greatest of all time to win a title bigger than the league.

He's had loads of chances to do it, loads of times luck was against him but loads of times it was the opposite and he still fell short... with big matches on his feet to be decided. With the teammates and amounts of opportunities he's had, playing in only 3 Champions League finals and winning 0 international trophies isn't good enough.

People can say an individual player doesn't win by himself and that's true, but he's 100% had the necessary help. He's the main man, the player the teams are built around, the leader. If he's the best player of all time he should have that kind of impact because I sure as hell have seen other all time greats doing it. Jordan wouldn't be Jordan without the 6 championships and big moments at big times, same goes for Tom Brady. LeBron wouldn't be LeBron without winning the title with the Cavs... Winning as a team should never be irrelevant when judging individual players, mainly so when you're talking about the star players who have a lot more infuence and responsability on the overall team than anyone else. Winning is the whole purpose they're there for. Leadership, mentality, team chemistry, resilience, etc. are a huge part of team sports that don't appear on the stat sheets.
Click to expand...
Shhh stop it thats not nice. Messi gets every defense in the book those things dont apply to him. The Goat can quit on his country it's fine. Leave him alone the poor baby.
 
Messi out with Argentina = his team

Messi scores a freekick against Liverpool = goat

Messi loses 4-0 against Liverool = his team

Ronaldo wins the Euros = he did nothing

Ronaldo wins 3 CLs in a row with loads of goals in the knockouts = his team

This is why this thread is a mess
 
Pink Moon said:
Ronaldo has had the better international career. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise. It's not even close.

This is the thing though, Ronaldo fans only want to talk about trophies. I don't care if Ronaldo wins another 100 trophies. To me, Messi is clearly a better footballer. If you want to argue Ronaldo is a more decorated footballer then go ahead. I wouldn't argue against it.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.
 
Peyroteo said:
It is not to ask much that the supposed best player of all time wins a trophy bigger than La Liga without an historically great team around him. Just one. Noone's even asking for the World Cup anymore. Just a Copa America.
Click to expand...

What has Ronaldo win without being surrounded by a great team? And for what it's worth, that Pep Barca team are only considered historically great because of Messi and you're lying if you say otherwise. As great as Xavi and Iniesta were they wouldn't have been as dominant without Messi. He scored 90+ goals in a year ffs.
 
Acheron said:
Wait what? Are they really having a Copa America next year??? :wenger: :lol:
Click to expand...

Indeed. They want to switch to having it the same year as the Euros so are starting next summer. After that it’ll be 2024.
 
Pink Moon said:
Ronaldo has had the better international career. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise. It's not even close.

This is the thing though, Ronaldo fans only want to talk about trophies. I don't care if Ronaldo wins another 100 trophies. To me, Messi is clearly a better footballer. If you want to argue Ronaldo is a more decorated footballer then go ahead. I wouldn't argue against it.
Click to expand...
Being a better player is not on talent alone though. if that is the case then Lebron is the GOAT and Aaron Rodgers is 10x better then Brady.

When discussing GOATS more goes into it then what stats say.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
A good amount.

Plenty of full games available of his to watch on the internet.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I've not seen that much but the bits ice seen did not compare to a say a 21 year old Ronaldo dribbling at full pace.

I just feel it's a bit hipstery to reuse old tiers of players and place players here and there, because those old players I doubt many have actually seen more than 30 minutes of selective footage of.
 
marktan said:
Messi out with Argentina = his team

Messi scores a freekick against Liverpool = goat

Messi loses 4-0 against Liverool = his team

Ronaldo wins the Euros = he did nothing

Ronaldo wins 3 CLs in a row with loads of goals in the knockouts = his team

This is why this thread is a mess
Click to expand...

What about the other side of the coin?

Barca do well = but Xavi! but Iniesta!

Barca/Argentina lose = supposed goat should be doing better!!

Portugal win = Ronaldo goat. I mean, the guy a few posts even came out with "inspired his teammates in a pen shootout as a pro for Ronaldo ffs

Portugal lose = rubbish team (see his 2014 excuse above)
 
NYAS said:
Indeed. They want to switch to having it the same year as the Euros so are starting next summer. After that it’ll be 2024.
Click to expand...
Thats what 4 Copas in 6 years? Insane. I mean it is a smaller competition then the Euros so it is possible to make it happen.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Being a better player is not on talent alone though. if that is the case then Lebron is the GOAT and Aaron Rodgers is 10x better then Brady.

When discussing GOATS more goes into it then what stats say.
Click to expand...

I agree. That's why I like separate GOAT with BOAT. I think Messi is the best footballer of all time. I think he's clearly better than Ronaldo.

LeBron is easily the best basketball player ever but Jordan is easily the GOAT.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.