Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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  • Ronaldo

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All of these arguments about teams, players and tactics are largely irrelevant, as it's just quite obvious to anyone remotely objective that Messi is the better player. It was obvious 2-3 years ago, but now it's blindingly obvious, as Ronaldo declines physically, whereas Messi is not and will not be reliant on physical superiority, as he never has been, always instead winning games with his technical superiority.

This is why Messi is continually touted as being the best player ever, and is quite clearly in this argument, with only Pele and Maradona in the same ballpark. Having seen all three play, I firmly believe Messi is significantly better than both of them, has far more to his game, and has certainly been considerably more consistent than Maradona. However, at worst he is in the top three players of all-time.

That's why there are countless experts, former players, pundits and journalist queuing up to proclaim this. For example:

Craig Bellamy - Messi is the Best Player of All-time:



Lionel Messi proves he is the greatest player ever, no matter what Pele says:

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/fo...player-ever-no-matter-what-pele-says-1.800706

The 'Greatest Lionel Messi Compilation Ever' Proves He Is The Most Complete Player In History

http://www.sportbible.com/football/...lation-of-all-time-proves-hes-the-co-20190317

Is Lionel Messi the Greatest Player of All-Time - The Spectator:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/is-lionel-messi-the-greatest-footballer-of-all-time/

Lionel Messi: 10 reasons why he's the world's greatest player

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...asons-why-hes-the-worlds-greatest-player.html

The greatest footballer we have seen - our experts' verdicts (four pick Messi, none pick Ronaldo):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...baller-we-have-seen-our-experts-verdicts.html

Messi is the greatest of all time, says Chelsea's Hazard:

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/mes...ys-chelseas-hazard/1fs6ul27ksg631m5dxbgxzcp3t

5 Reasons why Lionel Messi is the Greatest Of All Time:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/lionel-messi-greatest-of-all-time-5-reasons

442 Magazine Listed Messi 2nd Greatest of All-Time Behind Only Maradona:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-100-greatest-footballers-ever-no2-lionel-messi

Lionel Messi — The Best Ever?:

https://medium.com/sports-kitchen/lionel-messi-the-best-ever-bbad227f2bd5

Let’s just all accept that Lionel Messi is the best footballer ever:

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/317519/lionel-messi-barcelona-best-player-ever/

Despite the superlatives, hype and awards, Lionel Messi is underrated:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/nov/12/lionel-messi-beatles-best-player-barcelona

Ludicrous Lionel Messi is averaging his best-ever goals-and-assists ratio at the age of 31… with the Barcelona superstar making a mockery of finishing fifth for the Ballon d'Or:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...si-averaging-best-goals-assists-ratio-31.html

Lionel Messi praised by Lyon boss Bruno Genesio after Barcelona thrashing - Genesio: "He's a genius and can do things that nobody else can. Sometimes he is just unstoppable."

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-boss-bruno-genesio-after-barcelona-thrashing

'Messi Is The Best Player To Ever Wear Football Boots':

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...est-player-to-ever-wear-football-boots/502049

Lionel Messi is playing a different game to everyone else:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...a-s-magician-extends-their-lead-a4019126.html

Lionel Messi: Why Barcelona star is greatest ever player - Balague:

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/921409/Lionel-Messi-Barcelona-best-ever-Guillem-Balague

'He is the most complete player in history' - Frank Lampard raves about Lionel Messi:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/complete-player-history-frank-lampard-raves-lionel-messi-153971

I could go on...that's just a simple Google search, and I just picked out the first articles that came up.

By contrast, I can find barely anyone suggesting that Ronaldo is the greatest player ever. I found this from earlier this season:

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...cristiano-ronaldo-is-the-greatest-ever/504706

And I did find a second prominent figure suggesting that Ronaldo is the greatest player ever:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-best-player-in-history-after-ballon-dor-win

But his name was Cristiano Ronaldo!

Simple reason for this is that Messi is quite evidently superior technically, and quite demonstrably does more on the field of play. The only conceivable area where Ronaldo is better is heading, because he's much taller than Messi, and obviously Messi doesn't play as a forward either, so gets few heading opportunities. He's not even a better goalscorer than Messi, as Messi is outscoring him easily this season, and is now only 19 goals behind his all-time total, having played 130 less games.

And this is despite the fact that Messi hasn't played as a forward for some years. Whereas Ronaldo's entire game is predicated on him scoring goals, and if he doesn't score then his contribution is going to be extremely minimal in comparison to Messi.

But anyone just watching the two of them will almost inevitably conclude that Messi is the superior player, as I've discussed numerous times in this thread being the far better passer, dribbler, free-kick taker, and technical player, while also now scoring more goals than Ronaldo, while playing as a number 10. Messi has now for two consecutive seasons topped European football statistics in every conceivable category. He has been better than the best midfield players at passing (de Bruyne, Modric, etc), better than the best dribblers (Hazard, Neymar, etc), made more assists than the top players in this category (Ozil, Mbappe, Sancho, Neymar features again here), comfortably outscored all of the top forwards (Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Aguero, Kane, etc), and scored more free-kicks than any other player.

What Ronaldo has done has been unbelievably good, but it's within the parameters of what we've seen before, and will see again. He is an extremely effective forward. But what Messi has done and does on the field of play is phenomenal, it's unprecedented, it hasn't happened before, and probably won't happen ever again. That's why Messi is now widely recognised to be, at the very least, in the top three players ever, while Ronaldo is not considered in this ballpark.

Ronaldo was never in the same ballpark as Messi as a footballer, but today the gulf is obvious. Everyone remotely objective already knows this to be the case. Deep down, I think even Ronaldo knows it's the case.
 
wub1234 said:
Everyone remotely objective already knows this to be the case.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Remember when...

wub1234 said:
If Real have any sense they will get rid of Ronaldo, not allow him to sign some ridiculous contract that completely overvalues him, and move heaven and earth to get Neymar. Then they would have the second best player in the world, behind Messi obviously.
Click to expand...

wub1234 said:
Bale would produce as good, or possibly better, performances and results than Ronaldo if he was selected regularly, as he has done so when Ronaldo was rested.
Click to expand...

wub1234 said:
If Bale was indulged to the degree that Ronaldo is, played every game, was allowed to take every free-kick, virtually every set-piece was aimed at him, he sulked every time someone else scored a goal or shot instead of passing to him, then I'm confident Bale would score as many as Ronaldo.

Except that Bale wouldn't do some of those things because he's a more mature human being.
Click to expand...

wub1234 said:
BTW don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that over his career as a whole Bale is as good as Ronaldo. As it stands now, he is at least as good as Ronaldo, probably better, and certainly younger and a better long-term prospect.
Click to expand...
 
Can't believe this even generates any debate. Pretty clear Messi is a better player. Then again I lived through the Pac v Mayweather stuff on boxing forums and that was always obvious who was best too. Shame these can't do a 1 on 1 to end any debate but there shouldn't need to be any really, Messi is a class apart. Ronaldo then a class apart from the rest.
 
Mick321 said:
Can't believe this even generates any debate. Pretty clear Messi is a better player. Then again I lived through the Pac v Mayweather stuff on boxing forums and that was always obvious who was best too. Shame these can't do a 1 on 1 to end any debate but there shouldn't need to be any really, Messi is a class apart. Ronaldo then a class apart from the rest.
Click to expand...
I think when the dust settles and both players have retired, they will be known as the 2 greatest players of their generation but Messi will be accepted as the greatest of the modern era (or at least of the post-Zidane era).
 
Goals like the one he just scored against Betis illustrate why people regard Messi as better.

It's beyond statistics.
 
Kinsella said:
Goals like the one he just scored against Betis are the reason why people regard Messi as better.

Things like that are beyond statistics.
Click to expand...

Should they though?

It's an unbelievable goal but it's a meaningless goal in a meaningless game. Most of the football world won't care or watch the game in the first place.

Good for his stats, good for his highlight reel... completely meaningless for Barcelona. This is what's happened year after year.
 
Peyroteo said:
Should they though?

It's an unbelievable goal but it's a meaningless goal in a meaningless game. Most of the football world won't care or watch the game in the first place.

Good for his stats, good for his highlight reel... completely meaningless for Barcelona. This is what's happened year after year.
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
Peyroteo said:
Should they though?

It's an unbelievable goal but it's a meaningless goal in a meaningless game. Most of the football world won't care or watch the game in the first place.

Good for his stats, good for his highlight reel... completely meaningless for Barcelona. This is what's happened year after year.
Click to expand...
Life is meaningless
 
Vastly better than anyone else this season - including Ronaldo.
39 goals and 21 assists in 37 matches this season.

I find it funny that some people think that he isn't the best player in the world.

Done it all season long. Really the last 10+ years.
 
Peyroteo said:
Should they though?

It's an unbelievable goal but it's a meaningless goal in a meaningless game. Most of the football world won't care or watch the game in the first place.

Good for his stats, good for his highlight reel... completely meaningless for Barcelona. This is what's happened year after year.
Click to expand...

Did you prefer watching football in teletext era?
 
Mick321 said:
Can't believe this even generates any debate. Pretty clear Messi is a better player. Then again I lived through the Pac v Mayweather stuff on boxing forums and that was always obvious who was best too. Shame these can't do a 1 on 1 to end any debate but there shouldn't need to be any really, Messi is a class apart. Ronaldo then a class apart from the rest.
Click to expand...

The only people who think Ronaldo is better are the fans of teams he’s played for.
 
Peyroteo said:
Am I wrong? It's obviously incredible to watch nonetheless, but it's completely irrelevant to his team. Same goes for the 100 goals Ronaldo scored in the same circumstances.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it's meaningless, it's not the most important game they'll ever play but when you still need points to officially confirm the title a game is never meaningless.
 
wub1234 said:
All of these arguments about teams, players and tactics are largely irrelevant, as it's just quite obvious to anyone remotely objective that Messi is the better player. It was obvious 2-3 years ago, but now it's blindingly obvious, as Ronaldo declines physically, whereas Messi is not and will not be reliant on physical superiority, as he never has been, always instead winning games with his technical superiority.

This is why Messi is continually touted as being the best player ever, and is quite clearly in this argument, with only Pele and Maradona in the same ballpark. Having seen all three play, I firmly believe Messi is significantly better than both of them, has far more to his game, and has certainly been considerably more consistent than Maradona. However, at worst he is in the top three players of all-time.

That's why there are countless experts, former players, pundits and journalist queuing up to proclaim this. For example:

Craig Bellamy - Messi is the Best Player of All-time:



Lionel Messi proves he is the greatest player ever, no matter what Pele says:

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/fo...player-ever-no-matter-what-pele-says-1.800706

The 'Greatest Lionel Messi Compilation Ever' Proves He Is The Most Complete Player In History

http://www.sportbible.com/football/...lation-of-all-time-proves-hes-the-co-20190317

Is Lionel Messi the Greatest Player of All-Time - The Spectator:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/is-lionel-messi-the-greatest-footballer-of-all-time/

Lionel Messi: 10 reasons why he's the world's greatest player

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...asons-why-hes-the-worlds-greatest-player.html

The greatest footballer we have seen - our experts' verdicts (four pick Messi, none pick Ronaldo):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...baller-we-have-seen-our-experts-verdicts.html

Messi is the greatest of all time, says Chelsea's Hazard:

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/mes...ys-chelseas-hazard/1fs6ul27ksg631m5dxbgxzcp3t

5 Reasons why Lionel Messi is the Greatest Of All Time:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/lionel-messi-greatest-of-all-time-5-reasons

442 Magazine Listed Messi 2nd Greatest of All-Time Behind Only Maradona:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-100-greatest-footballers-ever-no2-lionel-messi

Lionel Messi — The Best Ever?:

https://medium.com/sports-kitchen/lionel-messi-the-best-ever-bbad227f2bd5

Let’s just all accept that Lionel Messi is the best footballer ever:

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/317519/lionel-messi-barcelona-best-player-ever/

Despite the superlatives, hype and awards, Lionel Messi is underrated:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/nov/12/lionel-messi-beatles-best-player-barcelona

Ludicrous Lionel Messi is averaging his best-ever goals-and-assists ratio at the age of 31… with the Barcelona superstar making a mockery of finishing fifth for the Ballon d'Or:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...si-averaging-best-goals-assists-ratio-31.html

Lionel Messi praised by Lyon boss Bruno Genesio after Barcelona thrashing - Genesio: "He's a genius and can do things that nobody else can. Sometimes he is just unstoppable."

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-boss-bruno-genesio-after-barcelona-thrashing

'Messi Is The Best Player To Ever Wear Football Boots':

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...est-player-to-ever-wear-football-boots/502049

Lionel Messi is playing a different game to everyone else:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...a-s-magician-extends-their-lead-a4019126.html

Lionel Messi: Why Barcelona star is greatest ever player - Balague:

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/921409/Lionel-Messi-Barcelona-best-ever-Guillem-Balague

'He is the most complete player in history' - Frank Lampard raves about Lionel Messi:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/complete-player-history-frank-lampard-raves-lionel-messi-153971

I could go on...that's just a simple Google search, and I just picked out the first articles that came up.

By contrast, I can find barely anyone suggesting that Ronaldo is the greatest player ever. I found this from earlier this season:

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...cristiano-ronaldo-is-the-greatest-ever/504706

And I did find a second prominent figure suggesting that Ronaldo is the greatest player ever:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-best-player-in-history-after-ballon-dor-win

But his name was Cristiano Ronaldo!

Simple reason for this is that Messi is quite evidently superior technically, and quite demonstrably does more on the field of play. The only conceivable area where Ronaldo is better is heading, because he's much taller than Messi, and obviously Messi doesn't play as a forward either, so gets few heading opportunities. He's not even a better goalscorer than Messi, as Messi is outscoring him easily this season, and is now only 19 goals behind his all-time total, having played 130 less games.

And this is despite the fact that Messi hasn't played as a forward for some years. Whereas Ronaldo's entire game is predicated on him scoring goals, and if he doesn't score then his contribution is going to be extremely minimal in comparison to Messi.

But anyone just watching the two of them will almost inevitably conclude that Messi is the superior player, as I've discussed numerous times in this thread being the far better passer, dribbler, free-kick taker, and technical player, while also now scoring more goals than Ronaldo, while playing as a number 10. Messi has now for two consecutive seasons topped European football statistics in every conceivable category. He has been better than the best midfield players at passing (de Bruyne, Modric, etc), better than the best dribblers (Hazard, Neymar, etc), made more assists than the top players in this category (Ozil, Mbappe, Sancho, Neymar features again here), comfortably outscored all of the top forwards (Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Aguero, Kane, etc), and scored more free-kicks than any other player.

What Ronaldo has done has been unbelievably good, but it's within the parameters of what we've seen before, and will see again. He is an extremely effective forward. But what Messi has done and does on the field of play is phenomenal, it's unprecedented, it hasn't happened before, and probably won't happen ever again. That's why Messi is now widely recognised to be, at the very least, in the top three players ever, while Ronaldo is not considered in this ballpark.

Ronaldo was never in the same ballpark as Messi as a footballer, but today the gulf is obvious. Everyone remotely objective already knows this to be the case. Deep down, I think even Ronaldo knows it's the case.
Click to expand...

Do you watched Pele in the 60s when he was young? I'm asking because majority only saw some videos in the world cup of 1970 where despite being decisive he was a 30 years old in decandence who was bench some months before the world cup. Be 30 years old in 1970 would be like a player at age of 35 today.

I dont know between Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona who is the best player ever. But one thing i'm sure now, i was waiting Messi to do SOMETHING relevant with Argetina so i could say he is the best. But he didn't and is not gonna do. He is only special when in his comfort zone.

There is no such a thing as a G.O.A.T who can't win nothing with his national team, being argentinian with one of their best generations ever. At least someone able to decide important games in the wc.

Lets be honest here, if your national team will play the final of the world cup tomorrow and you can pick ONE PLAYER in the world everybody would pick Ronaldo.
 
This is what you're arguing against. League games are now irrelevant. The total number of goals scored/assisted is irrelevant. CL group games are irrelevant. The only games which now count are the handful of CL knockout games each year. That's what Ronaldo fans have reduced the argument to in order to prove he's better than Messi because they know if you compare goals/dribbling/passing/vision etc there's only one winner.
 
Zehner said:
League games are the new friendlies I suppose
Click to expand...
I mean, why should we count games that result in major trophies as meaningful? Most of what Messi has done in his career has been meaningless.

He's a highlight-reel YouTube merchant. Meaningless.

Am I doing this right?
 
Peyroteo said:
:lol:

Remember when...
Click to expand...
Do you remember when you said that teams don't want players like Messi, claimed that his style of play damages teams, stated that Messi is a "passenger", and that it's impossible to build a team around him?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lionel-messi.441551/page-10#post-23148932

Peyroteo said:
There’s a reason the classic number 10 position is dying in modern football and that’s what Messi is. Teams want more versatile players who are dynamic both in the attacking and defensive phase, closing off the space between the lines has become a science for plenty of managers and you can’t really afford a passenger when you’re pressing the opposition, especially in the big games.

The last 3 years should have opened a lot of eyes to the importance of adapting to different scenarios throughout a football match and I really believe Valverde building this team around Messi will be setting himself up for failure exactly the same way it happened with Argentina.

People say he does everything you want in an attacking player except heading the ball but he really doesn’t. It is very hard to build a system around the current version of Messi.
Click to expand...
Let's not look too much at the individual claims there, such as the implication that Ronaldo is "dynamic" in the defensive phase, that he is not a passenger defensively, that he somehow does something in transition that Messi does not, etc! I'd love to know how Ronaldo is better in transition than Messi, when Messi is better on the ball, a better passer, better dribbler, and has palpably better stats in all of these areas, while Ronaldo relies almost entirely on other players to set him up for tap-ins, frequently even complaining when one of his team-mates has the temerity to score a goal!

I made a prediction, whereas you have made a statement that is abject nonsense. I would say that my claim that Bale would score as many goals as Ronaldo in the Real Madrid team of last season if he was indulged to the same extent (and if he was ever fit) is a pretty uncontroversial claim, compared to the claim that Messi is essentially a liability for Barcelona. But I'll let other people judge that.

In terms of Real Madrid, Ronaldo would not score the number of goals that he did last season in the current team. Just like he hasn't at Juventus.

Sometimes teams go over the hill at the same time, and sometimes their motivation wanes. For example, in the English league Chelsea won the title in 2014-15, and then the very next season they were near the relegation zone. Exact same thing happened to Leicester 12 months later.

I'm quite sure that losing Ronaldo has hurt Real, but their team is quite clearly ageing and struggling. To say that they are just struggling because Ronaldo doesn't play for them any more is simplistic, to say the least.

I know you want to believe...they were called Real Madrid last season, they're called Real Madrid this season, and therefore it's the same team, and they've collapsed because Ronaldo left, but that's a rather juvenile perspective.

Furthermore, as I’ve said before, no-one can objectively prove that Messi is better than Ronaldo, or vice-versa. It is a matter of opinion. Someone could state that Neymar is better than both of them, and while I would find that a ridiculous view, it is not something that can be literally disproved.

However, you may wish to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi, and that’s your right. I’m just informing you that virtually no-one objective believes this now, and when their careers are over it will be Messi who is considered one of the greatest ever, and possibly football’s greatest ever player, not Ronaldo.

You can kick and scream all you like, but nothing you ever say will change that. Whatever you say, most people are going to observe Messi and Ronaldo, and conclude that Messi is the better player. Hence the fact that countless journalists, pundits and ex-players now believe Messi is the best ever, or at the very least is in the argument, whereas virtually no-one comparable believes this of Ronaldo.

This is just a fact of life that you will have to accept. Because it isn’t going to change. That is the reality in the real world, outside of this forum.

If you can show me otherwise, and show me that lots of pundits, journalists (outside of Portugal) and former players actually do consider Ronaldo to be better than Messi then be my guest. You love quoting people, it should be easy for you.
 
Mogget said:
This is what you're arguing against. League games are now irrelevant. The total number of goals scored/assisted is irrelevant. CL group games are irrelevant. The only games which now count are the handful of CL knockout games each year. That's what Ronaldo fans have reduced the argument to in order to prove he's better than Messi because they know if you compare goals/dribbling/passing/vision etc there's only one winner.
Click to expand...

Fridge chutney said:
I mean, why should we count games that result in major trophies as meaningful? Most of what Messi has done in his career has been meaningless.

He's a highlight-reel YouTube merchant. Meaningless.

Am I doing this right?
Click to expand...

Yup, you definitely are. Taking what I said, completely exaggerating it and then arguing against the stupid thing you've just made up.

Did I say league games are meaningless or irrelevant? TODAY's game was... for both of them. One scored an hattrick, the other stayed at home. If it was the opposite the outcome is the same for their teams so why does it matter?
 
Charles Miller said:
Do you watched Pele in the 60s when he was young? I'm asking because majority only saw some videos in the world cup of 1970 where despite being decisive he was a 30 years old in decandence who was bench some months before the world cup. Be 30 years old in 1970 would be like a player at age of 35 today.

I dont know between Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona who is the best player ever. But one thing i'm sure now, i was waiting Messi to do SOMETHING relevant with Argetina so i could say he is the best. But he didn't and is not gonna do. He is only special when in his comfort zone.

There is no such a thing as a G.O.A.T who can't win nothing with his national team, being argentinian with one of their best generations ever. At least someone able to decide important games in the wc.

Lets be honest here, if your national team will play the final of the world cup tomorrow and you can pick ONE PLAYER in the world everybody would pick Ronaldo.
Click to expand...
This bullshit narrative again. Did you even watch the games, mate? People keep going about that superstar Argentinian national team with Di Maria, Higuain, Aguero et al, but have you actually watched them play for Argentina? I really doubt that, otherwise you wouldn't be spouting nonsense like above.

And yeah, Messi had his share of poor moments with national team, but please, stop that "one of the best generations ever" stuff, best maybe in FIFA or on paper.
 
To be fair, though, I thought Ronaldo had a good game at the weekend, whereas Messi did nothing as usual...
 
wub1234 said:
Do you remember when you said that teams don't want players like Messi, claimed that his style of play damages teams, stated that Messi is a "passenger", and that it's impossible to build a team around him?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lionel-messi.441551/page-10#post-23148932

Let's not look too much at the individual claims there, such as the implication that Ronaldo is "dynamic" in the defensive phase, that he is not a passenger defensively, that he somehow does something in transition that Messi does not, etc! I'd love to know how Ronaldo is better in transition than Messi, when Messi is better on the ball, a better passer, better dribbler, and has palpably better stats in all of these areas, while Ronaldo relies almost entirely on other players to set him up for tap-ins, frequently even complaining when one of his team-mates has the temerity to score a goal!

I made a prediction, whereas you have made a statement that is abject nonsense. I would say that my claim that Bale would score as many goals as Ronaldo in the Real Madrid team of last season if he was indulged to the same extent (and if he was ever fit) is a pretty uncontroversial claim, compared to the claim that Messi is essentially a liability for Barcelona. But I'll let other people judge that.

In terms of Real Madrid, Ronaldo would not score the number of goals that he did last season in the current team. Just like he hasn't at Juventus.

Sometimes teams go over the hill at the same time, and sometimes their motivation wanes. For example, in the English league Chelsea won the title in 2014-15, and then the very next season they were near the relegation zone. Exact same thing happened to Leicester 12 months later.

I'm quite sure that losing Ronaldo has hurt Real, but their team is quite clearly ageing and struggling. To say that they are just struggling because Ronaldo doesn't play for them any more is simplistic, to say the least.

I know you want to believe...they were called Real Madrid last season, they're called Real Madrid this season, and therefore it's the same team, and they've collapsed because Ronaldo left, but that's a rather juvenile perspective.

Furthermore, as I’ve said before, no-one can objectively prove that Messi is better than Ronaldo, or vice-versa. It is a matter of opinion. Someone could state that Neymar is better than both of them, and while I would find that a ridiculous view, it is not something that can be literally disproved.

However, you may wish to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi, and that’s your right. I’m just informing you that virtually no-one objective believes this now, and when their careers are over it will be Messi who is considered one of the greatest ever, and possibly football’s greatest ever player, not Ronaldo.

You can kick and scream all you like, but nothing you ever say will change that. Whatever you say, most people are going to observe Messi and Ronaldo, and conclude that Messi is the better player. Hence the fact that countless journalists, pundits and ex-players now believe Messi is the best ever, or at the very least is in the argument, whereas virtually no-one comparable believes this of Ronaldo.

This is just a fact of life that you will have to accept. Because it isn’t going to change. That is the reality in the real world, outside of this forum.

If you can show me otherwise, and show me that lots of pundits, journalists (outside of Portugal) and former players actually do consider Ronaldo to be better than Messi then be my guest. You love quoting people, it should be easy for you.
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Why do you have to write 100 lines on every single comment? I can't waste three hours replying to everything every time you reply to me. There are millions of neutral people who think Ronaldo is the better player, read the past three pages here and you'll find some. I've literally replied to you in the past with plenty of examples, can't be bothered doing it every couple of months. You'd have to be a complete idiot to think every neutral person thinks Messi is the better player.

I stand by every single word I said in that quote. The tactical problems it brings should be obvious to everyone, what you didn't quote was me saying those problems were more often than not worth it due to his individual brilliance.
 
Unbelieveable today - but careful guys, games like today can apparently skew your opinion and foolishly make you believe Messi is the better player.
 
Peyroteo said:
No. Just proving a point of how days like today skew a lot of people's minds.
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I can't speak for others but my mind wasn't skewed by that match. All it does is reinforce what I already know.

And I don't think your argument for Ronaldo is without merit btw, I just don't agree with it. If those advocating relentlessly for Ronaldo were more strict with the terminology they use then I don't think other people would be put off the debate as much.
 
Peyroteo said:
Should they though?

It's an unbelievable goal but it's a meaningless goal in a meaningless game. Most of the football world won't care or watch the game in the first place.

Good for his stats, good for his highlight reel... completely meaningless for Barcelona. This is what's happened year after year.
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You mean just like every goal Ronaldo scored in CL final?(well except the Chelsea one, but he missed a penalty in that one too)
 
Peyroteo said:
Yup, you definitely are. Taking what I said, completely exaggerating it and then arguing against the stupid thing you've just made up.

Did I say league games are meaningless or irrelevant? TODAY's game was... for both of them. One scored an hattrick, the other stayed at home. If it was the opposite the outcome is the same for their teams so why does it matter?
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It's convenient to downplay a fantastic performance in a competitive match because it doesn't suit your narrative. It's disingenuous at best and agenda-driven at worst.

For what it's worth, today proves nothing (no one-off match can). But be prepared to be ridiculed when you arbitrarily assign a value of "meaningfulness" to matches in order to downplay certain performances.
 
Peyroteo said:
Should they though?

It's an unbelievable goal but it's a meaningless goal in a meaningless game. Most of the football world won't care or watch the game in the first place.

Good for his stats, good for his highlight reel... completely meaningless for Barcelona. This is what's happened year after year.
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You've become a parody of yourself. Fecking hell.
 
Amar__ said:
You mean just like every goal Ronaldo scored in CL final?(well except the Chelsea one, but he missed a penalty in that one too)
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Like the one he scored vs Atletico yeah... should I rate him higher for it?

He scored the 1-0 and the 3-1 vs Juve so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
 
Fridge chutney said:
It's convenient to downplay a fantastic performance in a competitive match because it doesn't suit your narrative. It's disingenuous at best and agenda-driven at worst.

For what it's worth, today proves nothing (no one-off match can). But be prepared to be ridiculed when you arbitrarily assign a value of "meaningfulness" to matches in order to downplay certain performances.
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Arbitrarily? What's arbitrary about it? The importance of a match is pretty self-evident.

If Messi goes on to play like this every league match, Barcelona wins the league. If he goes on to have 5/10 performances in every league game remaining, Barcelona win the league. If Valverde decides to rest him for the rest of the season in the league I won't rate him any lower than if he scores 5 every game.
 
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