This is worse than any of Cal?s awful posts on the subject. Well done.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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This is worse than any of Cal?s awful posts on the subject. Well done.
Premier League is the pinnacle of football. It's much much much tougher than any other league, ever. You're not a footballer until you've proven yourself on a hard cold night at Palace etc. I don't think teams like Sevilla, Atletico, Valencia or Villarreal would make it out of The Championship.
Messi is shit, let's be honest. He's one trick pony whose only advantage is that he's terrific at football. Take that away from him and give him Jermaine Pennant ability level and body shape and he will be exactly like Jermaine Pennant.
Effiency may be the wrong word of choice on my behalf,
Im not saying Ronaldo is more efficient then Messi. Im saying that even if Ronaldo was more efficient then Messi, people would still vouch for Messi due his dribbles/chip goals/passes giving a bigger "wow" factor.
No matter if Ronaldo scored 3 goals every week by tapping/heading them in while Messi only scored one a week, the vast majority of people would still say Messi is the better player.
And thats whats wrong in my opinion with the way a lot of people classify someone as "worlds best". We had seasons where Ronaldo absolutely dominated Messi performance wise. Yet Messi won Ballon still, or when he didn't a huge number of people still said he is the best. Even last year when Ronaldo was absolutely phenomenal everyone just said "Messi is still the best, he just had an off season". Thinking like that is just plain wrong.
Else we might aswel just say Ronaldinho was the best footballer in history because of that one season and his entertainment value being sky high.
But Messi is able to ride tackles better than Ronaldo. Let's think about this for a second.
If you think about the defenders in the PL teams that compete in the CL, the majority are strong. The smaller technical players are the attackers. Messi doesn't really compete against those players as he's up the pitch. He goes up against the stronger and bigger players that you are describing the PL has a ton of. When Messi went up against City he played against Milner, Kompany, Kolarov, and Demichelis. When he played against us he went up against Vidic, Rio, and Evra. I don't see how those players aren't physical compared to the other PL teams.
I don't feel like the absolute best players need to prove themselves in other leagues. You're essentially punishing players who are loyal to 1 club. Just imagine how you would feel if some La Liga fan told you Giggs and Scholes need to prove themselves outside of the PL. It's just absurd.
I don't recall Ronaldo dominating more than Messi and failing to win the Balon D'or. As I recall, Ronaldo fans said Messi shouldn't win the Balon D'or in 2012 because Ronaldo won La Liga and point to 2011 as proof that the titles are the only reason Messi won.
Messi in 2012 had 13 more goals and 13 more assists than Ronaldo. He was clearly better despite Real Madrid winning the title.
In 2011 Messi had the same amount of goals and had 11 more assists than Ronaldo while winning the CL and La Liga. The only argument you could make for Ronaldo is that he had 9 more goals in La Liga (Messi had 8 more assists in La Liga), but I typically like to look at all competitions.
People point to Messi being injured because in 2013 he was dominating, but then his injury and him playing through injury significantly harmed his chances of winning again. He was outperforming Ronaldo before that.
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Ronaldo still won the last two Ballon d'Ors and this despite Messi being the same player. As far as I'm concerned when I compare them, I look at their whole careers. The basis of a single season isn't enough
Can someone post Messi's stats for the last 2 seasons? Were they really worse than Ronaldo's?
The only problem is that Ronaldo isn't more skilled, stronger, faster, he doesn't have a better positioning, isn't a better shooter of the ball and he is weaker at taking free kicks.
Messi is the better player. Credit to Ronaldo for not giving up.
Ronaldo is faster though.
Strength is hard to say. Ronaldo has more physical presence but much easier to knock off the ball than Messi.
Ronaldo is faster off the ball perhaps but Messi is quicker on it.
Agreed.
Maybe Ronaldo is faster but on the ball or in traffic Messi is a lot faster.
Credit to Ronaldo for managing to keep up with Messi all these years. I don't know the point of this inane debate anymore.
And Ronaldo didn't? Whilst playing for the most expensively assembled side throughout his Real Madrid career, what are you trying to say here?
You forgot to mention that Messi is also superior in the air, and ofc hotter then Ronaldo <3
I understand his point tough, the play style barcelona plays with the players it has creates 10x more opportunities then Madrid's.
Regardless of how fantastic some players are at Madrid during Ronaldo's career with assisting him, nobody can match the assists given to Messi at Barcelona. Its simply their play style and strength to put him in a dangerous position every single time.
Messi doesn't rely on service, Cristiano does.
Your final sentence applies to Real Madrid, not Barcelona. Their plan is to get him on the ball, to dictate play, not to get a tap in.
I prefer Ronaldo, but Messi is clearly the better player
I would divide into 3 main criteria to decide who is better:
1. End products (direct impact)
- no. of goals and assists
- importance of their goals and assists
2. Performances (indirect impact)
- how well do they perform on the pitch as related to their given role (strikers, wingers, playmakers, midfielders, defenders should all be judged differently)
- quality of their performance
- influence/impact on pitch
3. Achievements (what it matters)
- how successful are they in terms of winning trophies for their team (WC, CL, league titles all counts)
- whether they overachieve or underachieve in respect to the actual level of their team
For 1 alone there's no question both are worthy to be claimed as best player, but since both are equal we need look further to 2 and 3.
In terms of 2, Messi is simply better but Ronaldo isn't as bad as many here think he is, as he is only a striker (or wing forward) and you can't expect striker to go playmaking by himself. He already does his striker role the best (keep running into good position, shown aggressiveness and determination to always find ways to shoot/score, never give up, has been his team driving force up front, deadly in air and inside the box, unplayable in counter attack situation etc). But then Messi is simply brilliant in both goalscoring and playmaking role so there's no contest here for me.
Now with Messi better in 2 and equal in 1, the only chance Ronaldo may turn it around is down to 3. Ultimate purpose in football is always about winning trophies, there's no use if you keep outperforming everyone else but you keep failing to win any trophies (except your teammates are really shite). Now if you could lead a poorer team to great success (aka Maradonna) it will be even better. Pele won't be the same should he failed to win any WC. Di Stefano won't be the same either had he not won any of his 5 European Cups with Real Madrid. If Messi lead Barca to double this season (which is likely) there will be no debate anymore regarding who is the best (this year and over their career so far)
1. End products (direct impact)
- no. of goals and assists
- importance of their goals and assists
2. Performances (indirect impact)
- how well do they perform on the pitch as related to their given role (strikers, wingers, playmakers, midfielders, defenders should all be judged differently)
- quality of their performance
- influence/impact on pitch
3. Achievements (what it matters)
- how successful are they in terms of winning trophies for their team (WC, CL, league titles all counts)
- whether they overachieve or underachieve in respect to the actual level of their team
For 1 alone there's no question both are worthy to be claimed as best player, but since both are equal we need look further to 2 and 3.
In terms of 2, Messi is simply better but Ronaldo isn't as bad as many here think he is, as he is only a striker (or wing forward) and you can't expect striker to go playmaking by himself. He already does his striker role the best (keep running into good position, shown aggressiveness and determination to always find ways to shoot/score, never give up, has been his team driving force up front, deadly in air and inside the box, unplayable in counter attack situation etc). But then Messi is simply brilliant in both goalscoring and playmaking role so there's no contest here for me.
Now with Messi better in 2 and equal in 1, the only chance Ronaldo may turn it around is down to 3. Ultimate purpose in football is always about winning trophies, there's no use if you keep outperforming everyone else but you keep failing to win any trophies (except your teammates are really shite). Now if you could lead a poorer team to great success (aka Maradonna) it will be even better. Pele won't be the same should he failed to win any WC. Di Stefano won't be the same either had he not won any of his 5 European Cups with Real Madrid. If Messi lead Barca to double this season (which is likely) there will be no debate anymore regarding who is the best (this year and over their career so far)
Bingo
Just stop talking
What nonsense is that?
Just stop talking
Is that written that Messi scored 4 times more goals without assists ?
Messi 69% assisted, Ronaldo 58%.
Its not about the marginal difference, its the ignorant reply of the guy above "Messi doesn't rely on service, Cristiano does.
Your final sentence applies to Real Madrid, not Barcelona. Their plan is to get him on the ball, to dictate play, not to get a tap in."
That's all true. Messi can have a great game when his team mates don't...Cristiano struggles. I'm talking about their performances, not goals.
It's amazing that some people are putting down Messi's playmaking/creativity as nothing more than "entertainment value". It has a huge influence on the game in terms of effectiveness too...
How did you get those numbers ? 38/64 and 24/39 are more or less the same.
I don't think you're reading that stat well.
You should only count open play goals. In that case, Ronaldo relies more on service. Penalties and free kicks have nothing to do with relying on service as it's impossible for a player to get service in those instances. There is no way a player can get an assist if their teammate is going for goal on a fk and obviously doing the same with a pen.
14/16 = 87.5% of Ronaldo's open play goals are assisted.
26/34 = 76.5% of Messi's open play goals are assisted.
Are you including penalties as unassisted?
Thats a matter of opinion tbh, i always find Ronaldo is the one that can have a great game (result wise, not saying performance) when his team mates don't. While Messi just goes missing. But when Barcelona is dominating its just Messi everywhere. While when Madrid dominates its mostly Ronaldo/Bale waiting to get launched.
Its their play styles which enforce this. But its normally Ronaldo who decides bad games with a header from a corner, long shot or launch then Messi. Atleast, thats what i think.
And this is best noticed by taking them out of their own "super star teams" and looking at their national teams. Messi is normally completely missing for large parts of the match while Ronaldo is extremely dominant for his national team.
Ronaldo can do it on a cold rainy night in Stoke. Till now, Messi has shown nothing to prove he can.
Ronaldo dominant for his national team ?
All yellow is excluded, and the total is the percentage assisted compared to scored goals.
And random fact, the barcelona team in general just average a lot more assist then the real madrid team (not only ronaldo/messi). Showing that Barcelona's dominant style of play just forces way more chances.
Ronaldo plays for PORTUGAL, which has been a pile of *** for years. It has to play vs EUROPE teams for qualifiers so his vast majority of games is against good teams.
Messi plays for ARGENTINA, which has a shitload of phenomenal players. It plays vs the 2-3 good teams rest is GARBAGE.
Yet they both average the same stats and you don't find Ronaldo dominant for his national team.
You can't include penalties though surely?
Ehh you are comparing the wrong numbers m8, 38 is goals messi scored assisted, the 64 is total assists his barcelona teammates gave. Not the amount of goals he scored.
I'm maybe wrong but 64 represents all the assists in the team, 38 represents all the assists who ended up to Messi, so 59% of Barcelona assists are for Messi, when 61% of Real Madrid assists are for Ronaldo.
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