I thought this was a joke when it was first mentioned.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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I thought this was a joke when it was first mentioned.
Not to mention someone who took retirement after failing regularly for NT.
Ronaldo was more fun to watch in his United days, though he's not as fun as Messi now... besides, Messi is not my go-to guy if I want to reminisce on beautiful play, because if I want that, I know the players I'd watch on YouTube, Messi isn't one of them.
Ronaldo is always better to me...maybe, if he played in a heavily possession based team, he would have topped the charts in some of these miniature stats like key passes, chances created, etc...all these don't take anything away from him, he'll always be better than Messi
I have sympathy for the Ronaldo argument because for his entire club career Messi has played in a system built around his talents and outside of that he has struggled (comparatively). I would have loved Messi to take on the challenge of playing elsewhere to see whether he'd reach the same heights, but I also can't hold it against him that he didn't. For me he's proven himself already and if I was him I would see no reason to uproot my entire life and move to a city, work environment etc. I might enjoy less to prove a point to fans on football forums.
The fact that the performances which show Messi as the greatest of this era, and perhaps of all time, have come for a team built to play to his strengths, doesn't mean he didn't make those performances or take anything away from them.
I think Ronaldo has had a couple of seasons in the last 10 years where he's matched or slightly outperformed Messi in terms of contributions toward his club's success. I don't think he's ever had a season as good as Messi's best and I think in at least 8 of the last 10 seasons Messi has been comfortably better by every metric.
EDIT: One thing I will say is that I think arguably Messi hasn't played to his full potential. If he had Ronaldo's attitude and drive alongside his own talent I think Barca and Argentina would have a few more trophies in their cabinets and Messi would have cleaned house with Balon d'Ors for the last decade.
The fact that the performances which show Messi as the greatest of this era, and perhaps of all time, have come for a team built to play to his strengths, doesn't mean he didn't make those performances or take anything away from them.
I think Ronaldo has had a couple of seasons in the last 10 years where he's matched or slightly outperformed Messi in terms of contributions toward his club's success. I don't think he's ever had a season as good as Messi's best and I think in at least 8 of the last 10 seasons Messi has been comfortably better by every metric.
EDIT: One thing I will say is that I think arguably Messi hasn't played to his full potential. If he had Ronaldo's attitude and drive alongside his own talent I think Barca and Argentina would have a few more trophies in their cabinets and Messi would have cleaned house with Balon d'Ors for the last decade.
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Talking about Ballon D'Ors, Ronaldo has finished ahead of Messi 7 out of the last 12 years.
The football world think Ronaldo is the better player for the majority of their career.
The football world think Ronaldo is the better player for the majority of their career.
In my opinion a large part of why this debate has become very close is because of the managers both of them have had.
From a talent point of view its clear that Messi is better than Ronaldo. However looking at achievements and big game performances on the face of it, the decision could go either way.
Ronaldo has had great managers like SAF, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Allegri and Zidane. The impact of these managers on his trophy haul cannot be understated, sure Ronaldo himself has to go out there and perform but on the highest level better tactical details can decide matches.
Messi on the other hand has been managed by far worse managers. The only time he was coached by a great manager was Pep and during that the Messi vs Ronaldo argument was at its most one-sided peak in favour of Messi. Messi often gets the blame for Barcelona's recent exits in the CL but it also can't be understated that managers like Valverde, Enrique, Tata Martino will be shown up tactically at the highest stage of football.
I say all this to say with all the average managers (in some cases terrible) managers Messi has had in his career, the debate is still very close. If Messi had the managers Ronaldo did and vice versa, Messi would be the undisputed GOAT.
From a talent point of view its clear that Messi is better than Ronaldo. However looking at achievements and big game performances on the face of it, the decision could go either way.
Ronaldo has had great managers like SAF, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Allegri and Zidane. The impact of these managers on his trophy haul cannot be understated, sure Ronaldo himself has to go out there and perform but on the highest level better tactical details can decide matches.
Messi on the other hand has been managed by far worse managers. The only time he was coached by a great manager was Pep and during that the Messi vs Ronaldo argument was at its most one-sided peak in favour of Messi. Messi often gets the blame for Barcelona's recent exits in the CL but it also can't be understated that managers like Valverde, Enrique, Tata Martino will be shown up tactically at the highest stage of football.
I say all this to say with all the average managers (in some cases terrible) managers Messi has had in his career, the debate is still very close. If Messi had the managers Ronaldo did and vice versa, Messi would be the undisputed GOAT.
Saw a recap of some Barca game. Still think he's miles ahead of Ronny ability wise. His passing and awareness is just silly. It's like he consists entirely of eyes.
Was it Espanyol? I dunno.
Was it Espanyol? I dunno.
Why isn't there a question mark at the end of the second line? I doubt you're the speaker on behalf of the "football world".
The general view among the football world usually leans towards Messi and always and always will.
The "finishing in front of Ballon D'or voting more times" isn't a thing. Especially isn't a thing when Messi is 2 and half years younger. Messi will probably end his career with more Ballon D'ors anyway.
There isn't a question mark because it's statement, not a question!
I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone, just drawing the obvious conclusion based on the voting in the last 12 years.
You're generalizing without any backup with the line in blue.
Finishing ahead in front of Ballon D'or voting means more journalists thought he was the better player during that calendar year.
As for Messi being younger, that's the reason I didn't include 2004-2006, Ronaldo actually finished ahead 10 out of the last 15 years. It's unlikely for Messi to get closer to the Ballon D'or again if he continues this trend of bumbling out of the CL in the QF stage, regardless of whatever stats he builds against the likes of Huesca or Leganes.
I'd understand your reasoning if he won the EPL with Arsenal, La Liga with Atletico and then Serie A with Sampdoria.
But United, Real and Juve at their peaks?. That adds nothing to the table, my cat would win 3 league titles with that team if he had a spot in that roster. Same way Messi has 9 league titles that would've been more influential to his legacy if you swapped them for 4 titles with Sevilla, for example.
Can your cat play right wing?
To me Messi lost a lot of credit against France during the WC. His attitude was shameful, he looked like a disoriented beaten child for 85mn. He's far more talented than Ronaldo there's no doubt about that but being the goat is also about a winning mentality and Messi just doesn't have it. He doesn't have this ability to pick his team up when things go totally wrong that top players have (he does it in liga but the pressure isnt the same). Ronaldo had more influence from the sideline during the Euro final than Messi on the pitch during the WC knockout game.
At Juve that may be true, but let's not pretend United were that far ahead of the rest those few years. At Real they were up against the supposed best team club team ever?
Yeah nah... "journalists thought".
Finishing above in rankings means nothing. It's all about who won it. I say that lightly because Ballon D'or criteria isn't really about who the real best player is. If it was then Messi would win every year. Ballon D'or just goes to the player who was the best (or has the PR to look like the best) in the team that won the most in the prior season. CL taking priority. It's not an award that goes to purely the best individual.
Also I remember you as somebody who had a whinge that Modric won this year (yes Modric won the very same award that you love to talk about to justify your darling Cristiano's false place in football). "When my boy wins it's the best award ever!!" "When my boy doesn't win it's undeserved and the award doesn't mean much".
Also unless you've been living in a cave the general view has always been that Messi is better because it's easy to see (for most). Evidence can be found by viewing football forums, videos, fan opinion polls and vids, youtube comments, what current footballers and ex footballer say, what managers and pundits say, what your average person on the street who isn't american says... just to name a few.
Here's some examples (I didn't even have to look hard to find this, just found through the first few search results on google and youtube):
http://worldversus.com/Ronaldo-vs-Messi
https://strawpoll.com/czxfk7s4
http://www.zimbio.com/polls/Cristiano+Ronaldo/_7n-o0LNj_A/Ronaldo+Girl+hottest?pollguid=GqbFg_ttsOv
https://www.givemesport.com/1339455...-vs-messi-debate-in-new-vote-during-world-cup
http://www.sportbible.com/football/...oted-the-greatest-player-of-all-time-20180720
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...oney-and-salah-all-make-the-cut-36957135.html
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/the-20-greatest-soccer-players-of-all-time.html
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-100-greatest-footballers-ever-no2-lionel-messi (messi 2nd here, no. 1 ain't ronaldo)
https://www.thoughtco.com/all-time-greatest-soccer-players-3557621
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...il-messi-ronaldo-maradona-voted-a8371576.html
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f...layers-all-time-ever-poll-fans-sportgalleries
Messi wins every time and usually quite comfortably.
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Probably, but he'd be sent off every game, too aggressive.
Even United and Real were at a better position when Ronaldo joined them than Barcelona pre-Leo, with United having won the league the summer he joined and Real Madrid doing the same a season before his arrival, Barcelona were on a 5 season title drought.
But I don't really want to compare between who had it harder, Juve, Real, Barcelona or United are teams that usually present little challenge to be top 2 contenders in the league every season, that's what I meant.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
First Messi fans get pissed when its mentioned he played in the greatest team of this generation for years when he was racking up trophies while Ronaldo was in a piss poor Madrid (and fair enough. Messi shouldn't have to be punished for the quality surrounding him)
But now the narrative is changed to messi having poor managers?
Garbage. That's like me saying if Ronaldo was born in Brazil he'd have won the world cup 3 times by now and would be undisputed GOAT
Are you able to post rationally and not coming across childish at all?
First off I'm not a 'Messi fan' I'm a fan of football so that would make me a fan of both of them since they are among the greats. I made a very simple point that is a statement of fact. It has nothing to do with changing narratives.
Messi's Managers - Rijkaard, Guardiola, Tito, Roura, Martino, Enrique, Valverde
Ronaldo's Managers - Sir Alex, Pellegrini, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Benitez, Zidane, Allegri
Any objective person can clearly see the difference between both sets of managers. When there is such a gap in coaching and tactics, how can we not discard it from any discussions especially in terms of CL trophies. All of Ronaldo's managers apart from Pellegrini have reached the CL final twice as winners or losers while only Pep has managed this for Messi. It's easy to blame CL knockouts on Messi which is why I put forward the hypothetical of Messi having Ronaldo's managers.
The managers have nothing to do with it. If anything Ronaldo was managed for years by Mouronho. He'd play messi as a left wing back if it was up to him.
Messi to me lost a lot of credibility when he quit on his country and national team the same season Ronaldo spurred Portugal on to victory at the Euros. Stuff like that are the intangible differences when judging a player better than the other.
Considering this debate is "50/50" you can not put Messi on Mount Rushmore without Ronaldo being there period.
Considering this debate is "50/50" you can not put Messi on Mount Rushmore without Ronaldo being there period.
Oh, so he lost all credibility for having a spur of rage after 3 consecutive finals with the Argentinian press attacking his family and the roster, even saying that players were consuming drugs the day before a match?.
It's a fair point IMO that he makes. You either quit for ever or don't quit the national team and then come back anyway after a while. Everyone is criticized, not just Messi.
There we go again with you Messi fans.
The fact is that Ronaldo was voted as the better player in 10 out of the last 15 years.
And internet polls? Seriously?
You really are clutching at straws now. Messi won a CL without even playing from QF onwards because a certain Ronaldinho was there, yet somehow Barca were oh so poor?
One of the major problems I have with this tiresome Messi v Ronaldo debate is the suggestion that Ronaldo may be the greatest player who ever lived; and the answer to that is a definite No for me.
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ffs man dumboTrue
Just try and appreciate both players for the joy that they bring you.
All other arguments have been made and heard over and over.
I didn’t say all credibility. Some credibility. Whatever the excuse it was soft point blank period.
Can you stop saying period please?
TBH if El Kommander leads Juve to a cl it would be hard to argue against him having a superior career to Messi's.
John O’Shea has more PL titles than Thierry Henry. Maybe he had a superior career to Henry then? Club trophy wins can’t be used to determine who better the better player is. Otherwise every single United player that won a PL title is better than the likes of Gerrard. Which isn’t the case.
Obviously you judge it by the teammates they had around them and the influence they had on those titles.....
It's different being the main man in a winning team and being a squad player, of course.
Except the gap between John O'Shea and Henry is a lot bigger than the gap between Ronaldo and Messi...and people compare Ronaldo to Messi all the time...noone compares John O'Shea to Henry...
Also, both players are the main men for their clubs as well...
I'm looking forward to the spicy hot takes when Juve inevitably win the CL. People will forget it was already a world class squad that had reached the final a couple of times in recent seasons.
Yeah... Ronaldo is playing with a Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba midfield behind him and next to an incredible Carlos Tevez having one of the best seasons of his career. They're a completely different team than in 2014/15 ffs. The narrative that Ronaldo is playing in a team that got to multiple CL finals without him is the incredible one here, and also the far more popular.
They're similar to 2016/17, but they played Monaco in the semis then, got knocked out in the round of 16 in 2015/16 and in the quarters last year...
Anyone who believes it's a guarantee for Juve to win the Champions League is a complete idiot. Barcelona have a much better squad all over the pitch, will they inevitably win the CL too? Or does that logic only work for one side of the coin?
I guess if Ronaldo deserves no praise if he eventually wins the CL with Juve, does Messi also deserve no praise if he wins it with Barcelona? You should answer it now, before any of these two things actually happen instead of changing narrative depending on which one goes down.
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But they have lost 7 finals! 7...!!! Even with all their great players they always manager to lose.
The narrative would be Ronaldo pushed them to the Cl and if Barca flop again and Madrid don't do well, Ronaldo would be put higher than Messi.
Still comparing a great goal scorer with the Goat?
I agree. The GOAT turns up in the cl while the other feasts on the Getafe's and Rayos of this world, whilst going missing in the Cl year after year...
Dream on
Succinctly put
Do we have stats of games played against each other? Maybe it could help.
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