When someone scored 44 goals in 44 games, and win the CL 3 season in a row, and also finishing as top scorer 6 season in a row, people has reason to believe you know...
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Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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When someone scored 44 goals in 44 games, and win the CL 3 season in a row, and also finishing as top scorer 6 season in a row, people has reason to believe you know...
The fan fiction
Ronaldo scored more than Messi in La Liga+CL in 2017/18.
Messi won the golden boot.
Firstly, I like to work on my laptop while I have football on in the background, or at least have the option of doing this. I work from home, and the main reason I even subscribe to any channels is just to give me something to do while I'm working.If that’s the main issue, just plug your laptop screen to your TV via HDMI
Secondly, I'm not paying a subscription fee for a channel that isn't on TV! If they sort out something with Sky then I might consider it, but I'm not paying a subscription fee for streaming. You can't even stream it to your TV, they haven't even got a TV-based app, just iOS / Android.
In principle, I shouldn't even subscribe anyway, as the number of subscriptions that you have to pay for is getting ridiculous. They think people are going to pay a subscription to see Ronaldo in Serie A, which is basically a one-team league.
If we're honest, modern football is rubbish. There are very few competitive European leagues left. The Champions League is an interminable competition that drags on for months until anything remotely interesting happens, and ends up with the same teams in the last eight year after year. The playing field is so uneven now in terms of money and resources that the sooner a European Super League happens the better. At least we'd get to see some competitive fixtures on a regular basis.
Yet you have to pay more and more to watch what is a worse and worse product. It's honestly not worth it. I did enjoy watching Messi, and the Clasico games are particularly enjoyable, but most of the rest of European football is unwatchable and pointless.
He said Messi was the greatest player of all time as far back as 2012 when Rooney was still in his prime and scoring 30 goals a season.
Are you a United fan? If so, it's a little shit to be having a personal go at a bigger club legend than Ronaldo because he thinks one player is better than him.
Messi at his primes was better than Ronaldo at his prime. But Messi’s prime lasted less than Ronnie’s, and the Argentinian is declining at a faster rate.
Also, Ronaldo has conquered Europe and the local league both in England and Spain (probably will do it again in Italy). Messi is untested in a team different than Barcelona.
Also, Ronaldo has conquered Europe and the local league both in England and Spain (probably will do it again in Italy). Messi is untested in a team different than Barcelona.
Messi is declining at a faster rate yet won the golden boot and won more trophies than Ronaldo this past season.
As for Ronaldo “dominating” Spain he only has two la Liga trophies in the 9 years. Hardly call that dominating in the way you make it sound.
I really don't like when people use this argument. Messi's loyalty to Barcelona shouldn't be used as a negative nor should Ronaldo winning with the two biggest clubs in the world be seen as a game changing positive. If Messi moved to United, City or indeed Juve I'm sure he'd achieve the exact same as Ronaldo. It isn't like these are small clubs where he's been the difference or clubs who before and after him had little success a la Maradona with Napoli.
Was it Messi’s loyalty that enabled him to hold his club ransom over his last contract or was it something else? Very loyal to be in the most comfortable position possible by playing in a better team than he’d be able to play anywhere else while getting more money than he’d get anywhere else.
The same people who spent years downplaying Ronaldo’s success by claiming it was only possible due to the environment he was in are the same people downplaying him changing to a different one. It’s incredible.
I don't think he really wanted to say that, because it's obvious both him and Madrid failed to dethrone Barca as a dominant force in Spain. two league titles are pretty poor return no matter how you look at those 9 years in Spain. he conquered CL when he was in Spain without conquering the Spain itself, you could say.
He got injured at the end of 2013/14 and Madrid lost the title because of it in the last 3 games... some of it was hardly his fault. Especially when you look at the margins the league was decided by in most years.
During the 9 years he’s been there Madrid have been up against the best Barcelona in history and the best Atleti in history and still managed to be more successful than them. That’s the legacy he’ll leave behind.
Holy crap
there are always margins, the same way there were margins when Madrid were winning. domestically, him and Madrid were chasing Barca for the majority of time in that period and lost - that's the simple truth. but like I've said in previous post, it's not like anyone wrote or said that he actually conquered Spain.
In terms of league titles he didn’t, in terms of performances there’s no doubt about it. He scored 48 goals in 35 league games once and still didn’t win the title.
I am thouroughly in the Messi camp but this argument is just as dumb as when people claim Ronaldo is better because he has won the CL more often.
Cristiano scored 450 goals for Real Madrid with a ratio of more than one goal per game, of course this alone justifies the claim that he has conquered Spain. Judging a player based on team trophies simply doesn't make sense, regardless if it considers national leagues or international clubs. It definitely isn't Ronaldo's fault that Real hasn't won La Liga more often with him, you can't expect him to do more than he did, and it is the same with Messi.
I also think it is stupid to claim Messi has declined more when he still plays absolutely amazing and does things only he can do. If both performed the exact same way but Messi had won the bigger trophies recently the narrative and public opinion would be the exact opposite. Mental.
The team aspect is waaayyy too underrated in this discussion. After all, these two are still only one out of 22 men on the pitch. They contribute to wins, probably more than anyone else in their sport, but there are simply natural limits to how much an individual can influence the result in a game played by eleven aside.
This is a silly argument. Messi's consistently played for Barca but he's won the CL with them multiple times and in the process of doing so has conquered the best teams in just about every country. He bossed our title-winning sides in 09 and 11, annoyingly. So there's no reason to doubt he wouldn't have been pissing all over mid-table sides if he'd been playing in the PL.
Ronaldo's been to multiple leagues, but like any top players (including Messi) he's played in systems that were catered to him and which sought to advantage his abilities. Which is, again, natural. Indeed, I'd find it bizarre if any top player went to a team where they were actively trying to disadvantage themselves by playing a role that doesn't suit them. What would the point in that be?
Conquering means supremacy, he's not even the best at losing the league against a better team while scoring a bunch of goals.
Ronaldo scored 48 in 2015, his team lost the title by 2 points.
Messi scored 50 in 2012, his team lost the title by 9 points.
329 vs 311 league goals, 6 vs 2 titles, 5 vs 3 Pichichi trophies, in their Spanish rivalry era and that's giving you the advantage of talking stats alone and not about football performances, I don't get how anyone can say he conquered La Liga, when there's a guy who has been the king.
It's more evident in the years Real Madrid win the league, in the first Messi sets the goal record, in the second he outscores Real Madrid top scorer (Ronaldo) by 12 goals.
If I was here saying Messi has conquered the UCL for the last 6 seasons delusional would be the weakest term to define me, I think saying Ronaldo conquered La Liga while Leo exists in the same universe is as close as you can get to that kind of bias.
Given dominating the CL is an infinitely better achievement than dominating the La Liga think most Ronaldo fans can live with that.
Seems dominating La Liga loses a lot of its merit once Cristiano Ronaldo decides he's done with it, and decides to not even travel to away games (last 9 out of 14 skipped games between February/May in the last two seasons).
And let's not even talk about the Cup, 180 minutes in the last two seasons, why would a GOAT try to win every match and trophy on his sights, right?. Jesus, it can't get more plastic than that.
It's a page out of the Lebron James book of conservation of energy for when it matters the most.
Wow, that’s using age related recovery needs to establish an attitude issue! The lengths some people can go to establish their point. The only way a 33 year old can play all those games (regardless of how fit they are) is if there is something illegal in the intake...
No. Purposely misunderstanding what ‘conquering’ was implying to counter an argument that was never said not only shows said bias but it shows the pain of knowing you’ve watched the greatest period in your club history and still managed to be second best to your biggest rivals during the period of time the guy you’ve continuously downplayed played for them.
All the goal numbers taken out context look great... except that one plays more games than the other since there’s no need to rest when you’re the only outfield player in football history that gets to run 7 kms per match. All the goal numbers in your posts favour Messi, in all of them Ronaldo has a better goal to game ratio...
Lebron has played his 3rd highest amount of minutes just this last season
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17662121/tyronn-lue-working-limiting-lebron-minutes
"For me it's a mindset, and it's getting my body in 82-game fashion," James said. "Will I play them all? Hopefully, but if not then ..."
And still, he only fights for one title, not three at the same time, conservating energy because you want to shine in the biggest stage is not the same as conservating energy because you don't care about 2 of the 3 titles at stake in a season.
I'm not saying he has an attitude issue, I'm saying he's focusing in a single competition, if his team is ok with that (and they 100% are) then there's no issue.
But is this thread named "Messi vs Ronaldo on his terms"?.
Because everything should count, right?. You read this thread and you'd think Messi is winning the cup against Sunday league teams, instead of beating Athletic, Atletico, Sevilla, Villareal, Valencia or Celta in 11 legs with him on the pitch in the last 4 seasons.
This goes back all the way back to when Ronaldo was still 29 y/o, in the same 4 seasons, that competition amounts for 2 lost legs against Atletico and Celta, 200 minutes for Cris.
Is my point that hard to understand?. [1],[2]
Yeah and he played all 48 mins in playoffs. But he coasted in regular season as usual. Hasn't even been going for the top seed in east as he knows he will beat them all in playoffs anyway. Goes into Zero Dark 23 during playoffs.
Because we're not Celtic in freaking Scotland, we're Barcelona and we compete the league against Real Madrid and Atletico, we're not winning 10 league titles in a row against the biggest club in the history of the sport, are you in grasp with Reality?.
6 out of the last 9 seems like a fair deal to me, call me when Ronaldo wins 6 leagues out of 9 against Real Madrid.
Juve are in a 7 league title streak, Bayern are the German juggernaut, they're still 1 and 5 titles behind Real Madrid, nevermind including the 13 UCL titles.
We had "the dream team", they won 1 European Cup. Real Madrid won 3 in the next decade fielding a bunch of mediocre players. You seem to lack grasp of what competing against Real Madrid is like.
Messi in his 50 goal season: 1.35 goals per game
Ronaldo in his 48 goal season: 1.37 goals per game
What does the distance covered by Messi have to do in this, are we talking about football, the game you kick a ball and try to win by helping your team score or don't get scored, or are we talking about decathlon?.
Again, did he miss games this season? Is he ditching 2 competitions to focus in one?.
Because we're not Celtic in freaking Scotland, we're Barcelona and we compete the league against Real Madrid and Atletico, we're not winning 10 league titles in a row against the biggest club in the history of the sport, are you in grasp with Reality?.
6 out of the last 9 seems like a fair deal to me, call me when Ronaldo wins 6 leagues out of 9 against Real Madrid.
Juve are in a 7 league title streak, Bayern are the German juggernaut, they're still 1 and 5 titles behind Real Madrid, nevermind including the 13 UCL titles.
We had "the dream team", they won 1 European Cup. Real Madrid won 3 in the next decade fielding a bunch of mediocre players. You seem to lack grasp of what competing against Real Madrid is like.
Messi in his 50 goal season: 1.35 goals per game
Ronaldo in his 48 goal season: 1.37 goals per game
What does the distance covered by Messi have to do in this, are we talking about football, the game you kick a ball and try to win by helping your team score or don't get scored, or are we talking about decathlon?.
We’re talking about his team allowing him not to run meaning he doesn’t need to rest so he can play more games... hence him having scored more goals and having played a lot more games for the best team in football history.
You using history to justify Barcelona having done very well is hilarious given the arguments we’ve had here about Portugal and Argentina... Still, I know what Barcelona and Real Madrid are. I also know what these past few years were for the Barcelona fanbase which was all I was talking about. When the hell did I say you should be winning 10 league titles in a row?
Barcelona and Atleti having their best period in history only to have still been less successful than Real Madrid with Cristiano Ronaldo at the head of it is hilarious from the outside but it must have left a big mark on those clubs and their fans too. Especially since Barcelona actually had the best team in history in that time with their best player ever leading them.
No. He did what the team needed him to do, same as Ronaldo. Messi playing 90 minutes and scoring an hattrick at home to Leganes 3 days before Barcelona get embarassingly eliminated of the Champions League by Roma pretty much summed it up. Great for his numbers, not that great for the team.
It’s funny because all I’ve read about it is Barcelona fans agreeing with the rotation policy since they’re tired of getting to June and having to support whoever Madrid are facing in the CL final.
Oh, you mean that time after Valverde tried to rest Messi vs Sevilla, we sucked and were losing 2-0 until he came in and turned the game around in 30 minutes so we'd only lose 2 points, and not 3. Then he plays Messi against Leganés (12th in La Liga), he scores 3 goals in a 3-1 win (3 points) just before we go to Roma with a 4-1 lead that shouldn't be at risk.
Obviously, it's on Messi for stat padding, giving us 4 points in the league against Atletico, who were only alive in the league. Not on the rest of the team for sucking so much that they were going to lose in Sevilla, they needed Messi vs Leganes and they lost a 4-1 advantage vs Roma.
Thank god you're here to remind us that it's bad from Messi to play games and win us league titles, and is good for Ronaldo to rest in the league to do nothing vs Bayern and Liverpool.
The lengths some people go to in order to support their agenda.. Of course not being rested in seemingly unimportant games is clearly Messi's decision alone and he only made it out of egoistic reasons, namely being recognized as the better player. Because that's a typical Messi. The same bullshit as this "Messi picks the team, Messi doesn't want to play with Dybala, Messi holds Barca ransom, Messi wanted Icardi out, Messi's nickname is Machiavelli and he is the personified evil".
Barcelona totally need Messi to beat Leganes at Camp Nou, fecking hell. The title was more than won by that point, he didn’t need to play a single minute against Sevilla or Leganes. Hence why he was actually freaking rested against Sevilla away of all games. Yes, playing that Leganes was the single most stupid football decision I’ve seen all year and Barcelona fans did agree with that too. Great for Messi’s numbers but a terrible decision for the team.
Congratulations about winning the league title and getting to the end of the season only to want to forget the past 3 years even happened while trying to remember what it’s like to get past the Champions League quarter finals... awesome few years for you guys when after Messi does his heroics and Ronaldo ditches on 2 competitions a year the results from it are you’re 100% sure you’ll never live to see Barcelona being a more successful football club than Real Madrid.
I didn’t say he did it out of egotistical reasons. I said it was great for his numbers and terrible for the team, which it was.
The lengths people go to so they can absolve Messi out of any blame... are you seriously trying to tell me Messi has no power to decide when he rests or not when they’re playing a pretty much meaningless game 3 days before the second leg of a Champions League quarterfinal? It was a bonkers decision. By both Valverde and Messi.
I’m pretty sure they both know it too and that they’ll treat rotation a lot differently this next season.
It probably has something to do with trying to go undefeated, it was hilarious when they survived the game against Madrid and lost to Levante.
Footballers usually always want to play. That's what coaches are there for. It's called control of training load. You would have a point if Messi insisted on playing and overrode Valverde's decision but that is hardly the case. Doubt that Ronaldo would have stopped playing every game for 90 minutes if it wasn't for the manager team around Zidane convincing him to rest occasionally.
The funny thing is, you criticize as you please. If things don't work out and Messi allegedly took influence, you say that he shouldn't have such influence in the first place. If things don't work out and Messi allegedly had no influence, you say that he should've used his influence to turn things around. For Argentina, you criticize him because he allegedly chooses the players, wants everything to run through him, wanted Icardi out etc. (what's recently been proved to have been bullshit but whatever), for Barcelona you criticize him for not autonomously deciding he should rest more. He can't do it right according to you and every mishappening ultimately has to be his fault while you continously take Ronaldo out of the equation regarding Real Madrid's failures.
Maybe Messi is after all still just a player who does what his coach asks him to do. A school boy as Ibrahimovic once said.
in Barca, they've probably never even entertained the idea that they'll overtake Madrid in near future when it comes to CL, given they've had one (1) single trophy untill 2005. they were always playing the catch-up here so nothing really changes for them; it was 9-1 then and now it's 13-5.
but, you're deluding yourself If you really believe that they were perfectly happy in Madrid to watch Barca win title after title and close the gap on 6 league titles only after already being behind in other domestic competitions. you keep making it sound like Barca were winning some random cups that Madrid don't care about in recent years, but it's a huge thing to be able to catch the biggest of all clubs in every domestic competition.
Madrid were already comfortably ahead of Barca when it comes to european glory, but what they aren't used to may actually happen in the next 15 years or so if the current trend continues. it will be a huge deal for them if or when Barca finally overtake them in la liga titles as well, make no mistake about that.
Whatever Messi is choosing to do, or is having chose for him, it's clearly working. Barca HAVE been more successful than Madrid over the past decade. By quite a margin. 7 out of 10 titles, 6 out of 10 Copas, 3 European Cups, 5 Spanish Super Cups, 3 European Super Cups, 3 Club World Cups. Madrid have won in that time 2 titles, 2 Copas (over 20 years for those 2 Copas btw), 4 European Cups, 3 Spanish Super Cups, 3 European Super Cups, 3 Club World Cups.
Even if you only take the 3 main/important targets every season, Barca have 16 to Madrid's 8. What more can you ask? Sometimes other teams win. The pointless pissing contest that is this thread never mattered. The cups getting sent to the trophy room every season is what matters. This isn't tennis, after all. It wasn't that long ago that Madrid had twice as many titles as Barca, now it's not inconceivable that Barca could overtake Madrid in Liga titles within 20-25 seasons. I'm happy enough with that.
Even if you only take the 3 main/important targets every season, Barca have 16 to Madrid's 8. What more can you ask? Sometimes other teams win. The pointless pissing contest that is this thread never mattered. The cups getting sent to the trophy room every season is what matters. This isn't tennis, after all. It wasn't that long ago that Madrid had twice as many titles as Barca, now it's not inconceivable that Barca could overtake Madrid in Liga titles within 20-25 seasons. I'm happy enough with that.
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