He's the master of distorting things to suit him.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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He's the master of distorting things to suit him.
Why do you guys even care what a deluded poster says anymore?
That's what SAF actually writes in his book in the Ronaldo chapter:
"In the summer of 2012, I attended a Q&A hosted by the BBC's Dan Walker, with Peter Schmeichel and Sam Allardyce. A guy asked: 'Who's the better player, Ronaldo or Messi?'
My reply was: 'Well, Ronaldo's got a better physique than Messi, he's better in the air, he's got two feet and he's quicker. Messi has something magical about him when the ball touches his feet. It's as if it's landed on a bed of feathers. His low sense of gravity is devastating.'
Schmeichel thought Ronaldo could play in a bad team while Messi could not. That was a fair point. But Messi would still produce great moments with the ball on his toes. Peter's point was that Messi depended on Xavi and Iniesta directing the ball to him. Ronaldo is much the same in the sense that you need to keep feeding him. In all the times I'm asked I find it impossible to definitely say which is the better player because to relegate either to second place would feel wrong."
"In the summer of 2012, I attended a Q&A hosted by the BBC's Dan Walker, with Peter Schmeichel and Sam Allardyce. A guy asked: 'Who's the better player, Ronaldo or Messi?'
My reply was: 'Well, Ronaldo's got a better physique than Messi, he's better in the air, he's got two feet and he's quicker. Messi has something magical about him when the ball touches his feet. It's as if it's landed on a bed of feathers. His low sense of gravity is devastating.'
Schmeichel thought Ronaldo could play in a bad team while Messi could not. That was a fair point. But Messi would still produce great moments with the ball on his toes. Peter's point was that Messi depended on Xavi and Iniesta directing the ball to him. Ronaldo is much the same in the sense that you need to keep feeding him. In all the times I'm asked I find it impossible to definitely say which is the better player because to relegate either to second place would feel wrong."
I always find this crazy. Ronaldo is far more dependable than Messi. Nowadays Ronaldo plays almost like a poacher while Messi at the moment is playing like a trequartista and is on the center of Barca game. It is IMO just a lazy analysis.
Well it's not mine, neither SAF's plus you have to consider it was made in the summer of 2012.
It's funny because during messi's record shattering year when he scored 91 goals, people were often falling Barcelona a one man team.
Was tlkaing for opinion, obviously you were just quoting it. Even there, I think that Messi was far less dependable on servive than Ronaldo.
The last time Ronaldo wasn't very dependable on service was in 2006-2007, when he looked like a reincarnation of George Best (not as good though). In the next season, he became a better player than he was before, but he started influencing the games less and be more for goals. Then since Madrid move, he has been a glorified version of Chicharito. Probably the best poacher of all time and one of the best players ever, but not someone who doesn't completely depend on service.
Holy shit. The crap in the Best thread, and then this. To think I thought you were a good poster.
Come on, he is a poacher nowadays. I think that he is one of the best players ever, but he is completely dependable on service. Long are days when Ronaldo creates goals from nothing. I don't think that it is easy to score goals and I always had the opinion that goals are extremely important (have defended Ronaldo in this thread when he gets criticized for just scoring) but he's a player that is very dependable on goals.
Holy shit. The crap in the Best thread, and then this. To think I thought you were a good poster.
About the Best thread, it is 'crap' just because it doesn't suit your opinion. My last post there was proving my point, when I put lists made by football experts, all Ballon D'Or winners and fans, lists that completely agreed with my point of view. And well lists by Charlton and Law which again agree with me.
You said he was a poacher since he moved to Madrid, not just recently, and 07-08 at United was only about goals. You are spouting nonsense.
Poacher won't provide 20+ assists a season... but I get what you mean. His game has been much more about scoring goals than anything else.
And he has been a poacher since he has gone to Madrid.
I said that in 2007-2008 he started influencing games less and be more for the goals. Which I think is true.
And you couldn't be more wrong, especially poacher since he went there. His game has changed over time, which is logical. To call him a poacher since her moved there is silly.
He wasn't a poacher in 09/10 tbf. He was much more entertaining to watch back then.
In his first season at Madrid he created plenty of chances for himself and his dribbling was very good. 09/10 contained lots of goals that came from dribbles. It was when Mourinho came to the club that he seemed to reduce the amount he took on players, perhaps in a bid to lessen the strain on his body so that he can play more matches throughout the season (when Mourinho came to the club the number of matches the team played in a season increased greatly due to Madrid going much further in both the CL and the Copa) as well as Madrid playing very fast, counter-attacking football under Mourinho and he probably wanted players to release the ball quickly rather than attempt to take on other players so as to not slow down the counter-attacks.
He still dribbles occasionally, I should add. This season from what I can remember, his goal vs Levante, his assist for Benzema vs Malaga and his goal vs Rayo (yeah the keeper made a mess of it and it is not the most aesthetically pleasing goal but Ronaldo still had to cut in across the defender to get his shot off) and his assist for Marcelo against Schalke came from beating people. There were other occasions where he went on a good run but nothing came from it in the end, but yeah, I agree that I would like to see him dribble more also.
If you have the time (the video is only 4 and a half minutes so it is not that long), here are the goals from his first season at Madrid. There are a lot of great goals in there that have come from dribbling as well as some nice ones from long range.
In that case since he's not played against Ronaldo, the comment has very little to do with the topic.
right ...
My words: "He qualified [...] his statements through his own personal context"
His words: “I was lucky enough to play with Zinedine Zidane, Ronaldo, Luis Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo... But Messi is different."
You can certainly question his opinion, but the relevancy of it to this topic...? Really?
My god. All cal had to say was that Raul's opinion is not the last word. But I guess he can't let a single person on earth believe Messi > Ronaldo?
I have watched Barca for years, for anyone to say that without Xavi and Iniesta Messi would not be that good has obviously never properly analised Messi's game.
To counter that argument i always just said imagine Barca without Messi? He is the reason Barca were able to play that patient slow build up game as in the heat of the moment he was able to just flick a switch and explode with a moment of magic.
Without him they would have struggled to score any where close to the amount of goals they scored. His influence on Barcelona is probably not as Big as Maradonna's influence on Napoli or Argentina in his day but he has been carrying Barca for several years.
The one thing i would say when comparing Messi and Ronaldo is that for Ronaldo to look good and get motm he has to score. Messi on the other hand doesn't need to score goals to be noticed or get praise.
Ronaldo is a very effective striker but his game has regressed over the last couple of years. He has just made his game all about being in the box at the right time now or countering very quickly to run onto a pass high up the pitch.
His influence over 90 minutes is nothing compared to Messi and for me to be a great player if your influence is severely behind your competitor Then you cant be the best player in the world.
Ronaldo is a great goal scorer i dont think anyone can deny that, but he wouldn't be in my top 10 players that i have watched.
Every time i watch Messi my jaw is just left hanging as some of his touches, passing and dribbling is just god like. I was a bit disappointed with him in the world cup as he clearly didn't look like he was playing any where near to 100%.
To counter that argument i always just said imagine Barca without Messi? He is the reason Barca were able to play that patient slow build up game as in the heat of the moment he was able to just flick a switch and explode with a moment of magic.
Without him they would have struggled to score any where close to the amount of goals they scored. His influence on Barcelona is probably not as Big as Maradonna's influence on Napoli or Argentina in his day but he has been carrying Barca for several years.
The one thing i would say when comparing Messi and Ronaldo is that for Ronaldo to look good and get motm he has to score. Messi on the other hand doesn't need to score goals to be noticed or get praise.
Ronaldo is a very effective striker but his game has regressed over the last couple of years. He has just made his game all about being in the box at the right time now or countering very quickly to run onto a pass high up the pitch.
His influence over 90 minutes is nothing compared to Messi and for me to be a great player if your influence is severely behind your competitor Then you cant be the best player in the world.
Ronaldo is a great goal scorer i dont think anyone can deny that, but he wouldn't be in my top 10 players that i have watched.
Every time i watch Messi my jaw is just left hanging as some of his touches, passing and dribbling is just god like. I was a bit disappointed with him in the world cup as he clearly didn't look like he was playing any where near to 100%.
Feck, i forgot about his first year. He was still more so the United Ronaldo back then. A good mix of varied magic from stepover goals, fk goals, headers etc. Probably his last year before he turned into a goal machine.
I do question his opinion, hence my initial point about Kahn. During his career he's faced Schmeichel, Buffon and played with Casillas for years, yet he chooses Kahn?
I would also like to see short reel of Ronaldo's every match like @Cait Sith does for Messi. Those highlights (not necessarily just goals) tell you how well Messi has been playing the whole season. If anyone wants to check, watch out for Cait Sith's posts in Messi performance thread.
Raul shouldn´t have said that. I don´t know how is the sentence in english but in spanish would be something like "do not throw stones to your own roof" .
Yes.
Kahn was a brilliant brilliant keeper.
is Ronaldo Real Madrid now?He should have appointed someone of his generation, Zidane or Ronaldo the fat .
Surely many Cristiano team mates think Messi is slightly better but it makes no sense to laud the opponent when his rival is the main star of your team.
Why? He clearly thinks Messi is in a different class. It's good to see honesty.
Your second sentence I agree with. But raul is no longer playing. He doesn't have to worry about upsetting his team mate.
I remember Rooney used to say Messi is the best... but he did vote for Ronaldo last year or so.
Ronaldo's form turned to shite when Real Madrid were playing shite earlier this year, his form improved when James came back and Madrid improved. (though it can be argued he's still been very average) Barca play shite when Messi is shite, the difference. Ronaldo can't influence games like Messi can, he can't glide past players as easily as Messi can, he can't set up his team-mates as well as Messi can, can't dictate the midfield like Messi can. As incredible as Ronaldo is, he relies so heavily on his team mates, he is nothing more than a goal-scoring machine. Messi is much more. Anyone who thinks Ronaldo is better is deluded imo, it's crazy to think Messi playing in midfield can match Ronaldo for productivity who plays as a left forward who offers nearly nothing defensively.
With Messi we have the world's best dribbler, passer and finisher. To be fair it's as if sometimes most Ronaldo fan bois know who the better of the two is but refuse to accept it cause of their obsession for CR. Both incredible players but one midget is just on a different level. When both are on form and fully fit and Messi isn't having off-field issues with the tax department and a manager who's half dead, Messi takes it every time for me.
With Messi we have the world's best dribbler, passer and finisher. To be fair it's as if sometimes most Ronaldo fan bois know who the better of the two is but refuse to accept it cause of their obsession for CR. Both incredible players but one midget is just on a different level. When both are on form and fully fit and Messi isn't having off-field issues with the tax department and a manager who's half dead, Messi takes it every time for me.
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You mean like Spain, who didn't half do too bad?
The team that embarrassed the nation at the WC?
No, the team that won three international tournaments in a row playing a very dominant brand of football which teams struggled with so much that they had to completely change their tactics and gameplan just to stand a chance. That Spanish team is one of the best teams ever and anyone who has seen or knows anything of the great club and international teams of the past will testify to that (including myself as I am someone who is very interested in the history of the game).
So you actually agree with the original poster who compared them to Barca without Messi?
I wasn't responding to him. I was responding to someone who was referring to Spain's lowest point in response to someone saying that Spain were successful. The person I replied to was responding to VanGaalEra who had basically said that Spain were a successful team ("You mean like Spain, who didn't half do too bad?") by bringing up their worst tournament in the last few years as if it somehow disproved what VanGaalEra had said. If you are going to talk about Spain and use them in any argument, be it where they rank amongst great historical teams or as an example of what Barcelona would be like without Messi, then you would talk about them in their peak which was from 2008-12. I had no interest in responding to original point raised by Vialli_92 who said that Barca would score less without Messi. I was only interested in responding to someone who thought that Spain's last tournament disproved what VanGaalEra said which was basically that Spain were a successful team ("You mean like Spain, who didn't half do too bad?"). The post that I was responding to didn't really have anything to do with the original point either.
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spain is barca, now?
i imagine that your logic, somehow, would not aply to ronaldo, right?
What's so surprising about that? Bayern was the only team that regularly beat the Madrid side that won 3 CLs in 5 years and the standout Bayern player during those years was Oliver Kahn followed by Effenberg. We played Real 8 times between 99 and 02 in the CL, we won 6 games and lost 2 out of them and in all of them Kahn was absolutely incredible and denied Real countless goals. It makes perfect sense, that Kahn was the goalkeeper that scared Raul more than any other.
And it's not like Kahn was some average goalkeeper who just happen to have a few great games against Real. He's often seen as one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time and the only goalkeeper who finished twice in the top 3 at the Ballon d'Or. There's really nothing controversial about Raul's statement at all.
Calm down, it was a simple question. That's what he implied by bringing up Spain, or why would he when we're talking about Barca minus Messi?!
You could've just said no.
I am calm. I only smashed a few ornaments and flung my chair across the room (breaking my TV in the process) which is nothing I don't do on a regular basis anyway.
Calm down, it was a simple question. That's what he implied by bringing up Spain, or why would he when we're talking about Barca minus Messi?!
You could've just said no.
Bad jokes aside, I just wanted to explain what I meant and I do not think that using Spain from the last tournament is the best example to use in most discussions regarding them. I did not see how the post I was replying to was pertinent to the period that was being referred to in the comment he was responding to (which was a comment about Spain's successful period). VanGaalEra was talking about Spain's successful period and not their last tournament, but the poster I was responding to brought up their last tournament which was very bad, despite the fact that VanGaalEra was obviously talking about the period from 2008-12.
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