Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Very late in the day to this debate but I suspect it will go on for another hundred years (at least) anyway.

My take is in line with what I think is just about the consensus of opinion:

Messi is the greater pure footballer with much deeper technical skillsets (dribbling, vision and passing in particular).

Ronaldo is obviously the superior physical specimen and has achieved a level of consistency of goal-scoring in the latter stages of the Champions League that edges even Messi.

It makes it a complicated question. IN any "dream team" scenario, I'd take Messi all day if they were vying for the same spot; but crucially if someone held a gun to my head and said pick one to produce in certain hypothetical scenarios, then I just don't know - I may edge Ronaldo 55-45 across the board.

I'm not sure where that leaves the issue and this is why I think the Messi v Ronaldo debate is at cross-purposes. It's comparing the greatest pure footballer to have ever lived (Messi) to the greatest footballing performer in terms of output that has ever lived (Ronaldo). It's a Rolls Royce v Monster Truck - just depends on what you want!

Messi at his best is untouchable. Ronaldo doesn't come close. But if my life depended on picking one to just make something happen through sheer force of will, time after time, on the big stage then I'd reluctantly pick Ronaldo. Not by much, but these last couple of years have reluctantly swayed me.

I think because Messi's game is more complex, there's more that can work brilliantly, but also more points of failure, for instance if his teammates for whatever reason aren't telepathically in-tune with him on a given week, he can lose the edge. Whereas Ronaldo in this instance is more … kind of … virtuoso. it doesn't matter as much how his teammates are shaping up. His strategy is blunter and less elegant but perhaps more adaptable across all scenarios and conditions.

I'd personally take Messi 9 times out of 10 because there's no contest in terms of footballing ability, and their outputs are similar.

But Ronaldo's performances in the latter stages of the CL these past few years have swayed me a little.

IF he wins it with Juve this year .. .well I just don't know.
 
LeeD1982 said:
Very late in the day to this debate but I suspect it will go on for another hundred years (at least) anyway.

My take is in line with what I think is just about the consensus of opinion:

Messi is the greater pure footballer with much deeper technical skillsets (dribbling, vision and passing in particular).

Ronaldo is obviously the superior physical specimen and has achieved a level of consistency of goal-scoring in the latter stages of the Champions League that edges even Messi.

It makes it a complicated question. IN any "dream team" scenario, I'd take Messi all day if they were vying for the same spot; but crucially if someone held a gun to my head and said pick one to produce in certain hypothetical scenarios, then I just don't know - I may edge Ronaldo 55-45 across the board.

I'm not sure where that leaves the issue and this is why I think the Messi v Ronaldo debate is at cross-purposes. It's comparing the greatest pure footballer to have ever lived (Messi) to the greatest footballing performer in terms of output that has ever lived (Ronaldo). It's a Rolls Royce v Monster Truck - just depends on what you want!

Messi at his best is untouchable. Ronaldo doesn't come close. But if my life depended on picking one to just make something happen through sheer force of will, time after time, on the big stage then I'd reluctantly pick Ronaldo. Not by much, but these last couple of years have reluctantly swayed me.

I think because Messi's game is more complex, there's more that can work brilliantly, but also more points of failure, for instance if his teammates for whatever reason aren't telepathically in-tune with him on a given week, he can lose the edge. Whereas Ronaldo in this instance is more … kind of … virtuoso. it doesn't matter as much how his teammates are shaping up. His strategy is blunter and less elegant but perhaps more adaptable across all scenarios and conditions.

I'd personally take Messi 9 times out of 10 because there's no contest in terms of footballing ability, and their outputs are similar.

But Ronaldo's performances in the latter stages of the CL these past few years have swayed me a little.

IF he wins it with Juve this year .. .well I just don't know.
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That's racist! :wenger:

"joking" aside. I applaud your nuanced point, but implore you not to waste the beginning of your CAF life on this crapshow of a thread. It's not worth it.
 
LeeD1982 said:
Very late in the day to this debate but I suspect it will go on for another hundred years (at least) anyway.

My take is in line with what I think is just about the consensus of opinion:

Messi is the greater pure footballer with much deeper technical skillsets (dribbling, vision and passing in particular).

Ronaldo is obviously the superior physical specimen and has achieved a level of consistency of goal-scoring in the latter stages of the Champions League that edges even Messi.

It makes it a complicated question. IN any "dream team" scenario, I'd take Messi all day if they were vying for the same spot; but crucially if someone held a gun to my head and said pick one to produce in certain hypothetical scenarios, then I just don't know - I may edge Ronaldo 55-45 across the board.

I'm not sure where that leaves the issue and this is why I think the Messi v Ronaldo debate is at cross-purposes. It's comparing the greatest pure footballer to have ever lived (Messi) to the greatest footballing performer in terms of output that has ever lived (Ronaldo). It's a Rolls Royce v Monster Truck - just depends on what you want!

Messi at his best is untouchable. Ronaldo doesn't come close. But if my life depended on picking one to just make something happen through sheer force of will, time after time, on the big stage then I'd reluctantly pick Ronaldo. Not by much, but these last couple of years have reluctantly swayed me.

I think because Messi's game is more complex, there's more that can work brilliantly, but also more points of failure, for instance if his teammates for whatever reason aren't telepathically in-tune with him on a given week, he can lose the edge. Whereas Ronaldo in this instance is more … kind of … virtuoso. it doesn't matter as much how his teammates are shaping up. His strategy is blunter and less elegant but perhaps more adaptable across all scenarios and conditions.

I'd personally take Messi 9 times out of 10 because there's no contest in terms of footballing ability, and their outputs are similar.

But Ronaldo's performances in the latter stages of the CL these past few years have swayed me a little.

IF he wins it with Juve this year .. .well I just don't know.
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Good post and mirrors my thoughts on the debate
 
This thread is golden. The way some of you lot seem to get genuinely angry because someone thinks one of Ronaldo/Messi is better than the other is absolutely hilarious.

For the record, Messi would be my choice the greatest of all time. Not because of stats, but because he’s just a joy to watch on top of scoring a shitload of goals.

I can see why some might pick Ronaldo, though.
 
It is going to be funny in about 10 years when there is another superstar who media and marketing will demand is seen as a GOAT candidate. At that point the Messi/Ronaldo combatants will find common cause and use many of their debating tactics to bring down the new challenger.

I don't care who the GOAT is, the sport changes too much to make any comparisons across eras worthwhile. All the "Player A is better than Player B because Player A had this player on his team while Player B only had this player" is just asinine. NBA forums are a sewer because of GOAT arguments.
 
Bobski said:
It is going to be funny in about 10 years when there is another superstar who media and marketing will demand is seen as a GOAT candidate. At that point the Messi/Ronaldo combatants will find common cause and use many of their debating tactics to bring down the new challenger.

I don't care who the GOAT is, the sport changes too much to make any comparisons across eras worthwhile. All the "Player A is better than Player B because Player A had this player on his team while Player B only had this player" is just asinine. NBA forums are a sewer because of GOAT arguments.
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It can be a worthwhile discussion if carried out properly, but it's a big IF.

It's the same reasons Lara v Tendulkar and Warne v Murali debates are often banned on cricket forums.
 
Daysleeper said:
Yup, a guy who has won 4 CL’s chokes in CL. To teams that nearly beat Madrid themselves where Ronaldo did ZILCH outside of Juventus who imploded in the lockeroom at halftime.

Must be pretty bad for a “choker” to destroy Ronaldo time and time again.
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4 CLs, one he didn't play QF onwards, 1 he made the final due to Ovebro, still impressive, but not really GOAT achievement...
 
Cal? said:
4 CLs, one he didn't play QF onwards, 1 he made the final due to Ovebro, still impressive, but not really GOAT achievement...
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Two league titles in the last decade, is that a GOAT achievement?
 
RobinLFC said:
Two league titles in the last decade, is that a GOAT achievement?
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That's rather susprising but also very interesting. I think it's quite obvious that he pretty much prepares his seasons for later stages in champions league, since he's been pretty average for few years at start of the seasons, only to totally explode in february/march.
 
Peyroteo said:
Neymar’s scored more than Ronaldo this season, he’s a better passer and a better dribbler. Absolutely noone in their right mind would claim he’s a better player. Why’s that?
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I'd take Neymar over Cristiano any day.
 
LeeD1982 said:
Very late in the day to this debate but I suspect it will go on for another hundred years (at least) anyway.

My take is in line with what I think is just about the consensus of opinion:

Messi is the greater pure footballer with much deeper technical skillsets (dribbling, vision and passing in particular).

Ronaldo is obviously the superior physical specimen and has achieved a level of consistency of goal-scoring in the latter stages of the Champions League that edges even Messi.

It makes it a complicated question. IN any "dream team" scenario, I'd take Messi all day if they were vying for the same spot; but crucially if someone held a gun to my head and said pick one to produce in certain hypothetical scenarios, then I just don't know - I may edge Ronaldo 55-45 across the board.

I'm not sure where that leaves the issue and this is why I think the Messi v Ronaldo debate is at cross-purposes. It's comparing the greatest pure footballer to have ever lived (Messi) to the greatest footballing performer in terms of output that has ever lived (Ronaldo). It's a Rolls Royce v Monster Truck - just depends on what you want!

Messi at his best is untouchable. Ronaldo doesn't come close. But if my life depended on picking one to just make something happen through sheer force of will, time after time, on the big stage then I'd reluctantly pick Ronaldo. Not by much, but these last couple of years have reluctantly swayed me.

I think because Messi's game is more complex, there's more that can work brilliantly, but also more points of failure, for instance if his teammates for whatever reason aren't telepathically in-tune with him on a given week, he can lose the edge. Whereas Ronaldo in this instance is more … kind of … virtuoso. it doesn't matter as much how his teammates are shaping up. His strategy is blunter and less elegant but perhaps more adaptable across all scenarios and conditions.

I'd personally take Messi 9 times out of 10 because there's no contest in terms of footballing ability, and their outputs are similar.

But Ronaldo's performances in the latter stages of the CL these past few years have swayed me a little.

IF he wins it with Juve this year .. .well I just don't know.
Click to expand...

Can you be the "the greatest footballing performer in terms of output" (Ronaldo), if you haven't scored a knock out goal in the world cup? (mind you, i'm not saying that Messi is). Even if you disregard the type of competition and just look at numbers, isn't Messi's output similar (better goals per game and will likely end up with more career goals)?
Gerd Muller trumps both in output, in ALL competitions (14 in 13 WC games and 4 goals in just 2 games, inc the final, at Euro 72, an absolute monster in league and European cup footie to boot)
 
Cal? said:
4 CLs, one he didn't play QF onwards, 1 he made the final due to Ovebro, still impressive, but not really GOAT achievement...
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We should also give the 2009 and 2011 CLs to Ronaldo because United may have beaten Chelsea in the final in 2009 and it isn't fair that Barcelona got to play against 10 men in 2011 for a clear red card by Pepe.

Basically, Ronaldo has 7 CLs and Messi just one.
 
RobinLFC said:
Two league titles in the last decade, is that a GOAT achievement?
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Definitely not but CL > any league in Europe isn’t it ? and by the way individually Ronaldo was supreme in league all these seasons except last year but real couldn’t win easy games when he was injured in few season.

He also won pichichi few times in Spain so what’s the problem and before that he had 3 league titles in row wirh utd in much harder league .

Same can’t be said about Messis CL failure in recent years . He was fit but just choked under pressure while Ronaldo absolutely bossed CL
Daysleeper said:
Yup, a guy who has won 4 CL’s chokes in CL. To teams that nearly beat Madrid themselves where Ronaldo did ZILCH outside of Juventus who imploded in the lockeroom at halftime.

Must be pretty bad for a “choker” to destroy Ronaldo time and time again.
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Are you sure Ronaldo didn’t do anything against likes of Atletico ,juve ,bayern ,psg ? Even in 2012,2013,2015 when Madrid didn’t reach final,he scored in all those games where they got knocked out.

Messi couldn’t do it against 10 men Chelsea and inter . Also choked against Atletico ,Roma ,Juventus ,bayern .

Where did he destroy Ronaldo time and again please unless you want to glorify 2011 goal again and again . I already mentioned Ronaldo set record for scoring in most consecutive Clasicos . Barca did win more matched than real during Ronaldo’s time but it isn’t one sided as you want to suggest .

What’s the problem in accepting Messi did fail in CL in recent time ? It doesn’t make him average player by any means just that it keeps people like you honest that Ronaldo is better :)
 
Hemant said:
Definitely not but CL > any league in Europe isn’t it ? and by the way individually Ronaldo was supreme in league all these seasons except last year but real couldn’t win easy games when he was injured in few season.

He also won pichichi few times in Spain so what’s the problem and before that he had 3 league titles in row wirh utd in much harder league .

Same can’t be said about Messis CL failure in recent years . He was fit but just choked under pressure while Ronaldo absolutely bossed CL


Are you sure Ronaldo didn’t do anything against likes of Atletico ,juve ,bayern ,psg ? Even in 2012,2013,2015 when Madrid didn’t reach final,he scored in all those games where they got knocked out.

Messi couldn’t do it against 10 men Chelsea and inter . Also choked against Atletico ,Roma ,Juventus ,bayern .

Where did he destroy Ronaldo time and again please unless you want to glorify 2011 goal again and again . I already mentioned Ronaldo set record for scoring in most consecutive Clasicos . Barca did win more matched than real during Ronaldo’s time but it isn’t one sided as you want to suggest .

What’s the problem in accepting Messi did fail in CL in recent time ? It doesn’t make him average player by any means just that it keeps people like you honest that Ronaldo is better :)
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Messi scored like crazy against Chelsea last year, leads all CL scorers this year while Ronaldo is having one of the worst CL campaigns in regards to scoring of his career.

Ronaldo has won less than 30 percent of the time against Barca, not including CL head to head which Messi also has him beat.

And nearly every year you fern madrod getting absolutely trashed by insane scorelines 5-0, 4-0, 3-0 multiple times with Ronaldo on the pitch. Messi is also the all time leading scorer and assister in Clasico history by a wide margin.

And again, the teams that knocked out Messi in recent years outside of Roma stifled Ronaldo as well. His penalty on 2014 was
Meaningless with the game wrapped up thanks to Bale and Ramos.

Ronaldo did as much as did as Messi did after the QF last year while his teammates dragged him across the finish line.

I think roma was a really really bad choke for Barca and Messi. No question, and I’ve said plenty of times that Ronaldo in recent years in CL has been better than Messi.

Again, no question. But where Ronaldo shows up 4-5 months out of the year Messi usually does it year round. CL is a much smaller sample size than the league although I do agree that CL > Domestic title. Zidane homsef said winning the league is harder than CL which I posted earlier:

http://www.kickoff.com/mobile/news/85050/zinedine-zidane-says-laliga-difficult-wi


A Juventus/Barca final would make this board explode.
 
Daysleeper said:
Messi scored like crazy against Chelsea last year, leads all CL scorers this year while Ronaldo is having one of the worst CL campaigns in regards to scoring of his career.

Ronaldo has won less than 30 percent of the time against Barca, not including CL head to head which Messi also has him beat.

And nearly every year you fern madrod getting absolutely trashed by insane scorelines 5-0, 4-0, 3-0 multiple times with Ronaldo on the pitch. Messi is also the all time leading scorer and assister in Clasico history by a wide margin.

And again, the teams that knocked out Messi in recent years outside of Roma stifled Ronaldo as well. His penalty on 2014 was
Meaningless with the game wrapped up thanks to Bale and Ramos.

Ronaldo did as much as did as Messi did after the QF last year while his teammates dragged him across the finish line.

I think roma was a really really bad choke for Barca and Messi. No question, and I’ve said plenty of times that Ronaldo in recent years in CL has been better than Messi.

Again, no question. But where Ronaldo shows up 4-5 months out of the year Messi usually does it year round. CL is a much smaller sample size than the league although I do agree that CL > Domestic title. Zidane homsef said winning the league is harder than CL which I posted earlier:

http://www.kickoff.com/mobile/news/85050/zinedine-zidane-says-laliga-difficult-wi


A Juventus/Barca final would make this board explode.
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Messi played more Clasicos than Ronaldo so that stat is meaningless .

Ronaldo has been leading CL scorer for last 6 seasons running I think and you only want to mention this season when it’s not even finished ?

I also agree winning league is not easy but if Ronaldo was poor in the league during that time I would have had agreed but if you look his La Liga record it’s nothing but mind boggling. Couple of seasons , he was injured /missed at crucial phase in league where real dropped points .

CL is much smaller sample size but that is where you face good teams in Europe and champion needs to shine . Ronaldo has done it more there than Messi .

Please answer below question honestly :

Imagine Barcelona are 2-0 down against Atlético Madrid this season and facing elimination . Do you fancy Messi to score hattrick and get them past Atletico ? My answer is no and he will struggle under that pressure . He doesn’t give me that confidence in pressure situation but yes he gives me immense confidence and beautiful football when not under much pressure and easy match ups.
 
Hemant said:
Imagine Barcelona are 2-0 down against Atlético Madrid this season and facing elimination . Do you fancy Messi to score hattrick and get them past Atletico ? My answer is no and he will struggle under that pressure . He doesn’t give me that confidence in pressure situation but yes he gives me immense confidence and beautiful football when not under much pressure and easy match ups.
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I'd want Messi for the first 75 minutes and Ronaldo for the last 15.
 
Hemant said:
Messi played more Clasicos than Ronaldo so that stat is meaningless .

Ronaldo has been leading CL scorer for last 6 seasons running I think and you only want to mention this season when it’s not even finished ?

I also agree winning league is not easy but if Ronaldo was poor in the league during that time I would have had agreed but if you look his La Liga record it’s nothing but mind boggling. Couple of seasons , he was injured /missed at crucial phase in league where real dropped points .

CL is much smaller sample size but that is where you face good teams in Europe and champion needs to shine . Ronaldo has done it more there than Messi .

Please answer below question honestly :

Imagine Barcelona are 2-0 down against Atlético Madrid this season and facing elimination . Do you fancy Messi to score hattrick and get them past Atletico ? My answer is no and he will struggle under that pressure . He doesn’t give me that confidence in pressure situation but yes he gives me immense confidence and beautiful football when not under much pressure and easy match ups.
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It’s not about the pressure, teams that sit deep Ronaldo will be much more effective due to his ability to head the ball.

Messi has single handedly turned around ties where it was looking grim for Barca again United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bayern, ac Milan, Real Madrid and Lyon just to name a few.

It’s ridiculous to say it was “pressure” Messi couldn’t handle when he’s comfortably a better CL final performer than Ronaldo. The average Messi performance in the CL finals trumps Ronaldo’s.

Ronaldo was a passenger many times CL finals and was absent in 2016 and 2018 SF but he still got a trophy. How many bad games does Ronaldo get away with where his teammates still pull through in CL? He’s obviously a big part of them getting far no one is denying that, but again, his luxury is being able to go missing (and I understand no player will be amazing every single game) and his teammates who are some of the most celebrated CL players of all time shine through.

As for Clasico if you compare Ronaldo and Messi stats since Ronaldo joined the La Liga Messi stills trumps him by a fair margin in both goals and assists. Madrid have been getting reamed this decade by Barca.
 
Daysleeper said:
It’s not about the pressure, teams that sit deep Ronaldo will be much more effective due to his ability to head the ball.

Messi has single handedly turned around ties where it was looking grim for Barca again United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bayern, ac Milan, Real Madrid and Lyon just to name a few.

It’s ridiculous to say it was “pressure” Messi couldn’t handle when he’s comfortably a better CL final performer than Ronaldo. The average Messi performance in the CL finals trumps Ronaldo’s.

Ronaldo was a passenger many times CL finals and was absent in 2016 and 2018 SF but he still got a trophy. How many bad games does Ronaldo get away with where his teammates still pull through in CL? He’s obviously a big part of them getting far no one is denying that, but again, his luxury is being able to go missing (and I understand no player will be amazing every single game) and his teammates who are some of the most celebrated CL players of all time shine through.

As for Clasico if you compare Ronaldo and Messi stats since Ronaldo joined the La Liga Messi stills trumps him by a fair margin in both goals and assists. Madrid have been getting reamed this decade by Barca.
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Comfortably better CL final performer? Based in what? In the finals I think their performances are about the same.

It's absurd to say Messi's teammates don't bail out the team when he doesn't, he played with a very strong team for most of his career, his 2009 team is IMO better that the Real Madrid team of the last 4-5 years.

Actually Ronaldo has a better goal ratio in La Liga than Messi, even including only the years they played against each other (so no young player thing). Messi has more goals because he played more games. Messi has more assists and better assist ratio though.
In the CL in this period Ronaldo has more goals, assists, goal ratio and assist ratio, and a sharp difference in the knockout stages.
 
Camara said:
Comfortably better CL final performer? Based in what? In the finals I think their performances are about the same.

It's absurd to say Messi's teammates don't bail out the team when he doesn't, he played with a very strong team for most of his career, his 2009 team is IMO better that the Real Madrid team of the last 4-5 years.

Actually Ronaldo has a better goal ratio in La Liga than Messi, even including only the years they played against each other (so no young player thing). Messi has more goals because he played more games. Messi has more assists and better assist ratio though.
In the CL in this period Ronaldo has more goals, assists, goal ratio and assist ratio, and a sharp difference in the knockout stages.
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No, Messi assisted iniesta for that CL goal against Chelsea in 2009, was immense in 2011 final against united, and in 2015 final his run for the second goal led to the Suarez goal that gave Barca the lead.

Messi has never been as poor in a CL final as Ronaldo in 2014, 2016 and 2018
 
Camara said:
Comfortably better CL final performer? Based in what? In the finals I think their performances are about the same.

It's absurd to say Messi's teammates don't bail out the team when he doesn't, he played with a very strong team for most of his career, his 2009 team is IMO better that the Real Madrid team of the last 4-5 years.

Actually Ronaldo has a better goal ratio in La Liga than Messi, even including only the years they played against each other (so no young player thing). Messi has more goals because he played more games. Messi has more assists and better assist ratio though.
In the CL in this period Ronaldo has more goals, assists, goal ratio and assist ratio, and a sharp difference in the knockout stages.
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More double standards. So Messi has more la liga goals because he has played more? That is true. Isn't that also true of Messi in the Champions league overall though? Hasn't Ronny scored more CL goals because he's played more? Doesn't Messi have a better goals per game ratio in the Champions league? Strange how you omitted these facts.
The first part of your post doesn't seem accurate. Of Messi's 3 CL finals, he has been GREAT in 2 of them and average in the 3rd. Can you honestly tell me that of Ronny's 6 finals, he has been GREAT in most of them (like Messi has in his)? Name me 2 Ronny final performances that are better than Messis 09 and 11? Theres a clear diffrerence here. Semis and quarters, however, now that's a different kettle of fish.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
I'd want Messi for the first 75 minutes and Ronaldo for the last 15.
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So
Daysleeper said:
It’s not about the pressure, teams that sit deep Ronaldo will be much more effective due to his ability to head the ball.

Messi has single handedly turned around ties where it was looking grim for Barca again United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bayern, ac Milan, Real Madrid and Lyon just to name a few.

It’s ridiculous to say it was “pressure” Messi couldn’t handle when he’s comfortably a better CL final performer than Ronaldo. The average Messi performance in the CL finals trumps Ronaldo’s.

Ronaldo was a passenger many times CL finals and was absent in 2016 and 2018 SF but he still got a trophy. How many bad games does Ronaldo get away with where his teammates still pull through in CL? He’s obviously a big part of them getting far no one is denying that, but again, his luxury is being able to go missing (and I understand no player will be amazing every single game) and his teammates who are some of the most celebrated CL players of all time shine through.

As for Clasico if you compare Ronaldo and Messi stats since Ronaldo joined the La Liga Messi stills trumps him by a fair margin in both goals and assists. Madrid have been getting reamed this decade by Barca.
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did you just put Arsenal in that list ? Hilarious really.I wish Ronaldo had played against that arsenal in CL with real because he would shred them to parts with that shambolic backline.

And again why you chose to ignore the matches that I mentioned ? I can’t accept that Messi is better than Ronaldo in CL .i do accept he is slightly better against weaker teams.
 
lodner said:
I'd want Messi for the full 90 minutes and Ronaldo cheering from the sidelines. Guaranteed win.
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You know that match is not against real betis but it’s against Atletico Madrid and facing elimination with 2-0 down from 1st leg right ?
 
Daysleeper said:
No, Messi assisted iniesta for that CL goal against Chelsea in 2009, was immense in 2011 final against united, and in 2015 final his run for the second goal led to the Suarez goal that gave Barca the lead.

Messi has never been as poor in a CL final as Ronaldo in 2014, 2016 and 2018
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Though technically it's an assist, it was really just a square pass and iniesta did everything after that.
Not discounting the 2011 final though, Messi was absolutely amazing. Great, great performance.
 
Hemant said:
So

did you just put Arsenal in that list ? Hilarious really.I wish Ronaldo had played against that arsenal in CL with real because he would shred them to parts with that shambolic backline.

And again why you chose to ignore the matches that I mentioned ? I can’t accept that Messi is better than Ronaldo in CL .i do accept he is slightly better against weaker teams.
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Genuine question, do you watch whole matches or highlights?

"Shred to parts" just sounds wrong for a description of a player that's been on the ball maybe 30-40 times per game on average in the last 5 years. He kills opponents and is very, very clinical but he doesn't exactly wreak havoc.

In none of his recent CL wins I've seen Cristiano hitting the heights Messi hit against Bayern, Chelsea or City. That's what I'd describe as shredding to pieces. On the other hand I've never seen Messi as anonymous as Cristiano against Bayern or Liverpool last season.
 
Rito said:
Though technically it's an assist, it was really just a square pass and iniesta did everything after that.
Not discounting the 2011 final though, Messi was absolutely amazing. Great, great performance.
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So we are also discounting tap in goals after great assists? ;)
 
Tostao_80 said:
More double standards. So Messi has more la liga goals because he has played more? That is true. Isn't that also true of Messi in the Champions league overall though? Hasn't Ronny scored more CL goals because he's played more? Doesn't Messi have a better goals per game ratio in the Champions league? Strange how you omitted these facts.
The first part of your post doesn't seem accurate. Of Messi's 3 CL finals, he has been GREAT in 2 of them and average in the 3rd. Can you honestly tell me that of Ronny's 6 finals, he has been GREAT in most of them (like Messi has in his)? Name me 2 Ronny final performances that are better than Messis 09 and 11? Theres a clear diffrerence here. Semis and quarters, however, now that's a different kettle of fish.
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In the years they coincided in Spain (the ones I referred), it's how I said, and I clearly referred this period only.
I was talking in finals in general, including international ones too (of which Messi has 3 (?) and Ronaldo 1 17 year-old (7 minutes don't count)). Both have hits and misses on these. That's why I said they're about the same.

Also how can you (not you Tostão) say Barcelona teammates don't help.
Against Lyon in 2009 Henry had already scored 3 goals across 2 games before Messi scored, against Shaktar in 2011 it was already 3-0 when Messi also scored, in 2015 in the Etihad Suarez scored both goals away, in 2015 against PSG out of Barcelona's 5 goals only 1 was assisted by Messi, also in that year the final against Juventus Messi didn't impact the score directly. And here I'm just talking about years in which Barcelona won.
I'm not saying Messi wasn't decisive or anything in these games and conquests (he scored and assisted in important games), it is just disingenious so say Ronaldo's teammates bailout out his team when Messi's ones in Barcelona don't.
 
Zehner said:
Genuine question, do you watch whole matches or highlights?

"Shred to parts" just sounds wrong for a description of a player that's been on the ball maybe 30-40 times per game on average in the last 5 years. He kills opponents and is very, very clinical but he doesn't exactly wreak havoc.

In none of his recent CL wins I've seen Cristiano hitting the heights Messi hit against Bayern, Chelsea or City. That's what I'd describe as shredding to pieces. On the other hand I've never seen Messi as anonymous as Cristiano against Bayern or Liverpool last season.
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He would have had bullied that arsenal team in the air and with his speed ,finishing I mean.

Yeah you seems to be watching different game when Ronaldo scores hattrick against Atletico ,bayern and brace in final against Juve in later stages of CL. I bet you Messi won’t be able to do that against 3 quality teams in row in one season .he will probably fail at first hurdle against Atletico.
 
Hemant said:
So

did you just put Arsenal in that list ? Hilarious really.I wish Ronaldo had played against that arsenal in CL with real because he would shred them to parts with that shambolic backline.

And again why you chose to ignore the matches that I mentioned ? I can’t accept that Messi is better than Ronaldo in CL .i do accept he is slightly better against weaker teams.
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And what about Ronaldo vs City? Rather anonymous while Messi destroyed them. Messi has more goals against the top 6 in England than ronaldo does.

And again, Messi has turned the tie around many many times in his history. Ronaldo was fantastic in the return leg this year but this was easily the worst Atletico team they’ve had since 2013. Still a great performance.

And if it’s Messi and Ronaldo in the same pitch you’d have to take Messi everytime. Messi has ripped or Ronaldo’s heart head to head many more times than the other way around.
 
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