Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Prometheus said:
You said Portugal won 10 games in a row WITHOUT Ronaldo (emphasis yours).

Where did that come from?
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So I was mistaken and I apologize. They had gone 6 in a row without defeat without Ronaldo:

http://www.espn.com/soccer/team/results/_/id/482/portugal


I’m trying to find where I got the ten games without Ronaldo stat I know there was an article about it somewhere. Portugal are obviously better with him but Portugal as a team are better than Argentina who had some of the worst chemistry on the pitch of all national teams.
 
Daysleeper said:
So I was mistaken and I apologize. They had gone 6 in a row without defeat without Ronaldo:

http://www.espn.com/soccer/team/results/_/id/482/portugal


I’m trying to find where I got the ten games without Ronaldo stat I know there was an article about it somewhere. Portugal are obviously better with him but Portugal as a team are better than Argentina who had some of the worst chemistry on the pitch of all national teams.
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Yeah, it is DWWWDD or a variation of that I think.

Anyway, I think I'm procrastinating on this thread now!
 
Daysleeper said:
Right, the guy who gets player of the tournament wasn’t inspired to be a GOAT.

Meanwhile Ronaldo also hasn’t scored during the knockout rounds of the WC yet he’s a GOAT?
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Shamana said:
This is just such weird criteria to set for a player. As if all the hundreds of other games dont matter. I dont think Cruyff won his wc final either but thats not slight on his legacy. Players like Best never got a chance to shine in a WC.

Anyway Messi has shone in many other big games and finals.

Why is Ronaldo greater than someone like Pele? Is it because the standards of football is considered lower?
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Try reading the bit I quoted.
 
Donk87 said:
In the CL Ronaldo has more assists and goals but he's also played more games. Looking at a per game basis gives a more accurate picture:

Ronaldo - 160 appearances, 124 goals, 36 assists. 0.77 goals per game, 0.22 assists per game.
Messi - 131 appearances, 108 goals, 29 assists. 0.82 goals per game, 0.22 assists per game.

Not much between them really.
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You play more games in UCL because you help your team to qualify for the next stage...not Ronaldo's fault, that's not an excuse mate
 
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Hala Madrid said:
You play more games because in UCL because you help your team to qualify for the next stage...not Ronaldo's fault, that's not an excuse mate
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Excuse? What? Who said anything was Ronaldo's fault?

It's great that Ronaldo fans point out his goals and assists record in the CL - it's pretty impressive - but it would help if people mentioned gametime. Context is an important thing.

Ronaldo's played in 17 CL campaigns, Messi in 15. Some years Ronaldo's teams went further, some years Messi's did. End result - they assist at the same rate and Messi scores at a slightly higher rate.

Does this make Ronaldo better? No. Does it make Messi better? No. Does it inform the discussion? Yes.
 
MJJ said:
Neuer player in the copa? Also it was clearly a joke.
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The Copa has this weird thing where they invite a random team to join the tournament. For example, Qatar will be in this year's Copa.

So who knows, maybe one day the dream of Neuer in the Copa will come true :lol:
 
Daysleeper said:
The Copa has this weird thing where they invite a random team to join the tournament. For example, Qatar will be in this year's Copa.

So who knows, maybe one day the dream of Neuer in the Copa will come true :lol:
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I meant that if FIFA is looking for Messi to win an International tournament with his NT, that penalty would've been a great opportunity for them
 
Pocho said:
I meant that if FIFA is looking for Messi to win an International tournament with his NT, that penalty would've been a great opportunity for them
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Nah, missing that penalty sucked but Biglia’s miss ended it. Chile scored every penalty they took.
 
Daysleeper said:
No it wasn’t. Watch the both of them week in and week out and you’ll see.

Ronaldo has also been a passenger in 75% of the CL finals he plays in. Didn’t even score after the quarter finals of CL last year.

The difference between Messi and Ronaldo is that when Ronaldo is a passenger his teams still managed to drag the team over the finish line whereas if Messi is a passenger the rest of the team doesn’t show up ether.
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You're seriously crediting Messi for the scandal of Stamford Bridge ahead of Iniesta or Ovebro!?
 
TambourineMan said:
The fact is when both careers are over and people look back, Messi has a legitimate claim to be being the best playmaker ever and the best goal scorer ever. Ronaldo on the other hand can only lay claim to being the best goal scorer of all time.


The greats are often broken down into their excellence in defending, controlling, creating or goal scoring. Very rarely are players measured for greatness outside these parameters as they are the most important facets of football. Name me one player who is remembered for being great outside these broad categories. I can assure you that they are deemed to be great because they excel in the categories defined above and not some extended field of excellence designed to include them.


Based on those categories, Messi through his career has done enough to be named either the best creator or goal scorer ever. Ronaldo to being the best goal scorer alone.


It’s for that reason that I can’t understand how people think Ronaldo is better. It just doesn’t make sense. Goals aren’t everything and even if they were, Messi has a better goal per game ratio through his career. It’s a massive credit to Ronaldo that he is even in this conversation.
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This again? :rolleyes:
(I should save this for copy and paste)

1. Messi started in a dominant Barcelona side whereas Ronaldo started at Sporting and then a United in transition.
2. Messi has always had a freer role in the Barca side (even when he was playing right wing) than Ronaldo in his earliers as a winger.
3. No one is arguing that Messi at 18 isn't better than Ronaldo at 18, but Rooney at 18 was probably better than Ronaldo at 18 too, that doesn't make him a better player OVERALL.
 
IFC 1905 said:
I really appreciate the fact that I can watch Ronaldo play and I really respect him, but I don't understand how can he be compared to Messi. One is a legendary player, one of the best of all times without a single doubt, a goal scoring machine and a leader for his team, for sure. The other one is a genius. There are a few geniuses at sports, I'd say Jordan, Federer, Tom Brady, Maradona and Messi are geniuses. These people see things differently, their mind works faster and their decision making is unmatched.

You watch Messi play and nowadays he always takes the right choice or sees passes we can't even see from the TV nor the stands while dribbling between people.



On his day and being inspired there's no way for any team in the world to stop Messi, as he dribbles and passes the ball like nobody else in the world, so the variety of damage he can cause is way huger than Ronaldo's. Not to mention his ability to score ni many ways and with both legs.


You can't compare him to any other player, Maradona wasn't as good as a goalscorer, Pele wasn't as good as a creator. Messi is a mix between both, dribbles and has the vision of Diego and scores like Pele. His technique and ability/instinct is just as good as anyone. I'd say Ronaldo only has instinct to score goals and then he's a really good player in other aspects but he's not an elite creator player, he's just ok. It's a reality that Ronaldo cannot create something out of nowhere, he needs to be provided most of time, since 2009 or so. On the other hand Messi does thing which nobody expects and goes through people in a way you can't just believe it.
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On his day? The problem is we haven't seen any of those days in the big games for a few years now.

Greatness is defined by trophies you lead your team to.
 
Daysleeper said:
Right, the guy who gets player of the tournament wasn’t inspired to be a GOAT.

Meanwhile Ronaldo also hasn’t scored during the knockout rounds of the WC yet he’s a GOAT?
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How many WC knockout round goals has Messi scored?

Hint, it's a big round number.

ZERO!!!
 
Cal? said:
On his day? The problem is we haven't seen any of those days in the big games for a few years now.

Greatness is defined by trophies you lead your team to.
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The guy destroyed Chelsea last year in a game where Barca were losing on aggregate heading into it.

And Messi has been leading Barca to far more trophies than Ronaldo has been leading for Real. So you're right about greatness and trophies.

Ronaldo didn't score a single goal after the QF last year. And right now is on pace to have his worst CL campaign in ages.
 
Donk87 said:
Excuse? What? Who said anything was Ronaldo's fault?

It's great that Ronaldo fans point out his goals and assists record in the CL - it's pretty impressive - but it would help if people mentioned gametime. Context is an important thing.

Ronaldo's played in 17 CL campaigns, Messi in 15. Some years Ronaldo's teams went further, some years Messi's did. End result - they assist at the same rate and Messi scores at a slightly higher rate.

Does this make Ronaldo better? No. Does it make Messi better? No. Does it inform the discussion? Yes.
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Yet again you're including Ronaldo's earlier years as a winger. :rolleyes:

The CL stats are beyond debate if you look at 2007 onwards
 
Daysleeper said:
The guy destroyed Chelsea last year in a game where Barca were losing on aggregate heading into it.

Ronaldo didn't score a single goal after the QF last year. And right now is on pace to have his worst CL campaign in ages.
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What happened against Roma?

Ronaldo didn't score after the QF, Messi didn't even progress pass the QF.
 
Cal? said:
What happened against Roma?

Ronaldo didn't score after the QF, Messi didn't even progress pass the QF.
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Roma ain't a big game so he didn't had to show up there whereas Chelsea was a big one even after the fact that they were struggling in the league, had lost all kinds of form before going into the game and couldn't qualify for the CL this season.

Funny thing is they will keep saying Ronaldo didn't score after QFs last year but will keep quoting 1 or 2 odd CL KOs in recent history where Messi performed.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Roma ain't a big game so he didn't had to show up there whereas Chelsea was a big one even after the fact that they were struggling in the league, had lost all kinds of form before going into the game and couldn't qualify for the CL this season.
Funny thing is they will keep saying Ronaldo didn't score after QFs last year but will keep quoting 1 or 2 odd CL KOs in recent history where Messi performed.
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Messi doesn't need to score to perform, Ronaldo instead is invisible when he doesn't score. Maybe Ronaldo fans, one day, understand the difference between a total footballer and a goal scorer, is not that complicated.
 
Pocho said:
Messi doesn't need to score to perform, Ronaldo instead is invisible when he doesn't score. Maybe Ronaldo fans, one day, understand the difference between a total footballer and a goal scorer, is not that complicated.
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Yeah he sure performed a lot in that match, even missed a one on one as he doesn't need to score to perform.
 
Pocho said:
Messi doesn't need to score to perform, Ronaldo instead is invisible when he doesn't score. Maybe Ronaldo fans, one day, understand the difference between a total footballer and a goal scorer, is not that complicated.
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I am still in awe of the performances Messi gave when Roma knocked them out. For that matter his performances against Juventus and Atletico games from the previous editions of the CL were a spectacle to watch too.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I am still in awe of the performances Messi gave when Roma knocked them out. For that matter his performances against Juventus and Atletico games from the previous editions of the CL were a spectacle to watch too.
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It actually was pretty good. Thanks for exposing yourself as a non-watching statbaby.
 
Schneckerl said:
It actually was pretty good. Thanks for exposing yourself as a non-watching statbaby.
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Cheers. Losing 3-0 on aggregate doesn't really matter now does it? That Juve defence went untested for 180 minutes but hey don't let that make you think otherwise.
 
Schneckerl said:
It actually was pretty good. Thanks for exposing yourself as a non-watching statbaby.
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Criistiano's performance against Juve at the Bernabeu last year was pathetic but he score a pen so they don't talk about it.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
That Juve defence went untested for 180 minutes but hey don't let that make you think otherwise.
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No. We had people writing essays defending Cristiano playing great in his first few game for Juventus at the start of the season where he had problems scoring (which I agree with). Of course that's impossible for Messi. Impressive double standards yet again.
 
Pocho said:
Messi doesn't need to score to perform, Ronaldo instead is invisible when he doesn't score. Maybe Ronaldo fans, one day, understand the difference between a total footballer and a goal scorer, is not that complicated.
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Well said. Sums everything up.
 
Schneckerl said:
No. We had people writing essays defending Cristiano playing great in his first few game for Juventus at the start of the season where he had problems scoring (which I agree with). Of course that's impossible for Messi. Impressive double standards yet again.
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Let me quote the post i had replied to:

Messi doesn't need to score to perform, Ronaldo instead is invisible when he doesn't score. Maybe Ronaldo fans, one day, understand the difference between a total footballer and a goal scorer, is not that complicated.
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All I said is that neither I saw goals nor I saw any kind of 'great' performance from Messi in both legs. Juventus had conceded only 3 or 4 goals in the entire tournament before the final. Its natural for anyone to have a bad day against them. But to wax lyric everything Messi does is something I don't acknowledge and I replied to that.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Let me quote the post i had replied:
All I said is that neither I saw goals nor I saw any kind of 'great' performance from Messi in both legs. Juventus had conceded only 3 or 4 goals in the entire tournament before the final. Its natural for anyone to have a bad day against them. But to wax lyric everything Messi does is something I don't acknowledge and I replied to that.
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Alright. No, it certainly wasn't great. Better than his games vs Atletico and Roma though. Overall Messi underperformed massively in recent years in QFs, that's hard to deny.
 
Schneckerl said:
Alright. No, it certainly wasn't great. Better than his games vs Atletico and Roma though. Overall Messi underperformed massively in recent years in QFs, that's hard to deny.
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Maybe he underperformed by his standards, but still the better player.
 
Cal? said:
Yet again you're including Ronaldo's earlier years as a winger. :rolleyes:

The CL stats are beyond debate if you look at 2007 onwards
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Yeah, up until 2015, let's forget that in the last 3 seasons Ronaldo has been playing like Hugo Sanchez and Messi like Pablo Aimar. That's when goals are absolute.

If you want to distinguish different phases in their careers at least you could hold the same standards 90% of the time.
 
Ishdalar said:
Yeah, up until 2015, let's forget that in the last 3 seasons Ronaldo has been playing like Hugo Sanchez and Messi like Pablo Aimar. That's when goals are absolute.

If you want to distinguish different phases in their careers at least you could hold the same standards 90% of the time.
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:lol: You lot are so transparent. Messi is doing so well in the league, scoring so many more than Ronaldo, yada yada.

The Champions League? He's been the sweeper in the last 3 years, it doesn't count! :rolleyes:
 
has there ever been another time when two players were so good for so long. I mean competing with one another vying for the best in the world tag? Like we all know Pele and Maradona but they're two different eras.

I can't pick anymore, both of these guys are just exceptional talents and I'm glad I'm getting to witness it. I'd imagine it's a bit like old timers that tell you about when they got to see George Best in the flesh. In 30 / 40 years people will still be talking about these two, without question.
 
Cal? said:
:lol: You lot are so transparent. Messi is doing so well in the league, scoring so many more than Ronaldo, yada yada.

The Champions League? He's been the sweeper in the last 3 years, it doesn't count! :rolleyes:
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Honestly you are completely forgetting Messi's gameplay. And the fact he's not greedy at all. If he was as greedy as Ronaldo, Messi would easily have 50 more goals all round and another 10 in CL. I've just been watching CL highlights with Barca and every goal they score Messi has something to do with it, and even when it isn't goal or an assist, he has some involvement somehow.

Still don't get why this is a debate anyway. If you want goals, Ronaldo. If you want the whole package (goals and everything else) Messi.

And you keep mentioning Ronaldo being a winger in his early years being the reason he has lower goals to game ratio. Messi's not exactly a striker is he? He starts from CM position mostly. And may I also mention the load of wonder goals hes scored out of nowhere, created them himself. The whole position thing is absolute rubbish.
 
RedRonaldo said:
What are you talking about? Onze award? What is it? Never heard of it before. I don't think anyone cares even a player win it 10 times.
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Cal? said:
Onze D’or? Seriously you’re just going to use some random award no one has heard of as the basis of your argument? :rolleyes:
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Rito said:
Shifting of goalposts by some Messi fans is truly insane. Onze d'or? Seriously? Next is what? Puskas award to measure greatness?
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FYI in the 1980s the Onze D'or was voted on by top football journalists from around the world. It was a more accurate and meaningful award than the France Football one during the 1980s

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwL4ev1QI1K6ZEg3YVlQdTlLWlU/edit
 
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