Hahaha without Messi they lose 2-4 or 3-4
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
Hahaha without Messi they lose 2-4 or 3-4
You guys insists on counting goals and appearance record from Ronaldo's time at Sporting, just applying the same logic.So we are including 2004 and 2005 when Messi hardly played
Also, you're more than happy to include the CL Messi "won" in 2006, surely his Ballon D'or tally should count.
Speculation innit. You weirdos keep presenting pages of facts whilst forgetting that football isnt science and this "factual" debate sprinkled with
@Daysleeper Memphis has terrible decision making so I doubt that. Im simply not good enough to do the thing I know is right, doesnt mean I cannot see it. LVG was a shite footballer, teammates said that he always knew which pass to make, but his legs simply fecked it up Mourinho wasnt even a pro, yet they did allright. Take Maradona on the other hand. Greatest ever, but he makes Steve McClaren look like the football equivalent of Sun Tzu.
A good footballer can be an amazing tactician, but not because he can beat his man with an elastico.
Fair points Kirk, best of luck to you guys in Nations League
Barca to win both legs.
So why is it the same Boateng who always advocates for Ronaldo to win the Ballon D'or if he "explicitly thinks Messi is better?"https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2018/09/20/5ba3f77422601daf238b45a3.html
He explicitly says Messi is better than Ronaldo, but nice try
Have any other examples because you've managed to find one so far!
I don't know, perhaps he prefers Ronaldo but thinks Messi is better. No point in speculating, he's said it outright.
I've never heard anything of Drogba saying he's better and the only quote I found of Romario said he'd prefer he'd play with Messi. The others I'd consider biased (including Romario). The only legit ones are Guillit and potentially Drogba. I do agree it's quite pointless on an individual basis but there is a definite majority of neutral players and managers that favour Messi.
I swear to god there are some people here who post about Ronaldo or Messi 4 times a day. If you think for 20 minutes to elaborate each post, that is 1 hour thinking of Ronaldo or Messi a day, plus the times they day dream of them, so lets round it to 2 hours. That's roughly 60 hours a month, or 30 days a year thinking of Ronaldo or Messi. Which equals 1 month in the trash can.
Think about it.
Think about it.
How does that make any sense though? When he tweets this, does he tweet still believing Messi is the best:
[QUOTE=MrEleson, post: 23914893, How does that make any sense though? When he tweets this, does he tweet still believing Messi is the best:
You do know that someone voting for the Balon dor doesnt necessarily mean that they think they are are voting for the better player overall? Just who had a better year. You think all the guys who voted for Luka and Salah ahead of Leo last year think they're better than Messi?
Kevin Prince voted for Cristiano because he througt he was the best in Europe that year, not that he thought he was necessarily a better player. He literally says himself who he believes to be the greater of the two. LISTEN to the guys own words, no need to summize either way. He said, Cristiano is of this world, Leo is otherwordly.
You do know that someone voting for the Balon dor doesnt necessarily mean that they think they are are voting for the better player overall? Just who had a better year. You think all the guys who voted for Luka and Salah ahead of Leo last year think they're better than Messi?
Kevin Prince voted for Cristiano because he througt he was the best in Europe that year, not that he thought he was necessarily a better player. He literally says himself who he believes to be the greater of the two. LISTEN to the guys own words, no need to summize either way. He said, Cristiano is of this world, Leo is otherwordly.
[QUOTE="MrEleson, post: 23914893, member: 93093"How does that make any sense though? When he tweets this, does he tweet still believing Messi is the best:
Furthermore, that tweet of Kevin about Cristiano was from 2012. His latest opinion on Messi being the best was from September 2018, after Cristianos 5th CL, 6 years later. Whats more relevant,
Very bad argument/ example.
Furthermore, that tweet of Kevin about Cristiano was from 2012. His latest opinion on Messi being the best was from September 2018, after Cristianos 5th CL, 6 years later. Whats more relevant,
Very bad argument/ example.
I used to prefer Ronaldo to Messi back then and even though I begrudgingly thought Messi was probably better in my heart of hearts, I'd want Ronnie to win the Ballon D'or. People change their minds, that was over 6 years ago. I'm not sure why you're still discussing this, he's said explicitly that Messi is better than Ronaldo yet you don't believe him, nothing I'm going to say is going to change your mind.
I made a post in this thread and actors from both sides agreed with me. There should be some sort of Nobel prize category for that yeah?
You are the poster equivalent of a half and half scarf.
I don't think there's any time wasted on thought before most people post. You actually think before you post?
It's a sickness, there are genuinely ill people in this thread.
That's one of the worst insults I've ever suffered
@MalcolmTucker
I'm done arguing about this
. I literally posted a tweet from last year where he called Ronaldo the best and you both found a way to dismiss it. Now you're claiming that this tweet is irrelevant because it's 6 years old. Here is Boateng "explicitly" saying Ronaldo is the best from his own mouth on his Instagram story from the World Cup last year:
https://isdb.pw/princeboateng/1802476618683069441
I'm guessing here he isn't including the extraterrestrial that is Messi here either.
[/QUOTE]Didnt Boating say in his presser after signing for Barcelona that Messi is the best? It's almost like these players are just saying the most convenient thing depending on the situation.
Mind blowing, I know.
Having football players vote for other football players is the dumbest thing since supermarkets going back to selling unsliced bread.
Mind blowing, I know.
Having football players vote for other football players is the dumbest thing since supermarkets going back to selling unsliced bread.
I remember Cristiano not knowing Mario Götze by name during the season Dortmund reached the CL final. Fans around the whole world vreamed their pants thinking that his club could sign him and Ronaldo didn't even know him. A friend of mine is a professional footballer and my impression is he simply doesn't care at all about such things.
So yeah, having footballers vote is pretty dumb. But so is letting journalists vote because they want stories to tell. Let's just agree the Ballon D'Or is a shit prize
@MalcolmTucker
I'm done arguing about this
Here is Boateng "explicitly" saying Ronaldo is the best from his own mouth on his Instagram story from the World Cup last year:
https://isdb.pw/princeboateng/1802476618683069441
I'm guessing here he isn't including the extraterrestrial that is Messi here either.
Yes I'm quite done on this subject too - he used to think Ronaldo was the best, now he thinks Messi is; maybe he'll think Ronaldo is again next week. Who cares? I'll let you have footballing heavyweight Kevin Prince-Boateng as the one other neutral professional who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi, the fact that you searched through his instagram stories proves that it obviously means a lot to you
Also, after berating @Tostao_80 for not quoting you correctly you've managed to not quote him correctly yourself! You seem to be making a habit of making statements then tripping yourself up with them.
I think the prize is fine, I do think it's a bit silly to use it in empirical research, as there are simply way too many factors in football which you have to take into account to judge one's individual worth. I mean, in the case of Messi and Ronaldo for instance, Messi is obviously the superior football player, but the last few years Ronaldo has objectively won more and scored some very important goals while Messi didnt. I think you can make a strong case for him being better with these facts in hand. On the other hand, there's the Jürgen Klopp Bible of mitigating factors like Wind, Rain, weight of the ball, hairgel, sub-atomic particle density etc. you have to take into account.I remember Cristiano not knowing Mario Götze by name during the season Dortmund reached the CL final. Fans around the whole world vreamed their pants thinking that his club could sign him and Ronaldo didn't even know him. A friend of mine is a professional footballer and my impression is he simply doesn't care at all about such things.
So yeah, having footballers vote is pretty dumb. But so is letting journalists vote because they want stories to tell. Let's just agree the Ballon D'Or is a shit prize
Yes I'm quite done on this subject too - he used to think Ronaldo was the best, now he thinks Messi is; maybe he'll think Ronaldo is again next week. Who cares? I'll let you have footballing heavyweight Kevin Prince-Boateng as the one other neutral professional who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi, the fact that you searched through his instagram stories proves that it obviously means a lot to you
Also, after berating @Tostao_80 for not quoting you correctly you've managed to not quote him correctly yourself! You seem to be making a habit of making statements then tripping yourself up with them.
I didn’t need to search through his stories to find it. It Was fairly easy and fast to find actually. KPB’s opinion isnt that important, it was just to disprove that ridiculous theory that he always thought messi was better because he considered him an alien when he clearly thought Ronaldo was best in the world up until 4 months before he coincidentally joined Barca...
And it was @Tostao_80 who caused the whole mess with the quoting. I couldn’t quote him properly now because of the way he wrongly quoted me to begin with which messed up the whole format.
Sounds like Ray Hudson every time Messi plays a 5 yard square pass.
Has he done that at club level though? If we look at his time in Madrid, he only won the league twice in 9 years. Any real football fan will tell you that the league is more of a true test than a cup that can be fluked.
The fact that this thread is letting the Ronaldo fanboys get away with putting too much weight on cup titles is worrying. They know deep down that a team that resoundingly lost the league but clinched the CL (a la Liverpool 2005 or Chelsea 2012) can’t seriously be considered the best in the world.
No one thinks Klose is an all time great just because he won the WC and is the all time WC top scorer.
How can you lose 7 out of 9 leagues and still be considered better?
That wasn't my point. My entire point is that there's nothing in football you can use as objective fact to determine an individual player's worth.
Regarding fanboys, both camps are guilty of the exact same thing. It's called human nature*, embrace it.
*I'm obviously exempt from these puny mortal flaws in all my exalted objectivity.
Seriously? Any football discussions regarding the best clubs sides ever normally include the likes of Real 15-18, Barca 09-11, Milan 88-90, Ajax, Bayern (70s) etc, the discussions among United fans regarding our best ever teams tends to be United 99 v United 08, all those sides won the CL. Does anyone include the Real side in the 80s that won lots of La Liga but no the CL in the conversation?
There's a reason why the CL is valued above the league title.
As for Klose, the point is being key player of their club like Ronaldo & Messi makes a big difference to being just another name on the team sheet.
I really fear you typed this out with a serious face.
All of them won the league
I’m sorry, but the double is what confirms a side as being dominant. During Real’s 5 year spell where they won 4 CLs, they only won the league once. And when they did it, it was straight off the back of Barcelona’s treble where they were considered the best team in the world.
Debatable. There’s a reason everyone laughs at Chelsea’s CL title. It certainly has a higher profile among the Instagram crowd but true football fans generally agree that cups (especially for national teams) are finicky and have a large degree of randomness.
I fear for your sanity if you don't think they are one of the best club sides ever.
But Ronaldo was a major part of retaining 3 Premier Leagues in a row, which is far more difficult than winning all those La Ligas playing for one of the best club sides of all time.
Actually, Milan didn't win Serie A in either 89 or 90 (0/2); Bayern won the Bundesliga in 74 but not 75 or 76 (1/3).All of them won the league
I’m sorry, but the double is what confirms a side as being dominant. During Real’s 5 year spell where they won 4 CLs, they only won the league once. And when they did it, it was straight off the back of Barcelona’s treble where they were considered the best team in the world.
Debatable. There’s a reason everyone laughs at Chelsea’s CL title. It certainly has a higher profile among the Instagram crowd but true football fans generally agree that cups (especially for national teams) are finicky and have a large degree of randomness.
Real 16-18 also won the title in 17.
But don't let the facts get in the way of your stupid smiley
They are far from it. If we need to believe your fellow Ronaldo fanatic @Peyroteo for starters, that 15-18 Real side had an average midfield apart from maybe one year. How do you rhyme that with "one of the BEST club sides EVER"? Literally no one would, no one could argue with a straight face that they were at any point a better team than 09-11 Barcelona.
You are missing the point between a great side and a great achievement. The other teams you mentioned were the best sides ever, and winning the CL 3 times in a row is a one of the best achievements ever. Leicester winning the Premier League was a great achievement but no fecking way they're even close to one of the best sides ever.
Many people consider Holland 74/78 one of the best teams ever, they fail to win both WC so no, it´s not all about winning, Messi is the better player, by far, even if he never wins another tournament again, plese drop it.
Its what is usually argued against the "stats" and "won more" brigade. You can be better, despite having worse stats and winning less. Look at Diego as your typical example. Why is he considered amongst the 3 best players of all time by the majority of people? There are many footballers with better stats and many footballers who won more. Gerd Muller is another example. How many footballers in history can combine the following: stats and trophies won in one of the toughest leagues in the world, European cup level, World cup level and Euro champz level. Not just that but he is also one of (if not the most) decisive players in history (scorer in world cup and Euro champs final for example).
Why isnt a guy with his resume mentioned at the top table? Shouldn't he be, if its all about stats and winning?
Diego, Pele, Cruyff and Messi are considered the greatest of them all because they won, AND also because they had the GAME that many players before them didnt. They were unique. Gerd Mullers game wasnt unique, he was just a better version of what had come before. Who had seen anyone like Diego before he came about? Beckenbauers revolutionary and unique abilities set him above all other defenders.
Cristiano, despite winning, and having great stats, doesnt leave the same imprint on the game. You dont watch him, and think, youve litteraly never seen the things he does. His consistency at the very highest level is close to unparalleled. Which is why, when many people say they prefer him over Leo, its not usually based on their games (they say hes played in different leagues, hes scored more, hes won more et al). But wheres the GAME based argument to sit him up there with Leo, Johann and Diego? It simply doesnt exist.
United were dominating the EPL before Ronaldo arrived and won the league after he left.
United the league 6 times out of 8 years from 1996-2003.
EPL was a one team league with United so dominant.
I said ONE OF, if you believe 09-11 Barca to be the best club side ever, can you name 4 others that are better than the Real side?
If they're in a group of 5, seems reasonable to call them "one of" the best? No?
I just posted above that neither Milan nor Bayern had great domestic records during their CL repeats, so what exactly is your point here?
First of all, I never said their midfield was average. Just not the best in the world for more than a year and definitely overrated. It was still a good midfield though obviously.
Ronaldo didn’t have half the help between 2016 and 2018 than Messi had between 2009 and 2011. That team was still a better knockout team though and people putting down what happened to luck are idiots.
- Status