Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Raul Madrid said:
I am calm. I only smashed a few ornaments and flung my chair across the room (breaking my TV in the process) which is nothing I don't do on a regular basis anyway.

Bad jokes aside, I just wanted to explain what I meant and I do not think that using Spain from the last tournament is the best example to use in most discussions regarding them. I did not see how the post I was replying to was pertinent to the period that was being referred to in the comment he was responding to (which was a comment about Spain's successful period). VanGaalEra was talking about Spain's successful period and not their last tournament, but the poster I was responding to brought up their last tournament which was very bad, despite the fact that VanGaalEra was obviously talking about the period from 2008-12.
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Fair enough. My bad.
 
VanGaalEra said:
You mean like Spain, who didn't half do too bad?
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Spain were not all that impressive, in 2008 i thought they were playing wonderful stuff and really were a joy to watch. 2010 and 2012 they just had the best players and pretty much any system would have won them the world cup and the euro's.

There was no direction to their play or cutting edge they just grinded out the result and it wasn't very good to watch. It was very clear they were missing a player like Messi to make the difference in attack.

Most of their results were 1-0 and were out played by Croatia i think in the group stage.

Just because they won the world cup in 2010 and Euro's in 2012 doesn't mean they were the best team ever. The 2008 team was imo much better balanced and more fun to watch.

Also comparing international football to club football is not that accurate, they are playing against completely different teams and the standard of football at international level is not quite as high as it is at club level.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Spain were not all that impressive, in 2008 i thought they were playing wonderful stuff and really were a joy to watch. 2010 and 2012 they just had the best players and pretty much any system would have won them the world cup and the euro's.

There was no direction to their play or cutting edge they just grinded out the result and it wasn't very good to watch. It was very clear they were missing a player like Messi to make the difference in attack.

Most of their results were 1-0 and were out played by Croatia i think in the group stage.

Just because they won the world cup in 2010 and Euro's in 2012 doesn't mean they were the best team ever. The 2008 team was imo much better balanced and more fun to watch.

Also comparing international football to club football is not that accurate, they are playing against completely different teams and the standard of football at international level is not quite as high as it is at club level.
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They definitely weren't all that special in 2012, I agree. Lot of boring, attritional wins in that process. Of course, they did batter Italy in the final, but the Italians were absolutely spent.
 
Vialli_92 said:
There was no direction to their play or cutting edge they just grinded out the result and it wasn't very good to watch. It was very clear they were missing a player like Messi to make the difference in attack.
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They needed a manager who didn't prefer to play such a negative style of football. It had nothing to do with them missing someone like Messi. If Barca played throughout with a 2nd defensive midfielder and Iniesta pushed wide, they would have been a lot more boring as well. Busquets & Alonso with Xavi as the AM made Spain incredibly boring. That was the main difference to Aragones' wonderful side in 2008, when they played with Senna as a holding midfielder and then Xavi with Iniesta, Silva and two of Torres, Villa, Fabregas. If you pick more defensive players than you need, you'll play boring football. I hate del Bosque for turning one of the most exciting nationalteams of all time (Spain 2008) in the arguably most boring World Cup winning team ever.
 
Balu said:
They needed a manager who didn't prefer to play such a negative style of football. It had nothing to do with them missing someone like Messi. If Barca played throughout with a 2nd defensive midfielder and Iniesta pushed wide, they would have been a lot more boring as well. Busquets & Alonso with Xavi as the AM made Spain incredibly boring. That was the main difference to Aragones' wonderful side in 2008, when they played with Senna as a holding midfielder and then Xavi with Iniesta, Silva and two of Torres, Villa, Fabregas. If you pick more defensive players than you need, you'll play boring football. I hate del Bosque for turning one of the most exciting nationalteams of all time (Spain 2008) in the arguably most boring World Cup winning team ever.
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Ye i definitely agree with u on that, Aragones is the one who should get all the credit but Del Bosque gets all the credit for making them a much worse side. Aragones had them playing some wonderful stuff. Some of the best football i have seen at international level.
 
Raul Madrid said:
In his first season at Madrid he created plenty of chances for himself and his dribbling was very good. 09/10 contained lots of goals that came from dribbles. It was when Mourinho came to the club that he seemed to reduce the amount he took on players, perhaps in a bid to lessen the strain on his body so that he can play more matches throughout the season (when Mourinho came to the club the number of matches the team played in a season increased greatly due to Madrid going much further in both the CL and the Copa) as well as Madrid playing very fast, counter-attacking football under Mourinho and he probably wanted players to release the ball quickly rather than attempt to take on other players so as to not slow down the counter-attacks.

He still dribbles occasionally, I should add. This season from what I can remember, his goal vs Levante, his assist for Benzema vs Malaga and his goal vs Rayo (yeah the keeper made a mess of it and it is not the most aesthetically pleasing goal but Ronaldo still had to cut in across the defender to get his shot off) and his assist for Marcelo against Schalke came from beating people. There were other occasions where he went on a good run but nothing came from it in the end, but yeah, I agree that I would like to see him dribble more also.

If you have the time (the video is only 4 and a half minutes so it is not that long), here are the goals from his first season at Madrid. There are a lot of great goals in there that have come from dribbling as well as some nice ones from long range.
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Cheers matey! I really forgotten how different he was to this new version of Ronaldo. I remember watching the game against Villareal, and then he scored that goal. Absolutely fantastic (though I think that the goal against Fulham tha he scored for us was better).

What happened to his free kicks :(? Back then he was the best in the world when it came to free kicks.
 
Raul Madrid said:
No, the team that won three international tournaments in a row playing a very dominant brand of football which teams struggled with so much that they had to completely change their tactics and gameplan just to stand a chance. That Spanish team is one of the best teams ever and anyone who has seen or knows anything of the great club and international teams of the past will testify to that (including myself as I am someone who is very interested in the history of the game).
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Easy, I was just taking the piss. That Spain team was probably the best international team I've ever seen.

Even then, you can't really compare the two. Would Spain have the same killer instinct in 50-60 games a season? I doubt it, even with all the quality players they had. The same thing can be said about Barca, in the sense if they could be decisive enough for approx. 7 games a tournament.
 
Watching both of them over the courses of their career, it's obvious that Messi is on another planet to Ronaldo.

The ability I think is unparalleled, I think he had a large dip in form last year, but individually he was still excellent, I actually believe that last year Messi was actually ahead of Ronaldo but La Decima pretty much sealed the Ballon D'or, and his start to the season with the number of goals he had gotten.

I've seen Ronaldo live on several occasions and recently I was I've always wanted to see Barcelona live so I booked tickets to see Atletico Madrid vs Barcelona, I also began collecting signed footballs shirts from a vendor two days ago and the two players I bought immediately were Messi and Maldini.

I just think in terms of ability Messi is just technically out of this world, the first touch, each dribble it's sewn to his foot. Each pass is perfectly weight, he's one of those players you sit down to watch Barcelona and you think "Something great could happen today", not even knowing what could unfold.

With Ronaldo it is about sheer goals, it's not even quality goals really, it's bulk, with Messi it's almost an artform and I think the quality of the pass from 30 yards is through the eye of a needle, and if it wasn't for wasteful finishing from Neymar this season that figure of assists would be much higher.

Ronaldos assists are squad passes, when Ronaldo retires he will be one of the greatest goalscorers of all time. Up there with Puskas, Pelé (not confusing the fact Pelé is head and shoulders above technically), Ronaldo (The Phenomenon) as a goalscorer that is.

Messi may top the pile ahead of Pelé and Maradona to me he is the greatest, yes Pelé won three world cups but alongside great players such as Garrincha. Messi I think was unfortunate that Di Maria, Aguero were injured for the bulk of the World Cup (in crucial games) and Germany was comprised of mostly Bayern Players so they had an "identity" already, but that final was decided on slim margins, the miss from Higuain was one of those.

What Gary Lineker following the Manchester City tie I think is true with Messi, "A measure of Messi's greatness is that he makes world class players like Aguero and Suarez look distinctly ordinary by comparison."
 
I think this is the 2nd time Neymar took penalty this season (1st one probably he missed)
 
Feed Me said:
Is there any chance we can get Ronaldo in on loan for the last three games?
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Why would we want to do that (if we had a chance of doing that for 3 games)? We're stumbling towards the finish line just fine...
 
Guess who got himself a sleeve tattoo and can't donate any blood for a while..

Please bite, mwahaha
 
Cal? said:
Ronaldo stays ahead with a hat-trick last night and moves onto 53 goals in 49 games...
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Messi, Barca and the fans couldn't care less about the number of individual goals as long as we win titles. He has enough goals for the season to win B'dor again, just needs trophies now to imprint his superiority.
The way things are going, I believe Suarez will be among the candidates to challenge for the position as well next season.
 
Messi's overall play is just what gives him the edge over Ronaldo. You can watch Madrid and Barcelona matches, and you'll instantly know that both players are levels ahead of anyone else in the sport - but Messi offers so much more than what statistics of goals and assists suggests.

When Barca score, Messi is usually part of that goal even if it wasn't his assist.

Ronaldo's marvellous - but Messi's talent ousts him. What's equally impressive is that Ronaldo's determination has almost filled the x-sized gap of talent between the two players.

It's crazy to think that they'll be dueling out for that CL goalscorer record until one of them retires now :drool:
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Messi's overall play is just what gives him the edge over Ronaldo. You can watch Madrid and Barcelona matches, and you'll instantly know that both players are levels ahead of anyone else in the sport - but Messi offers so much more than what statistics of goals and assists suggests.

When Barca score, Messi is usually part of that goal even if it wasn't his assist.

Ronaldo's marvellous - but Messi's talent ousts him. What's equally impressive is that Ronaldo's determination has almost filled the x-sized gap of talent between the two players.

It's crazy to think that they'll be dueling out for that CL goalscorer record until one of them retires now :drool:
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I genuinely don't think you could tell Cristiano is miles ahead of anyone else just by watching a typical game of his. By looking at his stats sure, but it's his consistent goal getting that elevates him, not his standard level.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
I genuinely don't think you could tell Cristiano is miles ahead of anyone else just by watching a typical game of his. By looking at his stats sure, but it's his consistent goal getting that elevates him, not his standard level.
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Over what period of his career would you say this criticism applies? I have not seen much of Real this season but in past seasons with Real and United his general play was top notch. "Miles ahead" is usually exaggeration.
 
adexkola said:
Over what period of his career would you say this criticism applies? I have not seen much of Real this season but in past seasons with Real and United his general play was top notch. "Miles ahead" is usually exaggeration.
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I was only talking about currently, you're right that he's definitely had brilliant general play over a lot of his career.
 
CLARiiON said:
Messi, Barca and the fans couldn't care less about the number of individual goals as long as we win titles. He has enough goals for the season to win B'dor again, just needs trophies now to imprint his superiority.
The way things are going, I believe Suarez will be among the candidates to challenge for the position as well next season.
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You could say the same about Ronaldo, who wins Balon d'or really goes down to who wins La Liga and CL
 
Bob Loblaw said:
I genuinely don't think you could tell Cristiano is miles ahead of anyone else just by watching a typical game of his. By looking at his stats sure, but it's his consistent goal getting that elevates him, not his standard level.
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Agreed. Tonight for example, you would hardly know Ronaldo is one of the best players in the world and someone with one of the best scoring rates of all time.
 
Reason why I consider Ronaldo just as a good goal-scorer, but lacks creativity. Red are inaccurate passes, orange is 'chance created'. Just count the forward passes.

cr7passyfue9.png
 
I honestly cannot separate them. Both are freaks.

Won't be that far of a stretch to say the best 2 ever either. (Though debateable.)

Lucky to have them same generation.
 
Interesting. Thought he was poor tonight, aside from getting the plaudits from itv for all his teammates lovely build up
 
Ronaldo anonymous again tonight, tap in for a goal, his method of dribbling is step over the ball several times from a standing position then pass it 3 yards.

How is that the worlds best player?

In terms of total football, passing dribbling goals there's one player who can fit that bill.

Also this year what each player contributes per 90 minutes, note this is PER 90 not total yes Messi has played more but it averages out the stats over 90 minutes, stat's really do not lie, then consider one (Messi) starts from much deeper on the pitch than the other (Ronaldo).

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Stats courtesy of Squawka.
 
CLARiiON said:
Reason why I consider Ronaldo just as a good goal-scorer, but lacks creativity. Red are inaccurate passes, orange is 'chance created'. Just count the forward passes.

cr7passyfue9.png
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People who can't this game in game out are delirious, he's essentially a poacher these days, doesn't contribute anything to his team in build up takes, it wide, does 5 step over and passes the ball backwards.

Runs into box wins a header, how is that exciting?
 
Poor performance, but got a goal. Typical Ronaldo these days.
 
Don't think he deserves to be criticized for being "just a goalscorer" after every game though. He is a pure striker/goalscorer now and that's fine.
 
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