Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Cal? said:
Yet Ronaldo was the one who won the Balon dor the last 2 years... some people just have short memories...
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My opinion was no different 6 months ago...

Brwned said:
I've not watched a whole lot of Madrid this season but from the little I saw it looks like Ronaldo's better than ever. I'm not sure he'll do it but for me it would be a truly astonishing feat if he managed to end his career with as many Ballon D'ors as Messi. It'd be perhaps the greatest achievement I've ever witnessed in football. Messi for me at his peak was a level above and had so much more to his game because the combination of being a supreme goalscorer and a top class playmaker is something very, very few players manage, and from a subjective point of view that's the pinnacle for me, but if Ronaldo managed to pull back level on Ballon D'ors it would tell you all you need to know about Ronaldo. He's just a relentless competitor, and it's entirely plausible that he could edge ahead of Messi in terms of longevity with the way things are going.
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Or 18 months ago...

Brwned said:
He was also a playmaker, that's the point. The very best are more than brilliant scorers. It's what puts Messi on a different level to Ronaldo.
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...so blaming it in short memories doesn't really cut it. The only thing that has changed is Messi's gotten back to top form and personally I'm delighted about that because what we saw today was a bit special, you have to admit. Or maybe not. Maybe you didn't even enjoy it because you knew all the "Messi fans" were enjoying it so much that you were already getting annoyed at the thought of it. In any case it's the kind of performance you don't really get from Ronaldo. At the end of the day the only people who think Ronaldo is even on the same level are the people who don't appreciate playmaking, IMO. You've openly admitted to that before. Something like this, in your mind, is just as useful as taking a shot from 40 yards and missing because they both result in the same thing.

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Myself and many others see it as a display of vision that's unrivalled in modern football and a display of technique that is so far ahead of Ronaldo it's untrue. We have fundamentally different views on one of the core aspects of football so any kind of "discussion" we have is completely pointless. Particularly when all you do is throw in some bizarre point-scoring comment. I have no idea why you bother...
 
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Bob Loblaw said:
Narrowing Messi down to just goals doesn't do him justice, too. Saying Messi scored two tonight doesn't explain just how good he was.
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Indeed. Being a great goalscorer is only one small part of Messi's overall genius. It's amazing that some (Cal) can't see this.
 
Am I the only one here who doesn't understand this supposed goalscoring advantage that Ronaldo got over Leo? They've scored the same amount of goals, with Messi playing a deeper role than ever. Not only that, people seem to forget that the goalscoring record is actually set by Messi himself, so unless Ronaldo breaks it, its kind of a pointless angle.
 
Cals argument about ballon d'ors is just retarded. Figo won one. Yet his best season doesn't come close to Messi having a disappointing season. You can't just count the awards and imagine there can be parity in that.

Ronaldo has his awards because he picked one up before Messi raised the bar and then when Messis level dropped.

What is beyond dispute is that the top level Messi showed at his best, and still shows, is of a level Ronaldo could never hope to reach.

His only hope was to beat him on longevity and consistency. That didn't happen either. By the time both are retired Messi will be far ahead in numbers and awards as well. But Messi could retire tomorrow and still end as a better player overall than Ronaldo can hope to be.

Greatest 2nd best ever though. Just unlucky to play in the shadow of one of the few in history who could best him like this.
 
Cal? said:
No, I'm saying that it's close enough between them that people have different opinions about who's better, I've always maintained that it's my opinion that Ronaldo is better and I have never tried to force anyone to agree with me. Messi fans in general don't understand the difference between opinions and facts, and just resort to name calling the people who don't agree with them.
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Messi being better is pretty much a fact and not an opinion though. I love Ronaldo, always will, and he deserved the last 2 ballon d'ors as he always produced when he needed to, but he could never do the things Messi does. Messi is just more talented. The last 2 years, Messi had off years, where he struggled with injuries at times, and just wasn't as good as he can be or was. This season he has been back to his best, and maybe even surpassed it. Not only that though, but he's showing it again in the big games, and just putting in outrageous displays. When it comes to goalscoring, there's nothing between them probably, could go either way. There's no doubting though that Messi does so much more in terms of the overall play, I think he averages twice as many touches per game as messi, he can spot a pass and deliver it better then anyone, he can dribble past anyone and it's on a completely different level to Ronaldo.

There was an argument for sure the last few years over who was the better player, because Messi wasn't at his best. At his best though, like he is now, there's no argument over who is the best.
 
Brown Toothpick said:
Am I the only one here who doesn't understand this supposed goalscoring advantage that Ronaldo got over Leo? They've scored the same amount of goals, with Messi playing a deeper role than ever. Not only that, people seem to forget that the goalscoring record is actually set by Messi himself, so unless Ronaldo breaks it, its kind of a pointless angle.
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The goals are just there so the simpletons don't have any significant thing to use against Leo imo, he'd still be greater if he scored 20 goals less than Ronaldo, if we analyse both of their goals, we'd find out that their goals aren't spectacular more than half of the time, which brings overall performances into the question - which puts Leo a level above.
 
leo scoring rate is higher than ronaldos

but hey, if one season ronaldo scores four more goals than messi, ronaldo fans think that that is enough argument to compare them both
 
Vitro said:
So you're admitting that Messi is a better player, yes? I mean if he's been better in 4 out of 7 seasons then he must be better.

Either that or you don't trust the 'football world' and therefore your original (main) point that the two previous ballon d'ors point to Ronaldo being a better player is irrelevant. Go on, pick one.

The problem Cal? is that you come up with arguments you know are bullshit merely to push your agenda. You'll say one thing one day, then completely contradict that point on another. It mystifies me how a person could so overtly act that way and see their own opinion as anywhere close to approaching objective. Either that or you're simply doing it on purpose.
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It's like he's some new wierd sociopath, however it's not in relation to himself but in relation to his idol.
 
Cristiano won the Ballon d´or because he deserved it , because they voted him and because this depends on the collective successes. It is clear who is the best , but this thread sometimes seems to be based on undervaluing Cristiano(penalties, tap ins, behavior,etc) .In my opinion his greatest merit is keep up Messi´s pace , being able to maintain the competition for many years. The debate will continue when he retires because Cristiano has played in two of the best and most popular teams in the world, and although one is technically better than another, many people identify with Cristiano. The best example is this forum
DesiBD said:
Good game from him. Seems to link up well with Chicharito.

Guys, have you seen this? http://www.cr17.com/

A forum dedicated to Ronaldo. Almost as big as the Caf. :eek:
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carvajal said:
Cristiano won the Ballon d´or because he deserved it , because they voted him and because this depends on the collective successes. It is clear who is the best , but this thread sometimes seems to be based on undervaluing Cristiano(penalties, tap ins, behavior,etc) .In my opinion his greatest merit is keep up Messi´s pace , being able to maintain the competition for many years. The debate will continue when he retires because Cristiano has played in two of the best and most popular teams in the world, and although one is technically better than another, many people identify with Cristiano. The best example is this forum
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No-one is under-mining Ronaldo's success, insane footballer, compliments to him for being able to match Messi in terms of stats over the years but there are some who are still so inlove with Ronaldo who refuse to see that Messi is just on another level when he is at his best.
 
carvajal said:
Cristiano won the Ballon d´or because he deserved it , because they voted him and because this depends on the collective successes. It is clear who is the best , but this thread sometimes seems to be based on undervaluing Cristiano(penalties, tap ins, behavior,etc) .In my opinion his greatest merit is keep up Messi´s pace , being able to maintain the competition for many years. The debate will continue when he retires because Cristiano has played in two of the best and most popular teams in the world, and although one is technically better than another, many people identify with Cristiano. The best example is this forum
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What has the forum got to do with anything?
 
Womp said:
No-one is under-mining Ronaldo's success, insane footballer, compliments to him for being able to match Messi in terms of stats over the years but there are some who are still so inlove with Ronaldo who refuse to see that Messi is just on another level when he is at his best.
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Fergies recent comments he seems to be another
 
Womp said:
No-one is under-mining Ronaldo's success, insane footballer, compliments to him for being able to match Messi in terms of stats over the years but there are some who are still so inlove with Ronaldo who refuse to see that Messi is just on another level when he is at his best.
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everyone has their tastes, the reason these comparative threads attract so many comments, I am madridista, I love him being so arrogant and cocky but watching football five minutes you can see who is the best.
why @Eboue , was he a possible transfer? @dxadel , I used it to explain the devotion and affection that many people feel for Cristiano, indirectly causing the debate with no end
 
carvajal said:
everyone has their tastes, the reason these comparative threads attract so many comments, I am madridista, I love him being so arrogant and cocky but watching football five minutes you can see who is the best.
why @Eboue , was he a possible transfer? @dxadel , I used it to explain the devotion and affection that many people feel for Cristiano, indirectly causing the debate with no end
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I get your point but Messi also has a cult following forums,fan clubs etc. a lot of players do
 
In Rainbows said:
No that's not the argument. It isn't a just a case of Messi being more flashy. Apart from superior dribbling ability, Messi has vision that Ronaldo just doesn't have. Those two things make Messi the better player. If Messi isn't scoring goals, vision and dribbling help his team win a game. There are so many games where if Ronaldo isn't scoring he isn't doing much to help his team win the game. Messi on the other hand does not rely on goals like that. He can beat teams with his superior skillset. If Messi's dribbling and vision were inconsistent you could make that argument, but that's not the case.
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I'd agree but still doesn't refute my point. The word 'better' is subjective. You pinpointed attributes that make Messi stand out and those attributes are ones fans pay money to see. Hence he's seen to be the better player.

I don't think you can really compare the two anymore. In the same way you can't compare Xavi with Zidane, or Vidic to Rio. Despite playing in same area of the field, each excel at different thing. Ronaldo, as someone already mentioned, is more of a poacher thus lacks ability to make plays; which Messi as a playmaker, excells at. The only similarities between the two now are that they both score a lot of goals. So I don't think Messi is on "another level" from Ronaldo as they often match on most vital stats. Messi is just better at the things that make football entertaining.

Fwiw I think all direct player comparisons are silly. Football is not tennis.
 
steve zizou said:
I'd agree but still doesn't refute my point. The word 'better' is subjective. You pinpointed attributes that make Messi stand out and those attributes are ones fans pay money to see. Hence he's seen to be the better player.

I don't think you can really compare the two anymore. In the same way you can't compare Xavi with Zidane, or Vidic to Rio. Despite playing in same area of the field, each excel at different thing. Ronaldo, as someone already mentioned, is more of a poacher thus lacks ability to make plays; which Messi as a playmaker, excells at. The only similarities between the two now are that they both score a lot of goals. So I don't think Messi is on "another level" from Ronaldo as they often match on most vital stats. Messi is just better at the things that make football entertaining.

Fwiw I think all direct player comparisons are silly. Football is not tennis.
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this might be one of the most idiotic attemps to defend Ronaldo

well, only Cal can beat you, but he is on another level

in the "stupid arguments" defending Ronaldo history, you are Ronaldo, while Cal is messi
 
steve zizou said:
I'd agree but still doesn't refute my point. The word 'better' is subjective. You pinpointed attributes that make Messi stand out and those attributes are ones fans pay money to see. Hence he's seen to be the better player.

I don't think you can really compare the two anymore. In the same way you can't compare Xavi with Zidane, or Vidic to Rio. Despite playing in same area of the field, each excel at different thing. Ronaldo, as someone already mentioned, is more of a poacher thus lacks ability to make plays; which Messi as a playmaker, excells at. The only similarities between the two now are that they both score a lot of goals. So I don't think Messi is on "another level" from Ronaldo as they often match on most vital stats. Messi is just better at the things that make football entertaining.

Fwiw I think all direct player comparisons are silly. Football is not tennis.
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:lol:

So in short what you're saying is because Messi is 'better' we can't compare the two, and thus he's not better?
 
Marcosdeto said:
this might be one of the most idiotic attemps to defend Ronaldo

well, only Cal can beat you, but he is on another level

in the "stupid arguments" defending Ronaldo history, you are Ronaldo, while Cal is Messi
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:lol::lol::lol: Still 2nd place ffs
 
Ronaldo is the better athlete, Messi is the better footballer.
 
TheNewEra said:
It's laughable it still is, even last year Messi deserved the Balllon D'or, these are stats from last year in La Liga 13/14 season.

Messi superior player, yet still Ronaldo is Ballon D'or winner, Messi has a better world cup, yet Ronaldo still wins it?

It was fully down to the Ballon D'or last year.

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Snip of some of the stats last year, can go look at passing, defensive work, everything, who was superior? Messi was, from an all round footballing perspective he was superior and has been for 7 years (wins on passing, duels, players taken on list goes on).

Messi is just on another planet to Ronaldo, Greatest of all time. Frightening how good he is, greatest of all time.

Not only this but even when Ronaldo won it with United, Messi missed a lot of the season due to a thigh tear against Celtic, where Messi was looking phenomenal in that season.

When Messi is fit, and Messi is playing, Ronaldo is forever in his shadow, and stats don't lie in that regard.
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Just laughable... Since when does having more touches of the ball (more passes) mean being better? You completely ignore the fact that Barca play a much more possession style than Real to find stats that suit your argument. Also as I've pointed out many times before, shot accuracy also means nothing, as instead of scoring if you decide to pass and give the ball away, it makes no difference to shooting it off target.

Ultimately goals decide games, not fancy dribbling.
 
Honestly this isn't even a debate. Messi is and has always been better then Ronaldo as a footballer. I wouldn't put much between them as goal scorers, I might even be charitable and give Ronaldo the edge, but as footballers Messi is miles ahead and the greatest of all time.

This is not an opinion, it's simply a fact. Certain things like art, cinema, food and indeed football all tend to be somewhat subjective, but nonetheless there are certain aspects that can objectively be considered good or bad in each of these fields. Messi wins in virtually every aspect. Sure, you can say it's all down to taste but it really isn't in this scenario. One option is so far ahead of the other that if you say it's down to "taste" then you simply have bad taste. The stats back this up, simply watching the game backs this up. There really is no debate.

I don't say this to demean Ronaldo as I think he's an incredible player with power, work ethic and an indomitable self confidence that helps him to never give up in a game. But he can't hold a candle to Messi's creative genius and that is a simple fact.
 
bosnian_red said:
Messi being better is pretty much a fact and not an opinion though. I love Ronaldo, always will, and he deserved the last 2 ballon d'ors as he always produced when he needed to, but he could never do the things Messi does. Messi is just more talented. The last 2 years, Messi had off years, where he struggled with injuries at times, and just wasn't as good as he can be or was. This season he has been back to his best, and maybe even surpassed it. Not only that though, but he's showing it again in the big games, and just putting in outrageous displays. When it comes to goalscoring, there's nothing between them probably, could go either way. There's no doubting though that Messi does so much more in terms of the overall play, I think he averages twice as many touches per game as messi, he can spot a pass and deliver it better then anyone, he can dribble past anyone and it's on a completely different level to Ronaldo.

There was an argument for sure the last few years over who was the better player, because Messi wasn't at his best. At his best though, like he is now, there's no argument over who is the best.
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So when Ronaldo wins it's because Messi wasn't fit yet when Messi wins it's because he's the bestest ever? :lol:

I have posted ages ago in this thread that Messi hasn't actually missed that many games over those 2 seasons, yet somehow it was injuries or dying manager or not paying taxes or whatever the excuse that he wasn't anywhere near Ronaldo for 2 years.

Somehow when Ronaldo drops his form for a couple of months earlier this year, it's because Messi is amazing, not because he broke up with his long term girlfriend, I'd imagine that has more effect on someone than a multi millionaire not paying taxes.
 
Pentagruel said:
Honestly this isn't even a debate. Messi is and has always been better then Ronaldo as a footballer. I wouldn't put much between them as goal scorers, I might even be charitable and give Ronaldo the edge, but as footballers Messi is miles ahead and the greatest of all time.

This is not an opinion, it's simply a fact. Certain things like art, cinema, food and indeed football all tend to be somewhat subjective, but nonetheless there are certain aspects that can objectively be considered good or bad in each of these fields. Messi wins in virtually every aspect. Sure, you can say it's all down to taste but it really isn't in this scenario. One option is so far ahead of the other that if you say it's down to "taste" then you simply have bad taste. The stats back this up, simply watching the game backs this up. There really is no debate.

I don't say this to demean Ronaldo as I think he's an incredible player with power, work ethic and an indomitable self confidence that helps him to never give up in a game. But he can't hold a candle to Messi's creative genius and that is a simple fact.
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There you go again, another Messi fan not knowing fact from opinion.
 
Cal? said:
Just laughable... Since when does having more touches of the ball (more passes) mean being better? You completely ignore the fact that Barca play a much more possession style than Real to find stats that suit your argument. Also as I've pointed out many times before, shot accuracy also means nothing, as instead of scoring if you decide to pass and give the ball away, it makes no difference to shooting it off target.

Ultimately goals decide games, not fancy dribbling.
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I'd really like to see your brain under a CT scan, Ronaldo is a great player, but Messi is a level above him, he's considerably the best player of all time, and that is saying something.

Statistics show it, not only that but if you watch a football match and understand just what he does in terms of vision, dribbling, ability it is beyond what Ronaldo can do.

Ronaldo is a striker these days, he's a poacher, Messi is the most complete technical football player to have graced a football field.

Messi at his peak, also surpasses what Ronaldo did in his peak, it's a level Ronaldo can't reach a level of consistency Maradona didn't and most likely Pelé because it's so hard to imagine anybody who is that level.
 
Cal? said:
So when Ronaldo wins it's because Messi wasn't fit yet when Messi wins it's because he's the bestest ever? :lol:

I have posted ages ago in this thread that Messi hasn't actually missed that many games over those 2 seasons, yet somehow it was injuries or dying manager or not paying taxes or whatever the excuse that he wasn't anywhere near Ronaldo for 2 years.

Somehow when Ronaldo drops his form for a couple of months earlier this year, it's because Messi is amazing, not because he broke up with his long term girlfriend, I'd imagine that has more effect on someone than a multi millionaire not paying taxes.
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No? Take both of them at their best. There just isn't a contest really, that's what I'm trying to say. Ronaldo fully deserved his last 2 ballon d'ors and he's one of the best ever, probably top 10 of all time. He's not the best though, he just can't do the things Messi can. That's just a fact, there's literally nobody that can deny this. His close control, dribbling past players at will, ability to make chances constantly, always picking out a pass, etc. is all far above Ronaldo. Sure their goalscoring is similar, and Ronaldo has done brilliantly to keep up with Messi, but he just doesn't have the same level of talent. It would be fair enough if he didn't make full use of his talent, and so it didn't make a difference, but he obviously does.

When it comes to Ronaldo and his best attributes, people generally see his goalscoring as being that and his off the ball movement to get into those positions. Messi is just as good pretty much when it comes to that, right? Stats back this up so it's not like it can be argued but I'm sure you will because you hate Messi for whatever reason. There's so many other things in football though then just scoring goals, and Messi is ahead of Ronaldo when it comes to all of those.

"Not anywhere near Ronaldo", come on man, Ronaldo deserved them but don't go over the top. Messi had below par seasons but he was still close to Ronaldo. Awards are heavily influenced by team success and Barca had a few transition years basically, during which Messi also had a season where he spent a bit of time out injured or played through an injury for a long time. During the same time, Real Madrid finally won la decima. You think Ronaldo would have won the Ballon d'or if Ramos hadn't scored that equalizer in the final? I seriously doubt it.
 
Cal? said:
Just laughable... Since when does having more touches of the ball (more passes) mean being better? You completely ignore the fact that Barca play a much more possession style than Real to find stats that suit your argument. Also as I've pointed out many times before, shot accuracy also means nothing, as instead of scoring if you decide to pass and give the ball away, it makes no difference to shooting it off target.

Ultimately goals decide games, not fancy dribbling.
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It means he's more involved in games and does more overall. If you look at football entirely based on goals (incredibly stupid way to look at it), then yeah, they're equal. All other things though, Messi is better. Surely that means he's a better player, at his very best? Do you accept he's more talented in terms of the all around play?
 
dxadel said:
The goals are just there so the simpletons don't have any significant thing to use against Leo imo, he'd still be greater if he scored 20 goals less than Ronaldo, if we analyse both of their goals, we'd find out that their goals aren't spectacular more than half of the time, which brings overall performances into the question - which puts Leo a level above.
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I think you have been undervaluing the goalscoring part too much here. If both score 20-30 goals only I would agree. But we are talking about 50-60 goals plus here, in almost every season of top level football they played, there isn't anyone else in past 30-40 years can possibly dream of doing that. Maybe we are all spoiled after watching them doing it for so many years.
But I get your point, yes Messi playmaking part is almost as impressive as his goalscoring part.
 
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it's really sad that you all are harassing Cal? for standing up for what he believes in. I too know ronaldo is better overall and it's not only for his performance in La Liga. He has excelled in 2 different leagues as compared to Messi who has only been stuck in one league. Ronaldo is a predator in the air. Has Messi even ever score from a header ? Ronaldo is a beast where free kicks are concerned. He's also much faster than Messi. You all keep saying he's older than Messi, I would like to see how well Messi performs when he's Ronaldo's age.
Ronaldo was cultivated on English soil in the English league so that ultimately makes him better in my opinion. He's also a former Red and even though he can be a twat at times I'll always respect him as a player for that. Isn't he better internationally also. I'm not sure but I think he has more international goals than Messi ? Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I always tend get annoyed by the arguments why Messi is better then Ronaldo. (and vica versa)

People rate Messi mostly for his dribbles and passing. Yet, why is this more important then aerial strength, his skills, speed and positioning, shot, strength? Sure one is more entertaining then the other but its kind of biased isn't it?

Benzema's dribble and passing is far superior to that of Drogba in his prime. Is Benzema a better player then Drogba who scored more, was godlike in the air and has phenomenal strength and positioning?

The one who performs best at the end and wins the titles is the best player in the world for me. Not the one who can dribble, longshot, do tricks the best.

Messi is edging it atm, but lets be honest here he was absolutely invisible for 77 minutes tonight, yet people act like he played fantastic.
 
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