Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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I still ask myself exactly when did Cristiano prove he can play in more systems than Messi?

Ever since his first Ballon D'Or level season he essentially played the same position. A very unique one, too. You could probably cqll it something like a false 7 since he plays as a winger but only to make runs into the area which is usually inhabited by a no 9. Over the years this got more and more extrem and he left more and more traditional winger responsibilities aside in order to maximize his goal scoring. What's also very important: he needed striker to support him in a very uncommon fashion. Benzema needed to adapt to him like few players did and sacrificed a lot of his goal threat as a consequence. His duties were usually dragging defenders away to create space which Cristiano could attack, either through runs or by playing more like a false 9. As said before, this got more extreme with every season at Madrid. Juventus is a step back from that (and a huge one indeed) but you can still see similar patterns. For a player that is allegedly so adaptable, Cristiano needs a very unique setup to function. At Juve he essentially forced Higuain out of the squad and Dybala's goal scoring, formerly their best and most important player, fell off a cliff and he became replaceable. Hard to imagine Cristiano forming a partnership with someone like Kane or Lewandowski.

Now, if we look at Messi, he's functioned in a LOT of different setups. It's the third time I post it (still waiting for Peyroteo to adress the points in it) but here's a great video that illustrates how Messi adapted to the players Barcelona brought in.



Under Guardiola he started on the left with Eto'o/Ibrahimovic being the main striker. He then moved into the false nine position which was completely different from his previous position. Played very high up the pitch and received the ball usually in the line between the midfield and defense. When Enrique came in and Suarez and Neymar were bought, he again moved to the right side. Under Valverde, he initially played as a second striker. When Dembele came in, he moved to the ten. Now that they have Arthur and switched back to a 4-3-3, he's back at the left wing (though his position may still change from game to game).

He also drops much deeper than he did in his early days in order to help the midfield in the build up of attacks. And that in completely different systems. There's no need to describe Guardiola's system, but Enrique played differently. A lot more cautious. If they took the lead then they'd fall back and rely on counter attacks. His team was characterized by a great attack in contrast to Pep's whose teams are always characterized by dominant midfields. Valverde's system is much more opportunistic/improvised and gives the players much freedom. Highly reliant on individual class, not at all like Guardiola or Enrique who provided clear instructions in the build up and positional play.

You can also see his adaptability at the partnerships he's formed. Besides the other La Masia players (Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, primarily) he also formed great partnerships with Dani Alves, Jordi Alba, Suarez, Neymar and even Paulinho. Regarding Cristiano you could maybe say the same for Marcelo and Benzema, though Benzema is a tricky case. Messi made every single attacker he played with look better while Benzema looked worse because he sacrificed much of his typical striker game for the Portuguese.

And that's probably the most important thing. Messi can play with everybody successfully. Ronaldo can only play with a selective few. It's hard to imagine him in the same team as someone like Hazard or Neymar since he occupies their space on the left. Yet it is also hard to imagine him playing with a worldclass striker because he'll occupy their space in the box and requires them to abandon these areas. With Messi it is different. Positionally, he's much more adaptable because he can switch between three positions without any drop in quality. You can fit him in the same squad with almost anybody. And he doesn't occupy the space top strikers usually demand for themselves like Ronaldo does. The goal records of his fellow attackers won't drop because he's in the squad like it is the case with Ronaldo, if anything they will rise. And that's because he's probably also the best assist giver in the world right now and scores his goals starting from deep positions instead of occupying the box. You basically get his goals on top of the output of a top striker.

So I really don't see how Ronaldo is more adaptable. Yes, it is easy to assist him since he's probably the best there is (or even was) when it comes to converting crosses and is also great at making runs behind the defense but he's still a very challenging team mate for strikers and left wingers. He forces the team to adapt to him (and you see it at Juve this season, primarily when looking at Dybala and Higuain) and not vice versa. In order to think that he's better in this area you have to analyze his career with a magnifying class while only briefly examining Messi from the distance IMO. If you really take a closer look, Messi has been truly worldclass in more different positions than Ronaldo and in completely different setups as well. And it also shows that when new stars come in, it is Messi who adapts not the other way round like it is often the case with Cristiano.
 
What absolute nonsense...

What happened with Dybala and Coutinho?

Ronaldo’s formed successful striker partnerships with Rooney, Saha, Tevez, Higuain, Benzema, Berbatov, Mandzukic, Adebayor, Hélder Postiga, Hugo Almeida, André Silva... hell, he’s often even played with two of them at a time. He’s played with more wingers than you can count. Where did Asensio play? Ronaldo’s gone and he looks half he player.

A squad with Ronaldo has always maximized its potential. A squad with Messi blatantly hasn’t as seen by Barcelona and Argentina underperforming years.

Saying that you don’t see Ronaldo working in a team with Hazard or Neymar is so stupid. It would be the best thing that’s ever happened to him to have that sort of quality feeding him. First of all, Neymar’s best position is through the middle... where he rarely played at Barcelona. When Messi got injured, it was unsurprisingly his best period at Barcelona. Secondly, Ronaldo plays through the left? Have you seen him play at all for years? He’s a mobile forward, constantly changing positions and he appears on both sides and through the middle.

Ronaldo adapts to his teammates while for years now it’s the teammates that adapt to Messi. Argentina have the team to be playing a high pressing counter attacking game and they’re forced to play a slow possession style worthy of Van Gaal’s United since he doesn’t move. No shit they make mistakes playing like that. Meanwhile Portugal has half the talent and we’re twice the team because we actually play to the players’ strengths.

Messi has always played a single role during a season. He’s obviously changed as a player throughout the years but it had feck all to do with adapting to teammates. It’s normal that he started playing centrally to score more and it’s normal that he’s playing deeper as he’s losing his pace. Put him as the false 9 or on the right wing now and he’s not the player he once was when he played there, obviously.

If Messi was able to adapt he’d have been playing on the right wing all of these years instead of not making the standard Barcelona 4-3-3 work since they had no width on the right and had to play 2 players through the middle in an unbalanced 4-4-2.

I still ask myself exactly when did Cristiano prove he can play in more systems than Messi?

When he played in about 20 different ones successfully. Messi needs players who run a lot to compensate for his lack of it, both when they have the ball or not. No shit he’s able to make better decisions on the ball when he can run 4 kms less than everyone else on the pitch.

Also, saying Ronaldo arrived forced Higuain out of the squad because they wouldn’t be able to play together is the stupidest thing you’ve ever said.

You know damn well why Higuain left. Or was the fact they had to significantly lower their wages meaningless? Allegri literally said that was why for fecks sake. Ronaldo wishes he was playing with Higuain, would have worked great the same way it did in Madrid the first time around. If there’s someone who didn’t make it work with Higuain it’s certainly not Ronaldo.
 
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The gap isn't as large as you might think it is. They are only few points (4 points) ahead of Napoli last season, the title hasn't been decided until the very end. In the season before (16-17), again they are only few points (4 points) ahead of Roma and Napoli. But this season, so far they are leading by 18 points, undefeated. Up to now, they have improved the gap by 14 points, comparing to the past 2 seasons.

The points gap is a result of Napoli regressing after losing their manager and midfield linchpin in the summer. They're 12 points worse off than the same stage last season when they trailed Juve by 2 after 27 games.

Juve are 4 points up on their tally this season compared to last. An improvement alright but not much of one. Given the upheaval at Napoli it was always going to be an easy year for Juve in the league. About to be 8 in a row. Not bad really.
 
Yes, but for me it's not as much about the latter part, it's former - it's not the "being a key player in a winning team", it's more the "being a key player in a winning team".

In other words, whether the team wins or loses is the most important thing as far as the team is concerned. But if we'll be judging who the best player is, then that becomes secondary. The most imporatnt thing regarding who the best player is, is just that - who's the best player.

This is how I think about it - the aim of war is obviously to win the war. But if you were judging who the best soldier is, you wouldn't just look at whoever won the war. That would be irrelevant because winning the war takes a lot more than one soldier. So you'd simply look at only the characteristics which decide who the best soldier is, in their own regard, even if their side lost the war.
In sports it simply is not like that at all. Look at any Sport the most important thing is winning especially when determining greatness. Your impact for the team and ability to make them win look at MJ in basketball.
 
When he played in about 20 different ones successfully.

Of course he did :lol:

I gues that ...

What absolute nonsense...

... was an abstract of what was following?

If so, bold it next time. Initially, I almost thought you meant my post with it. Silly me.

By the way, will you ever adress the points made in the video? Or is the author also a Messi fanboy?
 
Of course he did :lol:

I gues that ...



... was an abstract of what was following?

If so, bold it next time. Initially, I almost thought you meant my post with it. Silly me.

By the way, will you ever adress the points made in the video? Or is the author also a Messi fanboy?

If you cant see why doing it in three countries with three different teams is more impressive than staying in your comfort zone is there any point in him replying?

If it was the other way around you would be signing messis praises.
 
If you cant see why doing it in three countries with three different teams is more impressive than staying in your comfort zone is there any point in him replying?

If it was the other way around you would be signing messis praises.

We had this discussion already, now we are talking about systems.

But I admit, Cristiano is definitely the better expat.
 
Yeah playing under one philosophy, growing with it from youth and playing his whole career within it does not in any way make it easier footballing wise.

The ball is still round and it's just a different language... I mean how dense to you have to be to not understand how the changes and circumstances of it affect them footballing wise?
 
We had this discussion already, now we are talking about systems.

But I admit, Cristiano is definitely the better expat.

So you think the United 4-3-3 system with Rooney,Tevez,Ronaldo or Rooney, Tevez/barca,Ronaldo, giggs/nano isn't any different than bale,Ronaldo,benzema or Ronaldo, Kaka, benzema with pepe playing in midfield to what he is currently playing with juve are all the same?
 
Even the mere thought that players as good as Messi and Ronaldo could not cut it in other leagues is so downright ridiculous that this point shouldn't be taken seriously. I mean, in every league there are lesser versions of these two playing everything into the ground and yet people wonder if they'd be able to do it in other leagues? Come on. That Ronaldo has been a success in different countries is at best a fun fact in the greater scheme of things. Claiming Ronaldo played in "20 different systems" while simultaneously suggesting Messi always played in the same says it all, by the way.

If I was cynical I'd be saying there's a reason the Cristiano camp constantly drags the discussion away from actual football ;)
 
Yeah playing under one philosophy, growing with it from youth and playing his whole career within it does not in any way make it easier footballing wise.

The ball is still round and it's just a different language... I mean how dense to you have to be to not understand how the changes and circumstances of it affect them footballing wise?

Still waiting for you to share your thoughts on the video btw. Exemplarily on these lines:

"In fact, Guardiola's willingness to experiment with his use of Messi, and Messi's ability to adapt to that, was a central pillar of the 14 trophies the pair won together. Messi's key abilities, his vision, dribbling and control, and his selfless defensive work, meant that he could effectively play wherever Guardiola wanted - as such, sometimes Messi's use said more about Barcelona's other players and their strengths than it did about his own. In the course of Guardiola's tenure, Messi played as a right wing in the 4-3-3 formation [...], as a central 10 number behind a central striker in a sort of asymmetric 4-2-4 [...], as a false nine/ten in an updated version of the 3-4-3. [...] Messi's skill and versatility meant that as other players around him changed in terms of ability, physical attributes or even actual personnel, he could adapt and excel."

"A few years later, under the tutelage of Ernesto Valverde, Messi's adaptability has again been highlighted, as he featured in a second striker role in Barcelona's 4-4-2 system. [...] Valverde also uses a 4-3-3 with Messi on the right wing."

"Notwithstanding the fact that Messi is the world's best footballer and would likely fit into any side and that he has also shown impressive positional versatility in his career [...]"

Doesn't sound like a player that forces his team to play a particular way but rather like someone who, you know, adapts his playstyle to support his team mates. But maybe that's just me, who knows.
 
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Even the mere thought that players as good as Messi and Ronaldo could not cut it in other leagues is so downright ridiculous that this point shouldn't be taken seriously. I mean, in every league there are lesser versions of these two playing everything into the ground and yet people wonder if they'd be able to do it in other leagues? Come on. That Ronaldo has been a success in different countries is at best a fun fact in the greater scheme of things. Claiming Ronaldo played in "20 different systems" while simultaneously suggesting Messi always played in the same says it all, by the way.

If I was cynical I'd be saying there's a reason the Cristiano camp constantly drags the discussion away from actual football ;)

So you have changed your view point to Ronaldo played the same position through out his career in the same system to its dragging discussions away from actual football? As for the rest, its not like we have seen messi struggle without his barca teammates for a side and fail to win a single trophy.

I also don't get the last point, do you think people are discussing how well ronaldo played table tennis in england compared to spain?
 
So you have changed your view point to Ronaldo played the same position through out his career in the same system to its dragging discussions away from actual football? As for the rest, its not like we have seen messi struggle without his barca teammates for a side and fail to win a single trophy.

I also don't get the last point, do you think people are discussing how well ronaldo played table tennis in england compared to spain?

No, I haven't changed my viewpoint nor do I think that Ronaldo has played in the same system throughout his career. Yet his roles in these systems ever since he started scoring as much as he does were much more similar than Messi's roles in the systems he has played in. Essentially, CR7 was always some sort of "false 7" ever since his first CL win.

I don't know what you are discussing, but judging by what you posted so far it essentially has the same significance as the thing you are comparing it to, yes.

I mean, who would've thought that one of the two best players in the world could cut it for the best team in the Italian league. Amazing.
 
No, I haven't changed my viewpoint nor do I think that Ronaldo has played in the same system throughout his career. Yet his roles in these systems ever since he started scoring as much as he does were much more similar than Messi's roles in the systems he has played in. Essentially, CR7 was always some sort of "false 7" ever since his first CL win.

I don't know what you are discussing, but judging by what you posted so far it essentially has the same significance as the thing you are comparing it to, yes.

I mean, who would've thought that one of the two best players in the world could cut it for the best team in the Italian league. Amazing.

So the below about him essentially playing the same position is a lie? So we have come to accept that he has played in different systems but are still stating that his role has not changed at all? So you think ronaldo in his first season in madrid had the same responsibility as under SAF and then mourinho/zidane and now allegri play him with the same instructions?

Who would have thought that the best player in the world would cut it for one of the strongest sides in the world featuring the likes of ageuro, higuain, di maria, mascherano, banega, etc Oh wait.

I still ask myself exactly when did Cristiano prove he can play in more systems than Messi?

Ever since his first Ballon D'Or level season he essentially played the same position.

And that's probably the most important thing. Messi can play with everybody successfully. Ronaldo can only play with a selective few
. It's hard to imagine him in the same team as someone like Hazard or Neymar since he occupies their space on the left. Yet it is also hard to imagine him playing with a worldclass striker because he'll occupy their space in the box and requires them to abandon these areas. With Messi it is different. Positionally, he's much more adaptable because he can switch between three positions without any drop in quality. You can fit him in the same squad with almost anybody. And he doesn't occupy the space top strikers usually demand for themselves like Ronaldo does. The goal records of his fellow attackers won't drop because he's in the squad like it is the case with Ronaldo, if anything they will rise. And that's because he's probably also the best assist giver in the world right now and scores his goals starting from deep positions instead of occupying the box. You basically get his goals on top of the output of a top striker.

So I really don't see how Ronaldo is more adaptable. Yes, it is easy to assist him since he's probably the best there is (or even was) when it comes to converting crosses and is also great at making runs behind the defense but he's still a very challenging team mate for strikers and left wingers. He forces the team to adapt to him (and you see it at Juve this season, primarily when looking at Dybala and Higuain) and not vice versa. In order to think that he's better in this area you have to analyze his career with a magnifying class while only briefly examining Messi from the distance IMO. If you really take a closer look, Messi has been truly worldclass in more different positions than Ronaldo and in completely different setups as well. And it also shows that when new stars come in, it is Messi who adapts not the other way round like it is often the case with Cristiano.
 
Still waiting for you to share your thoughts on the video btw. Exemplarily on these lines:

"In fact, Guardiola's willingness to experiment with his use of Messi, and Messi's ability to adapt to that, was a central pillar of the 14 trophies the pair won together. Messi's key abilities, his vision, dribbling and control, and his selfless defensive work, meant that he could effectively play wherever Guardiola wanted - as such, sometimes Messi's use said more about Barcelona's other players and their strengths than it did about his own. In the course of Guardiola's tenure, Messi played as a right wing in the 4-3-3 formation [...], as a central 10 number behind a central striker in a sort of asymmetric 4-2-4 [...], as a false nine/ten in an updated version of the 3-4-3. [...] Messi's skill and versatility meant that as other players around him changed in terms of ability, physical attributes or even actual personnel, he could adapt and excel."

"A few years later, under the tutelage of Ernesto Valverde, Messi's adaptability has again been highlighted, as he featured in a second striker role in Barcelona's 4-4-2 system. [...] Valverde also uses a 4-3-3 with Messi on the right wing."

"Notwithstanding the fact that Messi is the world's best footballer and would likely fit into any side and that he has also shown impressive positional versatility in his career [...]"

Doesn't sound like a player that forces his team to play a particular way but rather like someone who, you know, adapts his playstyle to support his team mates. But maybe that's just me, who knows.

I've literally already said why that's not true. You want me to repeat it?

He's never ever even be played right wing under Valverde, just a complete lie. It's been a huge problem under his tenure especialy when Dembele is out or under Enrique when Neymar was around. For two seasons they played with Suarez and Messi in the middle, Neymar + Alba on the left and absolutely noone on the right. Changes between the 3-4-3 and 4-3-3 happened in defense and in the build up under Guardiola, it was exactly the same for Messi with the exactly same personnel offensively and the exact same team movements. He changed throughout his career as a player, obviously. It's not true he successfully adapted throughout seasons or games depending on the teammates around him or the opposition.

I'd love to see Messi play next to Mario Mandzukic in a team reliant on crossing and physical football, I'd love to see him have to spend 60 minutes of matches in his own half, I'd love to see him have to run 10 kilometers per match, I'd love to see him play under defensive managers as Mourinho, Benitez and Allegri... I'd love to see him do all those things and retain his offensive production. We'll never get to see it though, will we? Barca are buying De Jong, probably De Ligt, the likes of Griezmann or Jovic for the attack... another 200 to 300 millions worth of investment while having the biggest wage bill in the sport by a mile and fanboys here will still pretend he doesn't have a massive advantage over everyone else.
 
I mean, who would've thought that one of the two best players in the world could cut it for the best team in the Italian league. Amazing.

You were the one the argued Madrid's success was due to their midfield though...

There's noone in the world that should be more impressed with how this season has turned out so far than yourself.

Now you say it's easy... after years of saying he was only doing what he was doing because he had Kroos and Modric behind him.
 
So the below about him essentially playing the same position is a lie? So we have come to accept that he has played in different systems but are still stating that his role has not changed at all? So you think ronaldo in his first season in madrid had the same responsibility as under SAF and then mourinho/zidane and now allegri play him with the same instructions?

Who would have thought that the best player in the world would cut it for one of the strongest sides in the world featuring the likes of ageuro, higuain, di maria, mascherano, banega, etc Oh wait.

Those two quotes don't contradict each other.

And no, they didn't play him with the same instructions. Probably neither of them played him two games in a row with the same instructions. Of course those vary. Still it is essentially the same position, a winger that drifts inside a lot to be available for passes/crosses. Yes, he interpreted the position differently throughout the years (which I also stated in some post) but still. Same position on the left wing, same adaptions required from the striker, at least during his Madrid tenure.
 
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I've literally already said why that's not true. You want me to repeat it?

He's never ever even be played right wing under Valverde, just a complete lie. It's been a huge problem under his tenure especialy when Dembele is out or under Enrique when Neymar was around. For two seasons they played with Suarez and Messi in the middle, Neymar + Alba on the left and absolutely noone on the right. Changes between the 3-4-3 and 4-3-3 happened in defense and in the build up under Guardiola, it was exactly the same for Messi with the exactly same personnel offensively and the exact same team movements. He changed throughout his career as a player, obviously. It's not true he successfully adapted throughout seasons or games depending on the teammates around him or the opposition.

I'd love to see Messi play next to Mario Mandzukic in a team reliant on crossing and physical football, I'd love to see him have to spend 60 minutes of matches in his own half, I'd love to see him have to run 10 kilometers per match, I'd love to see him play under defensive managers as Mourinho, Benitez and Allegri... I'd love to see him do all those things and retain his offensive production. We'll never get to see it though, will we? Barca are buying De Jong, probably De Ligt, the likes of Griezmann or Jovic for the attack... another 200 to 300 millions worth of investment while having the biggest wage bill in the sport by a mile and fanboys here will still pretend he doesn't have a massive advantage over everyone else.

So basically, these are lies, damned lies and statistics again, I guess. Can't say I'm surprised. See, I choose to go with the in-depth analysis this time, not yours.

You were the one the argued Madrid's success was due to their midfield though...

There's noone in the world that should be more impressed with how this season has turned out so far than yourself.

Now you say it's easy... after years of saying he was only doing what he was doing because he had Kroos and Modric behind him.

Let me put it in your words: What the hell? I never said that.

Yes, games are primarily decided in the midfield nowadays and yes, Modric and Kroos were very important for Madrid's success. And Cristiano was even more important and I never suggested anything different, so what's your point? And yes, I am indeed impressed of how Cristiano is playing for Juve. Moreover, I already acknowledged that on multiple occasions and I'm quite sure that you remember that. I even did that when he played for Portugal during the WC. Not sure what you want to say with that, though. We've already seen Cristiano being a much better dribbler and creator than his current self. This only proves that he is aging incredibly well. I've never doubted that he'll be good in Italy by the way. I only doubted if this transfer will pay off for Juve since it is a risky one. At his age, it can go downwards incredibly fast and they require at least 2-3 years of the current performances to be even I guess.
 
Never got this. Ronaldo's reputation of being a leader is primarily based on one final during which he got emotional at the sideline after being subbed out due to injury. I honestly question that someone who is annoyed if a team mate "steals" his goal, who openly criticizes his team mates for not being good enough when things aren't going well or who's offended if the club pays a greater fee for a player that came in after him is a good leader by any means. He's far too self-centered to be considered one. He's a role model athlete for his team mates attitude-wise, yes, but that doesn't make him a leader.

That has nothing to do with his footballing ability though. Don't really understand what leadership skills have to do with how good you are playing football anyway.

I just think he is so obsessed with winning that he makes things happen in a certain way.

He did want to win a trophy with Portugal one day and has been rewarded.

#Ultimate Winning Mentality
 
In all honesty, even with Diegos prime being over 30 years ago, j struggle to find many people who will say that Cristiano is better than he was (apart from Gullit, and Ronaldos agent). GOAT calibre candidates in most people's eyes require talent of the very higgest order, of the likes we'll struggle to see again. I really cant imagine anyone watching peam Cristiano and saying, " ive never in my life seen anyone so good". Ask Rooney, Rio and Scholes (plus mang doubtless others). They only say that about a certain player. Cristiano is one of tge3 greatest players of all time. His basic talent level can never elevate him to GOAT status, just doesn't have enough. Leo on the other hand?

Tbh although he does not posess Diego's dribbling and flair, Ronaldo has scored some absolute stunners in career. Just for United his screamer against Porto and his freekick against Arsenal is among the best goals I've ever seen. Since he does not have low center of gravity, you cannot expect him to have the dribbling in close Spaces that Messi and Maradonna has. But even so in his United days he was still a pretty good dribbler although not as good as Messi.

He's a different kind of player. I don't think i've seen Messi score and overhead kick like Ronaldo did vs Juve either.
 
So basically, these are lies, damned lies and statistics again, I guess. Can't say I'm surprised. See, I choose to go with the in-depth analysis this time, not yours.



Let me put it in your words: What the hell? I never said that.

Yes, games are primarily decided in the midfield nowadays and yes, Modric and Kroos were very important for Madrid's success. And Cristiano was even more important and I never suggested anything different, so what's your point? And yes, I am indeed impressed of how Cristiano is playing for Juve. Moreover, I already acknowledged that on multiple occasions and I'm quite sure that you remember that. I even did that when he played for Portugal during the WC. Not sure what you want to say with that, though. We've already seen Cristiano being a much better dribbler and creator than his current self. This only proves that he is aging incredibly well. I've never doubted that he'll be good in Italy by the way. I only doubted if this transfer will pay off for Juve since it is a risky one. At his age, it can go downwards incredibly fast and they require at least 2-3 years of the current performances to be even I guess.

They're already even as said multiples times regarding the financial impact you refuse to acknowledge. You know what you said and argued in this thread for years now, don't think I need to remind you.

Spent I don't know how long arguing Ronaldo had that success because of Madrid... he leaves and it's not impressive that he's kept it up with Juve. You don't get to have it both ways.

See, I choose to go with the in-depth analysis this time, not yours.

You go with the completely nonsensical in-depth analysis then that quotes several lies as outright facts... that's the way to go. 99% of football-related stats are made to prove a point in the first place, and most of the 1% are worthless pieces of information. Football isn't basketball. Go to WhoScored and 7 dribbles to nowhere and lots of touches on the ball with sideways passes gets you a man of the match award.
 
They're already even as said multiples times regarding the financial impact you refuse to acknowledge. You know what you said and argued in this thread for years now, don't think I need to remind you.

Spent I don't know how long arguing Ronaldo had that success because of Madrid... he leaves and it's not impressive that he's kept it up with Juve. You don't get to have it both ways.



You go with the completely nonsensical in-depth analysis then that quotes several lies as outright facts... that's the way to go. 99% of football-related stats are made to prove a point in the first place, and most of the 1% are worthless pieces of information. Football isn't basketball. Go to WhoScored and 7 dribbles to nowhere and lots of touches on the ball with sideways passes gets you a man of the match award.

Not being coherent with your narrative doesn't make it nonsensical. You're wrong, plain and simple.
 
They literally lied, it's not a narrative. It's not even an opinion. But ok

"lies, damned lies and statistics."

Damn, that's a big conspiacy going on against Cristiano. Luckily you are around to reveal it.
 
"lies, damned lies and statistics."

Damn, that's a big conspiacy going on against Cristiano. Luckily you are around to reveal it.

No conspiracy. Just stupidity.

Nothing to do with Ronaldo, just people as yourself who do not understand the sport and have a one-dimentional view of it.
 
To say Messi has never played RW is false, to say Messi has never played under defensive managers is false, Ernesto Valverde ring a bell anyone? The lowest point of this thread for me is when Peyroteo posted a video of Ramos scoring from a corner while Ronaldo was being marked and used that as an argument why Ronaldo is better because he was taking attention away from Ramos, as if Messi never draws attention from oppo defenders when he's on the pitch.

Anyway, far too much has been made of the players they both play with and not how good the actual teams are (combination of players + managers tactics). I don't think it's a stretch to say for the last 3 and a half years Ronaldo has had the better manager and players.
 
No conspiracy. Just stupidity.

Nothing to do with Ronaldo, just people as yourself who do not understand the sport and have a one-dimentional view of it.

So no lies, then?

You are better at self-reasoning than Messi at playing football, by the way. Quite impressive.
 
To say Messi has never played RW is false, to say Messi has never played under defensive managers is false, Ernesto Valverde ring a bell anyone?

I've never said he didn't play RW. And Ernesto Valverde is a defensive manager by Barcelona standards. By regular football fans standards he isn't defensive in the slightest.

I don't think it's a stretch to say for the last 3 and a half years Ronaldo has had the better manager and players.

2 years at a stretch. Last 1.5 years it's not even a contest.
 
So no lies, then?

Yes, lies...

You are better at self-reasoning than Messi at playing football, by the way. Quite impressive.

What's impressive is how much you talk about football without knowing the least about it. Only right for someone so pretentious to be so closeminded.

How are Tuchel and Sarri doing btw? Should I remind you of the comments you made abut it too? Nothing worse in football than you clueless romantics.
 
In sports it simply is not like that at all. Look at any Sport the most important thing is winning especially when determining greatness. Your impact for the team and ability to make them win look at MJ in basketball.
Yeah I sort of talked about that in my next post. You're right. Although there can be an argument made that winning is secondary in importance to entertainment.
 
Yes, lies...



What's impressive is how much you talk about football without knowing the least about it. Only right for someone so pretentious to be so closeminded.

How are Tuchel and Sarri doing btw? Should I remind you of the comments you made abut it too? Nothing worse in football than you clueless romantics.

I don't see any romantics, I see people who favour a certain playstyle because they think it maximizes your chances of success on the one side and one person who permanently contradicts himself because his entire view of football is determined by what makes Ronaldo look good on the other. I think Messi is currently the best because of what I rate in a player, and I had these general criteria long before I've first seen Messi play. With you it's the other way round. Your preferences are determined by Ronaldo's strengthes and weaknesses and that's simply flawed logic. If Ronaldo suddenly played differently, his new characteristics will be the go to criteria to judge a player on for you. If Messi changed his playstyle, I wouldn't rate him anymore. That's the difference and the reason why ultimately - although you've got fairly good observational and analytical skills - every post of yours is just irrelevant nonsense. Your lines of argument may be interesting and insightful but your conclusions are always predetermined and foreseeable. That your evaluations aren't open for various outcomes logically makes them wrong in many cases since you simply twist and bend arguments in your idol's favour (and dismiss facts that contradictbyour narrative) and as soon as you get called out for it, you start swearing, ridiculing insulting people, Mr. FFS. Sure sign that you just lost the argument.
 
I don't see any romantics, I see people who favour a certain playstyle because they think it maximizes your chances of success on the one side and one person who permanently contradicts himself because his entire view of football is determined by what makes Ronaldo look good on the other. I think Messi is currently the best because of what I rate in a player, and I had these general criteria long before I've first seen Messi play. With you it's the other way round. Your preferences are determined by Ronaldo's strengthes and weaknesses and that's simply flawed logic. If Ronaldo suddenly played differently, his new characteristics will be the go to criteria to judge a player on for you. If Messi changed his playstyle, I wouldn't rate him anymore. That's the difference and the reason why ultimately - although you've got fairly good observational and analytical skills - every post of yours is just irrelevant nonsense. Your lines of argument may be interesting and insightful but your conclusions are always predetermined and foreseeable. That your evaluations aren't open for various outcomes logically makes them wrong in many cases since you simply twist and bend arguments in your idol's favour (and dismiss facts that contradictbyour narrative) and as soon as you get called out for it, you start swearing, ridiculing insulting people, Mr. FFS. Sure sign that you just lost the argument.

Twelfth different time the same lying accusation. Do you want me to give the same answer for the twelfth time? Lies and personal accusations, that's when you know you've got feck all else to say. Same shit over and over again. I do not have preferences and my criteria has not changed in the slightest. Keep lying. You favour Messi because you're more than biased towards a certain playstyle, you're the one who constantly changes opinions towards players or managers depending entirely on it.

That's why Tuchel, Sarri and Guardiola are the three best managers in the world. Messi, Neymar and Hazard the best players and it's why you detest Cristiano Ronaldo succeeding since he goes completely against everything football is to you. It has feck all to do with your opinions or how good you think he is a football player and everything to do with romanticized propaganda. Every compliment and every criticism you've ever made since being here falls int he same category. Every single prediction you've made in this thread in the past year and a half has gone to shit. Every single thing you've said in this thread has been proven wrong time after time. What more do you want? How much will it take before you realize how wrong you are and you stop blaming every failure and every success on luck depending on what the manager/player represents? If Ronaldo had stayed in Madrid you'd be shitting on him for not having the same offensive production as Messi with the best midfield in the world behind him and you know I'm right. Now the same midfield stopped being the best in the world while performing exactly the same. And I'm the biased and hypocritical one.
 
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Twelfth different time the same lying accusation. Do you want me to give the same answer for the twelfth time? Lies and personal accusations, that's when you know you've got feck all else to say. Same shit over and over again.

I do not have preferences and my criteria has not changed in the slightest. Keep lying.

You favour Messi because you're more than biased towards a certain playstyle, you're the one who constantly changes opinions towards players or managers depending entirely on it.

That's why Tuchel, Sarri and Guardiola are the three best managers in the world. Messi, Neymar and Hazard the best players and it's why you detest Cristiano Ronaldo succeeding since he goes completely against everything football is to you. It has feck all to do with your opinions or how good you think he is a football player and everything to do with romanticized propaganda.

Every single prediction you've made in this thread in the past year and a half has gone to shit. Every single thing you've said in this thread has been proven wrong time after time. What more do you want? How much will it take before you realize how wrong you are?

Yeah, because you are doing it subconsciously.

Won't say much regarding the other stuff. Most of it is false since I haven't said the things you 'accuse' me of nor did I make any predictions since I'm fully aware how hard it is to forecast developments in this sport, especially in cup competitions. Not surprised that your memory is tilted, though. You come across as a person whose perception is extremely influenced by emotions. Of course we are all prone to that but your complete ignorance of opposing views paired with a serious lack of self reflection is quite an extreme combination.

I enjoy watching Ronaldo play by the way, I even cheered when he threw Atletico out. I'm fully aware that I may never see such a player again so I try to just enjoy it while it lasts without being salty. There was a time where I even preferred him over Messi. I simply happen to think now that the Argentinian is a significantly player and that in almost any setup. Your mind is playing tricks on you, mate, you are anatonizing people with different opinions.
 
Yeah, because you are doing it subconsciously.

You know me better than myself, mate :lol:

No point in repeating myself again. See you in a month when you try to psychoanalyze me after I disagree and refute the football points you made. Again.

When that happens and I ask you why the significantly better player can't be as successful as the significantly worse player with a better team around him I hope you have a better answer for me than 'luck'.
 
You know me better than myself, mate :lol:

No point in repeating myself again. See you in a month when you try to psychoanalyze me after I disagree and refute the football points you made. Again.

When that happens and I ask you why the significantly better player can't be as successful as the significantly worse player with a better team around him I hope you have a better answer for me than 'luck'.

I'm sure I'm not the first person you've heard this of, both here and in real life. Should make you think.
 
Ronaldo should have played tonight against Genoa, better stats, some highlight moments... 0 importance to his team but at least some people would rate him higher for it :lol:
 
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