I was gonna say if that's the criteria then Arsenal challenges for the league almost every season!
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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It's just stupidity. Just posting random nonsense to highlight a player.
This was the City team that got 2 points from their first 4 CL games in group stages and only made it to next round when they beat Roma away.
Chelsea were so comfortable that they had 11 points gap with one game in hand.
It's so hilarious that they disregard headers and penalties and make it sound like its child's play.I can't stand the stupidity.
No wonder because the one they claim to be the goat is so poor at them. Even missed the important ones in cup final! But hey penalties are so easy!
You have link for that?
And this is why barca fans are a joke in this thread. fecking onze dors and arbitrary best team in the world hype all the while pretending to be fair
https://sport360.com/article/footba...na-forward-lionel-messis-extraordinary-season
Thats why Messi is the Goat and Ronaldo shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath. Do the stats no comparison
Thats why Messi is the Goat and Ronaldo shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath. Do the stats no comparison
What complete nonsense...
They didn't even play together from 2014 to 2018...
Anyone who thinks Madrid's midfield was the best in the world last season knows absolutely feck all about football. That's not a matter of opinion, it's just so incredibly wrong it's unbelievable. They're playing at exactly the same level this season than they were in 2017-18.
And before Casemiro arrived, they also did "fairly well" with just the two of them.
It is so stupid to claim they were not the best midfield. Kroos almost reached Xavi stats, had 95% passing accuracy in the CL in 2015 and 2016, 93% in 2017 and 94% in 2018, all while averaging around 2.5 key passes (that's David Silva levels) and around 7 long balls per game. Oh, and he was dispossed less than 0.5 times per game during that time frame. We don't even need to talk about Luka Modric. The La Liga stats aren't any worse by the way but I chose to go with those of the CL because league gamees are just better charity games for you.
The only thing hilarious is your opinion on the best midfield we've seen after Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets.
Nobody would pick kroos modric over xavi, iniesta much less casemiro over busquets.
Correct. Not sure why you posted it since nobody claimed the opposite but yes, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets were better (hence "best midfield since Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets" ).
Ah missed the posts before this, thought it was the usual barca are shit and Madrid so much better posts.
Seriously? whoscored.com?
Presumably you also think France's best players were:
Cabaye in Euro12, Sagna in WC14, Payet in Euro16
That fact is, they were a team in decline even with your favourite superhero there - are you really going to pretend that Ronaldo and co deliberately didn't try to win the league or something?
And Modric, Kroos and Casemiro are clearly the best midfield since Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, though City's midfield have overtaken them in the last 18 months imo
There's been some really terrible arguments from both sides these last few pages. Here's the best argument, actually watching them play.
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/s/www...ter-impressive-displays-for-a3292581.html?ampSeriously? whoscored.com?
Presumably you also think France's best players were:
Cabaye in Euro12, Sagna in WC14, Payet in Euro16
Why not? Only you can see Payet was not that good in euro 2016?
2009 - I watched the first part about the first leg, seriously? One dubious penalty call compared to SIX (4 more clear cut than that Henry) in the 2nd leg!!
If Ballack was sent off, you sure you’d have scored in 6min +injury time?
2010 - let’s forget about Busquets’ antics and talk about everything else, as if that early sending off didn’t matter
2011 - the fact is Pepe didn’t make any contact on Alves who went down and rolled around like he was shot, more theatrics from the Barca Academy of Play-Acting.
Scoring the penalty in the 46’ and playing against 10 wouldn’t win the game, yet somehow scoring 1 in the shootout when 2 other teammates missed does?
I have now watched the rest of that YouTube, laughable whitewashing of the 2nd leg
A tl;dw of my favourite arguments from the video:
They don't know what they are talking about!
- Barca were denied some calls in the first leg
- Barca were denied some calls in 2005 and 2006 against Chelsea
- Drogba bent his knee when jumping for a header and should have been given a red.
- A hand in an unnatural position is not a penalty unless it's intentional
- England is a superpower and manipulated people with false information about the match
- Also the tearful narration at the end on Barca being robbed of a league title in 2014!
1 bad offside call in a 1vs1 situation
1 action were Ballack could've been ejected with a red card
1 action were Ballack could've been ejected with a 2nd yellow
1 missed penalty call
1 hand ball in the area that can be interpreted as voluntary or not.
1 ejection were Abidal doesn't even touch Anelka
vs
1 50/50 penalty call (Drogba)
2 hand balls in the area that can be interpreted as voluntary or not
That leg was just a media outrage, English media got denied of their dreamed final, a tale of redemption, Spanish media (Real Madrid media) started an outrage because that game meant Barcelona had a shot at a treble on a nightmare year for Real Madrid.
Nothing more than that, @Cal? if you want to buy it, your call. I don't agree with the whole video, but I don't think there's objective content for that matter in youtube.
2015-2016 already had Casemiro helping them defensively, they only missed him in 14/15, when they also missed Modric in the Juve leg.
As I repeated from here to the moon so far, the only year they didn't reach the final in the last 5 years was the one without Modric... AND Casemiro, that's not the midfield we're talking about, and even with Ronaldo scoring 2 goals in that leg they didn't go through... because that midfield, as bad as you say they've been, are the thing that differentiates Real Madrid winning 4 UCL and Real Madrid not reaching a single final.
Ronaldo has been there all that time, his goals have been there too, and that trio in midfield has put them that step above, because not even Ronaldo, Messi or Pele can win you a UCL title alone, so you don't need from Kroos-Modric-Casemiro to reach the heights that Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta were at, you just want them to be better than the rest of midfields, like ours was.
Basically that playing for Real Madrid (and with Florentino connections) lands you the better deal to win the Ballon d'Or, yeah.
If you look at it from our POV it's not just dissatisfaction from earlier eras, they were benching James, Isco and Morata and we had Arda, Andre Gomes, Denis Suarez, Munir or Sandro at that same point. There's the role of squad players, and then there's the 75M squad player.
Is the same but the other way now, we have a 120M player benched in most games, Coutinho isn't too hot? Right, but still, you get a certain comfort when the camera shows the bench and you see him seated there, instead of Andre Gomes.
Etoo wasn't 1 on 1
Penalty call (Henry?) - it just shows your ridiculous bias you claim this is 1 missed penalty call and call the Drogba one 50/50, both were VERY clear shirt pulling in the box!!!
Handball in the box, seriously? That Ballack handball with Messi kicking the ball up onto his hand from 2 feet away? Comparing that to Pique palming the ball or Etoo sticking his arm into the air?
I see you've also conveniently ignored the Malouda claim and the 2nd Drogba claim, granted the Anelka ones was 50/50.
Abidal should have been sent off for his last man foul on drogba anyway.
Is this bias or piss take?
You know this and many other things make me think whether people are just taking these arguments too seriously. I can't be bothered to adopt it's not true but feck it I'm gonna argue it anyway attitude for the life of me.
Those stats
Passing percentages from passing sideways and being a possession team, long balls from turning the play from side to side and key passes from set pieces 99% of the time.
Watch the damn games. Casemiro-Kroos-Modric is probably the best midfield since Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta, I never said they weren’t.
They were the best midfield in the world for a grand total of one season though. One. Bayern were much better in 2015/16, City and a couple others were much better in 2017/18. This year there isn’t even an argument for it purely because of the fact Ronaldo isn’t there and you know damn well that if Ronaldo was a Madrid player you’d still be arguing that is a great midfield without any bit of shame.
Kroos has not in any way been a better football player than the likes of Verratti, Thiago, Pogba, etc in the past 4/5 years. Modric will rightly be remembered as a very special player, Kroos was far from it.
I also do not treat league games as charity games in the slightest. Feel free to keep pretending otherwise.
Correlation isn’t causation.
They were twice the team in 2011-12 than in 2015-16 with the best midfield in the world that couldn’t control one single game... in 2012 they lost on penalties, in 2016 they won on penalties. Was that Modric and Kroos having an impact? How insanely biased to you have to be to argue that?
Compare the 2018 semifinal with the 2013 one... was that Modric and Kroos having an impact too? They weren’t any better...
It’s like saying that Madrid won the Champions League from 2016 to 2018 because those were the years where Aleix Vidal played for Barca. Just because it happened doesn’t mean it’s the cause for it ffs and it obviously wasn’t to anyone who knows anything about football.
Casemiro-Kroos-Modric had a grand total of one season as the best midfield in the world and they needed Isco to overcrowd the opposition’s midfield and be able to control games. One season as the best midfield in the world and they’re getting compared to fecking Busquets and Xaviesta. Anyone who argues they were a better midfield in 2015/16 than Bayern’s or that they were anywhere near City’s midfield in 2017/18 either knows feck all about football or is here for propaganda. It’s not a matter of opinion, you’re just wrong.
Kroos hasn’t been good enough to start for Real Madrid for two years now. It’s football’s biggest mystery how he has the reputation he has.
Those stats
Passing percentages from passing sideways and being a possession team, long balls from turning the play from side to side and key passes from set pieces 99% of the time.
Watch the damn games. Casemiro-Kroos-Modric is probably the best midfield since Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta, I never said they weren’t.
They were the best midfield in the world for a grand total of one season though. One. Bayern were much better in 2015/16, City and a couple others were much better in 2017/18. This year there isn’t even an argument for it purely because of the fact Ronaldo isn’t there and you know damn well that if Ronaldo was a Madrid player you’d still be arguing that is a great midfield without any bit of shame.
Kroos has not in any way been a better football player than the likes of Verratti, Thiago, Pogba, etc in the past 4/5 years. Modric will rightly be remembered as a very special player, Kroos was far from it.
I also do not treat league games as charity games in the slightest. Feel free to keep pretending otherwise.
Yeah, of course only sideway passes and set pieces. Sometimes I wonder if you've actually got eyeballs. You should volunteer as a test subject for studies on selective perception. The bullshit you are able to convince yourself of is really remarkable.
And no, I wouldn't, because the midfield plays shit. Watching the damn games is an advice you should follow yourself. I guarantee you, if you'd suffer from temporary amnesia just for one game and forgot all you knew about Ronaldo while still retaining your general knowledge of the sport, you'd see everything different. Everything. This obsession can't be healthy.
Ah there it is. No arguments to refute while not looking stupid so back to the psychological analysis you go
The fact that that comment comes from someone who spent the 2017/18 season arguing Real Madrid’s midfield was the best midfield in the world is the highest level of unintentional irony and hypocrisy ever accomplished. Congratulations.
Tell me again... how many years was Casemiro-Kroos-Modric the best midfield in the world?
Tell me again how superior they were to Bayern’s midfield in 2015/16 and how superior they were to City’s midfield in 2017/18.
One year as the best midfield in the world and not a bit of shame in having comparisons to Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta.
Should have at least had the decency to keep pretending they’re the best midfield in the world once Ronaldo left. But no, Ronaldo left and YOU were the one that completely changed opinions on those players as soon as it happened despite them playing at the exact same level.
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Those stats
Passing percentages from passing sideways and being a possession team, long balls from turning the play from side to side and key passes from set pieces 99% of the time.
Watch the damn games. Casemiro-Kroos-Modric is probably the best midfield since Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta, I never said they weren’t.
They were the best midfield in the world for a grand total of one season though. One. Bayern were much better in 2015/16, City and a couple others were much better in 2017/18. This year there isn’t even an argument for it purely because of the fact Ronaldo isn’t there and you know damn well that if Ronaldo was a Madrid player you’d still be arguing that is a great midfield without any bit of shame.
Kroos has not in any way been a better football player than the likes of Verratti, Thiago, Pogba, etc in the past 4/5 years. Modric will rightly be remembered as a very special player, Kroos was far from it.
I also do not treat league games as charity games in the slightest. Feel free to keep pretending otherwise.
Where was Verratti in the last UCL legs? He doesn't have any competence at national level, and hasn't shocked me in the UCL, mentioning Thiago there... he can't even be healthy for a whole season, it's like comparing Bale to Salah, Pogba gets another mention, how much UCL time has he played? Such a deviation from your usual "only the most important games matter".
Also, you love passing stats now? You'll be happy to see this
Ah there it is. No arguments to refute while not looking stupid so back to the psychological analysis you go
The fact that that comment comes from someone who spent the 2017/18 season arguing Real Madrid’s midfield was the best midfield in the world is the highest level of unintentional irony and hypocrisy ever accomplished. Congratulations.
Tell me again... how many years was Casemiro-Kroos-Modric the best midfield in the world?
Tell me again how superior they were to Bayern’s midfield in 2015/16 and how superior they were to City’s midfield in 2017/18.
One year as the best midfield in the world and not a bit of shame in having comparisons to Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta.
Should have at least had the decency to keep pretending they’re the best midfield in the world once Ronaldo left. But no, Ronaldo left and YOU were the one that completely changed opinions on those players as soon as it happened despite them playing at the exact same level.
Casemiro, Kroos and Modric weren't superior to Arturo Vidal, Thiago and 35 y/o Xabi Alonso. Ok.
Where was Verratti in the last UCL legs? He doesn't have any competence at national level, and hasn't shocked me in the UCL, mentioning Thiago there... he can't even be healthy for a whole season, it's like comparing Bale to Salah, Pogba gets another mention, how much UCL time has he played? Such a deviation from your usual "only the most important games matter".
Also, you love passing stats now? You'll be happy to see this
I literally said I didn’t care for the passing stats and you get out of it that I do care about them...
That graphic is completely made up propaganda by the way.
Welcome to Messi fanboyism 101:
Step 1 - Indian teenager with a twitter account called MessiMagic or CoutinhoForever make something up (be it a heat map, a statistic, a graphic, whatever... anything goes) they share it, a bunch of other fanboys retweet it and it spreads.
Step 2 - One of those fanboys is so impressed by the stats/graphic/heat map they don’t even care if it’s true or not and they share it to reddit where a bunch of fans upvote it to the top
Step 3 - after a few hours someone comes along that questions its source and people get called out for it
Step 4 - Ishdalar/Daysleaper/etc don’t care for sources and they spread it to redcafe soon after, others spread it to different forums... and a completely made up load of garbage becomes the truth in people’s minds since there’s nothing Messi fanboys love more than shoving either irrelevant or fake statistics down every football fan’s throat.
If it’s a slow day you might even see it make some news articles on top of it too.
And yes, Verratti, Pogba and Thiago all played better than Kroos in high profile games too. The difference is they didn’t have Ronaldo to win them the ties.
If Kroos goes out to Schalke in 2015, Wolfsburg in 2016, Bayern in 2017 and PSG in 2018 the same way he went out vs Ajax in 2019 then he’d have been rated properly. Not every midfielder gets to play with Ronaldo though. Verratti, Thiago and Pogba don't have the benefit of being able to play so bad away to Wolfsburg that they get subbed off 60 minutes into the game and have a player dragging them through it, they don't have the benefit of being benched by Mateo Kovacic like Modric and Kroos were in 2017/18 vs PSG and still make it through.
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Easily too. 35 year old Xabi Alonso was a better player than Casemiro.
Vidal and Thiago were better than Kroos and Modric that season. And they played with Muller and 2 of those 3 behind him plenty of times.
Casemiro-Kroos-Modric played 15 games together in the 2015-16 season. Pretty much all of those were just for 60 minutes or so too.
Even if you believe they were the best midfield in the world then... you're comparing them to Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta while admitting they were the best midfield in the world for a total of two seasons.
Jesus.
Casemiro-Kroos-Modric played 15 games together but yeah, they were the best midfield in the world despite not being able to control one single game all season. Brilliant.
You're just going to leave shite comments like that one or reply to my last one? Probably best not to bother, you're right
What would you guess Ronaldo/Messi career goal tally to end up at?
Total:
Club:
International:
My guesstimate would be that both beat Pele's (non friendly) tally, Ronaldo ends up with more than Messi, but doesn't make Ali Daei's 105 international goals. Thoughts?
Total:
Club:
International:
My guesstimate would be that both beat Pele's (non friendly) tally, Ronaldo ends up with more than Messi, but doesn't make Ali Daei's 105 international goals. Thoughts?
Ah there it is. No arguments to refute while not looking stupid so back to the psychological analysis you go
The fact that that comment comes from someone who spent the 2017/18 season arguing Real Madrid’s midfield was the best midfield in the world is the highest level of unintentional irony and hypocrisy ever accomplished. Congratulations.
Tell me again... how many years was Casemiro-Kroos-Modric the best midfield in the world?
Tell me again how superior they were to Bayern’s midfield in 2015/16 and how superior they were to City’s midfield in 2017/18.
One year as the best midfield in the world and not a bit of shame in having comparisons to Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta.
Should have at least had the decency to keep pretending they’re the best midfield in the world once Ronaldo left. But no, Ronaldo left and YOU were the one that completely changed opinions on those players as soon as it happened despite them playing at the exact same level.
No, at least four years as the best midfield in the world (and still not on the level of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, who does even claim so?). No matter how much you repeat it, it certainly wasn't one year. In 2018 you could make a case for City but Kroos and Modric would look even better than the Silvas, de Bruyne and Gündogan if they were to be coached by Pep.
The fact that you think Alonso was better than Casemiro and Thiago better than Kroos says everything, really. I mean, have you seen how vulnerable Alonso was to pressing at Madrid? But that you just stated the duo Arturo Vidal and Thiago are better than Kroos and Luka Modric tops even that.
This is just ridiculous. Your perception is completely distorted. If Kroos or Modric had played for Barca you'd sure as hell have them in the same tier as Iniesta and Xavi. Of course they aren't but im sure you'd find a way to convince yourself of that in the same way you convinced yourself Ivan fecking Rakitic is better than Kroos.
Jesus, the things I'm discussing with you. This is just unreal.
Funny, last time I checked 5 good games a season were enough for you to proclaim someone is the best in the world, so 15 games should be enough to be considered the best midfield, right?
The best current midfield is de Bruyne, David Silva and Fernandinho by the way, how many games have they played together I wonder?
My view on things:
- Kroos has generally played at great level for every season bar the present one.
- Casemiro has been rather poor this season and the last one, but quite good the two previous seasons.
- Modric has easily been the best midfielder in the world since the 2013 summer. Easily. Even considering his off form periods. Against Ajax at home this season the battle of midfields was Modric, and just Modric, vs the world.
- In no world, fantastic or real one, were Thiago, Alonso and Vidal a better midfield than Modric, Kroos and Casemiro. It wasn't even close. And if we add Isco and Marcelo who have a lot of influence too, even less so.
- Kroos has generally played at great level for every season bar the present one.
- Casemiro has been rather poor this season and the last one, but quite good the two previous seasons.
- Modric has easily been the best midfielder in the world since the 2013 summer. Easily. Even considering his off form periods. Against Ajax at home this season the battle of midfields was Modric, and just Modric, vs the world.
- In no world, fantastic or real one, were Thiago, Alonso and Vidal a better midfield than Modric, Kroos and Casemiro. It wasn't even close. And if we add Isco and Marcelo who have a lot of influence too, even less so.
Thanks.
"Completely made up propaganda"
"Messi fanboyism"
"Vidal and Thiago were better than Kroos and Modric, but they didn't have Ronaldo to win games"
I can't take you seriously anymore
"Messi fanboyism"
"Vidal and Thiago were better than Kroos and Modric, but they didn't have Ronaldo to win games"
I can't take you seriously anymore
They didn’t even fecking play together for four years yet they’ve been the best midfield in the world for at least four years. Can you count to 4???
Jesus Christ.... this is so incredibly stupid there’s no possible argument against it besides telling you over and over how stupid it is.
The fact you still say they were the best midfield in the world in 2017-18 is the epitome of shameless stupidity.
They’re playing exactly the same way in 2018-19 than they were in 2017-18, only difference is Ronaldo isn’t there and as soon as he was gone your opinion on them completely changed.
This is like having Hitler sending me memes about my poor ethics.
I didn’t say they were better than modric. Modric has been the best midfielder in the world in the past 5 years.
People who think Kroos has been better than Thiago, Verratti or Pogba simply do not watch the games. He hasn’t been good enough to start for Real Madrid for two years now.
So yes, completely made up propaganda. You can post more completely false statistic if you want without any bit of shame about it. Painful how low you’re willing to get, you don’t even slightly care about the truth.
You and Zehner are the two people here willing to suck eachother off while purposefully lying just to keep a discussion going. Mocking me for things you do isn’t the smartest thing in the world... not unexpected though.
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If in the 15 games they had completely dominated the best teams in the world rather than get completely overrun by Wolfsburg and not dominate ONE single match all season... then yeah.
I’m sorry that logic was too difficult for you to understand and translate it into other scenarios.
I recommend seeing a shrink to resolve the PTSD of the past 3 years rather than fight against it with pure denial.
14/15, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18. These are four seasons of Kroos and Modric in midfield and that alone was enough to have the best CM at that time. They still were accompanied by Isco and James Rodriguez occasionally with Kroos playing as a DLP so yeah, they had the best individual quality in CM as soon as 2014/15 and were up there even in 2013/14.
the RM midfield was very overrated. they got dominated in many important games but got forgotten because ronaldo was bailing them out. modric and kroos probably have 10 goals between them in like 5 years. extreme overrating. I just checked the possesion for 2016 CL final and and saw even athletico had more of it. and some people tried to compare with Xavi and Iniesta??
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