Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Peyroteo]

You've become a parody of yourself. Fecking hell.

Am I wrong?

I was saying the same things when Ronaldo was scoring 5 goals in Madrid 8-0 wins vs Espanyol btw. And he did those sorts of things all the time, stat-padded to an obsessive point to be able to get recognition from it.

 

[RobinLFC]

Am I wrong?

No you're completely right. Let's also disregard everything Ronaldo has done at Juve domestically since they win the Serie A by default with or without him. Wouldn't matter if he proves his genius game after game and puts up insane stats, cause almost all games are meaningless.

 

[SCP]

Messi has been comfortably the best player this season. With stats, no stats, meaningless games, important games.

Believing on vanity fair individual awards given to the player who wins the Champions League or the World Cup is just that. Vanity.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Am I wrong?

I was saying the same things when Ronaldo was scoring 5 goals in Madrid 8-0 wins vs Espanyol btw. And he did those sorts of things all the time, stat-padded to an obsessive point to be able to get recognition from it.

Who do you think is having a better season; Messi or Ronaldo?

 

[GifLord]

Do you watched Pele in the 60s when he was young? I'm asking because majority only saw some videos in the world cup of 1970 where despite being decisive he was a 30 years old in decandence who was bench some months before the world cup. Be 30 years old in 1970 would be like a player at age of 35 today.

I dont know between Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona who is the best player ever. But one thing i'm sure now, i was waiting Messi to do SOMETHING relevant with Argetina so i could say he is the best. But he didn't and is not gonna do. He is only special when in his comfort zone.

There is no such a thing as a G.O.A.T who can't win nothing with his national team, being argentinian with one of their best generations ever. At least someone able to decide important games in the wc.

Lets be honest here, if your national team will play the final of the world cup tomorrow and you can pick ONE PLAYER in the world everybody would pick Ronaldo.

 

[Peyroteo]

No you're completely right. Let's also disregard everything Ronaldo has done at Juve domestically since they win the Serie A by default with or without him. Wouldn't matter if he proves his genius game after game and puts up insane stats, cause almost all games are meaningless.

They don't win the league by default without Higuain as seen last season. But no, it clearly does not matter in the slightest how he plays for the rest of the season when the league is already won. It didn't matter to a point where he didn't even make the bench for today's match... he'll be playing the next matches purely to get match rythm and attempt to stat-pad his way to the top goalscorer award so he can get recognition for it.

To Juventus it could not matter any less.

Messi has been comfortably the best player this season. With stats, no stats, meaningless games, important games.

Believing on vanity fair individual awards given to the player who wins the Champions League or the World Cup is just that. Vanity.

Winning the biggest trophies in the sport is vanity now. Luck and vanity.

 

[Peyroteo]

Who do you think is having a better season; Messi or Ronaldo?

Messi, although it's close after the Atletico game. Still 80% of the season to be played though.

 

[Semiarty]

 

[DaGOAT]

Who do you think is having a better season; Messi or Ronaldo?

Why is this even a question?

Messi easily.

In terms of stats, i.e. goals and assists he is better than any player, including Ronaldo.

In terms of scoring, assisting AND playmaking he is having a lot more impact than Ronaldo. Ronaldo is not even close to matching the overall performance of Messi this season.

 

[gibers]

This is what usually happens every season. Messi is spectacular in the league but come the qf he disappears and then Ronaldo dominates the CL. Like clockwork.

 

[Raoul]

Some good points made here. Didn't know about the inflated goal numbers bit.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Arbitrarily? What's arbitrary about it? The importance of a match is pretty self-evident.

If Messi goes on to play like this every league match, Barcelona wins the league. If he goes on to have 5/10 performances in every league game remaining, Barcelona win the league. If Valverde decides to rest him for the rest of the season in the league I won't rate him any lower than if he scores 5 every game.

That's not true. Barcelona lose against Betis and it's 7 point gap. Same as Liverpool let slip this year (when they could have extended it to 10). It's convenient to make it out as if the league is already won, but it's not.

And performances like these from Messi are why Barcelona enjoy a 10 point lead. So to brush off competitive league matches as meaningless is, as I said before, disingenuous at best.

 

[Fridge chutney]

This is what usually happens every season. Messi is spectacular in the league but come the qf he disappears and then Ronaldo dominates the CL. Like clockwork.

And I hope the same happens this year because of a sterling performance from Shaw!

 

[SportingCP96]

Messi as of right now is having a better season. Not in question. New team, League, Tactics, players, coach. I already knew that would be the case.

But Jesus everyone having a hard on for a hat trick against fecking Betis when Barca are already practically confirmed as champions as if it is even close to a hat trick against Atletico when they were down 2-0. Come on now people. Its Betis. No one bar Atletico defends in la Liga it was the same case when Ronaldo was there. I wanna see this magical Messi when his team needs him more and back is against the wall.

Nonetheless if the season ended today Messi would have had a better season then Ronaldo I agree.

 

[SCP]

They don't win the league by default as seen last season. But no, it clearly does not matter in the slightest how he plays for the rest of the season when the league is won. It didn't matter to a point where he didn't even make the bench for today's match...



Winning the biggest trophies in the sport is vanity now. Luck and vanity.

So you’re challenging my logic? Ok. Care to explain why a player who is having by large distance the best season shouldn’t win a individual award because the current logic is players who win World Cups or Champions League are the ones who win it?

Individual awards should be given to the best individual player, not to the best player of a team who wins a few knockout games on a short space of time dismissing everything done on the rest of the season.

And if you don’t like my explanation you’re entitled to it. I have a strong opinion on this, for me this type of awards only promote vanity, egos and a lot of ammunition for the media and to promote the commercial interests of the multinational brands like Nike or Adidas.

That and the interests of the superagents and their marketeers.

So just because the logic is to give it to who won a certain final I will not say a player who’s performing better than the others isn’t better just because he lost a game.

Simple.

 

[Peyroteo]

That's not true. Barcelona lose against Betis and it's 7 point gap. Same as Liverpool let slip this year (when they could have extended it to 10). It's convenient to make it out as if the league is already won, but it's not.

They play Atletico at home and both them and Madrid have more than given up on it ages ago, both teams will lose plenty of points. They'd have to lose 6 of 10 remaining games to throw the title away which would never happen. Plenty of Barcelona fans calling for full squad rotation today.

Of course it could always happen so it's not less important than if they'd have actually won it already.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

It wasn't the fact he scored three goals, it was the quality of them (and Suarez's too). It must be really depressing watching those goals and your first reaction being a dismissive one. Just enjoy it.

 

[Skorenzy]

This is what usually happens every season. Messi is spectacular in the league but come the qf he disappears and then Ronaldo dominates the CL. Like clockwork.

They were playing football prior to 2016 too, you know...

 

[sullydnl]

Every time I see this thread bumped I wonder which one of them has done something ridiculously amazing to spark off the bickering again.

Today it's Messi. Good stuff.

 

[wub1234]

Why do you have to write 100 lines on every single comment? I can't waste three hours replying to everything every time you reply to me. There are millions of neutral people who think Ronaldo is the better player, read the past three pages here and you'll find some.

You can't reply! You have no reply!

If you did have a reply then you'd be able to show me all of the pundits, journalists, players and ex-players who believe that Ronaldo is the best player ever, or in the argument, as I have with Messi. Not idiots on an Internet forum!

You can't show me this because they don't exist.

If you stand by every word that you said in that quote, and genuinely believe that Messi is some sort of tactical liability, then you're an idiot.

What kind of team, manager, supporter, or anyone who even understands anything about football, wouldn't want someone in their team who has scored 39 in 37 this season from an increasingly deeper role, most of those goals aren't tap-ins, he scores them from all over, he has, I think, 22 assists, he is the best passer in the world... but according to you teams don't want players like Messi!

You really said that. You really said that teams don't want players like Messi, they want more versatile players!

However, if you want to believe Ronaldo is better, that’s fine. That’s your right.

And I can’t literally prove that Messi is better than Ronaldo.

I find it farcical that anyone could possibly believe that anyone other than Messi is the best footballer in the world, but there you go, people believe all kinds of crazy things.

However, the weight of opinion is now clearly behind Messi, and this is not going to change because Messi continues to play out of his skin, he has been unbelievable this season, even better than last season, whereas Ronaldo has been ordinary by comparison. Not compared to an ordinary player. But compared to Messi, he has been absolutely nowhere near over the last 12 months or so. Not even remotely close.

Outside of this crazy forum, the overwhelming weight of public opinion now recognises this. It really is only a few sad Ronaldo fans on forums and social media who cannot face reality.

I understand why because you really like Ronaldo. But when all is done and dusted, he won’t be ranked in the same bracket as Messi, who will probably go down as the best player ever, and certainly one of the best three players ever.

Ronaldo will not, I can assure you.

 

[Daysleeper]

This is what usually happens every season. Messi is spectacular in the league but come the qf he disappears and then Ronaldo dominates the CL. Like clockwork.

Where was this in 2015, 2011? Ronaldo only dominated knockout rounds 2014 onward which is amazing obviously but to act like Messi has been a CL choker for most of his career is insanely stupid.

 

[Peyroteo]

So you’re challenging my logic? Ok. Care to explain why a player who is having by large distance the best season shouldn’t win a individual award because the current logic is players who win World Cups or Champions League are the ones who win it?

Individual awards should be given to the best individual player, not to the best player of a team who wins a few knockout games on a short space of time dismissing everything done on the rest of the season.

And if you don’t like my explanation you’re entitled to it. I have a strong opinion on this, for me this type of awards only promote vanity, egos and a lot of ammunition for the media and to promote the commercial interests of the multinational brands like Nike or Adidas.

That's why Modric won, right?

The Champions League and the World Cup are the biggest competitions and the biggest games happen there. The best player in the most important games should win it, not the one who consistently plays the best throughout the season since football is structured in a way that does not reward consistency.

Obviously no player should win it because they won a competition, they win becuase of their importance towards it. Actual winning should be taken into account when making that decision though, especially when the team is at a high standard. Maradona wouldn't be considered anywhere near as good as he is if Argentina hadn't come close to winning the World Cup in 1986 for example.

League titles are becoming less and less important. A Madrid or Juventus fan barely cares about the difference between 33 or 34 league titles. The more they've won the competition the more casual it feels.

 

[Svartzonker]

Why do you have to write 100 lines on every single comment? I can't waste three hours replying to everything every time you reply to me.

”God damn why do write long answers to me?”. This is a forum. The meaning of a forum is to discuss and debate with other people.

Did you know that you don’t have to write anything on this forum. It’s completely up to you buddy.

Or lets just keep the conversation like this?

”Messi goat”
”Nah, Ronaldo goat”.

No offence.

 

[gibers]

Where was this in 2015, 2011? Ronaldo only dominated knockout rounds 2014 onward which is amazing obviously but to act like Messi has been a CL choker for most of his career is insanely stupid.

Messi isn't a Cl choker. Ronaldo has just made it look easier than it is tbh. Messi's Cl performances is only second to Ronaldo.

 

[Pocho]

All of these arguments about teams, players and tactics are largely irrelevant, as it's just quite obvious to anyone remotely objective that Messi is the better player. It was obvious 2-3 years ago, but now it's blindingly obvious, as Ronaldo declines physically, whereas Messi is not and will not be reliant on physical superiority, as he never has been, always instead winning games with his technical superiority.

This is why Messi is continually touted as being the best player ever, and is quite clearly in this argument, with only Pele and Maradona in the same ballpark. Having seen all three play, I firmly believe Messi is significantly better than both of them, has far more to his game, and has certainly been considerably more consistent than Maradona. However, at worst he is in the top three players of all-time.

That's why there are countless experts, former players, pundits and journalist queuing up to proclaim this. For example:

Craig Bellamy - Messi is the Best Player of All-time:



Lionel Messi proves he is the greatest player ever, no matter what Pele says:

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/fo...player-ever-no-matter-what-pele-says-1.800706

The 'Greatest Lionel Messi Compilation Ever' Proves He Is The Most Complete Player In History

http://www.sportbible.com/football/...lation-of-all-time-proves-hes-the-co-20190317

Is Lionel Messi the Greatest Player of All-Time - The Spectator:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/is-lionel-messi-the-greatest-footballer-of-all-time/

Lionel Messi: 10 reasons why he's the world's greatest player

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...asons-why-hes-the-worlds-greatest-player.html

The greatest footballer we have seen - our experts' verdicts (four pick Messi, none pick Ronaldo):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...baller-we-have-seen-our-experts-verdicts.html

Messi is the greatest of all time, says Chelsea's Hazard:

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/mes...ys-chelseas-hazard/1fs6ul27ksg631m5dxbgxzcp3t

5 Reasons why Lionel Messi is the Greatest Of All Time:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/lionel-messi-greatest-of-all-time-5-reasons

442 Magazine Listed Messi 2nd Greatest of All-Time Behind Only Maradona:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-100-greatest-footballers-ever-no2-lionel-messi

Lionel Messi — The Best Ever?:

https://medium.com/sports-kitchen/lionel-messi-the-best-ever-bbad227f2bd5

Let’s just all accept that Lionel Messi is the best footballer ever:

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/317519/lionel-messi-barcelona-best-player-ever/

Despite the superlatives, hype and awards, Lionel Messi is underrated:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/nov/12/lionel-messi-beatles-best-player-barcelona

Ludicrous Lionel Messi is averaging his best-ever goals-and-assists ratio at the age of 31… with the Barcelona superstar making a mockery of finishing fifth for the Ballon d'Or:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...si-averaging-best-goals-assists-ratio-31.html

Lionel Messi praised by Lyon boss Bruno Genesio after Barcelona thrashing - Genesio: "He's a genius and can do things that nobody else can. Sometimes he is just unstoppable."

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-boss-bruno-genesio-after-barcelona-thrashing

'Messi Is The Best Player To Ever Wear Football Boots':

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...est-player-to-ever-wear-football-boots/502049

Lionel Messi is playing a different game to everyone else:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...a-s-magician-extends-their-lead-a4019126.html

Lionel Messi: Why Barcelona star is greatest ever player - Balague:

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/921409/Lionel-Messi-Barcelona-best-ever-Guillem-Balague

'He is the most complete player in history' - Frank Lampard raves about Lionel Messi:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/complete-player-history-frank-lampard-raves-lionel-messi-153971

I could go on...that's just a simple Google search, and I just picked out the first articles that came up.

By contrast, I can find barely anyone suggesting that Ronaldo is the greatest player ever. I found this from earlier this season:

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...cristiano-ronaldo-is-the-greatest-ever/504706

And I did find a second prominent figure suggesting that Ronaldo is the greatest player ever:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-best-player-in-history-after-ballon-dor-win

But his name was Cristiano Ronaldo!

Simple reason for this is that Messi is quite evidently superior technically, and quite demonstrably does more on the field of play. The only conceivable area where Ronaldo is better is heading, because he's much taller than Messi, and obviously Messi doesn't play as a forward either, so gets few heading opportunities. He's not even a better goalscorer than Messi, as Messi is outscoring him easily this season, and is now only 19 goals behind his all-time total, having played 130 less games.

And this is despite the fact that Messi hasn't played as a forward for some years. Whereas Ronaldo's entire game is predicated on him scoring goals, and if he doesn't score then his contribution is going to be extremely minimal in comparison to Messi.

But anyone just watching the two of them will almost inevitably conclude that Messi is the superior player, as I've discussed numerous times in this thread being the far better passer, dribbler, free-kick taker, and technical player, while also now scoring more goals than Ronaldo, while playing as a number 10. Messi has now for two consecutive seasons topped European football statistics in every conceivable category. He has been better than the best midfield players at passing (de Bruyne, Modric, etc), better than the best dribblers (Hazard, Neymar, etc), made more assists than the top players in this category (Ozil, Mbappe, Sancho, Neymar features again here), comfortably outscored all of the top forwards (Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Aguero, Kane, etc), and scored more free-kicks than any other player.

What Ronaldo has done has been unbelievably good, but it's within the parameters of what we've seen before, and will see again. He is an extremely effective forward. But what Messi has done and does on the field of play is phenomenal, it's unprecedented, it hasn't happened before, and probably won't happen ever again. That's why Messi is now widely recognised to be, at the very least, in the top three players ever, while Ronaldo is not considered in this ballpark.

Ronaldo was never in the same ballpark as Messi as a footballer, but today the gulf is obvious. Everyone remotely objective already knows this to be the case. Deep down, I think even Ronaldo knows it's the case.

Great great post!

 

[Zehner]

So you’re challenging my logic? Ok. Care to explain why a player who is having by large distance the best season shouldn’t win a individual award because the current logic is players who win World Cups or Champions League are the ones who win it?

Individual awards should be given to the best individual player, not to the best player of a team who wins a few knockout games on a short space of time dismissing everything done on the rest of the season.

And if you don’t like my explanation you’re entitled to it. I have a strong opinion on this, for me this type of awards only promote vanity, egos and a lot of ammunition for the media and to promote the commercial interests of the multinational brands like Nike or Adidas.

That and the interests of the superagents and their marketeers.

So just because the logic is to give it to who won a certain final I will not say a player who’s performing better than the others isn’t better just because he lost a game.

Simple.

Most spot on post I read for a fair while.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Messi isn't a Cl choker. Ronaldo has just made it look easier than it is tbh. Messi's Cl performances is only second to Ronaldo.

You can make the argument Messi's CL performances are better than Ronaldo's through the course of their careers.

Ronaldo's best performances are more recent so it skews perception a bit.

 

[Peyroteo]

”God damn why do write long answers to me?”. This is a forum. The meaning of a forum is to discuss and debate with other people.

Did you know that you don’t have to write anything on this forum. It’s completely up to you buddy.

Or lets just keep the conversation like this?

”Messi goat”
”Nah, Ronaldo goat”.

No offence.

It was a genuine question. Every post he makes has 100 lines or more, it's impossible to read everything or discuss anything without spending hours on it with 10 different discussion points at a time.

Keeping it to the point would be better.

 

[Zehner]

I mean, why should we count games that result in major trophies as meaningful? Most of what Messi has done in his career has been meaningless.

He's a highlight-reel YouTube merchant. Meaningless.

Am I doing this right?

Guess I was wrong. League games aren't the new friendlies, they are the new charity games. Meaningless, we should just get rid of these competitions.

 

[Member 109952]

This thread is a yo-yo, Messi has a good game, all the Messi lovers come out, Ronaldo has a good game, ditto with Ronaldo lovers.

For me personally Messi is a better technical player, and it's more pronounced now that Ronaldo's physically declined and can't really dribble any more. However it's a fact that in the biggest stage over the last 3-4 years Messi has been missing, while Ronaldo has consistently shown up with a plethora of goals and big performances. That, combined with his younger, dynamic self that we saw at United and that's now often overlooked in favour of the current Ronaldo, imo makes it a lot more even between them. Messi's capable of more 'pure' magic with the ball and is the better player, but Ronaldo at United (especially circa 2005-2008, didn't watch too much early Madrid) and his performances over the last 4 years put him right up there.

I think since like 06/07 Ronaldo's not been in the CL semis like once in his career.. which is crazy, compared to Messi who's missed the last 3 CL semis in a row out. Of course all could change this year where I see Barca as the favourites in the CL (but you could've said that for the last 3 years too).

 

[Peyroteo]

Where was this in 2015, 2011? Ronaldo only dominated knockout rounds 2014 onward which is amazing obviously but to act like Messi has been a CL choker for most of his career is insanely stupid.

He had 34 goals in the knockouts by 2014, decided plenty of ties by then. You can check it year by year, performance by performance.

Messi is not a choker, he performs regularly enough when the stakes are highest. Just not as often as Ronaldo. No need to put them in extremes

 

[Peyroteo]

You can make the argument Messi's CL performances are better than Ronaldo's through the course of their careers.

No, you absolutely can't. It's not even remotely close anymore.

Ronaldo's outperformed Messi both in the Champions League and internationally throughout the course of his career, the biggest stages in the game by a long way.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

It was a genuine question. Every post he makes has 100 lines or more, it's impossible to read everything or discuss anything without spending hours on it with 10 different discussion points at a time.

Keeping it to the point would be better.

Allow me to condense his post.

How do you justify or argue that Messi has been regularly spoken about by managers, ex-pros and journalists as the best player ever yet Ronaldo seldom does? Why is the call for Ronaldo being the best of all time dwarfed by Messi by a considerable margin? If this isn't the case then provide proof.

 

[Zehner]

No, you absolutely can't. It's not even remotely close anymore.

Ronaldo's outperformed Messi both in the Champions League and internationally throughout the course of his career, the biggest stages in the game by a long way.

By goals maybe, not by actual impact. I've yet to see a Ronaldo knockout performance as good as some of Messi's best ones.

 

[SCP]

That's why Modric won, right?

The Champions League and the World Cup are the biggest competitions and the biggest games happen there. The best player in the most important games should win it, not the one who consistently plays the best throughout the season since football is structured in a way that does not reward consistency.

Obviously no player should win it because they won a competition, they win becuase of their importance towards it. Actual winning should be taken into account when making that decision though, especially when the team is at a high standard. Maradona wouldn't be considered anywhere near as good as he is if Argentina hadn't come close to winning the World Cup in 1986 for example.

League titles are becoming less and less important. A Madrid or Juventus fan barely cares about the difference between 33 or 34 league titles. The more they've won the competition the more casual it feels.

Maradona won 2 times Série A with Napoli at a time when it was maybe harder to win it than the old European Cup, but you’re right without that World Cup he wouldn’t have been elevated to where he is.

Don’t get me wrong you know I like Ronaldo, we will never have a player similar to him here, but he had the luck or bad luck to play in the same era as Messi.

There’s nothing wrong with that and by the way I could easily dismiss previous posts where is stated outside goals he barely contributes to his team but I won’t bother refuting that.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No, you absolutely can't. It's not even remotely close anymore.

Ronaldo's outperformed Messi both in the Champions League and internationally throughout the course of his career, the biggest stages in the game by a long way.

You easily can.

And stop with the hyperbole please. If you count them out, the number between iconic performances from the two in knock-outs is probably very similar and Messi has hit heights Ronaldo hasn't imo.

 

[SCP]

Most spot on post I read for a fair while.

Thanks. Took almost 3 years to express this. No confusion with not liking Ronaldo but I don’t have to hate the other.

 

[MS4]

Damn. The game today showed why it's not even close.

I was hyped when i heard Ronaldo scored a brilliant hattrick this week. I was excited to see the highlights. First a brilliant cross and 1 Header hm meh..next goal.. another header but well hit, kudos to ronaldo..3rd goal a penalty. I was a bit disappointed.
Today Messi. 100% freekick, great run and well hit with the outside of his foot and an astonishing longrange goal...a chip, curl whatever..damn nice.

 

[Peyroteo]

Allow me to condense his post.

How do you justify or argue that Messi has been regularly spoken about by managers, ex-pros and journalists as the best player ever yet Ronaldo seldom does? Why is the call for Ronaldo being the best of all time dwarfed by Messi by a considerable margin? If this isn't the case then provide proof.

How do I provide proof of that? How many examples do you need to be proof of something like that? Thousands? It's impossible.

There are a multitude of reasons as to why people hold the opinions they do, not one, two or three. I'd summarize it as:

Messi is the more talented player. When talking about an otherwise very talented player, lots of people ignore the intangibles of the game and focus on talent alone. Hence the oxymoron seen in this thread title for example - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/good-or-great-players-who-were-are-really-bad-at-football.445882/

There are two names engraved into every player and fans' head when talking about the best of all time. Pele and Maradona. Ronaldo doesn't fit the mold.

His personality doesn't help him either. Look into how many people love diminuishing the achivements of Ramos, Griezmann or Neymar... Ronaldo with a much higher profile gets a lot more of it. The people in forums or who would generally have these sorts of arguments online, are the kind of people who would always side with Messi rather than Ronaldo personality wise.

Lastly, I believe Messi was the better player when the rivalry was at its highest and they were arguably in their peak. So people just believed in it rightly then but since it's a hot topic they refuse to change their minds to a point where anything that happens next becomes irrelevant to them.

 

[Peyroteo]

And stop with the hyperbole please. If you count them out, the number between iconic performances from the two in knock-outs is probably very similar and Messi has hit heights Ronaldo hasn't imo.

It's not even close. That's no hyperbole. Ronaldo's career in the Champions League knockouts after turning 30 almost matches up with Messi's entire career there.