Yeah, I get it, but our horrible tactics in the second leg doomed. Valverde was playing simply "not to lose by 3" similar to Simeone's pathetic tactics in the second leg this year vs Juve.
Hopefully Valverde has learned his lesson this year.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Yeah, I get it, but our horrible tactics in the second leg doomed. Valverde was playing simply "not to lose by 3" similar to Simeone's pathetic tactics in the second leg this year vs Juve.
Hopefully Valverde has learned his lesson this year.
Fair enoughI put 78 because we kicked their asses back then, wanted to give more value to that final, do not spoil it
I think the fact they fell short after avoiding defeat to Real Madrid and somehow losing to Levante made a huge difference. Arsenal 04 is still in the conversation in England because they did go unbeaten, Chelsea only lost once in 05 and are not remembered anywhere as fondly.
Do point out when anyone said that bolded part?
If anything it's the Messi fans who seem to think Portugal are managed by the greatest managers ever yet somehow Argentina get the worst of the worst despite their managerial careers.
Portugal had the result they needed with 30min to go in the final group stage, makes a bit of difference to needing a late winner against Nigeria.Well Portugal needing a draw just to get 3rd place in a group stage in the Euro says it all
I do agree that as a whole, both teams were underwhelming.
Argentina's back line was a mess.
Let's just leave it at that regarding the WC.
Hopefully he hasn't, we'll see.
Fair enough
I think the fact they fell short after avoiding defeat to Real Madrid and somehow losing to Levante made a huge difference. Arsenal 04 is still in the conversation in England because they did go unbeaten, Chelsea only lost once in 05 and are not remembered anywhere as fondly.
Messi missed that game too. That's why judging these things based on awards is kinda stupid.
You haven't even taken into account the hours put into programs like photoshop to create fake graphics etc!
I'm over this thread. If you participate in the debate for a couple of days you realise that you're arguing against the same arguments. People recycle the same fecking points every other page.
You haven't even taken into account the hours put into programs like photoshop to create fake graphics etc!
I'm over this thread. If you participate in the debate for a couple of days you realise that you're arguing against the same arguments. People recycle the same fecking points every other page.
$20 says you'll be back before the week is up my friend!
You haven't even taken into account the hours put into programs like photoshop to create fake graphics etc!
I'm over this thread. If you participate in the debate for a couple of days you realise that you're arguing against the same arguments. People recycle the same fecking points every other page.
Exactly. They should get back to basics and discuss talent.
Then there’s nothing to discuss; Messi wins.
Ronaldo fanatics have to turn this into some convoluted comparison between who has the better NT coach or whatever. Because deep down they know who is the best.
Indeed, which is why people should be much more strict with the terminology they use.
Who's better? Answer - Messi.
Who's greater? Answer - there's an argument to be had. I'm not convinced much by it but it exists nonetheless.
That said I do have some admiration for Peyroteo's relentlessness in his mission to convince to people to evaluate ability differently.
The old Lies, damned lies and statistics thing again.
When one of the two regularly does things (with the ball) that goes beyond statistics and can't be measured by them then it's a bit of fool's errand from the outset to engage too much with it.
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Semi-relevant to the thread. I need to test out the polling mechanism for something I am doing in the general, so have devised a test poll asking people to rank footballers by who they think is best to worst from a list. If you guys could help that would be grand: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/KZSZTNT
It features both Messi and Ronaldo you'll be pleased to know. If anyone wants the results I can post them back here, or in a pm once it has been a few days.
It features both Messi and Ronaldo you'll be pleased to know. If anyone wants the results I can post them back here, or in a pm once it has been a few days.
What? It's you Messi brigade who insist on blaming all Messi's international failure on his NT coaches.
Am I getting crazy or were they on the other day saying Santos is a great, great manager, reason why Ronaldo had nothing to do with Portugal doing well on some tournaments at least?
Yes, apparently Messi had nothing to do with Argentina's failure in the WC, it was all Sampaoli's fault, and he is worse than any of the Portugal managers Ronaldo ever had.
Sampaoli? Worse than Santos? Do they actually watch Portugal?
According to some of them, Portugal have ALWAYS been one of the footballing countries in Europe.Sampaoli? Worse than Santos? Do they actually watch Portugal?
They have refused to answer when I pointed out that Portugal have only qualified for the WC 3 times before Ronaldo and have done every time since he came onto the scene.
Its true now its easier to qualify to the WC's because there are more teams, but we only had 2 good WC's, 66 and 2006, we always do better at the Euros.According to some of them, Portugal have ALWAYS been one of the footballing countries in Europe.
They have refused to answer when I pointed out that Portugal have only qualified for the WC 3 times before Ronaldo and have done every time since he came onto the scene.
There are so many good things to say about Messi, I don't understand why always blame Argentina coaches, even on the other day they were celebrating Higuain quitting to the NT. They still blame him for Messi not winning with Argentina.
The same in true for Argentina as well.
Anyway, I don't get all the Higuain hate from them, I mean he did score the winner on many occasions, notably in the WC QF when apparently Messi dragged them to the final without scoring a single knockout goal.
Its obvious he was made to play for Barcelona, and will be surprised if he can win the next Copas with Argentina, I look at some of their current players and don't see a team to win there.
Do you even watch matches or just come here and throw stat at people ?2007-08 Chelsea ,2008-09 Liverpool were fighting for the title in May much better than La Liga teams who just can’t keep pressure on Barcelona . Just Look at this season how many stupid games atletico dropped points and let the chance go of mounting pressure in Barcelona.
You know Most of the losses are by 1,3,4 points to Barcelona during an entire 38 match season right ? If anything, you Can call that as failure of team rather than players v/s another player because he infact scored 48 La Liga goals in season and still lost .
CL is different . You play against good teams and more often Messi has been fit in important matches recently but failed to inspire his teams to win and Ronaldo did that exactly so he is being given credit and rightly so .
If he had been bang average during those 9 years in league ( like Messi in CL recently ) then I would have had agreed with you but he scored more that goals per game in La Liga .
What failure?
A good Croatia team were treated like gods for reaching the final. The Netherlands impressed the entire world by reaching the final in 2010 and many feel they deserved the win (same with Argentina in 2014). Zidane’s WC 2006 is still legendary.
On what planet is getting to the final of a WC and being named Player of the Tournament a failure?
I don’t see how ANYONE with a straight face can say Sampaoli did a good job at the last World Cup. He was panicking and alienating players every match.
Agree, he was very bad. The players managing to still get to the final and almost win it was very impressive though. But Higuain should have buried that chance.
The fact I specifically said Sampaoli should be obvious I was talking about 2018?What failure?
A good Croatia team were treated like gods for reaching the final. The Netherlands impressed the entire world by reaching the final in 2010 and many feel they deserved the win (same with Argentina in 2014). Zidane’s WC 2006 is still legendary.
On what planet is getting to the final of a WC and being named Player of the Tournament a failure?
In what world did they get to the final in the last WC!? Are you living in an alternate universe?
I wonder if he regrets not going Spanish.
I am talking about Messi’s Argentina career as a whole
In what universe does a player need to go far in every tournament? Van Basten is a legend for scoring a hat trick against England in Euro 88 and winning it – no one cares or remembers that he didn’t score a single goal in WC 90.
I was having a conversation with @SCP and we both know what we were talking about. You have suddenly decided to take that one quote (which was actually pretty self explanatory) out of context.I am talking about Messi’s Argentina career as a whole
In what universe does a player need to go far in every tournament? Van Basten is a legend for scoring a hat trick against England in Euro 88 and winning it – no one cares or remembers that he didn’t score a single goal in WC 90.
I was having a conversation with @SCP and we both know what we were talking about. You have suddenly decided to take that one quote (which was actually pretty self explanatory) out of context.
”Discussion”, more like stroking eachother but whatever
In other news: on the brilliant site messivsronaldo.net, over 700,000 people have voted. And only a paltry 37% prefer Ronaldo.
Much the same as what you do with your fellow Messi brigade.”Discussion”, more like stroking eachother but whatever
In other news: on the brilliant site messivsronaldo.net, over 700,000 people have voted. And only a paltry 37% prefer Ronaldo.
37% doesn’t suggest it’s light years between them that you lot claim.
Also that poll has been going on for years, plenty of votes were placed when Messi was leading 4-1.
You need to take a statistics class then because that is actually huge. That’s Trump approval rating territory when it was at its lowest. And identical to W Bush’s absolute lowest rating when the Iraq war turned to shit. And they were rightfully mocked endlessly for it.
The fact that more than 1/3 of people disagree with an opinion certainly suggests that it’s not a ‘fact’ that you lot claim it is.
Do they?Doesn’t Australia have 1/3 anti-vaxxers or something? Same thing
Anyway the point is 37% is a significant percentage that indicates it’s an OPINION and not a fact.
Do they?
Anyway the point is 37% is a significant percentage that indicates it’s an OPINION and not a fact.
My point was that if 37% believe vaccines cause autism, that doesn’t mean it’s an ”opinion” that it doesn’t. It’s fact.
That’s such a poor example, whether vaccines cause autism can be disproved by science.
Messi v Ronaldo is just an opinion. Even Messi v Eboue is just an opinion.
All time coaching great Fabio Capello earlier this year:
And this is from a former Real Madrid coach with no connection to Argentina or Messi!
And that last part is so obviously true for anyone with a footballing brain but Ronaldistas make it sound like it’s some fringe opinion. Playing in a WC final is more than a lot of great players have done, and about equal to winning a currency (euro).
And this is from a former Real Madrid coach with no connection to Argentina or Messi!
And that last part is so obviously true for anyone with a footballing brain but Ronaldistas make it sound like it’s some fringe opinion. Playing in a WC final is more than a lot of great players have done, and about equal to winning a currency (euro).
Him being an ex-Real Madrid coach is irrelevant. He never coached Ronaldo and was sacked by Madrid so he's as good as neutral. Mourinho also coached United but I wouldn't expect him to be biased towards them in a debate.
And the last paragraph is ironic. It's YOU Messi fans who try to act like he can do it all on his own. You fine tune your arguments to suit your agenda.
I thought only Ronaldo need good team mates to win things but sounds like Messi also need help. How does that stands with team messi who thinks he does all himself unlike Ronaldo.
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