Yeah i remembered that one but the guy mentioned from the age of 23-24 and him being called the best ever at that age. the games I listed were the ones that the commentators would have been talking about.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Yeah i remembered that one but the guy mentioned from the age of 23-24 and him being called the best ever at that age. the games I listed were the ones that the commentators would have been talking about.
Its as if the phrases in the 1980s/ during the 1980s are a foreign language to you.
EDIT: oops I got this confused with the Guerin Sportivo World Player of the Year until 1986 my bad on this one
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2-3 of Messi's la ligas and 1 of his CLs were achieved with minimal contribution from him. Ronaldo was always the best player on his team and played the biggest role for every collective trophy he won.
City were not the best team in 2015. Chelsea were the best in the season.
What changed after that period?
Onze Mondial's readers select their ideal team of the season, Onze de Onze ("Onze's eleven"), and among those players they choose the top three, who receive the Onze d'Or ("Golden Onze"), Onze d'Argent ("Silver Onze"), and Onze de Bronze ("Bronze Onze") respectively. The awards were based on the previous calendar year until 2009, but moved to a seasonal format beginning with the 2010–11 season
That's all that wiki has which doesn't suggest a change in criteria and tbf that's a pretty bad way of picking best player. Might as well have a caf poll.
You lot are so transparent. Messi is doing so well in the league, scoring so many more than Ronaldo, yada yada.
The Champions League? He's been the sweeper in the last 3 years, it doesn't count!
Nothing of what you just said answers my post.
So, you use an argument (goals), then someone turns your argument against you (goals), then you go and say "well Ronnie was a winger when Tony Blair still was the president", then someone refutes your argument (if pure winger vs central player doesn't count, then striker vs midfielder shouldn't count either) and you try circle back to your first argument, goals?.
There's a key difference, when Real Madrid has had problems (Bayern leg, Liverpool final, 2 finals vs Atletico, another leg vs them just come to my mind) the whole team comes to the rescue even if Ronaldo is a passenger. Sometimes, even if Messi is the best player in his team, there's no Bale to score a bycicle kick from outside the area or a Ramos to score in the 94' minute to win a final.
It's not that our arguments are a spider web, some people are absolute on why Messi is the better player because, on a football pitch, he is a better player than Ronaldo, and, if you try to steer the conversation to stats, instead of talking about everything that can happen on a football pitch, even then Messi still has arguments to say "he's not even a better scorer than me".
You're the ones fixated on goals, and we fall into your trap until you throw it back at us, not the other way around.
You may want to re-read what I said about the Ballon D'or.
Ronaldo was voted higher than Messi in 7 of the last 12 years. The reason I picked 12 years is to exclude 2004-2006 where Ronaldo was actually also voted higher than Messi (who did't get a single vote) for a fairer comparison and so the Messi brigade doesn't cry about "but but but he's 2 years older
Without "cherry picking", Ronaldo was voted higher than Messi in 10 of the last 15 years in Ballon D'or.
Mesut Özil was voted higher than Luka Modric in 4 of the last 8 years
And Modric has beaten Özil only 3 times in that same period. So Mesut Özil has gotten the better, most consistent career of the two so far.
Nothing of what you just said answers my post.
So, you use an argument (goals), then someone turns your argument against you (goals), then you go and say "well Ronnie was a winger when Tony Blair still was the president", then someone refutes your argument (if pure winger vs central player doesn't count, then striker vs midfielder shouldn't count either) and you try circle back to your first argument, goals?.
There's a key difference, when Real Madrid has had problems (Bayern leg, Liverpool final, 2 finals vs Atletico, another leg vs them just come to my mind) the whole team comes to the rescue even if Ronaldo is a passenger. Sometimes, even if Messi is the best player in his team, there's no Bale to score a bycicle kick from outside the area or a Ramos to score in the 94' minute to win a final.
It's not that our arguments are a spider web, some people are absolute on why Messi is the better player because, on a football pitch, he is a better player than Ronaldo, and, if you try to steer the conversation to stats, instead of talking about everything that can happen on a football pitch, even then Messi still has arguments to say "he's not even a better scorer than me".
You're the ones fixated on goals, and we fall into your trap until you throw it back at us, not the other way around.
Mesut Özil was voted higher than Luka Modric in 4 of the last 8 years
And Modric has beaten Özil only 3 times in that same period. So Mesut Özil has gotten the better, most consistent career of the two so far.
You never really replied as to why messi wasn't motivated enough for the WC final.
Those are the games that came to mind plus his games against us and AC Milan.
Ah feck me I'm an idiot.
I was thinking of Guerin Sportivo's World Player of the Year from 1979-1986 from Italy which had votes from top journalists around the world . World Soccer used to do some too and I always get those confused with that Onze one. My mistake on that one
Well considering how many BS metrics Cal? has proposed in this thread...
Why is it a BS metric? It's an award that's decided by votes, same as Ballon d'Or. Difference is who does the voting. Why would readers of a football magazine be unworthy of voting for something? It's the popular vote, unlike the Ballon d'Or. If people can elect presidents and prime ministers, why not vote for the best footballers?
Are you better than the readers of Onze? Because if not, and their voting is BS, then you shouldn't discuss anything in here either, on account of not being a top journalist. Do you consider your opinions BS?
Thing is, it's a BS metric for you because Messi has more of those awards than Ronaldo. If it were the other way around, you'd be arguing for this as a confirmation that Ronaldo is the best because regular people voted on it too, not just the journos.
Hey if you want to argue over the onze dor be my guest, I can just sit here and laugh at it.
I appreciate the effort you put into that post.
I'm not sure I agree with 2015 and 2018 assessments though. You were like one goal in the very last game away from going unbeaten in the league in 2018, ffs. In 2013 Barca scored more goals in the league than even 2012 when Messi had the record year, and were favourites for CL, but regardless I can accept that as a draw. However, 2015 and 2018 it would be very harsh to say Madrid had the better teams, don't you think? You say losing James and Morata feels like they have finally turned off cheat codes, however those players never had a significant impact for the team.
2006 - Messi
2007 - Ronaldo
2008 - Ronaldo
2009 - Messi
2010 - Messi
2011 - Messi
2012 - Messi
2013 - Draw
2014 - Ronaldo
2015 - Ronaldo
2016 - Ronaldo
2017 - Ronaldo
2018 - Ronaldo
Unless I'm misinterpreting your post, you're saying Barca haven't had better team than Madrid since 2012.
Sorry for the late reply, I was in Valencia this week and came back just last night. Off topic, in Valencia they have an idea about why individual trophies are end dressed in white
In 2018 we were 1 goal away but we really weren't that good, remember that Messi saved us from losing 2-0 at the Pizjuan with half an hour of magic, he was the biggest reason for that run, and you may think it was a coincidence that we lost that record on the ¿only I think? game he missed, I doubt it was just a coincidence, yes, Mina was abyssmanl that game, but our leader wasn't on the pitch. Look at the results and his contributions, it was absurd, and like always, he's even more than just stats for our team.
2015 is weird and hard to measure for me, it's true that you could make a point about we having the best team, maybe I put too much importance in defense and midfield, when the MSN were hot, it really didn't matter if Pique or Oleguer was our CB, it's more of an essay about who's better overall as a team, not who had the better ceiling due to circumstances like having 3 freak players in their prime.
I don't agree on Morata, James and Isco (you didn't mention him, but I think he was important). It's one thing when you go full blast with the MSN for example, or Ney-Cavani-Mbappe and things go your way with fitness and injuries, but the role Morata had in their 2017 campaign helped Ronaldo big time for his UCL legs.
Morata scores 4 goal winning games until February, that's a big haul of points so Ronaldo could skip four consecutive away games in La Liga, James and Morata score 13 goals in 7 games to kill any hope we had of catching up Real Madrid (which would tire them more for a hellish UCL run). And Isco steps in when Bale gets injured, starts 4 games in a row (QF 2nd leg, Semis and final) while starting only 3 games in La Liga for that same period, sitting 3 whole games and playing 21' on another. When did a team had players of that caliber to spare and manage their fitness?.
Lastly, related to seasons like 2018, there's always this "Messi just plays small La Liga games to stat pad". When he doesn't play he still has to work miracles, like that game vs Sevilla past season, if he isn't there, the Levante fiasco happens, and so on...
Real Madrid are not shy to throw the league away if the UCL is within their reach, Barcelona never do the same, that's why Real have won more UCL than league titles in the last 23 years. And even in their worst moments, destroyed by Liverpool, laughed at by winter transfers and fielding a wrecked Raul, Guti, Diarra, Gago and Heinze with Juande Ramos as a coach, they're pests we have to deal with, nevermind the Capello league, they almost pulled this out.
Even 12 points behind us by December, they made us field our starting 11 for weeks to win the league that season, it could be an easier treble against many teams, but not when you have Real Madrid behind you. In those situations, guys like James, Morata or Isco ready to step in and win you games are a luxury like I've never seen before.
[QUOTE="Ishdalar, post: 23865319, member: 79192]Even 12 points behind us by December, they made us field our starting 11 for weeks to win the league that season, it could be an easier treble against many teams, but not when you have Real Madrid behind you. In those situations, guys like James, Morata or Isco ready to step in and win you games are a luxury like I've never seen before.[/QUOTE]
Heaven forbid you have to field your first 11 to win the league.
Heaven forbid you have to field your first 11 to win the league.
I don't remember a post asking that, checked the alerts and can't seen to watch it.
Anyway, if the question is just that.
Why wasn't he motivated, who was better than him for the Argentina squad?. Should he turn into N'golo Kante to show motivation?. When Zidane wanted to play better he didn't increase the distance covered and his pace, he just... tried to play better?.
Sometimes you don't need to do it, it was in part what dug Lucho's grave, with a 6 point advantage over Atkatuci and 7 on Real he fielded his best 11 in El Clasico 4 days before the leg vs Atletico.
We lost at home vs Real, giving them wings, we played bad vs Atletico, lost with our subs vs Real at Anoeta (there's a difference between fielding Morata, Isco and James, vs Munir, Arda and Rafinha), lost again with the starters vs Atletico (out of the UCL), and again vs Valencia.
It took the team 3 weeks to get past the crisis because we didn't have quality players to field at home vs Real Madrid, we lost the UCL and almost the league
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I don't remember a post asking that, checked the alerts and can't seen to watch it.
Anyway, if the question is just that.
Why wasn't he motivated, who was better than him for the Argentina squad?. Should he turn into N'golo Kante to show motivation?. When Zidane wanted to play better he didn't increase the distance covered and his pace, he just... tried to play better?.
Well you said that a motivated messi cant be stopped and that's why he is the goat so either he wasnt motivated or that statement is false.
I may have invented the term "hyperbole" in this thread then.
Both have been bailed out by team-mates, yet it's often the Messi brigade who go on and on about Ronaldo's failure to score in 3 games last season as if Messi never needed any team-mates.
City were defending champs at the time
Maybe, just maybe that has to do with you constantly bragging about that Messi haan't shown up in important games since years. This is of course bullshit but since you don't stop bringing that up you can't blame people for pointing out your double standards.
Not that that would bother you. You aren't interested in arguments. For you it's just vemgeance for everyone that dares to (in your eyes) downplay' your favourite player. Which is why every single post of yours is just constant provocation of the "Messi brigade".
Messi wouldn't have had the space to dribble like that if Pepe hadn't been wrongly sent off. Surely you can see that it was exactly what Pepe was there to stop before his red card.
Pepe's sending off was the cause, Messi's great goal was an effect of the sending off.
Let's see:
2009 - Ronaldo led United to the final, scoring a wonder goal against Porto and had one of the best CL performances ever at Arsenal.
Messi destroyed Bayern in the QF but needed Ovebro to intervene in the SF against Chelsea.
2010 - Ronaldo's worst CL ever, went out in R16. Messi destroys Arsenal in the QF yet even Busquets' antics couldn't save them against Jose' Inter Airbus
2011 - The aforementioned El Clasico SF that was decided when Pepe was red carded, granted Messi scored an impressive goal
2012 - Ronaldo loses to Bayern whilst Messi loses to Chelsea. Messi missed a penalty during the 2nd half playing against 10men Chelsea that cost them the tie.
So the 4 or so years (I assume you're talking about those, certainly not 2008), on the fact of it, Messi was much more impressive with 2 CLs to Ronaldo's 0.
But has he really "easily" outperformed Ronaldo? Without Ovebro (Iniesta) or Alves, there's nothing to write home about.
We won't come to any agreement because Messi (and Barca fans) have an holier than thou attitude as if they're god's gift to football and there's only one way to play football.
The key issue is that Messi did have team-mates come to the rescue many times. The scandal of Stamford Bridge being a prime example.Nothing of what you just said answers my post.
So, you use an argument (goals), then someone turns your argument against you (goals), then you go and say "well Ronnie was a winger when Tony Blair still was the president", then someone refutes your argument (if pure winger vs central player doesn't count, then striker vs midfielder shouldn't count either) and you try circle back to your first argument, goals?.
There's a key difference, when Real Madrid has had problems (Bayern leg, Liverpool final, 2 finals vs Atletico, another leg vs them just come to my mind) the whole team comes to the rescue even if Ronaldo is a passenger. Sometimes, even if Messi is the best player in his team, there's no Bale to score a bycicle kick from outside the area or a Ramos to score in the 94' minute to win a final.
It's not that our arguments are a spider web, some people are absolute on why Messi is the better player because, on a football pitch, he is a better player than Ronaldo, and, if you try to steer the conversation to stats, instead of talking about everything that can happen on a football pitch, even then Messi still has arguments to say "he's not even a better scorer than me".
You're the ones fixated on goals, and we fall into your trap until you throw it back at us, not the other way around.
Mesut Özil was voted higher than Luka Modric in 4 of the last 8 years
And Modric has beaten Özil only 3 times in that same period. So Mesut Özil has gotten the better, most consistent career of the two so far.
We all there are some stupid votes in the Ballon D'or voting with some players getting a few random votes, partly why I have mostly used 7/12 instead of 10/15. However, those near the top are generally respectable choices in most year (Owen and Modric being key exceptions).
Me being the one doing the provocation? The Messi brigade are the ones who have come up with gems like: Ronaldo isn't even in the top 10, Luiz Ronaldo is the better Ronaldo, Ronaldo wasn't even the key player for Madrid... need I go on?
I have always respected Messi as one of the best ever players ever, just not the best.
I haven't. I simply wait for you to say anything insightful that is related to the actual sport. If you never say something that doesn't come across as ultra superficial you can't blame people for estimating they know more about football than you. It has nothing to do with Barca style by the way, the same plays I desbribed earlier are also required in counter attacking teams. After all you can't score goals without outplaying midfield and defense of the opponent and nobody is better at that than Messi. And few players of his standing contributed as little to that as Cristiano during his last 4-5 Real Madrid years. I don't say he is bad at it, he simply didn't do it as much as he used to.
The Messi brigade are the ones who have come up with gems like: Ronaldo isn't even in the top 10, Luiz Ronaldo is the better Ronaldo, Ronaldo wasn't even the key player for Madrid... need I go on?
I have always respected Messi as one of the best ever players ever, just not the best.
You are the one who constantly speaks of the 'Messi brigade'. Moreover, you confuse opinions with provocation. Yes, I think peak R9 is better than peak Cristiano and at least very close to peak Messi. The fact that you think this is provocation shows that you don't understand what Ronaldo was about, just like you don't understand what Messi is about. You only see the goals and titles. Maybe that's why you get the feeling people are talking down on you. I mean, come on, you completely dismissed the relevance of dribblings and great passing in the modern game. You never really came across as someone who's got an eye for the details of the sport.
By the way, have you ever played football yourself?
You know perfectly well that's not true, you can score goals plenty of other ways, anyway, I have no intention to get into a playground insults with you.
How is Messi brigade an provocation? I can accept that Messi fanboi is kind of provocative and have stopped using it.
What would you prefer? Messi gang? Messi fan club? Cult of Messi? Please suggest.
You know perfectly well that we're discussing the greatest player here, by any measure Luiz Ronaldo is nowhere near the top of the list.
Please quote where I dismissed dribblings and passing? I just don't agree that they alone mean anything, or have you forgotten how United played under LVG with all that passing, did it get anywhere?
How should you be able to score a goal without outplaying midfield and defense? That's logically not possible, you always have to get past them, whichever way you choose.
And yes, it's provocative. I don't call you a member of the Ronaldo cult. If you don't want to provoke use supporters, fans or whatever.
And you are again confusing provocation and opinion. Taking peak R9 over peak Cristiano is by no means a ridiculous statement.
And no, I won't search through hundreds of pages to prove something you and I know you claimed. You even said that shooting and crossing are more important. These are the kind of claims that convinced me you simply don't know what you are talking about.
Brigade - An organization with a military or quasi-military structure
How is that provocative? Cult on the other hand is, I'd have no problem if you wanted to use the term Ronaldo brigade.
You have to get past them, but you don't have to outplay them, that's the point.
It's interesting you've only picked the Luiz Ronaldo one to debate, you agree that Ronaldo isn't even in the top 10 and Ronaldo wasn't Real's key player ARE provocation?
Shooting is of course much more important than dribbling.
Brigade - An organization with a military or quasi-military structure
How is that provocative? Cult on the other hand is, I'd have no problem if you wanted to use the term Ronaldo brigade.
You have to get past them, but you don't have to outplay them, that's the point.
It's interesting you've only picked the Luiz Ronaldo one to debate, you agree that Ronaldo isn't even in the top 10 and Ronaldo wasn't Real's key player ARE provocation?
Shooting is of course much more important than dribbling.
No, shooting is not more important than dribbling, but whatever.
Get past them and outplay is the same thing. We can argue about what's the best way to do it but 99% of a game consist of one team in possession trying to get past the other's defense lines. You completely underestimate the importance of that.
No, I don't agree that this is generally provocative. But yes, I agree that you've definitely been purposely provoked by some in here. Yet you also provoke people who never did the same to you, generalizing like you please and pretending we are all part of some strange army whose sole purpose is to belittle your favourite player - and you still perceive much as provocation which by no means was ever intended as such.
2009 - You're missing a game in your text... final? Messi scored a goal, Ronaldo was bossed by a CB that hadn't played as a RB in years
2010- If you're going to talk about the scandal of Stamford Bridge, you shouldn't pass on your toes over the two goals scored in offside at Milan and Bojan's disallowed goal for Toure NOT handing the ball... yet of course, you only mention Busquets.
2011 -He didn't score "an impressive goal", he scored two goals, he destroyed Ronaldo's Real Madrid (if I remember well Ronaldo didn't score, right?), anyway, if the missile vs Porto is a "wonder goal" then Messi vs Real Madrid is a goal for the ages.
2012 - Yeah, Messi missed the penalty that could put Barcelona in the final... you're forgetting to tell us that Ronaldo missed a pen vs Bayern too
Jesus, how much can a single persion revisit history to try and get away with everything?.
We're holier than what? There's no one being more holier than anything here than some specific individuals trying to sell a distorted narrative.
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Messi won 3 big tournaments in his entire career.
2009 CL, 2011 CL, 2015 CL
4 best players in the world in 2009 - Messi (Barcelona), Ronaldo (Madrid), Xavi (Barcelona), Iniesta (Barcelona)
4 best players in the world in 2011 - Messi (Barcelona), Ronaldo (Madrid), Xavi (Barcelona), Iniesta (Barcelona)
4 best players in the world in 2015 - Messi (Barcelona), Ronaldo (Madrid), Neymar (Barcelona), Suarez (Barcelona)
Would be nice if he could win a damn tournament without having the best team in the world by a mile with 2 of the top 4 best players in the world next to him. It's like comparing Kevin Durant winning with the Warriors with Dirk Nowitski winning with Dallas as if they're the same damn thing.
Then of course Barcelona fans think their team having the highest wage bill in the sport by a mile isn't enough. Of course they believe buying De Jong, De Ligt and Jovic in a summer is not enough... of course they believe having Luis Suarez isn't enough... even they know to win the Champions League with Messi at the center of it they need to go for all of Mbappe, Griezmann, Verratti and Van Dijk to then be able to cheer in glory of the almighty one as he 'carries' them to the trophy with great performances in a team that's the best in the world even if he didn't bother leaving the house. That's having great impact right there. 2 Champions League titles at a team whose core won 2 Euros and 1 World Cup in 4 years. Is that what greatness is supposed to be?
Then we're meant to completely ignore the circumstances around them, buy the direct comparisons and get calls of hypocrisy over 'distorting narratives'. Right...
Distorting narratives was the pure stupidity being posted here for years about Real Madrid and the importance of that midfield. That was the definition of a distorting narrative. The fact that saying Marcelo or Modric were Real Madrid's most important players wasn't uncommon or frowed upon in this thread says it all really. There are people commenting here who don't have a bit of shame, it's incredible the lack of self-awareness necessary to keep commenting after what's happened in the past 2 years.
2009 CL, 2011 CL, 2015 CL
4 best players in the world in 2009 - Messi (Barcelona), Ronaldo (Madrid), Xavi (Barcelona), Iniesta (Barcelona)
4 best players in the world in 2011 - Messi (Barcelona), Ronaldo (Madrid), Xavi (Barcelona), Iniesta (Barcelona)
4 best players in the world in 2015 - Messi (Barcelona), Ronaldo (Madrid), Neymar (Barcelona), Suarez (Barcelona)
Would be nice if he could win a damn tournament without having the best team in the world by a mile with 2 of the top 4 best players in the world next to him. It's like comparing Kevin Durant winning with the Warriors with Dirk Nowitski winning with Dallas as if they're the same damn thing.
Then of course Barcelona fans think their team having the highest wage bill in the sport by a mile isn't enough. Of course they believe buying De Jong, De Ligt and Jovic in a summer is not enough... of course they believe having Luis Suarez isn't enough... even they know to win the Champions League with Messi at the center of it they need to go for all of Mbappe, Griezmann, Verratti and Van Dijk to then be able to cheer in glory of the almighty one as he 'carries' them to the trophy with great performances in a team that's the best in the world even if he didn't bother leaving the house. That's having great impact right there. 2 Champions League titles at a team whose core won 2 Euros and 1 World Cup in 4 years. Is that what greatness is supposed to be?
Then we're meant to completely ignore the circumstances around them, buy the direct comparisons and get calls of hypocrisy over 'distorting narratives'. Right...
Distorting narratives was the pure stupidity being posted here for years about Real Madrid and the importance of that midfield. That was the definition of a distorting narrative. The fact that saying Marcelo or Modric were Real Madrid's most important players wasn't uncommon or frowed upon in this thread says it all really. There are people commenting here who don't have a bit of shame, it's incredible the lack of self-awareness necessary to keep commenting after what's happened in the past 2 years.
Van der Sar, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Rooney, Tevez, Casillas, Ramos, Pepe, Varane, Marcelo, Xabi Alonso, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Di Maria, Benzema, Bale... all of them were a bunch of "tuercebotas".
And that's not even starting to criticize your dumb argument of De Jong, De Ligt and Jovic. Frenkie costs 70M in 2019, Real Madrid spent 70M on James just to warm the bench, two of them haven't signed, Bale was a 100M price tag, with Benzema, even if it didn't work, came Kaka for 70M.
Two of the players in that midfield (Modric and Kroos) have 1 WC title and 1 WC final with the MVP in the last 2 WC, how is that inferior to Xavi and Iniesta?. That's on their own, imagine if (god almighty) Kroos and Modric had the same luck as Iniesta and Xavi of playing for Germany, and suddenly, Lewandowki is German too (that would put Muller/Lewa at the level of Villa/Torres), and they can field two generational talents like Xabi Alonso (who played with who?) and Busquets there, plus a bench with Silva, Mata and Fabregas.
Minnows vs legends, the only shame here is that you probably believe your own posts.
I'm not going to debate the importance of each attribute with you, suffice to say no doubt you think heading to the least important thing to do on a football pitch.
How is "Ronaldo wasn't even Real Madrid's key player" anything but just a fishing expedition looking to provoke people into retaliating? If you think that can even come remotely close to being a valid opinion, there's no need to talk about this any further.
I can make a better case for Messi not being Barca's key player back in 08-10 based on the achievements of his team mates with Spain, but I won't bother because I'm not looking to provoke "Team Messi" (better?)
Did I say Ronaldo played with crap players only? And that Messi only played with great ones Mr. 'Distorting narratives'?
Learn to read.
Ronaldo played with plenty of great players and Messi played with plenty of crap ones. Fact of the matter is overall one had nowhere near the help the other had throughout his career. Didn't need it in order to be more successful either.
Good shit asking me how Modric and Kroos are inferior to Xavi and Iniesta... that's some good shit right there.
Xavi and Iniesta were winning 2 Euros and 1 World Cup without Messi. Without Ronaldo, Kroos and Modric got humiliated in the round of 16 of the Champions League after 8 straight years of Madrid getting to the semifinals. It's a knockout competition though so you can always pin it on luck as usual while blatanty ignoring the impact they had on their teams.
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I was pointing out that Messi needed his team-mates in a major way, which doesn't fit into Team Messi's agenda that Ronaldo only won multiple CLs due to Ramos and Bale.
2009 - It must be nice to feel so good about yourselves after the biggest scandal ever in a CL game. Chelsea could have anywhere between 3 to 6 penalties.
2010 - Uefalona complaining about refereeing?
You may as well complain about the volcano eruption.2011 - Another big game decided by the referee before Messi did anything. Ronaldo would probably have scored against 10 men, but we'd never know.
2012 - Messi missed a penalty during the game that would definitely have won it. Ronaldo missed a penalty during the shootout that could have prolonged it. Spot the difference. Also, are you seriously equating 2011 Chelsea with 2011 Bayern?
You win, Messi sucks, Ronaldo goat. Barcelona should sell Messi right know that they can get something in return, maybe trade him for Rojo. God bless this kid.
Can't argue what I said so you pretend I said something else. Only need one more for the hattrick.
yeahh, you're right, again.
I was pointing out that Messi needed his team-mates in a major way, which doesn't fit into Team Messi's agenda that Ronaldo only won multiple CLs due to Ramos and Bale.
2009 - It must be nice to feel so good about yourselves after the biggest scandal ever in a CL game. Chelsea could have anywhere between 3 to 6 penalties.
2010 - Uefalona complaining about refereeing?
2011 - Another big game decided by the referee before Messi did anything. Ronaldo would probably have scored against 10 men, but we'd never know.
2012 - Messi missed a penalty during the game that would definitely have won it. Ronaldo missed a penalty during the shootout that could have prolonged it. Spot the difference. Also, are you seriously equating 2011 Chelsea with 2011 Bayern?
It's easy to make it seem like a team was helped by the ref when you only look at decisions that went in their favor. Pierluigi Collina even said Pepe's sending off was a textbook red card tackle but I guess that won't stop you from repeating to say it was incorrect.
Apart from 2017, all of Ronaldo's Champions League wins also relied a lot more on luck, referees, and teammates than any of Messi's did.
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