By goals, by assists, by impact, by everything. Messi doesn't have half the iconic CL knockout nights that Ronaldo has in his career.
And he didn't need to be playing in a better team for 95% of his career to do it.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
By goals, by assists, by impact, by everything. Messi doesn't have half the iconic CL knockout nights that Ronaldo has in his career.
And he didn't need to be playing in a better team for 95% of his career to do it.
Messi's best performances: His 4 goal destruction of Arsenal in 2010, his CL Clasico double at the Bernabeu in 2011, his MOTM performance in the CL final vs United in 2011, his 5 goal haul vs Leverkusen in 2012, 2 goal inspiring comeback vs Milan in 2013, His home and away decimation vs City in 2015, dominant 2nd leg vs Bayern at the Nou Camp in 2015.
Ronaldo's best performances: recording breaking double vs Bayern in 2014, hat-trick comeback vs Wolfsburg in 2016, Double and hat-trick vs Bayern in 2017, hat-trick vs Atletico in 2017, 2 goal haul in the final vs Juve in 2017, double vs Juve in 2018, hat-trick comeback vs Atletico in 2019.
So how is it not close? I'm even open to discussion for games of Ronaldo I may have missed. I only picked performances of a high standard.
Messi's CL performances up to 2015 dwarf Ronaldo's before then. Ronaldo's performances afterwards though dwarf Messi's.
But apparently it isn't close.
Are you a Manchester United fan?
Ronaldo vs Roma 2007, Ronaldo vs Arsenal 2009, Ronaldo vs Schalke 2014, Ronaldo vs Bayern 2014, Ronaldo vs Schalke 2015, Ronaldo vs Atletico 2015, Ronaldo vs Napoli 2017...
Could probably sneak in the 2008 final in there. Then you have big goals that were worth qualification like at Porto in 2009 with the Puskas winning goal, Lyon in 2008 or United in 2013... games like Lyon in 2011 where he completely dominated but went unnoticed and plenty of games where he changed the course of it via a big goal or moment that he didn't necessarily go on to dominate from start to finish. I don't rate Ronaldo completely destroying Schalke in 2014 that high for example and he could have easily finished that game with something like 4 goals and 4 assists. For me Messi scoring 5 vs Leverkusen is a lot less impressive than what he did vs Chelsea last year for example. It's all about the context of it.
I think when the circumstances are right for him Messi can dominate in a way Ronaldo can't. When the circumstances aren't right then it's a different story.
Last edited:
I don't buy the whole "Ronaldo is better in the big games" argument. Either way though, that's not the point. The point is who has played the game of football at the higher level, and for me that is Messi, comfortably. It's not even a discussion in my mind. His form from 2011-2013 is unparalleled.
That's probably true. Ronaldo from 2012-2014 wasn't far before the injury though and he didn't have the benefit of playing in the best team of all time during it
Yes I'm a Manchester United fan.
I didn't pick Ronaldo vs Roma in 2007, because that was a total team domination and Ronaldo was very good, but not great imo. Ronaldo's performance in the 08 final is generally underrated because of his penalty miss, but I don't think he was great. He had a good performance. Nothing more, nothing less. I'll give you the Puskas winning goal in Porto. I remember it like it was yesterday.
I don't think Ronaldo was great against Arsenal either. I counted Ronaldo vs Bayern. The rest I don't think are great performances.
Scoring 5 goals is impressive to me no matter what. I didn't think Messi was THAT great vs a rather stumbling Chelsea team.
He's scored more goals than Messi in knockouts, but in terms of great performances, it's pretty close between the two.
I don't see how you can say it isn't close UNLESS you're using goals only. I concede that. But plenty of games that you cited for Ronaldo aren't games you think of when you think of Ronaldo's best games in the Champions League.
I can appreciate that. However I do not believe Ronaldo would have performed as well as Messi did in those teams, nor do I believe a team could be constructed around him which would facilitate him to achieve that level.That's probably true. Ronaldo from 2012-2014 wasn't far before the injury though and he didn't have the benefit of playing in the best team of all time during it
Spot on.
Messi is by far the best player I have ever seen. I've never seen anything like it. I grew up idolising Maradona and Best but Messi is on a different planet.
So scoring a header for you is meh.. that settles it then. Messi > Ronaldo.
Why didn't Messi score the 'easier to score' penalties in the important finals which Argentina lost?
And have you never watched Ronaldo score a long range goal?
One thing is comparing Ronaldo with Messi and saying Messi is better another is putting Best on this level.
Hes just a glorified Gerd Muller. If you want to sit next to Diego and Pele, you need to show magic and otherwordly ability, on a regular basis. Sorry, but scoring headers and penalties wont get you there. Thats ultimately what separates the two. Cristiano is and will be regarded as one of the best 10 (maybe 5) players ever, Leo amongst the top 3 (or 1 in many people's eyes)
On an individual level, how exactly has Ronaldo outperformed Messi by a long way internationally? Ronaldo only has three knockout stage goals in eight international tournaments, while Messi has done far more over the last three world cups and his individual displays at the past few Copa Americas are better than what Ronaldo has done at the Euros.
Messi is GOAT in La Liga.
If you believe that dribbling and beating 5 players and doing things which make you enchanted is the only criteria for being the best then there's no point discussing. Just because YOU think that headers and penalties (apparently messi fans think cr7 is only good at those whereas neglecting the fact that messi is one of the worst 'top' players in those departments) aren't great to watch or more easier to score doesn't change the reality.
I don't understand where that magic of Messi disappears when he plays for his country or suddenly why he looks so ordinary lately(the WC) when he comes out of his comfort zone in Barcelona. But let that not make you think that he ain't the best.
How many trophies did Messi's team ended up with?
Has anyway called this a tie yet? It's clearly a very close call, even stats say it, to be fair though I think Ronaldo should have won on the Ballon d'Or just gone as Modric winning it was ridiculous, but overall they're on par with each other, two completely different styles (hence the crazy debate) but football is all about different styles.
Probably because you didn't bother watching. Havn't seen even one game in which Messi looks ordinary. You always see he's the best player on the pitch by a landslide, even if they lose.
So because Ronaldo... did a good job encouraging his team from the sideline during the final in which Eder scored a goal and they won the final against the future World champions, he's had a better international career?
Am I the only one who thinks comparing a 3-0 comeback vs one of the most defensively sound teams of the decade to a 1-4 win vs Betis is just plain wrong?
After all this shit he has posted, he should do the decent thing and disappear from this thread forever.
Remember when...
Despite that it isn't. The quote argument can be used to prove anything you want (like Scholes being better than Xavi, Pirlo or Zidane). You can find similar quotes for Ronaldo, it means feck all.
Also, he said only last year that Madrid should sell Ronaldo, cause Bale is already better which should disqualify him from ever taking part in this debate. It is right there with the worst opinions of all time.
So, how do Jose Mourinho and Carlo Ancelotti stack up against Jordi Roura and Tata Martino? Thing is, the only manager Ronaldo had up until this season that doesn't have a Champions League next to his name is Manuel Pellegrini, and that was only for one season. In fact, Benitez is the only one among the CL winners who managed to win the CL just once, while Ronaldo's other managers have won it at least twice. Also, Zidane is the only one among them who hadn't won the CL before coaching Ronaldo. Messi has never had a coach who won the Champions League without him, and this includes the best one he's ever had. Surely you can appreciate the difference between being coached by a Champions League winner and someone who has not even coached a big club, let alone achieved success at the highest level. The recurring theme among Messi's coaches is that they have not been able to achieve success outside of Barcelona, either before or after coaching Messi. Guardiola is the only exception here. It's clear why you're trying to dismiss proven managers, though, and it's an example of what @Zehner told you about your emotions getting the better of you. You're trying to argue an insane point, minimizing the influence a manager has on a team and dismissing the vast difference in quality of the coaches the two had had.
Regarding the influence Messi and Ronaldo have on hiring managers, this is also an indication of the state you're in. You're completely incapable of arguing reasonable points anymore. You counter the fact Messi has not had the benefit of being coached by proven world class managers by suggesting he has "influence" on who the manager is. This is made to put blame on Messi for the factors that impede his chances of winning trophies (mainly the Champions League). But to be able to blame Messi even for board decisions, you also have to give him more importance, suggesting he essentially chooses the manager (and basically coaches the team then, I guess). But you can't help but put Ronaldo on the same level so you suggest they both have influence, while in the sentence before that you argued the disadvantage of having been coached by Jose Mourinho as opposed to Pep Guardiola. So Ronaldo and Messi both have influence on who the manager is, but Messi is the only one who gets blamed for it while somehow it's actually a disadvantage for Ronaldo to be coached by better managers. How many goals did Ronaldo score under Mourinho? It's been argued here time and again that Mourinho's Madrid was not defensive, they scored a record number of goals. So was scoring a lot of goals good for Ronaldo or not? Did Ronaldo influence the hiring of his managers, or is Messi the only one with that power? Is it better to be coached by Ancelotti or Martino? If Ronaldo influences the choice of manager, why did he choose Mourinho and Benitez then?
I think it's a misconception that players choose managers and signings. Maybe they're consulted now and then, I guess someone in the club asks them for their preferences or discusses options with them, but I don't think they give names and I don't think they have a lot of influence. I mean, Messi has clashed with our board on several occasions, it's not like he runs the club. The same was said about Sampaoli's Argentina before the World Cup, that Messi picked that team and decided who the coach would be. There was an article about a clash between Messi and Sampaoli when the players had a meeting with the manager after some bad results, and Messi was quoted as saying that Sampaoli had asked him for names several times and that he had never given him any. I think the idea that big players run teams and decide managers and signings is false. They don't have that kind of influence, as both clubs and national teams have presidents, vice presidents and a long line of people who take part in decision making. It's not as simple as deferring to the will of one person, it just doesn't work like that.
About your last line, yes, I can definitely imagine the outcry. There's outcry even now when Ronaldo played in front of a supposedly average Madrid midfield and now plays in an above-average Juventus side. Oh yes, I can easily imagine the outcry.
Excellent post, you've backed it up with tons of sources.
You won't get a reply, though. This is because, as you said, there is no reply.
In UCL it really isn't close, Ronaldo by far has been the better player. You can reverse it for the league, when Messi was miles better.
Genuine question to everyone :
Imagine if Ronaldo plays for Argentina and Messi Plays for portugal in their career ....
Do you think Ronaldo wins World Cup by now and also couple of Copa ?
Imagine if Ronaldo plays for Argentina and Messi Plays for portugal in their career ....
Do you think Ronaldo wins World Cup by now and also couple of Copa ?
I believe that the argument is that Ronaldo played with Portugal, while Messi for Argentina. Now, let's not kid ourselves, Argentina had infinitely better players than Portugal. Blame must be put to managers (though hardly Portugal was blessed with great managers), but then when Messi sabotages managers (or Argentina chooses as managers coaches that Messi likes) and vetoes players like Icardi, while not making an attempt to adjust his game to his teammates, then a lot of blame must be put in his shoulders too. Add to that, he missed penalties in finals which they lost.
I don't think that either of them had great international tournaments (despite that Ronaldo won one and Messi won the best player in another), but I would say that Ronaldo had a marginally better international career. Both have underperformed though, especially Messi who should have won a World Cup and a couple of Copas at least.
Copa's definitely.
Not necessarily disagreeing with any of that but I hate how much weight people put on it. If Higuain takes his chances in the WC final in '14 they should've/could've won that game, and Messi would be a WC winner. Small margins and you could argue that it's the sign of a true champion to push his team over the line in such situations, but it's one game... It does change the outlook of his career but you're also dependant on your teammates in such games.
Some people judge players on stuff like team trophies, awards given out for being the best player of the team that won the biggest title that season, the number of countries they've played in, goal stats and so forth. To each their own I guess but I prefer watching them play. Basically a qualitative and contextual analysis of how good they are. That may be a flmethodology which is vulnerable to subjectivity but IMO it is the best we have since football is far to complex of a game to be measured quantitatively.
And based on that, Messi would probably even be my number one player I've regularly seen throughout his best years even if he hadn't won a single trophy.
And based on that, Messi would probably even be my number one player I've regularly seen throughout his best years even if he hadn't won a single trophy.
It's close but i say Messi. When you see Messi touching ball and Ronaldo touching ball, i can't say Ronaldo is more talented or better footballer. Messi have touch like Maradona had. So Messi for me. But Cristiano is one of the best ever also.
Yeah because that's what he really did in that tournament.
Messi fanboys are definitely more annoying. They talk as if he is Jesus himself. Ronaldo fanboys just shout Sii over and over. I think Messi is better before anyone starts with me.
Ronaldo scored that goal in the final, Eder was a tool in his hands.
"shits the bed", "mentally weak", "not a big game player"...
Ronaldo fans are always so selective in their arguments too. Talk about missing penalties in big games but fail to mention that Ronaldo did that too in the CL final. Or they talk about international failures when they'd be the first ones to slaughter Messi if he went out of a World Cup group containing Ghana and the USA...
That is blasphemy. How dare you speak about Lord Eder in this way?!
Not disagreeing with your post, but which competitions are included in this graphic? Supercup, Club WC,...? Listing them seperatly would be more conclusive.
"shits the bed", "mentally weak", "not a big game player"...
Ronaldo fans are always so selective in their arguments too. Talk about missing penalties in big games but fail to mention that Ronaldo did that too in the CL final. Or they talk about international failures when they'd be the first ones to slaughter Messi if he went out of a World Cup group containing Ghana and the USA...
Are all Ronaldo vs. Messi threads like this across the internet?
By rights, this should be one of the best threads on the caf, not a thread to avoid. It's a real shame, almost like two concurrent threads are needed.
By rights, this should be one of the best threads on the caf, not a thread to avoid. It's a real shame, almost like two concurrent threads are needed.
What is this? Are those supposed to be great performances?
Ronaldo vs messi is like saying Britney Spears is better than the Rolling Stones because she had more number one singles. I mean, it’s a measure but it’s missing the point somewhat. When you are judging the greatest of all time, you also get marks for artistic impression. I admire Ronaldo - I would agree he might be the greatest goal scorer of all time, but the greatest player. It’s Messi all the way.
- Status