Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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RedRonaldo said:
Wenger has the most win in Onze award in coach category, more than Fergie and Guardiola :lol: Ok I am out of here. It has loss all credibility for me.
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Apparently reading and comprehending the phrase in the 1980s was too much for you. So good luck wherever you go ;)

Your posting has lost* all credibility for me.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Apparently reading and comprehending the phrase in the 1980s was too much for you. So good luck wherever you go ;)

Your posting has lost* all credibility for me.
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:lol: It doesn't works that way, you can't cherry pick a few years and ignore the rest. No awards in this world works that way, its either credible or not.

You logic has lost all credibility for me.
 
Poorly formatted post
RedRonaldo said:
Wenger has the most win in Onze award in coach category, more than Fergie and Guardiola :lol: Ok I am out of here. It has loss all credibility for me.
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Are you Ronaldo fans dense or something? Follow carefully and you might understand. Cristiano fan, " well Ronaldo must be better because he's had the most individual awards in the last 7 years". Messi fan" well you cant exactly go by individual awards, because if you did, you would have to look at Diego and Platinis awards in the mid to late 80s. The most prestigious individual award at the TIME that the two could win was the Onze DAward, and Platini won it more times than Diego. Are you saying that Platini was better than Diego at the time?". Cristiano fan" of course not. But what the hell is an Onze award? Its meaningless, but Wenger, but this, but that".
Ladies and gentlemen, i present the reading comprehension and logic of Cristiano fans.
Heres another classic. Cristiano fan" Messi fans dont care about facts and figures" Messi fan" but in order to determine whos better, you need more than facts and figures, otherwise Lampard is better than Scholes and Zidane and Gerd Muller is top 5 of all time, for example". Cristiano fan, " but Lampard isnt better than Zidane". Messi fan, "but what about your argument of stats and figures? Anyway would you put Diego top 5 of all time". Cristiano fan, " yeah probably" Messi fan" but there are at least 10 players with better stats than him, youre not exactly being consistent with this whole stats argument are you?" Cristiano fan" but but but but, but look over there.
Come on ?cal, Peyroteo, Redronny, you and your cohorts need to do better.
 
Tostao_80 said:
Are you Ronaldo fans dense or something? Follow carefully and you might understand. Cristiano fan, " well Ronaldo must be better because he's had the most individual awards in the last 7 years". Messi fan" well you cant exactly go by individual awards, because if you did, you would have to look at Diego and Platinis awards in the mid to late 80s. The most prestigious individual award at the TIME that the two could win was the Onze DAward, and Platini won it more times than Diego. Are you saying that Platini was better than Diego at the time?". Cristiano fan" of course not. But what the hell is an Onze award? Its meaningless, but Wenger, but this, but that".
Ladies and gentlemen, i present the reading comprehension and logic of Cristiano fans.
Heres another classic. Cristiano fan" Messi fans dont care about facts and figures" Messi fan" but in order to determine whos better, you need more than facts and figures, otherwise Lampard is better than Scholes and Zidane and Gerd Muller is top 5 of all time, for example". Cristiano fan, " but Lampard isnt better than Zidane". Messi fan, "but what about your argument of stats and figures? Anyway would you put Diego top 5 of all time". Cristiano fan, " yeah probably" Messi fan" but there are at least 10 players with better stats than him, youre not exactly being consistent with this whole stats argument are you?" Cristiano fan" but but but but, but look over there.
Come on ?cal, Peyroteo, Redronny, you and your cohorts need to do better.
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Talking about dense, didnt you start talking about balon dor and when it was pointed out how wrong you were you switched to fecking onze dor? Let's not try and airbrush that.
 
MJJ said:
Talking about dense, didnt you start talking about balon dor and when it was pointed out how wrong you were you switched to fecking onze dor? Let's not try and airbrush that.
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Address the points made. Are you another stats man, Muller over Diego and Lampard over Zidane? Defend that. Who are the best 5 players in history for you? Should be an interesting list.
 
Tostao_80 said:
Address the points made. Are you another stats man, Muller over Diego and Lampard over Zidane? Defend that. Who are the best 5 players in history for you? Should be an interesting list.
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You first address the point of switching from Balon D'or to "Orange D'or" and then having the audacity of calling others dense. Truly a special kind.
 
Tostao_80 said:
Are you Ronaldo fans dense or something? Follow carefully and you might understand. Cristiano fan, " well Ronaldo must be better because he's had the most individual awards in the last 7 years". Messi fan" well you cant exactly go by individual awards, because if you did, you would have to look at Diego and Platinis awards in the mid to late 80s. The most prestigious individual award at the TIME that the two could win was the Onze DAward, and Platini won it more times than Diego. Are you saying that Platini was better than Diego at the time?". Cristiano fan" of course not. But what the hell is an Onze award? Its meaningless, but Wenger, but this, but that".
Ladies and gentlemen, i present the reading comprehension and logic of Cristiano fans.
Heres another classic. Cristiano fan" Messi fans dont care about facts and figures" Messi fan" but in order to determine whos better, you need more than facts and figures, otherwise Lampard is better than Scholes and Zidane and Gerd Muller is top 5 of all time, for example". Cristiano fan, " but Lampard isnt better than Zidane". Messi fan, "but what about your argument of stats and figures? Anyway would you put Diego top 5 of all time". Cristiano fan, " yeah probably" Messi fan" but there are at least 10 players with better stats than him, youre not exactly being consistent with this whole stats argument are you?" Cristiano fan" but but but but, but look over there.
Come on ?cal, Peyroteo, Redronny, you and your cohorts need to do better.
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Actually so accurate though :lol: every claim that Ronaldo is better contradicts with arguments beforehand.
 
Rito said:
You first address the point of switching from Balon D'or to "Orange D'or" and then having the audacity of calling others dense. Truly a special kind.
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Oh, lordy. Is that the best you have? Shouldn't you be in your basement researching more "stats"? Ill help you out. 2 names: Josef Biscan and Arthur Friedenreich (scorers of over 2000 goals combined, exciting i know, dont cream your pants). More members of your mythical top 5 of all time (alongside Cristiano, Muller and Inzhagi)
 
Donk87 said:
You might want to mention that to @Cal?
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You may want to re-read what I said about the Ballon D'or.

Ronaldo was voted higher than Messi in 7 of the last 12 years. The reason I picked 12 years is to exclude 2004-2006 where Ronaldo was actually also voted higher than Messi (who did't get a single vote) for a fairer comparison and so the Messi brigade doesn't cry about "but but but he's 2 years older :( ).

Without "cherry picking", Ronaldo was voted higher than Messi in 10 of the last 15 years in Ballon D'or. :smirk:
 
Green_Red said:
has there ever been another time when two players were so good for so long. I mean competing with one another vying for the best in the world tag? Like we all know Pele and Maradona but they're two different eras.

I can't pick anymore, both of these guys are just exceptional talents and I'm glad I'm getting to witness it. I'd imagine it's a bit like old timers that tell you about when they got to see George Best in the flesh. In 30 / 40 years people will still be talking about these two, without question.
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To be honest the discussion is quite tiresome, its just going in circles. . I think with like Pele and Maradonna, their legacy's are going to be similiar and are going to be rated about the same. I would like to see a 1 vs 1 footie match with a small net with messi and Ronaldo. Seems to be the only way end this discussion.
 
I thought 90 millions on a 34 year old player was insane but it looks like not a bad business by Juventus in the end
 
Ok no more cherry picking

The football world voted Ronaldo the better player in 10 out of the last 15 years!! :D
 
This thread should be renamed to "How to judge a player by solely reading his wikipedia article"
Don't you think it is suspicious that one side never wants to talk about actual football? Because if we cut away all the circus that's surrounding it (Ballon D'Or, stat orgies, doing it in multiple leagues, clutch, team trophy comparisons, ..) and just compare what two individuals show when they are on a football pitch, the outcome is quite clear. Which is why certain users prefer talking about all this other stuff instead of going into detail.

The arguments many Ronaldo supporters in here make are also of the very superficial and easy to grasp sort. Claims that will convince people who have no clue about football. Oversimplify things and refuse to dive deeper so that one's own view isn't challenged.
 
Zehner said:
This thread should be renamed to "How to judge a player by solely reading his wikipedia article"
Don't you think it is suspicious that one side never wants to talk about actual football? Because if we cut away all the circus that's surrounding it (Ballon D'Or, stat orgies, doing it in multiple leagues, clutch, team trophy comparisons, ..) and just compare what two individuals show when they are on a football pitch, the outcome is quite clear. Which is why certain users prefer talking about all this other stuff instead of going into detail.

The arguments many Ronaldo supporters in here make are also of the very superficial and easy to grasp sort. Claims that will convince people who have no clue about football. Oversimplify things and refuse to dive deeper so that one's own view isn't challenged.
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While I agree with some of the points, most of the points are just nonsense. Messi fans fails to recognize off the ball, movement as part of football. They consider only on ball skill as something that matters. These points are made by Ronaldo fans so many times, somehow it's ignored and usual thing starts.
 
Zehner said:
This thread should be renamed to "How to judge a player by solely reading his wikipedia article"
Don't you think it is suspicious that one side never wants to talk about actual football? Because if we cut away all the circus that's surrounding it (Ballon D'Or, stat orgies, doing it in multiple leagues, clutch, team trophy comparisons, ..) and just compare what two individuals show when they are on a football pitch, the outcome is quite clear. Which is why certain users prefer talking about all this other stuff instead of going into detail.

The arguments many Ronaldo supporters in here make are also of the very superficial and easy to grasp sort. Claims that will convince people who have no clue about football. Oversimplify things and refuse to dive deeper so that one's own view isn't challenged.
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The problem is the Messi brigade want to talk as if every game is equal, an amazing hat-trick against Betis or whoever in a dead league game is not the same as one in the CL knockout stage.

Football is ultimately about winning trophies, so contributing to winning the biggest ones should be one of the key factors.
 
Cal? said:
The problem is the Messi brigade want to talk as if every game is equal, an amazing hat-trick against Betis or whoever in a dead league game is not the same as one in the CL knockout stage.

Football is ultimately about winning trophies, so contributing to winning the biggest ones should be one of the key factors.
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Messi has won more major trophies than Ronaldo over a shorter period of time. And he doesn’t only do it against the small teams that’s a complete myth. He dismantled some of our own best sides in the past, as well as Real Madrid when Ronaldo was at the height of his powers.
 
Updating this again, because why not.
Again please note the number of assists vary by source, some sources only give 30 assists for Messi (I have no idea why such a difference).

EDIT: I have to correct it as I missed 1 Messi app so the %s are very slightly wrong.
EDIT2: Actually it makes no difference in the rounding down I used here

************************************************************************************

Assists in the CL:

Messi 37 in 131 apps (0.28 assists/app)
Ronaldo 44 in 160 apps (0.27 assists/app)

Goals scored in CL:

Messi 108 in 131 apps (0.83 goals/app)
Ronaldo 124 in 160 apps (0.77 goals/app)

Messi has 66 goals in the group stages (61%) and 42 (38%) in the knockout stages.
Ronaldo has 61 goals in the group stages (49%) and 63 (50%) in the knockout stages.

Round of 16: Messi 26 goals (24%) Ronaldo 23 goals (18%)
Quarter-Finals: Messi 10 goals (9%) Ronaldo 23 goals (18%)
Semi-Finals: Messi 4 goals (3%) Ronaldo 13 goals (10%)
Finals: Messi 2 goals (1%) Ronaldo 4 goals (3%)

Messi goals:

Arsenal 9
Celtic Glasgow 8
AC Milan 8
Bayer Leverkusen 7
Ajax 6
Manchester City 6
Lyon 5
Bayern Munchen 4
Panathinaikos 4
Paris Saint-Germain 4
PSV 4
Spartak Moskva 4
APOEL Nicosia 3
Chelsea 3
Kobenhavn 3
Plzen 3
Shakhtar Donetsk 3
Stuttgart 3
Basel 2
BATE Borisov 2
Dynamo Kyiv 2
Juventus 2
Manchester United 2
Real Madrid 2
Roma 2
Tottenham 2
Borussia Monchengladbach 1
Glasgow Rangers 1
Olympiakos 1
Sporting CP 1
Werder Bremen 1

England 22 (Arsenal 9, Manchester City 6, Chelsea 3, Manchester United 2, Tottenham 2)
Germany 16 (Bayer Leverkusen 7, Bayern Munchen 4, Stuttgart 3, Borussia Monchengladbach 1, Werder Bremen 1)
Italy 12 (AC Milan 8, Juventus 2, Roma 2)
Netherlands 10 (Ajax 6, PSV 4)
France 9 (Lyon 5, Paris Saint-Germain 4)
Scotland 9 (Celtic Glasgow 8, Glasgow Rangers 1)
Greece 5 (Panathinaikos 4, Olympiakos 1)
Ukraine 5 (Shakhtar Donetsk 3, Dynamo Kyiv 2)
Russia 4 (Spartak Moskva 4)
Cyprus 3 (APOEL Nicosia 3)
Czech Republic 3 (Plzen 3)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Belarus 2 (BATE Borisov 2)
Spain 2 (Real Madrid 2)
Switzerland 2 (Basel 2)
Portugal 1 (Sporting CP 1)

Ronaldo goals:

Juventus 10
Bayern Munchen 9
Ajax 7
Atlético Madrid 7
Borussia Dortmund 7
Schalke 04 7
APOEL Nicosia 6
Galatasaray 6
Malmo 6
Roma 5
Shakhtar Donetsk 5
Lyon 4
Marseille 4
Tottenham 4
CSKA Moskva 3
Dynamo Kyiv 3
Kobenhavn 3
Manchester United 3
Paris Saint-Germain 3
Sporting CP 3
Wolfsburg 3
Arsenal 2
Basel 2
Ludogorets 2
AC Milan 2
Zurich 2
Auxerre 1
Chelsea 1
Inter 1
Liverpool 1
Manchester City 1
FC Porto 1

Germany 26 (Bayern Munchen 9, Borussia Dortmund 7, Schalke 04 7, Wolfsburg 3)
Italy 18 (Juventus 10, Roma 5, AC Milan 2, Inter 1)
England 12 (Tottenham 4, Manchester United 3, Arsenal 2, Chelsea 1, Liverpool 1, Manchester City 1)
France 12 (Lyon 4, Marseille 4, Paris Saint-Germain 3, Auxerre 1)
Ukraine 8 (Shakhtar Donetsk 5, Dynamo Kyiv 3)
Netherlands 7 (Ajax 7)
Spain 7 (Atlético Madrid 7)
Cyprus 6 (APOEL Nicosia 6)
Sweden 6 (Malmo 6)
Turkey 6 (Galatasaray 6)
Portugal 4 (Sporting CP 3, FC Porto 1)
Switzerland 4 (Basel 2, Zurich 2)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Russia 3 (CSKA Moskva 3)
Bulgaria 2 (Ludogorets 2)
 
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Tostao_80 said:
Are you Ronaldo fans dense or something? Follow carefully and you might understand. Cristiano fan, " well Ronaldo must be better because he's had the most individual awards in the last 7 years". Messi fan" well you cant exactly go by individual awards, because if you did, you would have to look at Diego and Platinis awards in the mid to late 80s. The most prestigious individual award at the TIME that the two could win was the Onze DAward, and Platini won it more times than Diego. Are you saying that Platini was better than Diego at the time?". Cristiano fan" of course not. But what the hell is an Onze award? Its meaningless, but Wenger, but this, but that".
Ladies and gentlemen, i present the reading comprehension and logic of Cristiano fans.
Heres another classic. Cristiano fan" Messi fans dont care about facts and figures" Messi fan" but in order to determine whos better, you need more than facts and figures, otherwise Lampard is better than Scholes and Zidane and Gerd Muller is top 5 of all time, for example". Cristiano fan, " but Lampard isnt better than Zidane". Messi fan, "but what about your argument of stats and figures? Anyway would you put Diego top 5 of all time". Cristiano fan, " yeah probably" Messi fan" but there are at least 10 players with better stats than him, youre not exactly being consistent with this whole stats argument are you?" Cristiano fan" but but but but, but look over there.
Come on ?cal, Peyroteo, Redronny, you and your cohorts need to do better.
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Are you still going to argue for Onze award? :lol:
 
Cal? said:
Ok no more cherry picking

The football world voted Ronaldo the better player in 10 out of the last 15 years!! :D
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That's exactly the point. If people accept Onze award as credible, they have to accept that Wenger > Fergie and Guardiola, which is ridiculous. They cant cherry pick any specific years to fit their own agenda and ignore the rest. Its double standard to the extreme.

On the other hand, if they accept Ballon D'or as credible, they have to accept Ronaldo > Messi in 10 out of last 15 years too.
 
RedRonaldo said:
That's exactly the point. If people accept Onze award as credible, they have to accept that Wenger > Fergie and Guardiola, which is ridiculous. They cant cherry pick any specific years to fit their own agenda and ignore the rest. Its double standard to the extreme.

On the other hand, if they accept Ballon D'or as credible, they have to accept Ronaldo > Messi in 10 out of last 15 years too.
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Nothing is credible except their eye test, or something
 
Cal? said:
The problem is the Messi brigade want to talk as if every game is equal, an amazing hat-trick against Betis or whoever in a dead league game is not the same as one in the CL knockout stage.

Football is ultimately about winning trophies, so contributing to winning the biggest ones should be one of the key factors.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo has been the difference in more KO CL games recently compared to Messi, I think every person that favours Messi believes this to be true. Personally, I think against a well drilled defensive elite team, Ronaldo's heading ability is more likely to yield a goal directly than Messi and his technical attributes going on the last few years' evidence.

This hasn't always been the case, for a lot of Ronaldo's career he was questioned about his ability to decide big games, while this was happening, Messi was doing unprecedented things in the CL and putting in performances that had pundits and legendary managers around the world proclaiming him to be the best ever at the age of 23-24, something that is seldom said about Ronaldo throughout his career. This wasn't because he was scoring hattricks against La Liga teams - the likes of Neville, Souness, Wenger, Capello etc were saying this after CL games - you lot act as if Messi is some CL choker when his performances earlier in his career were so outstanding it had people clamouring to call him the best ever. He has been disappointing in the last few years in the QF, but that doesn't wipe away what he has done in the past no matter how much people that prefer Ronaldo try to.

Ronaldo's CL stats are awe inspiring, but Messi's performances on the pitch are. No matter how many goals Ronaldo scores, he hasn't performed to the level Messi has and never will. You can paint it as a results/pragmatism/stats vs. aesthetic/romance argument, but Messi's stats are better in a lot of cases too so it falls flat.
 
roonster09 said:
While I agree with some of the points, most of the points are just nonsense. Messi fans fails to recognize off the ball, movement as part of football. They consider only on ball skill as something that matters. These points are made by Ronaldo fans so many times, somehow it's ignored and usual thing starts.
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I don't know about others, but I recognize elements of Ronaldo's game and I know full well they are world class. His awareness, off the ball movement, finding space, shaking defenders off, taking advantage of half-chances, I realize he is a beast in many aspects of the game. I think off the ball movement is crucial in football, especially for someone whose job is to score goals.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
Ronaldo has had been the difference in more KO CL games recently compared to Messi, I think every person that favours Messi believes this to be true. Personally, I think against a well drilled defensive elite team, Ronaldo's heading ability is more likely to yield a goal directly than Messi and his technical attributes going on the last few years' evidence.

This hasn't always been the case, for a lot of Ronaldo's career he was questioned about his ability to decide big games, while this was happening, Messi was doing unprecedented things in the CL and putting in performances that had pundits and legendary managers around the world proclaiming him to be the best ever at the age of 23-24, something that is seldom said about Ronaldo throughout his career. This wasn't because he was scoring hattricks against La Liga teams - the likes of Neville, Souness, Wenger, Capello etc were saying this after CL games - you lot act as if Messi is some CL choker when his performances earlier in his career were so outstanding it had people clamouring to call him the best ever. He has been disappointing in the last few years in the QF, but that doesn't wipe away what he has done in the past no matter how much people that prefer Ronaldo try to.

Ronaldo's CL stats are awe inspiring, but Messi's performances on the pitch are. No matter how many goals Ronaldo scores, he hasn't performed to the level Messi has and never will. You can paint it as a results/pragmatism/stats vs. aesthetic/romance argument, but Messi's stats are better in a lot of cases too so it falls flat.
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The point is that Messi in those years also happen to play with the best team ever assembled. 2009, Messi was not the one who decided the Scandal of Stamford Bridge, Iniesta or Ovebro did that. As for 2011, Alves contributed more with getting Pepe sent off.
 
Cal? said:
The point is that Messi in those years also happen to play with the best team ever assembled. 2009, Messi was not the one who decided the Scandal of Stamford Bridge, Iniesta or Ovebro did that. As for 2011, Alves contributed more with getting Pepe sent off.
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You say this as if Ronaldo never had been bailed out by Ramos, Bale or whoever.
 
RedRonaldo said:
That's exactly the point. If people accept Onze award as credible, they have to accept that Wenger > Fergie and Guardiola, which is ridiculous. They cant cherry pick any specific years to fit their own agenda and ignore the rest. Its double standard to the extreme.

On the other hand, if they accept Ballon D'or as credible, they have to accept Ronaldo > Messi in 10 out of last 15 years too.
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You do realize you're essentially arguing against Ballon d'Or as a measuring stick? You're arguing against Cal's point while trying to agree with him.
 
Cal? said:
The point is that Messi in those years also happen to play with the best team ever assembled. 2009, Messi was not the one who decided the Scandal of Stamford Bridge, Iniesta or Ovebro did that. As for 2011, Alves contributed more with getting Pepe sent off.
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So he was playing in the best team ever assembled yet no one else but him was being lauded as the best player ever? He stood out among all that talent - just as he stood out as the better player in pretty much every game he has faced Ronaldo in pre, during and post Pep. Wasn't that 2011 game the one where Messi dribbled from the halfway line through half the Madrid team? No one in the world other than Messi could score that goal yet you're talking about Alves.

As the poster above says Bale, Ramos, Marcelo, Ulreich, the Munich ref and Karius etc have bailed Ronaldo out just as Messi has had good luck and been bailed out on occasion, that doesn't completely negate everything Messi did for the 4 or so years he easily outperformed Ronaldo in the CL.
 
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Tostao_80 said:
Oh, lordy. Is that the best you have? Shouldn't you be in your basement researching more "stats"? Ill help you out. 2 names: Josef Biscan and Arthur Friedenreich (scorers of over 2000 goals combined, exciting i know, dont cream your pants). More members of your mythical top 5 of all time (alongside Cristiano, Muller and Inzhagi)
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Ahh , the meltdown..:lol::lol:
Why don't you retire from this thread ( like your idol) and come back again in full glory? Bring your onze D'or stats also, while you are at it :D
 
roonster09 said:
While I agree with some of the points, most of the points are just nonsense. Messi fans fails to recognize off the ball, movement as part of football. They consider only on ball skill as something that matters. These points are made by Ronaldo fans so many times, somehow it's ignored and usual thing starts.
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They are not ignored. Thing is, Messi's movement between the lines and in combination play is as good as Ronaldo's behind the defense and in the box. Nonsense is that people pretend Cristiano is miles ahead of him in terms of off the bqll movement. Just look how many times Messi brings himself in dangerous scoring position although he started the attack himself. Or how he always manages to escape his markers and receive the ball in the most dangerous areas. You need incredible positional awareness and timing to do score as much as he does although he's not primarily moving in the area in which most goals are scored.

Cal? said:
The problem is the Messi brigade want to talk as if every game is equal, an amazing hat-trick against Betis or whoever in a dead league game is not the same as one in the CL knockout stage.

Football is ultimately about winning trophies, so contributing to winning the biggest ones should be one of the key factors.
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No, we don't. What we disagree on is the term contributing. I think you simply don't understand how much Messi contributes besides scoring, also against the best opponents. You have a completely different perception of football than me. Your's is simple and straight forward, you don't really acknowledge midfield plays and how attacks are initiated. How important retaining possession and outplaying defenders through passes amd dribbles are. How you open up space for yourself and others and create superiority in dangerous area. For you it's only goal scoring. We won't come to an agreement since I think you've got no clue how the sports is played and are unable to identify (potentially) decisive plays and you think I'm a Messi fanboy who likes to overcomplicate things.
 
zkap said:
You do realize you're essentially arguing against Ballon d'Or as a measuring stick? You're arguing against Cal's point while trying to agree with him.
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I didn't draw any conclusion here. If someone don't accept Ballon D'or as credible, while majority accept it, its their own choice. I am just pointing out using Onze award, an award where majority haven't heard of, as reference to prove any point, is a complete joke.
 
Funny how the ones defending de ballon d'or are the same guys that claim that Modric wasn't that good in the discussion of who had the best team.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
This hasn't always been the case, for a lot of Ronaldo's career he was questioned about his ability to decide big games, while this was happening, Messi was doing unprecedented things in the CL and putting in performances that had pundits and legendary managers around the world proclaiming him to be the best ever at the age of 23-24, something that is seldom said about Ronaldo throughout his career. This wasn't because he was scoring hattricks against La Liga teams - the likes of Neville, Souness, Wenger, Capello etc were saying this after CL games - you lot act as if Messi is some CL choker when his performances earlier in his career were so outstanding it had people clamouring to call him the best ever. He has been disappointing in the last few years in the QF, but that doesn't wipe away what he has done in the past no matter how much people that prefer Ronaldo try to.
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Which games did Messi play in the CL when he was much younger that were considered master-classes without him scoring? From what I recall, the games that had the pundits and commentators creaming their pants were his 4 goal haul against Arsenal in 09/10 (he was poor in the 1st leg) & the 5 goal haul against Leverkusen in 11/12 (leverkusen were extremely poor on the day and had the likes of Tello running riot against them). In the CL semis against Madrid in 10/11 he only came to life after Pepe was wrongfully dismissed and Madrid were at a numerical disadvantage which sabotaged their tactics.
 
MrEleson said:
Which games did Messi play in the CL when he was much younger that were considered master-classes without him scoring? From what I recall, the games that had the pundits and commentators creaming their pants were his 4 goal haul against Arsenal in 09/10 (he was poor in the 1st leg) & the 5 goal haul against Leverkusen in 11/12 (leverkusen were extremely poor on the day and had the likes of Tello running riot against them). In the CL semis against Madrid in 10/11 he only came to life after Pepe was wrongfully dismissed and Madrid were at a numerical disadvantage which sabotaged their tactics.
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Game against Man City was an all time classic in CL. In 2015. He clowned the best team in England.
 
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