Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Shinjch]

Has this been posted yet?

And to think people think this debate is a tough one to call

He is mind-bogglingly good. From another planet.

 

[MJJ]

I literally said Argentina is better but they don’t compete in the euros. But don’t let facts get in the way of busting out the

This is such revisionism. Portugal were always considered one of the better national teams in Europe and had about the same level of prestige as Spain before Spain won 3 major trophies in a row. Good but underachieving.

Figo, Deco, Rui Costa just to name a few.

The year before Ronaldo made his debut, Portugal were ranked top 5 in the world. That’s more than enough to reasonably challenge for Euro titles without having to attribute it to Ronaldo.

In Euro 2000 they very nearly made the final, only losing to a golden goal penalty against eventual winners France in the semis. After having crushed the group of death containing Germany, England and Romania winning all 3 games.

Yeah, but Argentina doesn’t compete in the Euros. Portugal has always been one of the bigger football nations in Europe, so it’s not that wild that Ronaldo managed to ”win” 1 in 4 attempts.

I really wouldn’t put that much stock in winning a Euro from the sidelines, just as I wouldn’t if Messi won 1 Copa.

Greece won a Euro. And no one cares about the players that did it. Rightfully so.

Here you go,

 

[Cal?]

Just a few hours to go now, hopefully Messi keeps up his CL QF form

 

[Saffron]

Here you go,

Where do I say Portugal are better than Argentina?

I don’t. Someone literally asked me if Argentina was a bigger football country than Portugal and I said yes. It’s in one of the posts you quoted.

 

[SportingCP96]

Imagine the richest club in the world, selling the greatest player of all time to a direct CL rival for 100M, in a day and age when a player like Neymar goes for 220M.

Wait, that never happened, because RM just sold CR7.

That should tell you everything TBH, IMO it is simply common sense. When the supposed GOAT supposedly single handedly gives you 3 CL trophies in a row you dont sell him, at least not while he is still putting up excelent numbers. IMO thats clear indication that even Real Madrid knew, deep inside, that he wasnt as good as people think he is in here, AKA GOAT level.

I guarantee you right now that PSG could come knocking on Barca's door with 500M euros in hand trying to sign Messi, and Barca would still laugh at that offer.

Anyway, to the guy laughing at the whoscored ratings, i mean have you read the stuff that gets posted in this thread?

Just last week there were like 10 pages dedicated to what players from the past have said about Messi and CR7. The week after that people ITT went 20 pages arguing about who had the best teams on which years, deeply analyzing every year's squad, the coaches, the national team competitions, the Onze D' Or (still dont know what that is, havent cared enough to research it).

Yet someone posts individual player ratings tracked by a neutral source, who clearly show how Messi>false GOAT, and yeah its a laughable argument. I invite you to see any game, and then check the ratings that whoscored posts for it, and 99% of the time it will be an accurate representation of how the players performed.

And i didnt even post the ratings for La Liga, which Messi and a few other players have performed way better than CR7, but thatd be a waste of time anyway since the greatness of a player is rated 100% only on the quarter finals of the Champions League from 2014-2018.

Because one is their prodigal son who came thru their youth academy and the other was an outsider who never got as much love for that reason.

What it should show you is that the guy who won you 3 CL In a row leaves and you get knocked out in the first round while he potentially is on the way to another semi final.

 

[MJJ]

Where do I say Portugal are better than Argentina?

I don’t. Someone literally asked me if Argentina was a bigger football country and I said yes. It’s in one of the posts you quoted.

Oh I was laughing at your posts.

 

[Black Adder]

Just a few hours to go now, hopefully Messi keeps up his CL QF form

Thanks Cal, you know what you just did!

 

[SportingCP96]

The general consensus among football fans is definitely that Messi is better. I think I've only ever met one person who preferred Ronaldo, and I've met football fans from numerous countries.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the majority are right. Messi is better to watch play and an easier person to like than Ronaldo is, it's no surprise that he would be the people's choice.

I have heard many people say this exact argument when deciding who is better " Ronaldo is a prick and Messi is a nice guy so I like Messi"

 

[matt10000]

Messi or Ronaldo?

Maybe the question should be if we could have either on a free for next season who would you pick?

 

[Zehner]

Isn’t ironic that when Ronaldo produces superior numbers, Messi fans dismiss it and say that they don’t convey the full story and how Messi is much more than numbers. Yet, this season when his numbers are superior, it’s now not even a debate because of them: completely ignoring the fact that Ronaldo has changed teams, is adapting to a new league with different players with a completely different playing style (much more defensive) - whereas Messi has been playing in a side under team dynamics that have been tailor made for him for years and years now, alongside players that know and understand his every move like their own name (such as alba).

What's ironic exactly? Someone says individual A can only compete with individual B in terms of stats. Then one season later, individual A's stats can't compete anymore with individual B's. If A can't even keep up with B in terms of stats anymore and was inferior in every other area, he's lost the one thing that spoke for him.

I don't care too much about that, personally, but the guy you're citing doesn't contradict himself, the logic is fine.

 

[Saffron]

Oh I was laughing at your posts.

So you admit that you were lying in the first place. Liar.

 

[Black Adder]

I have heard many people say this exact argument when deciding who is better " Ronaldo is a prick and Messi is a nice guy so I like Messi"

It's just media picture of them 2, although Cristiano doesn't help himself with statements like "they booed me because I'm rich, handsome and great player"

 

[MJJ]

So you admit that you were lying in the first place. Liar.

Misremembering

 

[SportingCP96]

It's just media picture of them 2, although Cristiano doesn't help himself with statements like "they booed me because I'm rich, handsome and great player"

I get it though he comes off as a prick but even if this guy killed 3 people(dramatic example I know) we are talking about footballing ability not how they are and to say someone is better just because one guy is nicer then the other is just stupid.

 

[Black Adder]

I get it though he comes off as a prick but even if this guy killed 3 people(dramatic example I know) we are talking about footballing ability not how they are and to say someone is better just because one guy is nicer then the other is just stupid.

I agree with you, that's why I wrote that's media picture because people nowdays are influenced by media more than ever. Messi is portrayed as super nice, while Cristiano is arrogant, if you write that several times people will start beliave that when in reallity we know nothing about them. Although one is angel and other is devil somehow both managed to get in problems with paying taxes, funny that.

 

[MrEleson]

What's ironic exactly? Someone says individual A can only compete with individual B in terms of stats. Then one season later, individual A's stats can't compete anymore with individual B's. If A can't even keep up with B in terms of stats anymore and was inferior in every other area, he's lost the one thing that spoke for him.

I don't care too much about that, personally, but the guy you're citing doesn't contradict himself, the logic is fine.

No when Ronaldo's numbers equalled or bettered Messi's in the past (especially in the CL); excuses were made for why that was the case and how Messi's impact for his team in those competitions can't be quantified. Now the numbers alone are enough to say Messi is better irrespective of everything else.

First you want to give Ronaldo credit over Messi for switching leagues and ”seeking a new challenge”, and then when he fails to replicate the form from when he had a custom built Madrid team around him you dismiss it for the exact same reason.

Lesson number 1 in the Cult of Ronaldo: everything speaks in favour of Ronaldo.

Except he hasn't failed to replicate his form at all. His numbers may have dropped due to the nature of the game in Italy and the playing style of Juve but I'd argue he's been even sharper and more consistent on the whole than the last 2 or so seasons at least.

 

[Rito]

Is CR7 a cocaine addict?
Did he get into multiple fights, kung fu kicking opposition players and getting himself suspended from the league, plus multiple other actions that showed a clear lack of discipline
Does he drink every night and parties every weekend?
Did Real Madrid change their training schedule from the mornings to the afternoons because CR7 would wake up every morning with hangover?
Did Maradona won 3 CLs in a row and became the absolute, no question best player of all time for Barcelona?


I mean, i get what its like to argue with CR7 fans, but even you guys should know better than to compare CR7 to Maradona. It isnt even close, one is a professional and treats his body like a temple, the other one was the complete opposite and thought himself to be bigger than the club.

However, selling the greatest of all time for 100M on this day and age, while he is still playing at his best level to a direct CL competitor and a often CL semifinalist, is in no way shape or form a good deal. Selling CR7, however, it is.

Now dont get me wrong, being sold for 100M at 33 speaks of CR7's greatness, we are talking about a top 5 of all time player IMO. Just not the GOAT.

Tldr

Your own camp has rejected your argument. This is even better than the onze D'or one

 

[MalcolmTucker]

No when Ronaldo's numbers equalled or bettered Messi's in the past (especially in the CL); excuses were made for why that was the case and how Messi's impact for his team in those competitions can't be quantified. Now the numbers alone are enough to

It's not the numbers alone.

Messi has always performed better than Ronaldo beyond what stats tell you and the only reason they were compared was because Ronaldo scored a similar amount of goals. Now he can't keep up with Messi's stats either and he's in a weaker league with a more dominant team. Then again why am I arguing with you, you were genuinely arguing that Ronaldo and Messi are similar in creativity

 

[MrEleson]

Then again why am I arguing with you, you were genuinely arguing that Ronaldo and Messi are similar in creativity

When was I arguing about their creativity?

 

[Cal?]

It's not the numbers alone.

Messi has always performed better than Ronaldo beyond what stats tell you and the only reason they were compared was because Ronaldo scored a similar amount of goals. Now he can't keep up with Messi's stats either and he's in a weaker league with a more dominant team. Then again why am I arguing with you, you were genuinely arguing that Ronaldo and Messi are similar in creativity

10/15 years the football world votes Ronaldo the better player, yet the Messi brigade knows best.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

When was I arguing about their creativity?

I think I may have got you confused with Prometheus - apologies

I assume you think Messi is more creative than Ronaldo then?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Oh man. Why did I dip my toes in this thread. It’s fecking bonkers...

 

[Zehner]

10/15 years the football world votes Ronaldo the better player, yet the Messi brigade knows best.

The Ballon D'Or isn't given to the best player.

 

[Rito]

10/15 years the football world votes Ronaldo the better player, yet the Messi brigade knows best.

They are blind ( no eye test criteria for BDor)

 

[KirkDuyt]

Isn’t ironic that when Ronaldo produces superior numbers, Messi fans dismiss it and say that they don’t convey the full story and how Messi is much more than numbers. Yet, this season when his numbers are superior, it’s now not even a debate because of them: completely ignoring the fact that Ronaldo has changed teams, is adapting to a new league with different players with a completely different playing style (much more defensive) - whereas Messi has been playing in a side under team dynamics that have been tailor made for him for years and years now, alongside players that know and understand his every move like their own name (such as alba).

Yes and isn't it double ironic that vice versa the Ronaldo fans do the exact same thing citing the exact things you mention after the bolded sentence.

Messi and Ronaldo are both shite, Tadic will show where it's at tonight.

 

[Ibragol]

I find the discussion whether Messi or Ronaldo is the best is quite lame. They have different styles but are both out-of-this-world great, and it's a privilege watching them play. However, I saw some stats about Ronaldo that was just mind boggling:

Ronaldo could play 400 more games for Real without scoring a single goal and then has the same goal ratio as club legend Raùl. Sets things in perspective.

 

[Pow]

They are blind ( no eye test criteria for BDor)

Balon dors a joke. No one can seriously watch football and say there are 4 better footballers than messi in the world right now.

 

[MJJ]

Balon dors a joke. No one can seriously watch football and say there are 4 better footballers than messi in the world right now.

Its all about the onzo d'or.

 

[kouroux]

Yes and isn't it double ironic that vice versa the Ronaldo fans do the exact same thing citing the exact things you mention after the bolded sentence.

Messi and Ronaldo are both shite, Tadic will show where it's at tonight.

Amen

 

[Cal?]

The Ballon D'Or isn't given to the best player.

If one player performs better 10 out of 15 years, perhaps there's a simple reason for that.

He's the better player!

 

[Tostao_80]

Balon dors a joke. No one can seriously watch football and say there are 4 better footballers than messi in the world right now.

Winning the Balon Dor doesn't mean that the voter thinks that you're a better player, just that they think that another player had a better "year". Do you honestly think that those that voted for Luka also believe at the same time that Luka is better than Messi? Not a chance. He had a successful year where he played really well (deservedly so).
Look at Paul Scholes. 5 times nominated and NOT A SINGLE VOTE. Is that reflective of what the voters really thought of Scholes as a player? Did the voters really think that Gerrard and Lampard were much better than Scholes because they got many more votes?
Infact, France Football said in 1995 that if everyone was eligible as far back as the 60s, the mighty Diego would only have won it only twice (Pele 7 times).
Platini ended up winning it thrice in comparison. Would Platini have been considered greater?

 

[Cal?]

They are blind ( no eye test criteria for BDor)

Exactly, all those journalists, managers and footballers voted based on stats and never watched a football game.

 

[Saffron]

Exactly, all those journalists, managers and footballers voted based on stats and never watched a football game.

Why is it always you Ronaldo brigadists who make sarcastic oneliners? I don’t think MJJ has made a single earnest reply in this thread for example. Always Trump level zingers that aren’t even witty.

You can always tell which side of a debate has the untenable position by looking for how often they deflect and distract.

 

[Zehner]

If one player performs better 10 out of 15 years, perhaps there's a simple reason for that.

He's the better player!

See, that's why people call you Trump. 15 years ago Messi was 15/16 (!). I don't care enough to look up the posituons but who reached a better position outside of the top 10 or whatever is even more irrelevant than who won this stupid prize. What's the point of such stupid populistic attempts? There's no election for you to win here.

Moreover, it doesn't go to the best player but to the best/most popular player of the team that won the biggest trophy. And since I know what's coming: No, I'm not saying that just because Cristiano could up with Messi in the last years. I'm hating on the Ballon D'Or ever since Cannavaro won that joke of an award ahead of Ronaldinho.

 

[MJJ]

Why is it always you Ronaldo brigadists who make sarcastic oneliners? I don’t think MJJ has made a single earnest reply in this thread for example. Always Trump level zingers that aren’t even witty.

You can always tell which side of a debate has the untenable position by looking for how often they deflect and distract.

Hey buddy I gave a fan club, do you? Where my groupy at @zclap

 

[Cal?]

Why is it always you Ronaldo brigadists who make sarcastic oneliners? I don’t think MJJ has made a single earnest reply in this thread for example. Always Trump level zingers that aren’t even witty.

You can always tell which side of a debate has the untenable position by looking for how often they deflect and distract.

The Messi brigade and their struggle to grasp the difference between facts and opinions is staggering.

See, that's why people call you Trump. 15 years ago Messi was 15/16 (!). I don't care enough to look up the posituons but who reached a better position outside of the top 10 or whatever is even more irrelevant than who won this stupid prize. What's the point of such stupid populistic attempts? There's no election for you to win here.

Moreover, it doesn't go to the best player but to the best/most popular player of the team that won the biggest trophy. And since I know what's coming: No, I'm not saying that just because Cristiano could up with Messi in the last years. I'm hating on the Ballon D'Or ever since Cannavaro won that joke of an award ahead of Ronaldinho.

You lot are more than happy to credit him with the La Liga 04/05 & 05/06 and CL 06, yet somehow when it comes to Ballon D'ors, 2005 and 2006 is to be ignored.

You're just so transparent about it, you hate the Ballon D'or now its 5-5 (should have been 5-6), but somehow when it was 4-1 to Messi, it was the most logically awarded award and proves beyond doubt the greatest of Messi.

 

[Tostao_80]

Exactly, all those journalists, managers and footballers voted based on stats and never watched a football game.

This really isn't a hard point to fathom. Journalists, managers and footballers may have voted Cristiano more than Leo in 10 of the 15 years, but they still overall consider Leo the better player.
Case in point. Steven Gerrard voted for Cristiano ahead of Leo in 2013. Guess what he said in 2016? He said Leo was the best ever.

Balon Dor voting doesn't equal better player. Next you'll be saying Gattuso was better than Scholes because he "had more Balon Dor votes".
Utter madness.

 

[Zehner]

The Messi brigade and their struggle to grasp the difference between facts and opinions is staggering.

You lot are more than happy to credit him with the La Liga 04/05 & 05/06 and CL 06, yet somehow when it comes to Ballon D'ors, 2005 and 2006 is to be ignored.

You're just so transparent about it, you hate the Ballon D'or now its 5-5 (should have been 5-6), but somehow when it was 4-1 to Messi, it was the most logically awarded award and proves beyond doubt the greatest of Messi.

Generalisation now, Trump would be proud of you "You lot", "Messi brigade", yada yada

I did never credit Messi credit for those titles nor did I ever give two fecks about the Ballon D'Or.

 

[Cal?]

This really isn't a hard point to fathom. Journalists, managers and footballers may have voted Cristiano more than Leo in 10 of the 15 years, but they still overall consider Leo the better player.
Case in point. Steven Gerrard voted for Cristiano ahead of Leo in 2013. Guess what he said in 2016? He said Leo was the best ever.

Balon Dor voting doesn't equal better player. Next you'll be saying Gattuso was better than Scholes because he "had more Balon Dor votes".
Utter madness.

You actually went through the votes?

If one player performs better 10 out of 15 years, perhaps there's a simple reason for that.

He's the better player!

 

[Saffron]

The Messi brigade and their struggle to grasp the difference between facts and opinions is staggering.

You lot are more than happy to credit him with the La Liga 04/05 & 05/06 and CL 06, yet somehow when it comes to Ballon D'ors, 2005 and 2006 is to be ignored.

You're just so transparent about it, you hate the Ballon D'or now its 5-5 (should have been 5-6), but somehow when it was 4-1 to Messi, it was the most logically awarded award and proves beyond doubt the greatest of Messi.

You think Messi being better than peak Ronaldinho at 18 according to AVB and his professional Chelsea scouts means nothing because peak Ronaldinho wasn’t that good anyway

I don’t know when you created your account but I would love to see your posts from 2005 or early 2006, pretty sure you considered Ronaldinho the unrivalled best player in the world then too.

Meanwhile Ronaldo was doing stepovers and losing the ball a lot while being older than Messi