Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Cal? said:
There we go again, the Messi fans holding their opinion as gospel.
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From Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/com...rguson_messi_is_a_better_player_than/ef4yek1/
unevenermink 513 points 11 hours ago

Whilst those things are true, when taken as a package Messi's skill set is far superior.

u/futb0l made a very good comparison between him and Ronaldo's statistics in a different thread which illustrated this point.

"In his career (club + country) Messi has only 31 fewer goals than Ronaldo while being 2.5 years younger and playing 152 fewer games

Also, since whoscored.com started keeping track of stats in 2009, here are some stats for club + country:


Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini is on another planet."
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
If you want to discuss who is better by debating team trophies then don’t pick and choose.

Ronaldo won 2 La Liga titles in 9 years at Real Madrid. Messi won 6 in that time.

Ronaldo won 2 Copa Del Rey titles in 9 years. Messi won 5 in that time.

Messi has scored the same amount of goals as Ronaldo in their careers but has done so in roughly 100 less games. Ronaldo is seen as one of the best ever due to his goal scoring, yet Messi is a better goal scorer.

Not including the CL in 2006 because Messi barely featured. Then Ronaldo has 5 CL titles and Messi has 3.

Messi has far more team trophies than Ronaldo, which is what your argument is based on.

You are saying that Ronaldo is the better player because he performed better in roughly 10 more CL games.

Well Messi performed better in a hell of a lot more domestic games in their careers.
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He'll be claiming Liverpool are a greater club than United soon as they've won more European Cups....
 
GifLord said:
From Reddit
unevenermink 513 points 11 hours ago

Whilst those things are true, when taken as a package Messi's skill set is far superior.

u/futb0l made a very good comparison between him and Ronaldo's statistics in a different thread which illustrated this point.

"In his career (club + country) Messi has only 31 fewer goals than Ronaldo while being 2.5 years younger and playing 152 fewer games

Also, since whoscored.com started keeping track of stats in 2009, here are some stats for club + country:


Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini is on another planet."
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:lol: Seriously?

So what if Ronaldo took more shots? If he shoots from 25 yards and misses, whilst Messi tries to dribble from 25 yards and gets tackled, the end result is losing possession to the opposition.

Messi plays wherever he likes with Barca and makes many more short passes, it's little wonder he has a better percentage.

Dribbles? As pointed out above, dribbles are utterly useless unless they result in goals.
 
Pink Moon said:
They've reached the final since then though...

And you're right. No Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio or Pogba. Just bums like Dybala, Pjanic, Mandzukic, Douglas Costa, Chiellini, Bonucci, Alex Sandro, Cancelo et al.

I'm not saying he deserves no praise if they win. I'm saying that winning the CL with this Juventus side isn't such an incredible individual achievement but it will no doubt take on Maradona 86 levels of mystical crap.

Barcelona have a much better squad? Highly debatable. Juventus' defence is far better and their midfield is no worse either. You could've at least used City as your example.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

It's incredible, as soon as Ronaldo plays for someone their players all become fantastic. When Messi plays everyone around him is crap. Dybala went from overrated in the summer, to a great teammate a few weeks later. The likes of Di Maria and Higuain were exactly the same too.

How in the world is Juve's defense better than Barcelona's? Bonucci would be Barcelona's fourth centreback... Chiellini is great but he can barely run anymore. Nevermind actually believing the midfield is on the same level rather than two or three levels below. Juve are starting Bentancur ffs.

Juve have a very good team, top 5 in the world. But winning the Champions League with Juventus would be a MUCH bigger achievement than winning it with this Barcelona team and anyone who argues otherwise is either biased or an idiot.
 
Schneckerl said:
What is this based on exactly? Certainly not his NT performances. Unfortunatly cheering from the sideline isnt enough for Argentina to win a final.
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We cannot never know these things, but it is quite likely IMO. One thing that Ronaldo has shown on his career is that he is able to play on different styles, with different players. Be it Rooney, Benzema, Nani, Dybala etc. For whatever reasons, Messi has difficulties playing with the likes of Icardi, Dybala, Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria etc for Argentina, I think that Ronaldo would have shined there.

I have no doubt that Messi had a higher peak, but Ronaldo is definitely the more versatile player, and in non-perfect circumstances (like for NT when you don't train with other players for years like you do on a single club), I think that there is quite a lot of evidence that Ronaldo does better.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
If you want to discuss who is better by debating team trophies then don’t pick and choose.

Ronaldo won 2 La Liga titles in 9 years at Real Madrid. Messi won 6 in that time.

Ronaldo won 2 Copa Del Rey titles in 9 years. Messi won 5 in that time.

Messi has scored the same amount of goals as Ronaldo in their careers but has done so in roughly 100 less games. Ronaldo is seen as one of the best ever due to his goal scoring, yet Messi is a better goal scorer.

Not including the CL in 2006 because Messi barely featured. Then Ronaldo has 5 CL titles and Messi has 3.

Messi has far more team trophies than Ronaldo, which is what your argument is based on.

You are saying that Ronaldo is the better player because he performed better in roughly 10 more CL games.

Well Messi performed better in a hell of a lot more domestic games in their careers.
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I'm sure Barcelona fans are delighted to have won those La Liga titles and Copa Del Rey titles while having their best decade ever overshadowed by Cristiano Ronaldo's Real Madrid.

If Ronaldo had Messi's teammates throughout his career, he'd have won twice as much what he's won.

It's not the fact that Ronaldo's won more than Messi that's impressive, it's the fact he's had to do it next to worse teammates and had a much bigger role in those titles.

But who cares about winning and the impact a player has on it? Maybe having 10 key passes in a 9-1 home win over Eibar is what's really important.
 
Pass and Move said:
He'll be claiming Liverpool are a greater club than United soon as they've won more European Cups....
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I’d have more European Cups any day of the week to be honest.

On a separate note, this is a MUFC based forum, so any debate about who is the best player out of Messi and Ronaldo is pointless.

Outside of Manchester, Portugal and Madrid, Messi outshines him in everyone’s eyes, and history will reflect it.
 
Obi-Red-Kenobi said:
I’d have more European Cups any day of the week to be honest.

On a separate note, this is a MUFC based forum, so any debate about who is the best player out of Messi and Ronaldo is pointless.

Outside of Manchester, Portugal and Madrid, Messi outshines him in everyone’s eyes, and history will reflect it.
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Except the eyes of international football captains all across the world who literally voted him better than Messi 5 times back when Ballon D'or was decided by them...but yah lets ignore that
 
Been watching this thread from afar for a while, some of the arguments I've seen are hilarious. Ronaldo is as good as Messi because Ronaldo makes good runs, or something...?

Honestly Messi is twice the player Ronaldo is, and comparing their performances week in, week out, there shouldn't really even be an argument. Messi does things Ronaldo could only dream of doing, every week, every game.
 
Peyroteo said:
I'm sure Barcelona fans are delighted to have won those La Liga titles and Copa Del Rey titles while having their best decade ever overshadowed by Cristiano Ronaldo's Real Madrid.

If Ronaldo had Messi's teammates throughout his career, he'd have won twice as much what he's won.

It's not the fact that Ronaldo's won more than Messi that's impressive, it's the fact he's had to do it next to worse teammates and had a much bigger role in those titles.

But who cares about winning and the impact a player has on it? Maybe having 10 key passes in a 9-1 home win over Eibar is what's really important.
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No offence, but your argument is plainly unfounded and pointless. You can’t say that Barcelona were ‘overshadowed’ by Madrid, and then completely contradict yourself by then saying if Ronaldo played in the Barca team he would have won twice as much. Do you not see that your paradoxing your very point?

Messi won more to be year, based on the previous posters time and effort in looking at the facts. Who won more is not really the point though. It’s about who the best player is that matters. George Best won less than Butt for instance.
 
Obi-Red-Kenobi said:
I’d have more European Cups any day of the week to be honest.

On a separate note, this is a MUFC based forum, so any debate about who is the best player out of Messi and Ronaldo is pointless.

Outside of Manchester, Portugal and Madrid, Messi outshines him in everyone’s eyes, and history will reflect it.
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Ronaldo won 3 times FIFA Ballon D'Or (voted from journos, NT captains and NT managers) and twice each Ballon D'Or (voted from journos) and FIFA award (voted from NT captains and NT managers).

Saying repeatedly that outside of Manchester, Portugal and Madrid, people are unanimous that Messi was the better player is bullshit.

Even on http://messivsronaldo.net/all-time-stats/ , it is 62-32 (with over 600k votes). While Messi has a (big) advantage, it is hardly unanimous as some people like to claim.
 
shamans said:
Except the eyes of international football captains all across the world who literally voted him better than Messi 5 times back when Ballon D'or was decided by them...but yah lets ignore that
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shamans said:
Except the eyes of international football captains all across the world who literally voted him better than Messi 5 times back when Ballon D'or was decided by them...but yah lets ignore that
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The Balon D’or was not just decided by those in football, but I’m sure you know that. Ronaldo has had more successful seasons, at times, and likewise Messi did at other times. Outside of those places, in a career sense, and not an individual season sense, I stand by what I said.

Revan, if you correctly read my post, I said in it that that history will determine this. I know in some years, as said above, that Ronaldo may have had more successful seasons. Likewise, in other years, Messi did, as you will know from the European Cup final goals. History is in the future, and in the future, I stand by my opinion that Messi will be determined by those, who are not blatantly biased, like many on here, to be the better player.
 
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Obi-Red-Kenobi said:
No offence, but your argument is plainly unfounded and pointless. You can’t say that Barcelona were ‘overshadowed’ by Madrid, and then completely contradict yourself by then saying if Ronaldo played in the Barca team he would have won twice as much. Do you not see that your paradoxing your very point?
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No. Take Messi and Ronaldo out of those teams and it's obvious to see during Ronaldo's time there who had the best team around them.

The fact that things turned out the way they turned out makes Barcelona fans sick to their stomach.

Obi-Red-Kenobi said:
Messi won more to be year, based on the previous posters time and effort in looking at the facts. Who won more is not really the point though. It’s about who the best player is that matters. George Best won less than Butt for instance.
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If Michael Jordan had won feck all playing exactly the same way, he wouldn't be considered half the player he is. All it took was missing a few extra shots and instead of being the greatest basketball player ever with 6 championships, he'd be a great player with 3. Winning matters, it's the whole point of it.

Ronaldo didn't win what he's won by being Nicky Butt. It's not about player's A trophy cabinet bieng better than player B's so therefore player A is better than player B, that's obviously stupid. You take into account the circumstances of it all.

Messi having only played in 3 Champions League finals in all of his career with the team he's had around him throughout and having won nothing for a country that has 2 World Cups and 14 Copa Americas to their name is rightfully held against him. You can't just pretend it doesn't and you can't just pretend he's having 10/10 performances every time while his team lets him down because it obviously hasn't been the case.
 
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L
Obi-Red-Kenobi said:
The Balon D’or was not just decided by those in football, but I’m sure you know that. Ronaldo has had more successful seasons, at times, and likewise Messi did at other times. Outside of those places, in a career sense, and not an individual season sense, I stand by what I said.

Revan, if you correctly read my post, I said in it that that history will determine this. I know in some years, as said above, that Ronaldo may have had more successful seasons. Likewise, in other years, Messi did, as you will know from the European Cup final goals. History is in the future, and in the future, I stand by my opinion that Messi will be determined by those, who are not blatantly biased, like many on here, to be the better player.
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Ah the old criteria shifts.

"No one outside of United would ever rate Ronaldo higher"

"But people have. Look"

"I meant on an individual level not career level"

?????
 
Peyroteo said:
If Michael Jordan had won feck all playing exactly the same way, he wouldn't be considered half the player he is. Winning matters, it's the whole point of it.
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Reading the thread looks like Messi has won feck all whilst Cristiano swept everything in sight.

Messi won 9 titles, 4 CL(he still played 6 games in 05-06, despite in inferior role), 6 CdR.

Cristiano won 5 titles, 5 CL, 5 domestic cups (including League Cup as well).

Looking at those trophy cabinets I'll easily take Messi's considering he has double the league titles..
 
Obi-Red-Kenobi said:
I’d have more European Cups any day of the week to be honest.

On a separate note, this is a MUFC based forum, so any debate about who is the best player out of Messi and Ronaldo is pointless.

Outside of Manchester, Portugal and Madrid, Messi outshines him in everyone’s eyes, and history will reflect it.
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Except for the fact the football world voted Ronaldo the better player 7 times out of the last 12 (I'll ignore 2006 as Messi wasn't established)
 
Enigma_87 said:
Reading the thread looks like Messi has won feck all whilst Cristiano swept everything in sight.

Messi won 9 titles, 4 CL(he still played 6 games in 05-06, despite in inferior role), 6 CdR.

Cristiano won 5 titles, 5 CL, 5 domestic cups (including League Cup as well).

Looking at those trophy cabinets I'll easily take Messi's considering he has double the league titles..
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Ronaldo has also an European Cup. Messi's last game in his first UCL triumph was on 1/8th of final, and he won 2 titles in a bit-part role (first with 7 matches, second with 17 matches). I know that titles count, but those titles are neas as relevant as Kuzczak and Michael Owen titles with us.

In those that they really contributed a lot, Messi, is 0 - 3 - 7 - 6 while Ronaldo is 1 - 5 - 5 - 5. Both have 16, but Ronaldo has more quality trophies (1 International + 2 UCL vs 2 La Liga and 1 CDL). I would say that it is advantage Ronaldo here, especially considering that he won them with 4 teams unlike Messi who won them all with a team which was built to get the best out of him.
 
Peyroteo said:
I'm sure Barcelona fans are delighted to have won those La Liga titles and Copa Del Rey titles while having their best decade ever overshadowed by Cristiano Ronaldo's Real Madrid.

If Ronaldo had Messi's teammates throughout his career, he'd have won twice as much what he's won.

It's not the fact that Ronaldo's won more than Messi that's impressive, it's the fact he's had to do it next to worse teammates and had a much bigger role in those titles.

But who cares about winning and the impact a player has on it? Maybe having 10 key passes in a 9-1 home win over Eibar is what's really important.
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The funny thing is that noone cared that Barc won the league and Copa. Even their own fans would have taken winning the CL over the league cup double. Madrid won 3 in a row is bigger than anything Barcelona ever did in the best period of their history and CRonaldo was at the centre of it.

Messi can't play with Dybala, Higuain, Aguero and everyone else. Meanwhile Ronaldo didn't hinder Higuain, Dybala loves playing with him. There is always an excuse for Messi. Sabella, Tata, Sampaoli etc all can't get anyone to play well with Messi.

Put Ronaldo in any team and he delivers. Messi needs the whole team streamlined for him to deliver. Can you imagine Messi in Juve? They would have to ship off Dybala, Mandzukic and half their attackers.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Reading the thread looks like Messi has won feck all whilst Cristiano swept everything in sight.

Messi won 9 titles, 4 CL(he still played 6 games in 05-06, despite in inferior role), 6 CdR.

Cristiano won 5 titles, 5 CL, 5 domestic cups (including League Cup as well).

Looking at those trophy cabinets I'll easily take Messi's considering he has double the league titles..
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Messi played a grand total of 7 minutes for his first league title, 915 minutes for his second. Didn't play past the round of 16 for his first Champions League...

Like I said, it's not about the trophy cabinet. It's about the impact they've had on their teams winning it. Ronaldo winning the Serie A with Juve won't be the same as that 2011/12 La Liga title over the best team ever or his Premier League titles with United for example. You have to put things into perspective and take everything into account.

Ronaldo's played a big part in every big trophy he's won.
 
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Peyroteo said:
Messi played a grand total of 7 minutes for his first league title, 915 minutes for his second. Didn't play past the round of 16 for his first Champions League...

Like I said, it's not about the trophy cabinet. It's about the impact they've had on their teams winning it.
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You have just answered your own question there. I think Bale was largely responsible for Madrid winning a couple of those Champions League finals. Take off your rose tinted specs and bow down to the f*kin greatest player of all time in Messi. That moment where he held up his shirt at the Madrid stadium was one of the greatest moments I have ever seen.
 
Think a small factor for the neutrals might also be that Ronaldo comes across as a narcisistic bellend with the likability of an ulcer, whereas Messi doesnt really have a personality at all, making him harder to really dislike.

Robben is better than both though.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Think a small factor for the neutrals might also be that Ronaldo comes across as a narcisistic bellend with the likability of an ulcer, whereas Messi doesnt really have a personality at all, making him harder to really dislike.

Robben is better than both though.
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You are not also referring to the 'alleged rape' allegations hanging over his character as well are you.
Ability - Messi
Personality - Messi
 
red4ever 79 said:
You are not also referring to the 'alleged rape' allegations hanging over his character as well are you.
Ability - Messi
Personality - Messi
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Nah, as long as there's no proof that shouldnt be a factor. Thing is, Ronaldo is quite polarizing, you like him or hate him, whereas Messi, he's just bland. I'm not sure he can even talk.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Nah, as long as there's no proof that shouldnt be a factor. Thing is, Ronaldo is quite polarizing, you like him or hate him, whereas Messi, he's just bland. I'm not sure he can even talk.
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I agree. Although what swings it for in terms of personality are the number of times Ronaldo hasnt celebrated with his team mates when someone else has scored or when he has complained because he didnt receive the ball. Yet you will have his fans on here that will say it is because he is a winner, when actually it just means he is a t*sser. However even from an ability point of view, Messi is head and shoulders above him and above everyone else.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Reading the thread looks like Messi has won feck all whilst Cristiano swept everything in sight.

Messi won 9 titles, 4 CL(he still played 6 games in 05-06, despite in inferior role), 6 CdR.

Cristiano won 5 titles, 5 CL, 5 domestic cups (including League Cup as well).

Looking at those trophy cabinets I'll easily take Messi's considering he has double the league titles..
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The 3 in a row in the modern format won't be replicated imo and he was a massive part of that, that makes up the small gap there is imo.
 
red4ever 79 said:
You have just answered your own question there. I think Bale was largely responsible for Madrid winning a couple of those Champions League finals. Take off your rose tinted specs and bow down to the f*kin greatest player of all time in Messi. That moment where he held up his shirt at the Madrid stadium was one of the greatest moments I have ever seen.
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That was just a shit version of the Calma goal at the Camp Nou ;)

The few weeks after that where Ronaldo made that moment completely irrelevant were better.
 
red4ever 79 said:
I agree. Although what swings it for in terms of personality are the number of times Ronaldo hasnt celebrated with his team mates when someone else has scored or when he has complained because he didnt receive the ball. Yet you will have his fans on here that will say it is because he is a winner, when actually it just means he is a t*sser. However even from an ability point of view, Messi is head and shoulders above him and above everyone else.
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I'm not actually saying Messi's is better to be honest. I dont really care for either player, bit Ronaldo is at least interesting albeit in a cringe way.
 
red4ever 79 said:
I agree. Although what swings it for in terms of personality are the number of times Ronaldo hasnt celebrated with his team mates when someone else has scored or when he has complained because he didnt receive the ball. Yet you will have his fans on here that will say it is because he is a winner, when actually it just means he is a t*sser. However even from an ability point of view, Messi is head and shoulders above him and above everyone else.
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Such an immature myth.

Explain to me how Ronaldo is such a t*sser as you put it but you never hear teammates talk about it , ever, no matter where he's been? They have nothing but good things to say.

Have you seen how Messi reacts when no one passes the ball to him? I don't blame him either. Players like him and Ronaldo are on another universe and i get why they'd be pissed.

What really annoys me about Messi is his pseudo "humble guy" image. Ronaldo's emotions and personality is for everyone to see. Messi is hidden. There's nothing wrong with either it's just what you prefer and I prefer Mohammad Ali/Ronaldo/Paul Pogba type personalities.
 
Cal? said:
There we go again, the Messi fans holding their opinion as gospel.
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The same gospel as saying only UCL and an Euro final were you barely play are the defining things to put a player career above another one.

Peyroteo said:
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

It's incredible, as soon as Ronaldo plays for someone their players all become fantastic. When Messi plays everyone around him is crap. Dybala went from overrated in the summer, to a great teammate a few weeks later. The likes of Di Maria and Higuain were exactly the same too.

How in the world is Juve's defense better than Barcelona's? Bonucci would be Barcelona's fourth centreback... Chiellini is great but he can barely run anymore. Nevermind actually believing the midfield is on the same level rather than two or three levels below. Juve are starting Bentancur ffs.

Juve have a very good team, top 5 in the world. But winning the Champions League with Juventus would be a MUCH bigger achievement than winning it with this Barcelona team and anyone who argues otherwise is either biased or an idiot.
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Twist it more for the drama.

Lenglet and Bonucci have moved for the same fees, Cancelo runs circles around Semedo and probably Sergi Roberto too, and I believe Alex Sandro is a better defender than Alba. If you want to talk about players that can barely run Anymore, Chiellini and Pique share the same wheelchair, now the problem is one usually defends on his area and the other 20 meters forward. Umtiti is the only player far superior to any Juve alternative.

Our best defenders are Busquets, Rakitic, Arthur and Leo with the ball. But if Juve replicate the Roma formula (6 players flooding our midfield, with 2cb's marking Suarez and 2 strikers for long balls) then is just a battle of Pique/Umtiti (hopefully) vs Ronaldo and Mandzukic on one side, and Suarez vs Bonucci, Chiellini or Rugani on the other.

I kinda know who wins that battle. As Juve did two years ago in the 3-0 game and the 0-0. Every big game in our last 3 seasons looks exactly the same, but Juve are better geared for that battle this year with Ronaldo.

If both teams cross their paths, I'd say the question is who's going to help his team more, Ronaldo for Juve's style or Arthur/Dembele for ours?. If we talk about general level, any manager at that stage knows how to suffocate our midfield, has been happening since Xavi's decline and we only managed to solve it for half a season with the MSN and counters, it's been our achilles heel for years.
 
Peyroteo said:
Messi played a grand total of 7 minutes for his first league title, 915 minutes for his second. Didn't play past the round of 16 for his first Champions League...

Like I said, it's not about the trophy cabinet. It's about the impact they've had on their teams winning it. Ronaldo winning the Serie A with Juve won't be the same as that 2011/12 La Liga title over the best team ever or his Premier League titles with United for example. You have to put things into perspective and take everything into account.

Ronaldo's played a big part in every big trophy he's won.
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Individually Messi's impact is bigger than anything Cristiano could muster for his teams. Especially if you consider all facets of the game.

Even if we disregard 1 CL(in terms of importance) and 1 La Liga title, it still looks more impressive than Ronaldo's title haul.

915 minutes aren't really that little when you consider he has featured nearly in half of the games that season.

2mufc0 said:
The 3 in a row in the modern format won't be replicated imo and he was a massive part of that, that makes up the small gap there is imo.
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4 league titles isn't really a small gap.

Barca are on their way of 8th title in 11 seasons. Something that was done only by Real in the 60's in the big leagues. Messi can easily better that next year and has also played a massive part in it.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Reading the thread looks like Messi has won feck all whilst Cristiano swept everything in sight.

Messi won 9 titles, 4 CL(he still played 6 games in 05-06, despite in inferior role), 6 CdR.

Cristiano won 5 titles, 5 CL, 5 domestic cups (including League Cup as well).

Looking at those trophy cabinets I'll easily take Messi's considering he has double the league titles..
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It's because Messi fans that really dislike Ronaldo go out of their way to make the trophies Ronaldo has won seem nothing. "It was all Modric. Ramos scored the winner. Ballon D'ors are fake" and when you point out the importance of these trophies it goes back to "Huh?! So you're talking as if Messi hasn't won trophies!"

Chose your criteria. Are you going to judge a player by what they've won, what they do for the team, or ability to dribble past a player. For each person this criteria changes and based on that you will have a different ATG (all time great)
 
Enigma_87 said:
Individually Messi's impact is bigger than anything Cristiano could muster for his teams. Especially if you consider all facets of the game.

Even if we disregard 1 CL(in terms of importance) and 1 La Liga title, it still looks more impressive than Ronaldo's title haul.

915 minutes aren't really that little when you consider he has featured nearly in half of the games that season.



4 league titles isn't really a small gap.

Barca are on their way of 8th title in 11 seasons. Something that was done only by Real in the 60's in the big leagues. Messi can easily better that next year and has also played a massive part in it.
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Messi has impacted Argentina negatively if anything.
 
If Ronaldo wins the Euro with his national team: Doesn't count for anything. Was all his teammates.

If Messi has a league titles tally lead over Ronaldo in La Liga: Teammates don't matter. Was all Messi bruv.
 
shamans said:
It's because Messi fans that really dislike Ronaldo go out of their way to make the trophies Ronaldo has won seem nothing. "It was all Modric. Ramos scored the winner. Ballon D'ors are fake" and when you point out the importance of these trophies it goes back to "Huh?! So you're talking as if Messi hasn't won trophies!"

Chose your criteria. Are you going to judge a player by what they've won, what they do for the team, or ability to dribble past a player. For each person this criteria changes and based on that you will have a different ATG (all time great)
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That's fair. I rate Messi's individual impact in a team much higher than Ronaldo's who is more of a goalscorer at Real. Doesn't mean I undermine what he has done or that he isn't one of the best that played the game, just different goalposts.

As an individual Messi's better, to me. Trophy cabinets are difficult to use as an argument as Maradona for example lacks them, yet you would easily argue that he was one of the GOAT's.
 
shamans said:
Messi has impacted Argentina negatively if anything.
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Disagree there. Both have under performed for their national sides. If you are to use Ronaldo's impact at the EURO, you can easily compare it to Messi's WC run or 3 Copa finals.

Neither have big impact on their greatness (between each other) but a big one compared to the other greats - Pele, Maradona, etc...
 
Enigma_87 said:
Individually Messi's impact is bigger than anything Cristiano could muster for his teams. Especially if you consider all facets of the game.

Even if we disregard 1 CL(in terms of importance) and 1 La Liga title, it still looks more impressive than Ronaldo's title haul.

915 minutes aren't really that little when you consider he has featured nearly in half of the games that season.



4 league titles isn't really a small gap.

Barca are on their way of 8th title in 11 seasons. Something that was done only by Real in the 60's in the big leagues. Messi can easily better that next year and has also played a massive part in it.
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I don't think winning a 2 horse race league is comparable to 3 back to back CL's. Ronaldo is also going to win 3 titles in 3 different countries.

Also disagree about Messi's individual impact, for me his reputation has taken a massive hit since 2015, he's gone missing in some of the biggest games for his club and country while Ronaldo just keeps delivering.
 
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