Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Ishdalar]

Did I say Ronaldo played with crap players only? And that Messi only played with great ones Mr. 'Distorting narratives'?

Learn to read.

Ronaldo played with plenty of great players and Messi played with plenty of crap ones. Fact of the matter is overall one had nowhere near the help the other had throughout his career. Didn't need it in order to be more successful either.

Good shit asking me how Modric and Kroos are inferior to Xavi and Iniesta... that's some good shit right there.

Xavi and Iniesta were winning 2 Euros and 1 World Cup without Messi. Without Ronaldo, Kroos and Modric got humiliated in the round of 16 of the Champions League after 8 straight years of Madrid getting to the semifinals. It's a knockout competition though so you can always pin it on luck as usual while blatanty ignoring the impact they had on their teams.

Yeah good shit, maybe if you could grasp around the titanic concept of Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Varane and Ramos being of the same nationality, instead of different ones (and still, with great international performances) like Xavi and Iniesta were, you could stop talking about how much better Xavi and Iniesta were because they got to play at the international level with the same players they did at club level, usually that's a weird thing.

I was pointing out that Messi needed his team-mates in a major way, which doesn't fit into Team Messi's agenda that Ronaldo only won multiple CLs due to Ramos and Bale.

2009 - It must be nice to feel so good about yourselves after the biggest scandal ever in a CL game. Chelsea could have anywhere between 3 to 6 penalties.

200 penalties, scandal



You won't even watch it, you don't want to see what's in it.

2010 - Uefalona complaining about refereeing? You may as well complain about the volcano eruption.

So, it didn't happen? Remember the 2005 leg vs Chelsea? Uefalona

2011 - Another big game decided by the referee before Messi did anything. Ronaldo would probably have scored against 10 men, but we'd never know.

Why would he have the benefit of scoring against 10 men if Barcelona don't get a red for going to war against Real Madrid? Are you ok?. Maybe when opponents start kicking us left and right the ref shouldn't show red cards, because, you know, we should just win against 11 men while being kicked around like a bottle, for your enjoyment.

2012 - Messi missed a penalty during the game that would definitely have won it. Ronaldo missed a penalty during the shootout that could have prolonged it. Spot the difference.

Of course, scoring a penalty in the minute 46' definitely wins the leg, missing the first penalty in a shootout "just prolongs it".

Also, are you seriously equating 2011 Chelsea with 2011 Bayern?

I mean... they faced eachother in the final... and Chelsea won?.

 

[Ishdalar]

Can't argue what I said so you pretend I said something else. Only need one more for the hattrick.

Biggest achievement ever, surpassing Pelé and Maradona to put his name besides the true GOAT, Seedorf, right now, he's just in the Bosingwa/Paulo Ferreira tier.

Meanwhile Belodedici did it the hipster way, who needs to win it with United/Real when you can do it with Steaua and Red Star, right?.

But he won it with Jugovic, Prosinecki, Savivecic, Mihajlovic, Piturca, Lacatus and Boloni... Scholes, Modric, Giggs or Marcelo have nothing on those guys.

 

[mdvmia]

Yeah good shit, maybe if you could grasp around the titanic concept of Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Varane and Ramos being of the same nationality, instead of different ones (and still, with great international performances) like Xavi and Iniesta were, you could stop talking about how much better Xavi and Iniesta were because they got to play at the international level with the same players they did at club level, usually that's a weird thing.

I agree with the other things you said but Xavi and Iniesta were far superior to Modric and Kroos. Regardless of international trophies won, they were simply much better footballers and also complemented each other perfectly as a duo.

 

[Cal?]

Yeah good shit, maybe if you could grasp around the titanic concept of Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Varane and Ramos being of the same nationality, instead of different ones (and still, with great international performances) like Xavi and Iniesta were, you could stop talking about how much better Xavi and Iniesta were because they got to play at the international level with the same players they did at club level, usually that's a weird thing.

200 penalties, scandal



You won't even watch it, you don't want to see what's in it.

So, it didn't happen? Remember the 2005 leg vs Chelsea? Uefalona

Why would he have the benefit of scoring against 10 men if Barcelona don't get a red for going to war against Real Madrid? Are you ok?. Maybe when opponents start kicking us left and right the ref shouldn't show red cards, because, you know, we should just win against 11 men while being kicked around like a bottle, for your enjoyment.

Of course, scoring a penalty in the minute 46' definitely wins the leg, missing the first penalty in a shootout "just prolongs it".

I mean... they faced eachother in the final... and Chelsea won?.

2009 - I watched the first part about the first leg, seriously? One dubious penalty call compared to SIX (4 more clear cut than that Henry) in the 2nd leg!!

If Ballack was sent off, you sure you’d have scored in 6min +injury time?
2010 - let’s forget about Busquets’ antics and talk about everything else, as if that early sending off didn’t matter
2011 - the fact is Pepe didn’t make any contact on Alves who went down and rolled around like he was shot, more theatrics from the Barca Academy of Play-Acting.

Scoring the penalty in the 46’ and playing against 10 wouldn’t win the game, yet somehow scoring 1 in the shootout when 2 other teammates missed does?

I have now watched the rest of that YouTube, laughable whitewashing of the 2nd leg

 

[Ishdalar]

I agree with the other things you said but Xavi and Iniesta were far superior to Modric and Kroos. Regardless of international trophies won, they were simply much better footballers and also complemented each other perfectly as a duo.

I've said this before, Xavi and Iniesta, at their peak as a two men unit, were better than Modric and Kroos, I may negotiate how much, but on that I think I have to agree.

But I've said before, the level of your achievements is related to your opposition, even if Xavi and Iniesta were better than Kroos-Modric, they also faced better defenders and midfielders than the Real Madrid duo, the relative strength (or level of dominance from both duos) is barely the same.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Did I say Ronaldo played with crap players only? And that Messi only played with great ones Mr. 'Distorting narratives'?

Learn to read.

Ronaldo played with plenty of great players and Messi played with plenty of crap ones. Fact of the matter is overall one had nowhere near the help the other had throughout his career. Didn't need it in order to be more successful either.

Good shit asking me how Modric and Kroos are inferior to Xavi and Iniesta... that's some good shit right there.

Xavi and Iniesta were winning 2 Euros and 1 World Cup without Messi. Without Ronaldo, Kroos and Modric got humiliated in the round of 16 of the Champions League after 8 straight years of Madrid getting to the semifinals. It's a knockout competition though so you can always pin it on luck as usual while blatanty ignoring the impact they had on their teams.

You forget that Real Madrid were crap in the league last season even with Ronaldo.

 

[Peyroteo]

Biggest achievement ever, surpassing Pelé and Maradona to put his name besides the true GOAT, Seedorf, right now, he's just in the Bosingwa/Paulo Ferreira tier.

Meanwhile Belodedici did it the hipster way, who needs to win it with United/Real when you can do it with Steaua and Red Star, right?.

But he won it with Jugovic, Prosinecki, Savivecic, Mihajlovic, Piturca, Lacatus and Boloni... Scholes, Modric, Giggs or Marcelo have nothing on those guys.

Yeah Seedorf was his team's best player.... as were those guys. What a fantastic counterargument if you know feck all what you're talking about. It's one thing to win while being a squad player, it's another to win while being the team's best player. No shit.. welcome to sports.

I guess Michael Jordan or Tom Brady being the best because they've won it X times is a shite argument given plenty of far worse squad players won it more times. Even the stat-obsessed americans know about the intangibles. Di Stefano winning it 5 times being a major reason why he's considered as good as he is is a shit argument too as is Maradona winning the 86 World Cup...

Obviously you take the teams around them and their importance in winning those trophies into consideration when discussing how good a player is... Obviously. Welcome to any sports argument ever. How out of an argument do you have to be to purposefully misunderstand basic logic?

Besides, Seedorf winning what he did even while being just one more player rather than the star clearly did a lot for his reputation, fairly too. Pogba winning the World Cup also did a lot for his reputation, as it should. Same for any other player ever.

 

[Peyroteo]

You forget that Real Madrid were crap in the league last season even with Ronaldo.

So what?

You can afford to have a bad year in the league when you've won it the previous year and you go past Dortmund, Tottenham, PSG, Juventus, Bayern and Liverpool to win a third consecutive Champions League in what is arguably the best club achievement in football history.

You can't afford to do the same following a bad league season while getting humiliated at your own stadium by Ajax in the round of 16 of the Champions League.

 

[Cal?]

Try this video

 

[Peyroteo]

I've said this before, Xavi and Iniesta, at their peak as a two men unit, were better than Modric and Kroos, I may negotiate how much, but on that I think I have to agree.

But I've said before, the level of your achievements is related to your opposition, even if Xavi and Iniesta were better than Kroos-Modric, they also faced better defenders and midfielders than the Real Madrid duo, the relative strength (or level of dominance from both duos) is barely the same.

That is hilariously wrong.

Kroos and Modric had a grand total of one year where they were a dominant midfield. Last year they were as crap of a midfield as they've been this year. Are you seriously going to argue they've been anywhere near the best midfield in the world in the past 2 years?

2014-15 and 2015-16 they were good but without Casemiro helping defensively it was horribly unbalanced for most of those years. 2016-17 was the year in which they dominated and they needed Casemiro behind them for protection and Isco in there with them to overcrowd the opposition in midfield...

Comparing Kroos-Modric to Xavi-Iniesta is bonkers. Makes it easy to see you're anything but a Barcelona fan too.

 

[mdvmia]

Try this video

Chelsea vs Barcelona 2009

•Decisions against Chelsea: 3-4 penalties turned down
•Decisions against Barcelona: 1 penalty turned down, 1 player wrongly sent off, 1 Chelsea player not sent off, 1v1 situation ruled offside

Clear robbery according to Cal

Inter vs Barcelona 2010

•Decisions against Inter: Player wrongly sent off
•Decisions against Barcelona: Two penalties turned down, wrongly disallowed goal, offside goal for Inter

Nothing to see here according to Cal because Busquets dived

 

[Cal?]

Chelsea vs Barcelona 2009

•Decisions against Chelsea: 3-4 penalties turned down
•Decisions against Barcelona: 1 penalty turned down, 1 player wrongly sent off, 1 Chelsea player not sent off, 1v1 situation ruled offside

Clear robbery according to Cal

Inter vs Barcelona 2010

•Decisions against Inter: Player wrongly sent off
•Decisions against Barcelona: Two penalties turned down, wrongly disallowed goal, offside goal for Inter

Nothing to see here according to Cal because Busquets dived

3-4? Could easily have been 6

Chelsea player not sent off was at the 84’, Busquets’ dive was early in the game.

You’re doing false equivalence almost as well as the GOP

 

[Prometheus]

Sorry for the late reply, I was in Valencia this week and came back just last night. Off topic, in Valencia they have an idea about why individual trophies are end dressed in white

Spoiler: Fallas 2019

What's the meaning behind it? Is the joke that it's all fixed? I'm pretty slow today!

Thanks for reply again. I'm convinced now that Barcelona fans are in a state of perpetual dissatisfaction since they have been subjected to that beautiful dominant football with peak Iniesta/Xavi! What you said about James and Morata have done for them is what one would expect squad players to do and in fact I'd say they have fallen short of even that in general. Nothing that would give any discernible edge to Real Madrid in terms of quality in my opinion.

 

[Peyroteo]

People always remember the ref decisions that favoured the team that won and forget when it went the other way around.

Pep's Barca deserved those 2 CLs. If anything they underperformed to only win 2 in 4 years.

 

[Prometheus]

A tl;dw of my favourite arguments from the video:

• Barca were denied some calls in the first leg
• Barca were denied some calls in 2005 and 2006 against Chelsea
• Drogba bent his knee when jumping for a header and should have been given a red.
• A hand in an unnatural position is not a penalty unless it's intentional
• England is a superpower and manipulated people with false information about the match
• Also the tearful narration at the end on Barca being robbed of a league title in 2014!

They don't know what they are talking about!

 

[Tostao_80]

So what?

You can afford to have a bad year in the league when you've won it the previous year and you go past Dortmund, Tottenham, PSG, Juventus, Bayern and Liverpool to win a third consecutive Champions League in what is arguably the best club achievement in football history.

You can't afford to do the same following a bad league season while getting humiliated at your own stadium by Ajax in the round of 16 of the Champions League.

More logic from Cristiano stans. How on earth is 1 league title and 3 consecutive CLs arguably better than Di Stefanos 4 league titles and 5 European cups in 6 years ( the 5 being 5 in a row)? Its clear what's more impressive. Di Stefanos team were the best at home AND abroad, AND won in a row, not 3. Football did not start in 2008. Know your history, and also what you are talking about.

 

[Prometheus]

People always remember the ref decisions that favoured the team that won and forget when it went the other way around.

Pep's Barca deserved those 2 CLs. If anything they underperformed to only win 2 in 4 years.

I don't think they deserved it! It's true that you recall only the ref decisions that favoured the other team, but it isn't a case of that for this game. That game is pretty much universally remembered by all fans for the ref decisions. Barca were definitely a better team everyone in that period, and perhaps even underperformed, but that doesn't entitle you to anything.

 

[Tostao_80]

Ahh , the meltdown..
Why don't you retire from this thread ( like your idol) and come back again in full glory? Bring your onze D'or stats also, while you are at it

You need to work harder than that. Oh dear, says the guy who, based on his "stats, argues for the likes of Lampard over Zidane and Muller over Diego. Cristiano stans, come on, do better. What is your stats based top 5? Muller, Cristiano, Van Nistelrooy, Inzhagi, Bican? What utter nonsense.

 

[Zehner]

That is hilariously wrong.

That is according to you. Just because you decided that your new strategy is to downplay the Madrid midfield, it doesn't mean everybody has to agree. Kroos, Modric and Casemiro were comfortably the best midfield in the world from 2014 to 2018 in my and many others' opinions. The only midfield able to keep up with that was City's. And I don't think City's midfield is close in terms of individual quality to it's Madrid counterpart when it was at it's peak. Probably the best midfield we've seen in the last 20 years besides the famous Barca one.

 

[Rito]

You need to work harder than that. Oh dear, says the guy who, based on his "stats, argues for the likes of Lampard over Zidane and Muller over Diego. Cristiano stans, come on, do better. What is your stats based top 5? Muller, Cristiano, Van Nistelrooy, Inzhagi, Bican? What utter nonsense.

You are becoming insufferable. Quote me where I said this, or feck off with your Onze D'or stats.

I am sure your top two footballer will be Messi and denilson,based on your intelligence.

 

[Prometheus]

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/bar...his-best-but-it-is-his-most-memorable?src=com

Good article

"...the most beautiful, the most technically brilliant hat trick of goals that football has seen."

Is it even the best hat trick scored for Barcelona? Off the top of my head I think Rivaldo's was better.

 

[Peyroteo]

That is according to you. Just because you decided that your new strategy is to downplay the Madrid midfield, it doesn't mean everybody has to agree. Kroos, Modric and Casemiro were comfortably the best midfield in the world from 2014 to 2018 in my and many others' opinions. The only midfield able to keep up with that was City's. And I don't think City's midfield is close in terms of individual quality to it's Madrid counterpart when it was at it's peak. Probably the best midfield we've seen in the last 20 years besides the famous Barca one.

What complete nonsense...

They didn't even play together from 2014 to 2018... Casemiro arrived in 2015/16 and he wasn't a starter for plenty of it, Modric got injured in 2014/15 for half the season. Casemiro/Kroos/Modric happened for 1 season and a half at a high standard. 2015/16 when Casemiro was introduced by Benitez and ended the lack of defensive contribution in that Madrid midfield and then 2016/17 which was the year when it all worked. by 2017/18 it was a complete disaster, they even gave up on that midfield for large part of the season. Played a 4-4-2 with Vasquez-Kovacic-Casemiro-Asensio away at PSG. Kroos and Modric both on the bench.

Anyone who thinks Madrid's midfield was the best in the world last season knows absolutely feck all about football. That's not a matter of opinion, it's just so incredibly wrong it's unbelievable. They're playing at exactly the same level this season than they were in 2017-18.

 

[Tostao_80]

You are becoming insufferable. Quote me where I said this, or feck off with your Onze D'or stats.

I am sure your top two footballer will be Messi and denilson,based on your intelligence.

• Google Pippo Inzhagi (or Simone) if you like goal poachers. We are talking GOATdom here. Keep your penalties and headers. If you cant stand the heat, get out, or call call mr Bierhoff, he was great at headers too. Bring it on.

 

[Peyroteo]

More logic from Cristiano stans. How on earth is 1 league title and 3 consecutive CLs arguably better than Di Stefanos 4 league titles and 5 European cups in 6 years ( the 5 being 5 in a row)? Its clear what's more impressive. Di Stefanos team were the best at home AND abroad, AND won in a row, not 3. Football did not start in 2008. Know your history, and also what you are talking about.

Winning 5 back then was easier, the tournament was completely different. It was common for teams to win it back to back or even 3 times in a row in the past format. A lot harder to do now.

Madrid with Di Stefano won 2 league titles in the 5 years they won the European Cup... and they weren't playing against a super Barcelona team like this Madrid team did. Maybe it's you who should know your history and learn what you're talking about. Besides, I said 'arguably the best'. Not 'the best'. They're definitely comparable.

I don't think I'll ever see a team winning 4 Champions Leagues in 5 years ever again as long as the format remains the same. Don't think it's a stretch at all to call it one of the best club achievements in football history.

 

[Prometheus]

• Google Pippo Inzhagi (or Simone) if you like goal poachers. We are talking GOATdom here. Keep your penalties and headers. If you cant stand the heat, get out, or call call mr Bierhoff, he was great at headers too. Bring it on.

Take a break, mate!

 

[Cal?]

A tl;dw of my favourite arguments from the video:

• Barca were denied some calls in the first leg
• Barca were denied some calls in 2005 and 2006 against Chelsea
• Drogba bent his knee when jumping for a header and should have been given a red.
• A hand in an unnatural position is not a penalty unless it's intentional
• England is a superpower and manipulated people with false information about the match
• Also the tearful narration at the end on Barca being robbed of a league title in 2014!

They don't know what they are talking about!

I also liked the bit about what the game plan was for the 2nd leg. Barca came to attack, yet only had 1 shot on target.

Chelsea played on the break and had many shots on target, it's almost as if the aim of the game was possession rather than goals.

 

[roonster09]

City were defending champs at the time

When Moyes was manager, ManUtd wasn't the best team in the league just because they were defending champions.

 

[Tommy]

Messi vs Ronaldo is one thing, but anyone who claims anything other than Chelsea being robbed blind in 2009 is off their heads.

 

[roonster09]

Chelsea vs Barcelona 2009

•Decisions against Chelsea: 3-4 penalties turned down
•Decisions against Barcelona: 1 penalty turned down, 1 player wrongly sent off, 1 Chelsea player not sent off, 1v1 situation ruled offside

Clear robbery according to Cal

Inter vs Barcelona 2010

•Decisions against Inter: Player wrongly sent off
•Decisions against Barcelona: Two penalties turned down, wrongly disallowed goal, offside goal for Inter

Nothing to see here according to Cal because Busquets dived

Decision against inter : Milito was through one on one and was called wrongly called offside.

Not sure which penalties were denied or how many goals were disallowed, it all counts for nothing when player is sent off wrongly and had to play with only 10 players for around 60 mins.

 

[Prometheus]

I also liked the bit about what the game plan was for the 2nd leg. Barca came to attack, yet only had 1 shot on target.

Chelsea played on the break and had many shots on target, it's almost as if the aim of the game was possession rather than goals.

How dare you to try and score against me with all my nice possession.

I clicked on the person's channel to get some more entertainment. They have a dozens and dozens of videos on Messi, some on the the conspiracy against Messi in the Ballon d'Or masterminded by Florentino Perez. So Barca was a victim to a geopolitical power, and Messi to Forentino Perez. Someone help this poor club!

 

[mdvmia]

Decision against inter : Milito was through one on one and was called wrongly called offside.

Not sure which penalties were denied or how many goals were disallowed, it all counts for nothing when player is sent off wrongly and had to play with only 10 players for around 60 mins.

The two clear penalties were in the first leg

 

[Daysleeper]

When Moyes was manager, ManUtd wasn't the best team in the league just because they were defending champions.

City in 2015 was far closer to their title team than any Moyes team

 

[roonster09]

City in 2015 was far closer to their title team than any Moyes team

Still doesn't make them best team in the league as they weren't even in the title race. Your logic fails with simple example and now you are moving goal posts.

 

[Hemant]

Me being the one doing the provocation?

The Messi brigade are the ones who have come up with gems like: Ronaldo isn't even in the top 10, Luiz Ronaldo is the better Ronaldo, Ronaldo wasn't even the key player for Madrid... need I go on?

I have always respected Messi as one of the best ever players ever, just not the best.

You are right mate ....People disrespect Ronaldo a lot in here by saying he isn’t even top 10 of all time or he wasn’t key player for real winning 4 CL or Portugal winning euro 2016 .

Also talk about cherrypicking , why Maradona’s 86 wc is being talked about a lot to make him better than Messi and Ronaldo i don’t understand . if anything , Ronaldo’s CL 2017 run was nothing but best in history but hey we shouldn’t cherry pick huhh

 

[Rito]

• Google Pippo Inzhagi (or Simone) if you like goal poachers. We are talking GOATdom here. Keep your penalties and headers. If you cant stand the heat, get out, or call call mr Bierhoff, he was great at headers too. Bring it on.

I can't stand the stupidity .

 

[hkjack]

You are right mate ....People disrespect Ronaldo a lot in here by saying he isn’t even top 10 of all time or he wasn’t key player for real winning 4 CL or Portugal winning euro 2016 .

Also talk about cherrypicking , why Maradona’s 86 wc is being talked about a lot to make him better than Messi and Ronaldo i don’t understand . if anything , Ronaldo’s CL 2017 run was nothing but best in history but hey we shouldn’t cherry pick huhh

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/340/Archive/Portugal-Portugal

C Ronaldo was not even the top player in Portugal when he won the euro cup.

People rate maradona , pele as top player in history , not only because they won the World Cup, but also they had really impressive performance during the tournament.

Messi haven’t won any trophy for Argentina. But he was the Top rating player in Copa cup and World Cup 2014.
It is a joke to say that Ronaldo perform better than messi representing their own courtry.

 

[Daysleeper]

Still doesn't make them best team in the league as they weren't even in the title race. Your logic fails with simple example and now you are moving goal posts.

Weren’t in the title race? They were just 7 points behind at the time

They were a damn good team

 

[roonster09]

Weren’t in the title race? They were just 7 points behind at the time

They were a damn good team

No they weren't in title race. Chelsea started season brilliantly and so far ahead of every other team. They was no title race that season. It was over by December.

No they weren't damn good team. They were average team just like other PL teams.

 

[Daysleeper]

No they weren't in title race. Chelsea started season brilliantly and so far ahead of every other team. They was no title race that season. It was over by December.

No they weren't damn good team. They were average team just like other PL teams.

Wrong again

It was literally tied at top of the table at Christmas

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...epl-standings-and-predictions-for-matchday-18

If you want a season of mediocre PL teams look at the season Leicester won it

 

[roonster09]

Wrong again

It was literally tied at top of the table at Christmas

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...epl-standings-and-predictions-for-matchday-18

If you want a season of mediocre PL teams look at the season Leicester won it

Again? Arguing City were best team in 2014-15 is just stupidity.

And when they played at Barca they were 6 points behind with Chelsea having game in hand.

Chelsea were comfortable winners and City were closer to Arsenal than Chelsea. So yeah far from best team in England.