Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Vitro said:
I'm sorry, but does that count for less than Ronaldo's? A goal is a goal is a goal.
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Why not give the plaudits to the guy who passed it to Messi then? He put Messi in the position for Suarez to be in the position to head the ball off target on to Shaw to score an own goal. Why stop there? Why not go further back?

Don't get me wrong, I think Messi is more talented than Ronaldo but you cant say Barca won tonight because of him.
 
RyRy11 said:
Why not give the plaudits to the guy who passed it to Messi then? He put Messi in the position for Suarez to be in the position to head the ball off target on to Shaw to score an own goal. Why stop there? Why not go further back?

Don't get me wrong, I think Messi is more talented than Ronaldo but you cant say Barca won tonight because of him.
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Well, if it's the other way round people do.

I think he had a pretty shit game though and one good play doesn't change that. I happily admit it because you shouldn't move the goal posts. The pass was from Busquets by the way and was absolutely brillant. Messi's cross was even better IMO, he almost played it with his back towards Suarez.

Peyroteo would also praise Messi's great run to receive the Busquet's pass ;)
 
Peyroteo said:
Didn't watch the game so can't comment on Messi's performance.

What I can say is that I don't remember Messi playing a match of football one time in his whole career in the circumstances Ronaldo had to play tonight. Stuck in his own half for 80% of the match, midfield completely dominated... a lot harder to make something happen that way.
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Not surprised to hear that in the slightest, Juve midfield is way too weak to win the competition. I think they are going to get destroyed by City if they get past Ajax in the reverse leg.

Coming to the main thread, Messi had a poor game. A 21yo kid Scott McTominay kept him quiet which was possibly the only positive from tonight. Don't understand the praise for their goal either? The pass which put Messi through was more critical to opening our defenders up which ruined their position and the shape. Goal was also avoidable if Shaw were more brave.
 
Kush said:
Not surprised to hear that in the slightest, Juve midfield is way too weak to win this. I think they are going to get destroyed by City if they get past in the reverse leg.

Coming to the main thread, Messi had a poor game. A 21yo kid Scott McTominay kept him quiet which was possibly the only positive from tonight. Don't understand the praise for their goal either? The pass which put Messi through was more critical to opening our defenders up which ruined their position and the shape. Goal was also avoidable if Shaw were more brave.
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We had 3 defenders and not one was smart enough to pick up Suarez, I wouldn't say it was anything ground breaking more poor defending.
 
RyRy11 said:
Why not give the plaudits to the guy who passed it to Messi then? He put Messi in the position for Suarez to be in the position to head the ball off target on to Shaw to score an own goal. Why stop there? Why not go further back?

Don't get me wrong, I think Messi is more talented than Ronaldo but you cant say Barca won tonight because of him.
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Well it's a team game so very rarely, if ever is someone fully responsible for any goal. He had a terrible game, and didn't contribute enough but it would be wrong to say he contributed nothing which is what I was initially responding to.
 
Vitro said:
Well it's a team game so very rarely, if ever is someone fully responsible for any goal. He had a terrible game, and didn't contribute enough but it would be wrong to say he contributed nothing which is what I was initially responding to.
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Fair enough
 
Didnt see the Barca game, but Ronaldo's evolution into Gerd Müller is now complete. You might as well just give him a chair when the ball's not near him.
 
Kush said:
Not surprised to hear that in the slightest, Juve midfield is way too weak to win the competition. I think they are going to get destroyed by City if they get past Ajax in the reverse leg.

Coming to the main thread, Messi had a poor game. A 21yo kid Scott McTominay kept him quiet which was possibly the only positive from tonight. Don't understand the praise for their goal either? The pass which put Messi through was more critical to opening our defenders up which ruined their position and the shape. Goal was also avoidable if Shaw were more brave.
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The run forced the pass. He went across our back line with it which pulled our defenders out of position and left them all clueless as to who was marking who. He was quiet overall but that was a great bit of play.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Didnt see the Barca game, but Ronaldo's evolution into Gerd Müller is now complete. You might as well just give him a chair when the ball's not near him.
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He was more involved in the build up of attacks than any other Juve forward bar Douglas Costa when he came on.

As soon as they took out Mandzukic and started hoofing balls to him surrounded by 6 Ajax players then there isn't much he can do besides standing there and pray the midfield can escape the press once in every 5 or so attempts.

Would have been a much easier game for him if he was playing for Ajax.
 
2mufc0 said:
We had 3 defenders and not one was smart enough to pick up Suarez, I wouldn't say it was anything ground breaking more poor defending.
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You notice how many defenders get dragged to the first post with Messi, freeing Suarez?



Something similar happened in Ronaldo's goal today, not only he takes a line that messes with Ajax' defensive swaps, he even points Cancelo where to send the ball, even when these guys don't have an amazing game, little details like the pull they have in defenders helps their teams a lot.
 
Peyroteo said:
He was more involved in the build up of attacks than any other Juve forward bar Douglas Costa when he came on.

As soon as they took out Mandzukic and started hoofing balls to him surrounded by 6 Ajax players then there isn't much he can do besides standing there and pray the midfield can escape the press once in every 5 or so attempts.

Would have been a much easier game for him if he was playing for Ajax.
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Tbh being compared with Muller is a honour don’t know if it was @KirkDuyt intention or no, but a couple of time ago watched 2 or 3 games from him and was surprised with the fact that he was much more than a box poacher. Certainly not a Jardel. Regarding how Juventus plays scoring 5 goals for them is the equivalent of scoring 10 for Madrid.
 
I went to the Man Utd-Barca game live and honestly at certain points I didn't really remember Messi was playing. He had a few nice touches and flick ons but that was it really. When Barca didn't have the ball, he barely looked like his mind was even on the game.
 
This was not a good game from Messi by any means but without him that goal doesn’t happen
 
Johnny Love said:
I wouldn't go that far. Maybe on some occasions but more often than not he's much more involved in the play and build up.
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Understandable as they have different roles and attributes. I actually said on a previous post I give more value to Ronaldo scoring 5 goals for Juve on the Champions league than 10 for Madrid. Not surprised if Ajax reaches the semis.
 
Daysleeper said:
This was not a good game from Messi by any means but without him that goal doesn’t happen
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The only great Barcelona performance under Valverde away from home regarding the Champions League maybe was at Spurs. Even meaningless games away at Sporting or Olympiakos Barcelona was so average that you could see they actually won those matches based on having better players. Honestly expecting Messi to show up on the next one.
 
I've always been in the Messi camp but performances like tonight's make me see some logic in the arguments @Peyroteo puts forth. With Messi, it often seems like he has a limited impact on a match when he isn't doing something magical in possession. Now because he is so much better than everyone else in possession and because Barca often dominates matches territorially and in possesion, he usually gets enough of the ball in dangerous areas to make a difference even without much movement or effort on his part.

But in matches like tonight's where Barca are on the back foot a bit and aren't dominating completely, those deficiencies in his off the ball movement and his loss of pace over recent years become more apparent. It's one thing to say that Messi is the best dribbler/passer/finisher on the planet but having the potential to do those things with the ball doesn't count for much without the movement or pace to receive possession and find space to actually demonstrate that ability.
 
SCP said:
The only great Barcelona performance under Valverde away from home regarding the Champions League maybe was at Spurs. Even meaningless games away at Sporting or Olympiakos Barcelona was so average that you could see they actually won those matches based on having better players. Honestly expecting Messi to show up on the next one.
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Can’t disagree with anything you said. Even under Pep Barca had been mostly lacklustre away from home. I’m hoping some of today’s match can be chalked up to playing a gruelling match against Atletico only a few days ago. At least the away goal happened.

Hoping for a significantly better performance next week.
 
I think he played really well until Smalling broke his nose, he should have been replaced but he is the best player ever so he can change the game anytime, at least Valverde thinks that way.
 
Still can't get over the amazing QF performance by Messi. That cross for Suarez was out of this world stuff and absolutely shows why he's the GOAT. This was a perfect example where he literally does nothing but contributes immensely to the game as per the eye-test. 1 assist, 1 key pass, continuing after 1 bloody nose; absolutely the stuff of legends. All this while playing against worldies like Mctominay, Smalling, Lindelof, etc. And people still wonder how he would have performed in EPL, week-in, week-out when he's "dismantling" Engllish teams over the years.

Ronaldo, on the other hand, just scored a goal. Meh. Glorified Inzaghi.
 
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Daysleeper said:
Can’t disagree with anything you said. Even under Pep Barca had been mostly lacklustre away from home. I’m hoping some of today’s match can be chalked up to playing a gruelling match against Atletico only a few days ago. At least the away goal happened.

Hoping for a significantly better performance next week.
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Regardless of what happens next week, one thing is for sure, Barca cannot win on away goals. :)
 
mdvmia said:
I've always been in the Messi camp but performances like tonight's make me see some logic in the arguments @Peyroteo puts forth. With Messi, it often seems like he has a limited impact on a match when he isn't doing something magical in possession. Now because he is so much better than everyone else in possession and because Barca often dominates matches territorially and in possesion, he usually gets enough of the ball in dangerous areas to make a difference even without much movement or effort on his part.

But in matches like tonight's where Barca are on the back foot a bit and aren't dominating completely, those deficiencies in his off the ball movement and his loss of pace over recent years become more apparent. It's one thing to say that Messi is the best dribbler/passer/finisher on the planet but having the potential to do those things with the ball doesn't count for much without the movement or pace to receive possession and find space to actually demonstrate that ability.
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Cheers. That’s why I say the circumstances of the game are very important when judging them. If you’re the best player in the history of he sport with the ball at your feet then playing in a team that pretty much always dominates possession and can consistently get him the ball in advanced areas is a a big advantage.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Messi play in a team that played like Juve did yesterday for example, with him stuck 80% of the match in his own half chasing the ball while his team’s midfield gets dominated. In the days this happens even to a small degree then it’s a lot harder for him.

There will be days when Messi will be on fire and Ronaldo will be underwhelming of course, it could easily happen on Tuesday for example. But as a general rule, it’s beyond obvious that Ronaldo shows up a lot more often than Messi in these games which cannot be seen as something irrelevant when this is the main trophy their teams are going for. Year after year Ronaldo comes up with some of his best performances of the season in these matches and Messi with some of his worst. It is not luck. It is not a coincidence. It happens too often for that to be the case.

It has nothing to do with being a bottler or lacking mentality either like some claim, it has to do with their different characteristics and how they fit into these sorts of games.
 
Peyroteo said:
Cheers. That’s why I say the circumstances of the game are very important when judging them. If you’re the best player in the history of he sport with the ball at your feet then playing in a team that pretty much always dominates possession and can consistently get him the ball in advanced areas is a a big advantage.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Messi play in a team that played like Juve did yesterday for example, with him stuck 80% of the match in his own half chasing the ball while his team’s midfield gets dominated. In the days this happens even to a small degree then it’s a lot harder for him.

There will be days when Messi will be on fire and Ronaldo will be underwhelming of course, it could easily happen on Tuesday for example. But as a general rule, it’s beyond obvious that Ronaldo shows up a lot more often than Messi in these games which cannot be seen as something irrelevant when this is the main trophy their teams are going for. Year after year Ronaldo comes up with some of his best performances of the season in these matches and Messi with some of his worst. It is not luck. It is not a coincidence. It happens too often for that to be the case.

It has nothing to do with being a bottler or lacking mentality either like some claim, it has to do with their different characteristics and how they fit into these sorts of games.
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That's a good point, I just wanna add that having Messi makes it much easier to retain position therefore you would rarely see his teams have less ball possession than their opponent. He doesn't make an entire team of course but he plays a big role. Last night changed nothing in my view, I'll always the type of footballer Messi but Ronaldo is the greatest goalscorer in the CL.
 
SCP said:
Tbh being compared with Muller is a honour don’t know if it was @KirkDuyt intention or no, but a couple of time ago watched 2 or 3 games from him and was surprised with the fact that he was much more than a box poacher. Certainly not a Jardel.
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Müller is the lazy go to example for a striker who supposedly just lumbers around near the box and scores a lot. In this thread he's invariably used as a stick to beat Ronaldo with. One faction will claim "Ronaldo is just like Müller", the other will say "Ronaldo is nothing like Müller".

It's nonsense, as you said, but unfortunately it will be his legacy in football folklore forever.
 
Rito said:
Still can't get over the amazing QF performance by Messi. That cross for Suarez was out of this world stuff and absolutely shows why he's the GOAT. This was a perfect example where he literally does nothing but contributes immensely to the game as per the eye-test. 1 assist, 1 key pass, continuing after 1 bloody nose; absolutely the stuff of legends. All this while playing against worldies like Mctominay, Smalling, Lindelof, etc. And people still wonder how he would have performed in EPL, week-in, week-out when he's "dismantling" Engllish teams over the years.

Ronaldo, on the other hand, just scored a goal. Meh. Glorified Inzaghi.
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Do you see any Messi supporter claim he was good? I don't. People say the assist or whatever you want to call it was great but he was bad apart from that. If anything that supports the eye test. Because I've seen Ronaldo having even worse games countless times but then he scores a goal and everyone creamed their pants. Vice versa that's obviously not the case because no Messi supportes in here are denying he was shit yesterday - from what I've seen (watched the conference) it was by far his worst match this season.
 
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