And how many goals did Iniesta and Xavi have? Judging a midfield by goals scored is a terrible way to look at it
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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And how many goals did Iniesta and Xavi have? Judging a midfield by goals scored is a terrible way to look at it
Quickly checks who started this utter shitshow.......
I had a duty as a mod at the time to try and limit the feckwittery to a specific, easily avoided, single location. The opening post is hopefully quite clear regarding my intentions!
Sadly, I failed in my efforts, feckwits abound.
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I often read on here how one or two CMs have supposedly "failed to dominate the midfield". A popular criticism of Pogba, for example. But the ability to dominate never hinges on the midfield alone, it's how the whole team is set up and instructed. Real Madrid as a team were more about end to end stuff plus "Spanish" elements, not much about dominance.
Of course Xavi/Iniesta(/Busquets) were a class above. But outside of that it doesn't get much better than Modric/Kroos when it comes to dominating possession. I think they would have had more effect in a different setup (especially Kroos), but it worked well enough as it was.
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Ronaldo is just a great great goalscorer,one of the best ever, but even at what he does best he is inferior to Messi who scores more and far better difficult goals. Very simple to understand even for Ronaldo's fans. Messi creates his own goals, Ronaldo needs the team.
Yeah, only 10 goals. Clearly overrated. While we are at it, de Gea and co. are overrated, too. The likes of Hans-Jörg Butt and Chilavert scored far more goals than them. Still the biggest scandal in football history that the former was benched for a fraud like Neuer in 2011.
If that's the case then how do you explain Messi for Argentina? And why do people need to bring up the issue about the quality of his teammates. Surely if Messi is this almighty player who can create all of his own goals and dribble through entire opposition defences without the help of others then he should have no problem playing with supposedly sub-par teammates and should never have lost 4-5 Copas now...yet somehow he has never done anything close to what Maradona did in '86 for them.
Messi creates his own goals but whenever he fails it's due to the team. I mean do you guys even read what you post.
He is the top goalscorer for his NT, more than Maradona, Batistuta, Kempes, etc. Argentina doesn't win nothing since 93' Copa América so what Messi did was put Argentina in the spotlight for a couple of years by taking his team to four finals. He is not fecking Jesús.
Yes, do you?
Maybe stop comparing a player that primarily plays a fair 20-30 meters deeper than the other solely based on goal output.
Messi gives you goals in abundance no other player on this planet scores and additionally makes every other attacker score even more. Ronaldo scores goals strikers usually score and he occupies the area those strikers usually demand for themselves. Hence he always needs his fellow attacking partner to leave room for him and thus they will score less. Ask Benzema about that.
Not really, life is too short to read one owns posts.
Don't even discuss this irrelevant stuff with tgem. Stick with footballing arguments. This discussion is far too focused on things that have nothing to do with actual football or individual quality because certain someones prefer talking about superficial and/or not sports related nonsense that makes Ronaldo look better.
We are discussing who's the better footballer not whose career would make the better Hollywood plot.
The messi fans on this forum can shift posts in a single comment 3-4 times and they're not even ashamed; " messi creates and scores his own goals, he's this and that, dribbles, blah blah blah...", but he didn't create and score the goals by himself since his teammates weren't up to it; when he wins with Barca, his fans forget that they're ten other player that assisted and created chances for messi, and go on to say he did it by himself; then when he loses against a bang average Venezuelan team on home soil, they start blaming his teammates and leave away the supposed magician that can 'create and score something out of nothing'.
Very pathetic and insufferable set of fans, just one of the reasons I can never be convinced that Messi is a better all round player than Ronaldo.
The only reason why there's a debate is because of Ronaldo's very divisive antics (which doesn't rub me the wrong way though), and it all started in 2006 against England...or else, people will just respect messi for his dribbles and that's it.
Very pathetic and insufferable set of fans, just one of the reasons I can never be convinced that Messi is a better all round player than Ronaldo.
The only reason why there's a debate is because of Ronaldo's very divisive antics (which doesn't rub me the wrong way though), and it all started in 2006 against England...or else, people will just respect messi for his dribbles and that's it.
Ronaldo was injured or partly injured, as far as I know, in the 2014 and 2016 finals, which he played.
The only reason there is a debate is because their trophy cabinets and goal records are close. If you are willing to look further than that then it is relatively obvious who is the better player.
Of course, Ronaldo is the better one once you look outside your rose-tinted glasses
Unlike you who are really objective
Funny, and you are objective, right?
And what exactly makes him better at football? No things like "clutch", team trophies, multiple countries, awards and all the other mental or off the pitch stuff. What makes you think he is better at the actual sport? Which abilities convince you that he's the better football player?
Because I really don't see anything except for headersband extreme long range shooting (30+ meters) where he beats Messi. And the latter is rather irrelevant since it makes up maybe 0.5% of goals.
I like this new way of argument which ignores literally almost everything about football.What is the sport of football about?
There are freestyle players that do more with ball than pogba. Guess they are better.
Hes better than Messi at winning.
Nah, mate, the game was played at the Wanda, not the Bernabéu...
ooof tjatst a good oneExcept Messi is younger and has won more trophies. “Football is about winning”, Messi has won more ergo Messi is better.
Ronaldo fans alert, he played yesterday
Ronaldo played against Ucrania and did nothing, he played 2 points, I guess it's just because it was a meaningless match and he is only for big stages.
Nice dodge. How can talking about what footballing abilities someone has be ignoring football? I mean Ronaldo fans were making these arguments previously e.g. he's better at heading, shooting, goal scoring instinct and replaced all this with fantasy heroic mentality stuff. The eye test is enough.
I've seen this type of response on this thread twice now. How is comparing a freestyler to Messi an honest response? Remember that time he did a handstand and passed it to Rakitic? ridiculous!
Messi has won more. Even recently with Ronaldos success in the champions league, you can't ignore how badly he's done in the league, which means he's worse than Messi most of the time.
Its Cristiano fans logic. Apparently, deciding who was better was all about stats. Until you point out to them that Lampard had better stats than Zidane for example. Ergo Diego wouldn't be one of the best ever if it were about stats. Argument fail. Now the new argument is "winning". I guess Ryan Giggs is better than the likes of Best and Cruyff because he"won" more right? You do realise Cristiano fans, that messi will most likely end up with more trophies, once hes finished than anyone in football history (he has significantly more trophies than Cristiano at the mo, only 5 behind Dani Alves)? Where is the football argument that Cristiano is a better "player"? Penalties, headers, athleticism, off the ball movement? Is that all you have? Do you think Cruyff, Di Stefano and Diego would swap their dribbling and playmaking for headers and off the ball movement?
Sorry thought we were back to onzo dors
Ronaldo didn’t play a single minute in the Copa del Rey in 2017-18... but they did better this year because he wasn’t there. What incredible logic that is.
They did better in the CL group stages ahhahahahahahah you can’t be serious. They drew Roma, CSKA and Viktoria Plzen. Not Dortmund and Spurs.
They fecking got knocked out in the round of 16 by Ajax after 8 straight years of getting to the semifinals. Is that comment actually serious?
The stupidity and denial just gets bigger and bigger here, it’s incredible.
Also, Vinicius has been Madrid’s best forward this season... is he not a new player? They’d have easily done a lot worse without him.
I’m sure Messi would rather win 2 Copa del Reys than 1 World Cup. 2>1, duh.
Ronaldo didn’t play a single minute in the Copa del Rey in 2017-18... but they did better this year because he wasn’t there. What incredible logic that is.
They did better in the CL group stages ahhahahahahahah you can’t be serious. They drew Roma, CSKA and Viktoria Plzen. Not Dortmund and Spurs.
They fecking got knocked out in the round of 16 by Ajax after 8 straight years of getting to the semifinals. Is that comment actually serious?
The stupidity and denial just gets bigger and bigger here, it’s incredible.
Also, Vinicius has been Madrid’s best forward this season... is he not a new player? They’d have easily done a lot worse without him.
You forgot out how the side was in its prime 14-18 but suddenly lost it one year later.
This was too funny!
The Onze d'Or is probably my favourite argument from this thread!
Best part is that its literally based on the voting off french fans of that magazine, its like a redcafe poll and he is using it to prove that messi is better after he got called out on his Balon D'or argument
‘Messi creates his own goals and improves everyone around him while Ronaldo needs the team playing for him to score a lot’
‘Messi can create goals out of nothing’
Why did Messi not win with Argentina then?
‘It’s Higuain’s fault’
‘The squad is shit’
‘Argentinian players become worse when playing for Argentina’
‘Messi can create goals out of nothing’
Why did Messi not win with Argentina then?
‘It’s Higuain’s fault’
‘The squad is shit’
‘Argentinian players become worse when playing for Argentina’
He was our best player... and he did play well.
Were you watching Portugal-Ukraine instead of the Venezuela-Argentina game that was happening at the same time? Good choice.
Tune in for Portugal-Serbia on Monday
Messi’s ability to play any position in midfield and attack, distinguishes him as a superior player. I believe Messi can dictate play and hurt teams anywhere on the pitch, whereas Ronaldo can only be effective upfront. If the goals and assist are the barometer, then Messi is still the better player because his assists can be used to offset the few goals ronaldo is ahead. And when you factor in their ages then Messi is clearly the supreme player because he matches everything ronaldo has achieved currently while being younger
So you can't. Case closed.
Hahah the Ronaldo grupie band unleashed!
First part is true there's hardly anything Ronaldo can do that doesn't require a decent pass or cross, Messi does create goals out of nothing.
All those things that you would call 'excuses' are actually legitimate arguments. The Argentina team is dysfunctional, no player could save them.
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