We are obviously never going to agree, but Cristiano hit much greater heights than Messi against Juve last season, both legs against Bayern in 17 and the hat-trick against AM. On the other hand, Messi was far more anonymous against Roma last season than any game Ronaldo has played in recent YEARS
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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So, not sure if it's been mentioned here yet, but turns out Ronaldo might be out with a hamstring injury for at least two consecutive matches. Possibly he's as is uncertain for the CL match with Ajax on april 10th.
That season Ronaldo scored 16 goals in the CL and missed the first leg vs Manchester City.
You focused on 90s minutes in the second leg which he played and you are right about him being anonymous, but still some perspective would be good.
I recently shared a graph with his overall contribution in decisive rounds in CL, and it speaks for itself. Of course you are always going to find off games, but is that the complete picture? No, it's the other way around. Ronaldo has been incredibly amazing in that competition, no matter how much effort you put on remarking his bad performances.
Please go through my posts and tell me where I said Ronaldo overall isn’t fantastic in CL. He’s had some incredible performances over the years without question. Literally the last post I made before this I was giving him credit for the second leg against Atletico.
Dramatic much ?
You make it sound as if Ronaldo is a defender and Messi nutmegged through him every single time when he scored against Real.
Dramatic much ?
You make it sound as if Ronaldo is a defender and Messi nutmegged through him every single time when he scored against Real.
The exasperation Ronaldo (and the whole Madrid team) has after that 3-2 was legendary. Messi has scored more goals against Madrid than anyone in history. Ronaldo has obviously had his moments in the clasico’s as well, don’t get me wrong. But Messi was always the king of them.
That's bollocks. He scored an amazing goal vs. Juve but the rest of his performance wasn't anything to write home about, Bale scored a similar goal in the final and many lesser talented players than those two have scored them - Messi's goal against RM where he dribbled from the halfway line was much better and much rarer (even though you've decided it doesn't exist because Pepe got sent off). Ronaldo has never performed to a level Messi has against those teams @Zehner mentioned - he's scored more goals in KO games as he's clinical but scoring two headers and a penalty doesn't inspire awe like Messi's technical game does for better or worse - that's why pundits around the world were ready to claim Messi as the best player of all time after CL performances but very few have said it about Ronaldo despite his amazing stats. He just doesn't have the genius that Messi has and never will. You may consider that a romantic view of football and that you're more results based but it's you that's in the minority and tbh I pity you for your unnuanced view on the game as you miss out on what makes this sport magic - you strike me as someone who has never played football.
Also, Ronaldo in the semi final legs last season was just as bad if not worse than Messi vs. Roma, he basically just had a load of wild shots. I actually think the first leg vs. PSG when they lost 4-0 was the worse I've seen Messi ever play and that was on par with Ronaldo's most worse games.
Like I already said, we're never going to agree on this.Messi doesn nothing in a game and you lot will cream over his touch, his so called vision even if it needs nowhere, etc.
Ronaldo scores a hat-trick and you'd say it's only headers and penalties.
No, I think you are right in dismissing this assist because it wasn't hard to pull off. I just wantes to subtly point out that the difficulty of a play is important.
Messi doesn nothing in a game and you lot will cream over his touch, his so called vision even if it needs nowhere, etc.
Ronaldo scores a hat-trick and you'd say it's only headers and penalties.
Well, he scored two headers and a penalty.
I recently described how everybody has a little algorithm in his head which he uses to rate a player on. You'd say yours is very straightforward, I'd say it's very simple.
There's a reason players like Zidane, Ronaldinho, Laudrup, Maradona and so forth were regarded best in the world despite not scoring that much. Playmaking and creating chances is more difficult than converting chances. And it is more important since there were no chances to convert without those who set these chances up. Ronaldo may have proved he's a better goal scorer under very specific circumstances (aka CL KO stages) but the lightyears in playmaking Messi is ahead more than make up for that.
So no, Ronaldo's games against Juve, Bayern and Atletico aren't on the same level IMO. Many other players have had games on that level, e.g. Lewandowski against Real, but Cristiano simply does it much more frequently.
IMO there's no way he can compensate the difference in dribbling and passing with his aerial ability, but that's just me. I haven't seen Cristiano rip teams apart for multiple years. But if that what makes up a great footballer in your view, then fair enough.
Those players are mainly midfielders, obviously it wasn't their main job to score goals. There's a reason why Pele is regarded as one of the GOATs, his goalscoring record!
Pele would be regarded as such no matter his goal record. The guy was all about dribbling which you'd knew if you had watched actual footage of the guy.
And no, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Zidane and Laudrup weren't midfielders, they were CAMs/inverted wingers just like Messi. They arguably played even further up the pitch. You'd rarely see Ronaldinho drop as deep as Messi does.
That's what we've been telling you for ages. Messi plays much, much deeper than Cristiano and participates accordingly.
It's laughable to suggest Pele would be rated as highly if he didn't score, or Messi for that matter.
Scoring is ultimately, the aim of the game.
It's even more laughable to suggest Messi is an AM.
More twisted logic. Diego is regarded as one of the GOATs. He is not of the greatest goalscorers of all time. Gerd Muller IS one of the greatest goalscorers of all time. Guess what, no one puts him up there with Pele and Diego. Similarly Cruyff. He won a lot less than Muller AND scored a lot less. Who is regarded as better/ greater?
I have no idea why anyone would bother replying to Cal at this point, I don't think he watches either of them play, just looks at stats. Peyro on the other hand at least has some valid arguments, although suggesting Ronaldo is the better player because of his importance at defensive set pieces did give me a chuckle, or essentially crediting Ronaldo for an assist every time Ramos scores a header from a corner.
He wanted to give an assist to Ronaldo one time he missed a shot and someone who was behind him scored.
He wanted to give an assist to Ronaldo one time he missed a shot and someone who was behind him scored.
Nah that was this Vancouver user. Not even Cal could keep up with the guy
whatever, I always thought that they were all the same guy.
I love the idea that people spend so long throwing shit at each other that they've mastered the art and have intricate seasonings on the toxic feces for their unfortunate victims"Neymar, Mbappe, Suarez and Aguero are the best players in the world. I put Cristiano aside from that, besides myself. I miss him in Spain, even though it was hard to see him win a lot of trophies" - Lionel Messi
Nope.
Messi's average position this season is higher up the pitch than Ronaldo's due to the difference in Juve's and Barcelona's style of play... Ronaldo also appears out wide a lot more often which is further from goal than playing through the middle. When Ronaldo played further up the pitch as a sort of striker with Mandzukic out injured it actually hurt his goalscoring rather than helping it which is not anything new.
Messi needs the ball at his feet as much as possible, he comes deep to get it since having it between the lines is harder. When you're a player that needs the ball at your feet as much as possible to showcase your talent, playing for the greatest possession team in football history helps too.
Maradona played A LOT deeper than Messi, as did the other players you mentioned btw. That second paragraph is ridiculous.
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You can't be serious!
You do realize Messi usually has 3-5 players of his own team ahead of him when he gets on the ball?
Jesus, sometimes I wonder if you guys even watch any of the two player's matches.
Football is played when a player doesn't have the ball too. It's a 90 minute game, not a 5 minute game.
We watch their matches, you watch them when they have the ball at their feet.
Ronaldo needs the ball on his head as much as possible, he sits at the back post during the build up because he knows he will be ineffectual coming deep and trying to start moves.
Easy to spin the narrative.
I fully expect a reply along the lines of "Ronaldo effects play without the ball, that's why he's so good yada yada" as if we're in some universe where oppo defenders are also not hyper aware of Messi when he's on the edge of the box.
Would be if it was true... Ronaldo does not sit at the back post during the build up or even during most crosses.
At 34 he's Juventus' main creative player by a mile this season. You should watch more of their games and analyze the differences between the way he was playing in Madrid and in Turin and why that's the case.
Of course they're aware, it has a completely different effect on the team's attacking strategy and on the opposition's way of defending though. Which is what matters.
Honestly, you should never talk about off the ball movement again. "Messi just stands still and waits for other players to find him" - you just proved that you have no clue whatsoever. If the ball isn't in the final third, you've got no idea what you are even talking about. You must be watching football without even understanding what's happening on the pitch. Quite ironic that someone that clueless thinks that high of himself and constantly talks down on others.
Indeed. Should I bring out the stupid quotes arquive from the past year about Madrid's midfield being the main reason for their success?
They're forwards, they play in the final third... Messi does walk between the lines trying to get the ball and failing that he comes deep. There's absolutely nothing special about the way he moves off the ball during that process, only his arrival in the box is special. You have no clue about what off the ball movement even is.
Check this thread every 2 to 3 days and there's always 3/4 pages more, you guys are absolutely mental how you can keep it going.
Midfield's are always the main reason for success. I tell you a secret, the ball doesn't magically end up in the final third on the head or in the foot of your darling.
But who am I arguing with. Should really know better.
Surely a midfield of Matuidi-Pjanic-Emre Can has absolutely no chance of success then... and you're going to be incredibly impressed if they do rather than blaming it all on luck once again.
Liverpool are coming off a Champions League final and challenging for the Premier League title with a midfield of Henderson-Milner-Wijnaldum and you tell me midfields are always the reason for success. You're so clueless and close-minded about the different ways of playing football it's incredible.
Where are your darlings Modric and Kroos since the '33 year old striker who only plays well for 2 months' went away?
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What a fecking genius
What a fecking genius
So? Do you really think they struggle because they lack quality? Do you think they had no better squad than Ajax?
Real's squad is still brillant.
See, modern football is all about dominating the midfield. That doesn't necessarily mean possession. Both dominant styles aim at midfield domination, whether it is through intense high pressing and quick transition or through ball domination and counter pressinh. That's why no team plays 4-4-2 anymore but variations of 4-3-3s or 4-2-3-1s, that's why inverted wingers became so popular, that's why the false nine came back and that's also why you see more and more three men backlines. Instead of 2 players out wide you play with one for the width. Even if the attacker plays wide you usually have "inverted full backs" like Lahm, Zinchenko, Marcelo and many more. All that is to create superiority in the center of the pitch and keep spaces tight. That's where games are won.
A midfield of Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum is okayish for that style but that's why he also bought Fabinho and Keita. He knows that this area is the weak spot. And until now they haven't won anything, have they? Just like Juve.
Genius.
Calling Lopetegui a 'very good coach' in the middle of it is a personal favourite too.
Genius.
Calling Lopetegui a 'very good coach' in the middle of it is a personal favourite too.
Was wrong on the Lopetegui bit. Still stand by the rest. They'll be fine eventually since the squad still oozes quality. The reason for their current crisis isn't a lack of individual class.
Barca without Messi looks just the same - does that mean tgeir squad is shit, too?
We won the league with Cleverly in midfield.
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