Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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  • Ronaldo

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Learned today that Ronaldo has 34 La Liga hat tricks and Messi has now 33.
Those numbers are stupid. Vast majority of attackers go throughout their careers without a single hat trick.
 
SCP said:
So you’re challenging my logic? Ok. Care to explain why a player who is having by large distance the best season shouldn’t win a individual award because the current logic is players who win World Cups or Champions League are the ones who win it?

Individual awards should be given to the best individual player, not to the best player of a team who wins a few knockout games on a short space of time dismissing everything done on the rest of the season.

And if you don’t like my explanation you’re entitled to it. I have a strong opinion on this, for me this type of awards only promote vanity, egos and a lot of ammunition for the media and to promote the commercial interests of the multinational brands like Nike or Adidas.

That and the interests of the superagents and their marketeers.

So just because the logic is to give it to who won a certain final I will not say a player who’s performing better than the others isn’t better just because he lost a game.

Simple.
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There we go again, the simple answer is that not all games are equal to each other, beating Atletico in the 2nd leg of a CL knockout tie is much more impressive than Betis in a league that is already won.
 
wub1234 said:
I understand why because you really like Ronaldo. But when all is done and dusted, he won’t be ranked in the same bracket as Messi, who will probably go down as the best player ever, and certainly one of the best three players ever.

Ronaldo will not, I can assure you.
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:lol: This based on the fact the football world has voted Ronaldo the better player in 7 out of the last 12 years?
 
Revan said:
Despite that it isn't. The quote argument can be used to prove anything you want (like Scholes being better than Xavi, Pirlo or Zidane). You can find similar quotes for Ronaldo, it means feck all.

Also, he said only last year that Madrid should sell Ronaldo, cause Bale is already better which should disqualify him from ever taking part in this debate. It is right there with the worst opinions of all time.
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Wrong, you will not find many similar quotes on Ronaldo. Look at what former players and managers have to say about the two, theres a huge disparity in who they call the best ever. Find me former colleagues of Messi that proclaim Ronaldo to be the best ever. You wont. Ask Rooney, Scholes and Rio what they think of Messi. Ronaldo doesnt have the natural talent and ability to join Pele and Diego. He's one of the greatest goalscorers of all time, who maximized the talent he was given. Unfortunately, that can only get you so far.
 
Cal? said:
:lol: This based on the fact the football world has voted Ronaldo the better player in 7 out of the last 12 years?
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Great logic there. Platini won more individual awards than Diego. Who is regarded as greater? Didnt Owen win more Balon dors than Titi Henry? I guess he was greater too. Jamie Vardy has won more Barclay player of the season awards than Kun Aguero. I guess that makes Vardy a greater premier league player. Come on Cal, do better
 
Tostao_80 said:
Great logic there. Platini won more individual awards than Diego. Who is regarded as greater? Didnt Owen win more Balon dors than Titi Henry? I guess he was greater too. Jamie Vardy has won more Barclay player of the season awards than Kun Aguero. I guess that makes Vardy a greater premier league player. Come on Cal, do better
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You can get crazy results on one off years, but not over more than a decade.
 
Eboue said:
Don't you people ever get tired of having the same arguments with the same people week after week year after year?
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Summed up this thread in the first page. It will never be settled and just goes around in circles.

Fast forward 2 years and it will be the same old arguments from the same people.
 
Cal? said:
You can get crazy results on one off years, but not over more than a decade.
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Platini won 3 Ballon Dors in a row. Are you calling all 3 wins crazy results in one off years? Cal, come on. You're slipping.
 
Cal? said:
There we go again, the simple answer is that not all games are equal to each other, beating Atletico in the 2nd leg of a CL knockout tie is much more impressive than Betis in a league that is already won.
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@Cal? My opinion isn’t based on yesterday. Simple question. Who is playing better this season, Messi or Ronaldo?
 
Tostao_80 said:
Platini won 3 Ballon Dors in a row. Are you calling all 3 wins crazy results in one off years? Cal, come on. You're slipping.
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The fact that non-Europeans were not under consideration before 1995 might have something to do with it.
 
SCP said:
@Cal? My opinion isn’t based on yesterday. Simple question yes or no. Who is playing better this season, Messi or Ronaldo?
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That's an A or B question, not a Yes or No question. :smirk:

Messi if the season ended now.
 
Cal? said:
That's an A or B question, not a Yes or No question. :smirk:

Messi if the season ended now.
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Yeah I was going to change it. But honest answer. Final one now. If Ronaldo wins the Champions League and Messi no who deserves to win the award?
 
SCP said:
And if he doesn’t and Ronaldo doesn’t we know who will win it right?
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Well, somehow Messi has another chance in the Copa America again (it's almost as if Conmebol are holding as many of these as they possibly can to give Messi extra chances to eventually win one :rolleyes: )
 
Cal? said:
Well, somehow Messi has another chance in the Copa America again (it's almost as if Conmebol are holding as many of these as they possibly can to give Messi extra chances to eventually win one :rolleyes: )
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It’s in Brasil. Anyway this time they won’t blame Higuain.:lol:
 
SCP said:
Yeah I was going to change it. But honest answer. Final one now. If Ronaldo wins the Champions League and Messi no who deserves to win the award?
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Well everyone knows whoever wins the CL as the best player, will usually have bigger advantage in winning these awards. Scoring a few more league goals or assists over the closest rivals usually doesn't make the cut, unless Messi has another crazy individual season like 60-80 goals a year etc and far ahead of everyone else. But up to this point, I agree Messi has been the best player throughout the season.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Well everyone knows whoever wins the CL as the best player, will usually have bigger advantage in winning these awards. Scoring a few more league goals or assists over the closest rivals usually doesn't make the cut, unless Messi has another crazy individual season like 60-80 goals a year etc and far ahead of everyone else. But up to this point, I agree Messi has been the best player throughout the season.
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How do you like Juventus’s chances against a team like Man City?
 
Tostao_80 said:
Great logic there. Platini won more individual awards than Diego. Who is regarded as greater? Didnt Owen win more Balon dors than Titi Henry? I guess he was greater too. Jamie Vardy has won more Barclay player of the season awards than Kun Aguero. I guess that makes Vardy a greater premier league player. Come on Cal, do better
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Tostao_80 said:
Platini won 3 Ballon Dors in a row. Are you calling all 3 wins crazy results in one off years? Cal, come on. You're slipping.
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Do you realize before 1995, only European players were eligible to win the Ballon D'or? You can't use Ballon D'or for reference if you want fair comparison in any Maradona vs Platini discussion.
 
Daysleeper said:
How do you like Juventus’s chances against a team like Man City?
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I think City has greater chances, Juventus as a team doesn't impress me much. But I also felt Liverpool has greater chances to beat Barca in knockout stages.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I think City has greater chances, Juventus as a team doesn't impress me much. But I also felt Liverpool has greater chances to beat Barca in knockout stages.
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I think Liverpool will beat Barca as
well. I worry about them countering and pressing the hell out of Barca.
 
Ronaldo won the Euro cup. But did he has astonishing performance during the tournament? He don't even play in final. Whosorced rating on him was 7.18, not even the top ten player.

In contrast, Messi's rating was 8.35 in Copa America, 8.52 in 2014 world cup. the top player in both tournament.

People's conclusion: Ronaldo play well in Portugal, Messi is bad in Agentina???
 
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MJJ said:
Copa's definitely.
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True ..i genuinely think Messi with all his talents has massively underperformed in NT ..also seems like he had lot of say in choosing managers and team so that should be even more on Messi

On the other hand , Ronaldo thrives under pressure while playing for NT and has done more than enough to make him greater at NT level

He was supreme in euro 2012 and played key role in Portugal winning in 2016 (despite not able to play in final because of injury
 
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RedRonaldo said:
Do you realize before 1995, only European players were eligible to win the Ballon D'or? You can't use Ballon D'or for reference if you want fair comparison in any Maradona vs Platini discussion.
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Obviously he didn't know, now he's too embarrassed to own up to his stupid logic.

Just like many Messi fans here, who "watch football with their eyes", but ignore facts and figures. We have a great word for that, delusion
 
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ayushreddevil9 said:
It would be a great round of semis i must say. Away from the usual RM, FCB and atleticos
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Agreed, for a while there it seemed like it was always going to be a combination of those teams plus Bayern or maybe a random Cinderella team.
 
Daysleeper said:
I think Liverpool will beat Barca as
well. I worry about them countering and pressing the hell out of Barca.
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It will be unbearable to watch Liverpool vs City final. If we don't beat Barca, I'd rather we have Juventus vs Barca.
 
Rito said:
Obviously he didn't know, now he's too embarrassed to own up to his stupid logic.

Just like many Messi fans here, who "watch football with their eyes", but ignore facts and figures. We have a great word for that, delusion
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Cal and Red Ronaldo, do you really know what you are talking about? You are totally wrong. We dont deal with alternative facts here.

Google the Onze_dor awards and look at the years 86 and 87 and you will see that Diego himself won tge award in both years. In 85, he was behind the winner Platini. Also, Kempes won the award in 1978, is he European? Know what you are talking about.

Anyway, back to Cals rgument. Platini must be greater than Diego because he won more Onze, D'or awards, the most prestigious individual award in world football at the time.
 
RedRonaldo said:
It will be unbearable to watch Liverpool vs City final. If we don't beat Barca, I'd rather we have Juventus vs Barca.
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That will be disaster ..ideally both team getting knocked out before final will be ideal and juve/Barca final

I think it will be Barça v/ city final and Barca to tear apart city
 
Rito said:
Obviously he didn't know, now he's too embarrassed to own up to his stupid logic.

Just like many Messi fans here, who "watch football with their eyes", but ignore facts and figures. We have a great word for that, delusion
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Well, personally I don't really care about those facts and figures you are talking about. Football is so complex and contextual that you can hardly quantify it, especially not with such superficial metrics. More in-depth KPIs like packing rate or goal impact are a different story, though, and Messi's leading in them, too, as far as I know. Still, qualitative analysis (aka the eye test) is still the best instrument for judgement although it is more subjective.
 
Cal? said:
:lol: This based on the fact the football world has voted Ronaldo the better player in 7 out of the last 12 years?
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If that's true it's simply because Messi had such a good year in 2012 that everything he has done since is perceived as underperforming for him.
I'll never understand why people believe Ronaldo is better.
 
Zehner said:
Well, personally I don't really care about those facts and figures you are talking about. Football is so complex and contextual that you can hardly quantify it, especially not with such superficial metrics. More in-depth KPIs like packing rate or goal impact are a different story, though, and Messi's leading in them, too, as far as I know. Still, qualitative analysis (aka the eye test) is still the best instrument for judgement although it is more subjective.
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Thats the issue with their argument. If it were down to their facts and figures, someone like Gerd Muller would be a top 3 of all time candidate. Im surprised the likes of Cal and Peyroteo havent argued that. I mean, who cares about watching him nd realising that the likes of Cruyff and Diego were far superior? Another example of this is Iniesta. His stats and figures have been far eclipsed by many an attacking midfielder (Lampard comes to mind). Will anyone in their right mind claim that Lampard was better/ greater after watching the two play. Facts and figures will only get you so far. When youre competing for GOATdom, you have to look beyond that. Genius, magic, otherwordly ability, the ability to leave watchers in absolute awe (ask Betis fans at the weekend. When has Cristiano received that? This is ultimately why the greatest players of all time are usually named as Pele, Diego, Cruyff et al. They made the game look so simple. Cristiano is a tryer, he doesn't have that effect, and he never will.
 
RepardReece said:
If that's true it's simply because Messi had such a good year in 2012 that everything he has done since is perceived as underperforming for him.
I'll never understand why people believe Ronaldo is better.
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Ronaldo had such a good year in 2008 that it took four years for the world to forget his performance and stop perceiving him as underperforming. Its the only reason why messi won balon dors.
 
Tostao_80 said:
Thats the issue with their argument. If it were down to their facts and figures, someone like Gerd Muller would be a top 3 of all time candidate. Im surprised the likes of Cal and Peyroteo havent argued that. I mean, who cares about watching him nd realising that the likes of Cruyff and Diego were far superior? Another example of this is Iniesta. His stats and figures have been far eclipsed by many an attacking midfielder (Lampard comes to mind). Will anyone in their right mind claim that Lampard was better/ greater after watching the two play. Facts and figures will only get you so far. When youre competing for GOATdom, you have to look beyond that. Genius, magic, otherwordly ability, the ability to leave watchers in absolute awe (ask Betis fans at the weekend. When has Cristiano received that? This is ultimately why the greatest players of all time are usually named as Pele, Diego, Cruyff et al. They made the game look so simple. Cristiano is a tryer, he doesn't have that effect, and he never will.
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I mean on the other hand, why do you not have garrincha/best in there if it's all about the eye test?
 
Tostao_80 said:
Cal and Red Ronaldo, do you really know what you are talking about? You are totally wrong. We dont deal with alternative facts here.

Google the Onze_dor awards and look at the years 86 and 87 and you will see that Diego himself won tge award in both years. In 85, he was behind the winner Platini. Also, Kempes won the award in 1978, is he European? Know what you are talking about.

Anyway, back to Cals rgument. Platini must be greater than Diego because he won more Onze, D'or awards, the most prestigious individual award in world football at the time.
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What are you talking about? Onze award? What is it? Never heard of it before. I don't think anyone cares even a player win it 10 times.
 
Tostao_80 said:
Cal and Red Ronaldo, do you really know what you are talking about? You are totally wrong. We dont deal with alternative facts here.

Google the Onze_dor awards and look at the years 86 and 87 and you will see that Diego himself won tge award in both years. In 85, he was behind the winner Platini. Also, Kempes won the award in 1978, is he European? Know what you are talking about.

Anyway, back to Cals rgument. Platini must be greater than Diego because he won more Onze, D'or awards, the most prestigious individual award in world football at the time.
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Onze D’or? Seriously you’re just going to use some random award no one has heard of as the basis of your argument? :rolleyes:
 
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