Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Peyroteo]

See, modern football is all about dominating the midfield. That doesn't necessarily mean possession. Both dominant styles aim at midfield domination, whether it is through intense high pressing and quick transition or through ball domination and counter pressinh. That's why no team plays 4-4-2 anymore but variations of 4-3-3s or 4-2-3-1s, that's why inverted wingers became so popular, that's why the false nine came back and that's also why you see more and more three men backlines.

Real Madrid played 4-4-2 for large parts of last season, Atletico have played 4-4-2 for ages, Juventus have successfully played a 4-4-2 this season...

Midfields work as well as their forwards allow them to. Easier to overcrowd midfields when you have players who can score off scraps. Liverpool's midfield works in transition football because they have the forwards to take advantage of it. Not the other way around. Dominating midfields do not win games. Goals win and change games. Madrid won the Champions League without achieving midfield domination one single time last season.

All that is to create superiority in the center of the pitch and keep spaces tight. That's where games are won.

No, games are won via goals.

Why do the best forwards cost 3 times as much as the best midfielders? Are football clubs incredibly stupid?

 

[Zehner]

We won the league with Cleverly in midfield.

In 2013, yes. The EPL wasn't exactly up to date tactically during that time, it was still shaped by box to box midfielders. I don't think you'd won it against a side like City, Bayern, Barca, Madrid or PSG.

 

[Peyroteo]

Was wrong on the Lopetegui bit. Still stand by the rest. They'll be fine eventually since the squad still oozes quality. The reason for their current crisis isn't a lack of individual class.

You're joking. Oozes quality? From where? Defense isn't good enough, midfield isn't good enough and the attack isn't good enough. The young guys who you loved licking their asses in Ceballos, Vallejo, Llorente and Asensio aren't a fifth of the players you pretended they were.

They're looking to spend 500 million this summer, will bring quality from defense to attack to replace players who are blatantly not good enough and you think lack of quality isn't a problem?

Barca without Messi looks just the same - does that mean tgeir squad is shit, too?

Barca without Messi beat Real Madrid 5-1. They're great as long as they play with an offensive plan than isn't passing the ball to Messi at all times.

They'd still have nowhere near the necessary firepower to be the best team in the world without him, obviously.

 

[Peyroteo]

In 2013, yes. The EPL wasn't exactly up to date tactically during that time, it was still shaped by box to box midfielders. I don't think you'd won it against a side like City, Bayern, Barca, Madrid or PSG.

If it happens, you'll rate Ronaldo much higher for performing with box-to-box midfielders then (Matuidi, Can, Bentancur). Right?

Following your logic, if football matches are won via midfield control, playing as a forward in a team that gets a lot less midfield control is much harder than playing in a team that controls the midfield in pretty much every match. Maybe you should start applying your logic to how you see their careers rather than applying it to the small period where Ronaldo played with Modric and Kroos.

 

[Prometheus]

You do realize Messi usually has 3-5 players of his own team ahead of him when he gets on the ball?

Jesus, sometimes I wonder if you guys even watch any of the two player's matches.

Messi's position is so different to the likes of Laudrup etc that it's hard to take you seriously.

The arrogance you display and your knowledge of football are so far apart that it's incredible!

 

[Zehner]

Messi's position is so different to the likes of Laudrup etc that it's hard to take you seriously.

The arrogance you display and your knowledge of football are so far apart that it's incredible!

Care to explain what Laudrup's position being different has to do with how deep they are playing and why exactly my claim that Messi doesn't play further up the pitch than those players is ridiculous? I really can't see it since he does drop that deep nowadays.

 

[Tostao_80]

Indeed. Should I bring out the stupid quotes arquive from the past year about Madrid's midfield being the main reason for their success?



They're forwards, they play in the final third... Messi does walk between the lines trying to get the ball and failing that he comes deep. There's absolutely nothing special about the way he moves off the ball during that process, only his arrival in the box is special. You have no clue about what off the ball movement even is.

Some of the arguments on here are laughable. Cristiano is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Off the ball movement. Not dribbling, or passing, or creativity. Really? Pippo Inzhagi had great off the ball movement. Hernan Crespo had great off the ball movement. You need more than that

 

[Ishdalar]

Messi's position is so different to the likes of Laudrup etc that it's hard to take you seriously.

The arrogance you display and your knowledge of football are so far apart that it's incredible!

I don't even...





You do know that Laudrup played as the 9 the season before Romario, right?

https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/t/t1992-931.html

He says it himself

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/videos/771257/one-of-ours-michael-laudrup

 

[Zehner]

I don't even...





You do know that Laudrup played as the 9 the season before Romario, right?

https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/t/t1992-931.html

He says it himself

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/videos/771257/one-of-ours-michael-laudrup

Stop being so arrogant.

 

[Ishdalar]

Stop being so arrogant.

Yeah, I think it's time I stop linking out videos, images, articles, stats and interviews in this thread and double down on smileys, seems the way to go.

 

[Peyroteo]

Some of the arguments on here are laughable. Cristiano is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Off the ball movement. Not dribbling, or passing, or creativity. Really? Pippo Inzhagi had great off the ball movement. Hernan Crespo had great off the ball movement. You need more than that

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Passing. Ozil had great passing. Fabregas had great passing. You need more than that

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Dribbling. Isco is a great dribbler. Zaha is a great dribbler. You need more than that.

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Goal scoring. Gerd Muller was a great goalscorer. Eusebio was a great goalscorer. You need more than that.

I mean, what the feck? Since when is saying a player is good at something mean they aren't good at anything else?

 

[Peyroteo]

Yeah, I think it's time I stop linking out videos, images, articles, stats and interviews in this thread and double down on smileys, seems the way to go.

You can always downright lie about stuff, that's going well. Fake stats, fake graphics and fake interviews are obviously better than no stats, no graphics and no interviews of course.

Will I get an invitation for the Zehner-Ishdalar wedding by the way? It's about time guys, feel a bit responsible for bringing you together so I should go. Every time one of you makes a post and the other makes an agreeing remark in return my heart melts a bit.

 

[Tostao_80]

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Passing. Ozil had great passing. Fabregas had great passing. You need more than that

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Dribbling. Isco is a great dribbler. Zaha is a great dribbler. You need more than that.

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Goal scoring. Gerd Muller was a great goalscorer. Eusebio was a great goalscorer. You need more than that.

I mean, what the feck? Since when is saying a player is good at something mean they aren't good at anything else?

If youre being honest with yourself you know that the main reason Messi fans put him up there is not goalscoring (that's Cristiano fans, the purely STATS argument belongs to them). Messi is one of the greatest goalscorers EVER. But that alone doesnt separate you from the pack (check Gerd Muller). Messi, Diego and Pele are considered by most as the best ever because, outside their goals and achievements (again here, matched by Muller), their overall GAMES as footballers set them apart. In Diego, you have one of the greatest dribblers and playmakers of all time. Pele was an incredible player outside of his goals. He was a complete footballer. Do you know who who was voted player of the 1970 world Cup? Was it Gerd Muller and his 10 goals? Was it Jairzinho and his 7 goals (scored in every round, including the final)? Or was it Pele and his measly 4 goals? It was Pele. He was the greatest total footballer the world had seen. Messi belongs to that category. Similarly Cruyff. The same attributes that you deride in Messi (passing, dribbling and creativity) are thd same attributes that separate Cruyff, Pele, and Diego from Muller and the other pretenders.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Passing. Ozil had great passing. Fabregas had great passing. You need more than that

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Dribbling. Isco is a great dribbler. Zaha is a great dribbler. You need more than that.

Some of the arguments here are laughable. Messi is aiming for a table alongside Diego and Pele, and what do his followers bring? Goal scoring. Gerd Muller was a great goalscorer. Eusebio was a great goalscorer. You need more than that.

I mean, what the feck? Since when is saying a player is good at something mean they aren't good at anything else?

Problem is Messi is the best at all of them, with only Ronaldo challenging him on the goalscoring aspect.

 

[Ishdalar]

You can always downright lie about stuff, that's going well. Fake stats, fake graphics and fake interviews are obviously better than no stats, no graphics and no interviews of course.

Will I get an invitation for the Zehner-Ishdalar wedding by the way? It's about time guys, feel a bit responsible for bringing you together so I should go. Every time one of you makes a post and the other makes an agreeing remark in return my heart melts a bit.

Once I've linked a fake stat AFAIK, now that's the straw you'll clutch to?. Sprink with some "fake graphics, fake interviews" and you're the new Trump of the thread, must be an imposter in that interview, not Laudrup.

 

[Peyroteo]

Once I've linked a fake stat AFAIK, now that's the straw you'll clutch to?. Sprink with some "fake graphics, fake interviews" and you're the new Trump of the thread, must be an imposter in that interview, not Laudrup.

In the interview the only thing he says about the positions is that he sometimes played as 9, 10, 11, etc..

You show the newspaper's eleven for one game and then say he played one season as a 9 which is not true as he played there only parts of it. So what anyway, none of those things even remotely matter to the fact he did not in any way play as forward as Messi does which is the whole point.

You try to prove a point by exaggerating on things that do not even prove the point you're trying to make. It's very weird.

 

[Peyroteo]

Problem is Messi is the best at all of them, with only Ronaldo challenging him on the goalscoring aspect.

And the whole lot of them that weren't part of the example because Messi isn't great at them. Saying that Ronaldo is great at moving off the ball doesn't mean he isn't great at other things.

Goalscoring is tricky, Ronaldo in the season before going to Spain scored 26 in 53 for United. Now in Italy he has 24 in 36 so far.

In the 9 Madrid seasons: 33 in 35, 53 in 54, 60 in 55, 55 in 55, 51 in 47, 61 in 54, 51 in 48, 42 in 46 and 44 in 44.

It was a lot easier to score in Madrid, same way that it's a lot easier for Messi to score in Barcelona. Messi will have that privilidge his whole career though.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

And the whole lot of them that weren't part of the example because Messi isn't great at them. Saying that Ronaldo is great at moving off the ball doesn't mean he isn't great at other things.

Goalscoring is tricky, Ronaldo in the season before going to Spain scored 26 in 53 for United. Now in Italy he has 24 in 36 so far.

In the 9 Madrid seasons: 33 in 35, 53 in 54, 60 in 55, 55 in 55, 51 in 47, 61 in 54, 51 in 48, 42 in 46 and 44 in 44.

It was a lot easier to score in Madrid, same way that it's a lot easier for Messi to score in Barcelona. Messi will have that privilidge his whole career though.

In the end Ronaldo is being outscored in a weaker league by a 36 year old playing for a team in 9th position.. this is while playing in a side that has won the league 7 times in a row even without Ronaldo.

The only justification you can really have is that Ronaldo is given more responsibility to create for Juve which is fair enough, except Messi has been doing that years at Barcelona yet still putting up outrageous goalscoring numbers in a tougher league.

Interested to see how you justify this.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't even...





You do know that Laudrup played as the 9 the season before Romario, right?

https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/t/t1992-931.html

He says it himself

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/videos/771257/one-of-ours-michael-laudrup

He doesn't say it himself. Stop making stuff up.

I'm guessing you clattered the post with all those highlights and meaningless graphics to obscure this?

Also Fabregas played as a striker at some point. That does not mean their positions aren't too dissimilar.

The notion that Laudrup (as well as Maradona, Ronaldinho, and Zidane) played further up the pitch than Messi is absolutely laughable, and yes, deserves:

 

[Peyroteo]

In the end Ronaldo is being outscored in a weaker league by a 36 year old playing for a team in 9th position.. this is while playing in a side that has won the league 7 times in a row even without Ronaldo.

The only justification you can really have is that Ronaldo is given more responsibility to create for Juve which is fair enough, except Messi has been doing that years at Barcelona yet still putting up outrageous goalscoring numbers in a tougher league.

Interested to see how you justify this.

He can't score an hattrick all season in Serie A but can do it against the best defense in the world when his team needs 3. His worst games of the season came against Chievo and Young Boys and his best against Napoli and Atletico. How do you justify that? Seriously, I'd like to know opinions about it. Why does this happen?

The way I see it, motivation levels shift depending on the importance of games and he prepares himself to be at his best when the team needs him at his best. Doesn't mean it works every single time obviously but it does maximize the chances of success imo.

Scoring an hattrick vs Empoli tomorrow would be good for the stats sheet, not good for the team. I'll be surprised if he plays more than 3 or 4 games in the league until the end of the season if Juve get to the semis. It's already won. 36 year old Quagliarela will most likely finish with more goals and assists than him, hopefully you guys argue he's a better player than Ronaldo the same way you've been doing in the past couple of years for Messi.

Juventus aren't Barcelona or Real Madrid. Not only are they a lot more defensive-minded but they spread their goalscoring a lot which is why they generally don't have the league's top scorer despite winning the league a bunch. They've scored more than 3 goals in a game one single time this season, Barcelona have done it 12 times, Quagliarela's Sampdoria have done it 5 times for example. The goals Ronaldo is missing in comparison to his Real Madrid years are the 5-0 vs Apoel and the 7-1 vs Deportivo sort of goals. Not the ones that matter.

2017/18 - 44 goals

Goals while losing or drawing: 19
Goals while winning by 1 goal: 12
Goals while winning by more than 1 goal: 10

2018/19 - 24 goals so far

Goals while losing or drawing: 17
Goals while winning by 1 goal: 5
Goals while winning by more than 1 goal: 2

He doesn't get to statpad his goals the way he did in La Liga with Madrid.

 

[Hemant]

In the end Ronaldo is being outscored in a weaker league by a 36 year old playing for a team in 9th position.. this is while playing in a side that has won the league 7 times in a row even without Ronaldo.

The only justification you can really have is that Ronaldo is given more responsibility to create for Juve which is fair enough, except Messi has been doing that years at Barcelona yet still putting up outrageous goalscoring numbers in a tougher league.

Interested to see how you justify this.

Have you watched Juventus play this season ? They are much more defensive and hardly scores more than 2/3 goals in league .it’s just the way they been set up by their coach as they go cold as soon as they are 1-0 up.

Barcelona or Madrid for that matter plays more attacking hence probability of scoring in la liga is much higher . Just look at his record in la liga it’s more than goal per game . His record in Serie A is also not bad but yes he seems to be enjoying game more than focusing on just scoring off late I think plus he knows when to up the ante like he did against Atletico . If he had failed in that match , you will be coming very hard on him but sadly he hasn’t given you that opportunity in years in CL.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Very late in the day to this debate but I suspect it will go on for another hundred years (at least) anyway.

My take is in line with what I think is just about the consensus of opinion:

Messi is the greater pure footballer with much deeper technical skillsets (dribbling, vision and passing in particular).

Ronaldo is obviously the superior physical specimen and has achieved a level of consistency of goal-scoring in the latter stages of the Champions League that edges even Messi.

It makes it a complicated question. IN any "dream team" scenario, I'd take Messi all day if they were vying for the same spot; but crucially if someone held a gun to my head and said pick one to produce in certain hypothetical scenarios, then I just don't know - I may edge Ronaldo 55-45 across the board.

I'm not sure where that leaves the issue and this is why I think the Messi v Ronaldo debate is at cross-purposes. It's comparing the greatest pure footballer to have ever lived (Messi) to the greatest footballing performer in terms of output that has ever lived (Ronaldo). It's a Rolls Royce v Monster Truck - just depends on what you want!

Messi at his best is untouchable. Ronaldo doesn't come close. But if my life depended on picking one to just make something happen through sheer force of will, time after time, on the big stage then I'd reluctantly pick Ronaldo. Not by much, but these last couple of years have reluctantly swayed me.

I think because Messi's game is more complex, there's more that can work brilliantly, but also more points of failure, for instance if his teammates for whatever reason aren't telepathically in-tune with him on a given week, he can lose the edge. Whereas Ronaldo in this instance is more … kind of … virtuoso. it doesn't matter as much how his teammates are shaping up. His strategy is blunter and less elegant but perhaps more adaptable across all scenarios and conditions.

I'd personally take Messi 9 times out of 10 because there's no contest in terms of footballing ability, and their outputs are similar.

But Ronaldo's performances in the latter stages of the CL these past few years have swayed me a little.

IF he wins it with Juve this year .. .well I just don't know.

Although I may not agree with everything, I respect the honesty. This is what most Messi fans should feel, favouring Messi but recognising Ronaldo at the same time.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well, he scored two headers and a penalty.

I recently described how everybody has a little algorithm in his head which he uses to rate a player on. You'd say yours is very straightforward, I'd say it's very simple.

There's a reason players like Zidane, Ronaldinho, Laudrup, Maradona and so forth were regarded best in the world despite not scoring that much. Playmaking and creating chances is more difficult than converting chances. And it is more important since there were no chances to convert without those who set these chances up. Ronaldo may have proved he's a better goal scorer under very specific circumstances (aka CL KO stages) but the lightyears in playmaking Messi is ahead more than make up for that.

So no, Ronaldo's games against Juve, Bayern and Atletico aren't on the same level IMO. Many other players have had games on that level, e.g. Lewandowski against Real, but Cristiano simply does it much more frequently.

Do you realise Ronaldo also has by far the highest no. of dribble (6 dribble won) vs Athetico, apart from his 2 header and a penalty? Not to mention the way his determination and leadership carry the team in winning, which is often ignored in this type of discussion.

Your post is exactly why this type of discussion is leading to nowhere, as poster like your will never see anything from Ronaldo apart from his goals.

 

[Rito]

Pele would be regarded as such no matter his goal record. The guy was all about dribbling which you'd knew if you had watched actual footage of the guy.

And no, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Zidane and Laudrup weren't midfielders, they were CAMs/inverted wingers just like Messi. They arguably played even further up the pitch. You'd rarely see Ronaldinho drop as deep as Messi does.

That's what we've been telling you for ages. Messi plays much, much deeper than Cristiano and participates accordingly.

What next? Messi is a goalkeeper who scored 600 goals ?
This M brigade is hilarious.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

He can't score an hattrick all season in Serie A but can do it against the best defense in the world when his team needs 3. His worst games of the season came against Chievo and Young Boys and his best against Napoli and Atletico. How do you justify that? Seriously, I'd like to know opinions about it. Why does this happen?

The way I see it, motivation levels shift depending on the importance of games and he prepares himself to be at his best when the team needs him at his best. Doesn't mean it works every single time obviously but it does maximize the chances of success imo.

Scoring an hattrick vs Empoli tomorrow would be good for the stats sheet, not good for the team. I'll be surprised if he plays more than 3 or 4 games in the league until the end of the season if Juve get to the semis. It's already won. 36 year old Quagliarela will most likely finish with more goals and assists than him, hopefully you guys argue he's a better player than Ronaldo the same way you've been doing in the past couple of years for Messi.

Juventus aren't Barcelona or Real Madrid. Not only are they a lot more defensive-minded but they spread their goalscoring a lot which is why they generally don't have the league's top scorer despite winning the league a bunch. They've scored more than 3 goals in a game one single time this season, Barcelona have done it 12 times, Quagliarela's Sampdoria have done it 5 times for example. The goals Ronaldo is missing in comparison to his Real Madrid years are the 5-0 vs Apoel and the 7-1 vs Deportivo sort of goals. Not the ones that matter.

2017/18 - 44 goals

Goals while losing or drawing: 19
Goals while winning by 1 goal: 12
Goals while winning by more than 1 goal: 10

2018/19 - 24 goals so far

Goals while losing or drawing: 17
Goals while winning by 1 goal: 5
Goals while winning by more than 1 goal: 2

He doesn't get to statpad his goals the way he did in La Liga with Madrid.

And that one single game was when Ronaldo was rested.

You can pretend that Ronaldo is choosing not to score as many goals as Quagliarela so far this season, Ronaldo has always been ridiculously hungry for goals, it's one of his greatests strengths, I just think that despite your constant derision of Real Madrid, they had players who were better at creating and knew that Ronaldo was best utilised as a finisher of chances. Now he is given a bit more responsibility he can no longer keep up with Messi, who has far more responsibility on the ball than current Ronaldo.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

He doesn't say it himself. Stop making stuff up.

I'm guessing you clattered the post with all those highlights and meaningless graphics to obscure this?

Also Fabregas played as a striker at some point. That does not mean their positions aren't too dissimilar.

The notion that Laudrup (as well as Maradona, Ronaldinho, and Zidane) played further up the pitch than Messi is absolutely laughable, and yes, deserves:

I don't fully agree with Zidane (at least for Real Madrid) and I didn't get to watch Maradona but current Messi and pre-Pep Messi definitely played about the same position and had the same attacking and defensive responsiblity as Ronaldinho and Laudrup.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

I have a faster car that's better than yours in almost every way yet I still lose the race because you're driving yours better.


Messi is the better player, there's no debating this, accounting for what both can do It's actually not even close.
However Ronaldo is always decisive when it matters the most and finds a way to score,score and score, something Messi hasn't done in big UCL games over the past years.

 

[Rito]

And that one single game was when Ronaldo was rested.

You can pretend that Ronaldo is choosing not to score as many goals as Quagliarela so far this season, Ronaldo has always been ridiculously hungry for goals, it's one of his greatests strengths, I just think that despite your constant derision of Real Madrid, they had players who were better at creating and knew that Ronaldo was best utilised as a finisher of chances. Now he is given a bit more responsibility he can no longer keep up with Messi, who has far more responsibility on the ball than current Ronaldo.

Let's tarnish a career spanning over 16-17 years by citing example of one season, when CR7 has joined a new team, new league, etc.

How about those seasons when Suarez was outscoring messi? or how about getting outscored by fecking Daniel Guiza or a 31 yr old Diego Forlan, since we are talking about one season to judge a player?
Oh right, Messi drops deeper than the goalkeeper himself. Excuses are already in place.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

There is a huge, massive gap that exists between the talent levels of Messi and Cristiano. Cristiano's natural talent is along the levels of Hazard and Robben.
The thing is, Cristiano has bridged that gap in terms of output. No other human has done that. Sheer will and winning mentality. For a "normal" player to bridge that gap and match (and a lot of times, beat) Messi in terms of output is what makes Cristiano my favorite.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Cristiano's natural talent is along the levels of Hazard and Robben.

There's physical talent and technical talent.
Hazard is way more technically gifted than Ronaldo but Ronaldo is athletically far superior.

 

[Hemant]

There is a huge, massive gap that exists between the talent levels of Messi and Cristiano. Cristiano's natural talent is along the levels of Hazard and Robben.
The thing is, Cristiano has bridged that gap in terms of output. No other human has done that. Sheer will and winning mentality. For a "normal" player to bridge that gap and match (and a lot of times, beat) Messi in terms of output is what makes Cristiano my favorite.

What is natural v/s unnatural talent ?please elaborate

Cristiano is Normal player ? Your post is as ridiculous as your name

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

There's physical talent and technical talent.
Hazard is way more technically gifted than Ronaldo but Ronaldo is athletically far superior.

Yes ofcourse. I dont disagree. But if you were to equalize, you would say they are somewhat the same. All things considered. Talent wise.

 

[Zehner]

Do you realise Ronaldo also has by far the highest no. of dribble (6 dribble won) vs Athetico, apart from his 2 header and a penalty? Not to mention the way his determination and leadership carry the team in winning, which is often ignored in this type of discussion.

Your post is exactly why this type of discussion is leading to nowhere, as poster like your will never see anything from Ronaldo apart from his goals.

Oh come on, I was one of the first to acknowledge Cristiano's increased participation at Juve in here and have done so multiple times. But he still plays much higher up the pitch than Messi when his team is in possession. In relation to his team mates that is of course (just preparing for another law suit). And the Cristiano that won the CL four times participated extremely little for a winger, not only compared to Messi but also to players like Ribery, Robben etc.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yes ofcourse. I dont disagree. But if you were to equalize, you would say they are somewhat the same. All things considered. Talent wise.

I would heavily disagree with that personally.

Ronaldo is clearly more talented than Hazard as a whole and applies it way better.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Big gap between Messi and Ronaldo as footballers, they're equal in scoring that's it.

 

[Zehner]

There's physical talent and technical talent.
Hazard is way more technically gifted than Ronaldo but Ronaldo is athletically far superior.

Don't know, Cristiano was incredibly talented as a youngster, too. He just didn't show it too often in the last 4-5 years. I think there's a little recency bias going on here. Ronaldo is always characterized as the hard working guy that managed to keep up with Messi through determination but he is very gifted himself and was an outrageous dribbler during his prime. I think that is overlooked quite a bit because his rival is just one of those prodigies. Don't think prime-Cristiano has to hide from Hazard from a technical perspective. Some time ago someone posted a compilation of I think his 2011/12 season. Quite impressive and worth watching.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Let's tarnish a career spanning over 16-17 years by citing example of one season, when CR7 has joined a new team, new league, etc.

How about those seasons when Suarez was outscoring messi? or how about getting outscored by fecking Daniel Guiza or a 31 yr old Diego Forlan, since we are talking about one season to judge a player?
Oh right, Messi drops deeper than the goalkeeper himself. Excuses are already in place.

If people are claiming he's the best player ever it stands to reason that he outscores a 36 year old, who plays for a team in 9th, in a weaker league - @Cal? always denigrated the original Ronaldo for being outscored by the likes of Bierhoff in Serie A so the best player ever should also be held to such standards. Messi was an injury prone 20 year old when he was being outscored by the likes of Guiza and Forlan so it's a disingenuous comparison, he was playing far fewer games than them. Messi has been outscored by Suarez and a few other players over his career, but it's his overall contribution that is why he is valued so highly, it's amazing he is also a ridiculous goalscorer.

Do I think Ronaldo is a worse player than he was last season? No, I don't - I just find it amusing to throw goalscoring stats like this at those who favour Ronaldo as it's seemingly the only language they understand and the only area Ronaldo has that is comparable with Messi.

 

[Hemant]

Don't know, Cristiano was incredibly talented as a youngster, too. He just didn't show it too often in the last 4-5 years. I think there's a little recency bias going on here. Ronaldo is always characterized as the hard working guy that managed to keep up with Messi through determination but he is very gifted himself and was an outrageous dribbler during his prime. I think that is overlooked quite a bit because his rival is just one of those prodigies. Don't think prime-Cristiano has to hide from Hazard from a technical perspective. Some time ago someone posted a compilation of I think his 2011/12 season. Quite impressive and worth watching.

Good post. I thought you are typical Messi fanboy and didn’t expected this from you but very honest post

 

[RedRonaldo]

Oh come on, I was one of the first to acknowledge Cristiano's increased participation at Juve in here and have done so multiple times. But he still plays much higher up the pitch than Messi when his team is in possession. In relation to his team mates that is of course (just preparing for another law suit). And the Cristiano that won the CL four times participated extremely little for a winger, not only compared to Messi but also to players like Ribery, Robben etc.

Well the dribbling part is only refers to Atletico match, when what many see here is his 2 headers and 1 penalty, despite him showing lot more than that. But point is, I think the way he carry the team in terms of leadership/determination part is often ignored. Of course when the focus is on playing making and dribbling alone over past couple of years, there's no comparison.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't fully agree with Zidane (at least for Real Madrid) and I didn't get to watch Maradona but current Messi and pre-Pep Messi definitely played about the same position and had the same attacking and defensive responsiblity as Ronaldinho and Laudrup.

Messi not a midfielder in the sense of those players. Don't let the fact that he sometimes drops deep to collect the ball deceive you. In many matches he's actually the furthest forward. When Messi was starting his career yeah he played as winger, but that's beside the point. It's not the same position! And in any case, there's absolutely no way those players played further forward than Messi! It's actually ridiculous that I'm arguing with this notion!