Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Anyone who has watched Barcelona this season will know that messi has been even more devastating on the counter attacking. It's just one of those things where you say something without actually watching what has happened on the pitch. Those that are saying that messi is less suited to other styles could be taken seriously if they had watched messi this season.

He's the best passer in the world, the best dribbler in the world and one of the two best goalscorers in the world so of course he's amazing on the counter. It's just logical.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Anyone who has watched Barcelona this season will know that messi has been even more devastating on the counter attacking. It's just one of those things where you say something without actually watching what has happened on the pitch. Those that are saying that messi is less suited to other styles could be taken seriously if they had watched messi this season.

He's the best passer in the world, the best dribbler in the world and one of the two best goalscorers in the world so of course he's amazing on the counter. It's just logical.
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I always wished I could have seen him in a team that play like Madrid. Barcelona pass it about endlessly with 10 men behind the ball. It makes it that much harder to really get any clear runs at defenders in space. I'd love to see him in a set up like Madrid's where he'd get space to run. Messi running at defenders in space is a defenders worst nightmare I reckon, you have to decide whether you want to back off and let him carry on until you have to commit, or full on commit and risk him either skinning you or slipping a pass in behind you as you approach.
 
Newbie asked me to post this:

@RedDevilsUK

I have a graph from Statsbomb which is OPTA data in a graph for you from last year and this year.

2012/13:
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Shows Messi much more clinical, much more dribbles (shows the lack of Ronaldos dribbling skills), his lack of passing etc, and that Ronaldo is a pure goal machine and offers little else.

Messi less shots but DOUBLE the conversion rate.

Yet somehow Ronaldo wins the Ballon D'or?

2013/14:

cfee35a9e7.png


Again less effective, yet wins the Ballon d'or, purely down to La Decima, Messi remains the most well rounded, consistent footballer on the planet, yet doesn't win the Ballon D'or due to a few less goals and not winning the Champions League, so the Ballon D'or was measured on Real Madrids success (Sergio Ramos should be thanked for saving Real).

Also Messi took Argentina to World Cup Final, where as Ronaldo failed to inspire his team in the World Cup also as the Captain of Portugal saying effectively "We're a S#!@ team" (as the Captain).

2014/15:
6728877d57.png


Shows Messi much more rounded player, more dribbles, key passes, and his conversion from shots much higher (this shows Messi is more clinical).
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I reckon if Messi hadn't won the Balon Dor 4 times before, he would've won at least one of the last two that Ronaldo has won.

I love watching Messi so much, but these days I don't even like watching Ronaldo anymore. He's not as fun to watch as he was when he was with us and in his first few years at Madrid. Yeah he scores more now, but he's no fun to watch. Messi is just on a different level.
 
BD94 said:
I reckon if Messi hadn't won the Balon Dor 4 times before, he would've won at least one of the last two that Ronaldo has won.

I love watching Messi so much, but these days I don't even like watching Ronaldo anymore. He's not as fun to watch as he was when he was with us and in his first few years at Madrid. Yeah he scores more now, but he's no fun to watch. Messi is just on a different level.
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There's a distinct lack of 'wow' moments from Ronaldo in recent years. The occasional long range goal that made me think 'shit that was good', but they're few and far between. Far too many of his goals are teed up so perfectly for him it doesn't make me stand up or anything. Even his assists, very good assist numbers this season, but watching him, most of them are pretty routine, nothing really special that you might expect from the very top players.
 
Snake Plissken said:
There's a distinct lack of 'wow' moments from Ronaldo in recent years. The occasional long range goal that made me think 'shit that was good', but they're few and far between. Far too many of his goals are teed up so perfectly for him it doesn't make me stand up or anything. Even his assists, very good assist numbers this season, but watching him, most of them are pretty routine, nothing really special that you might expect from the very top players.
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I agree with this, i always believed that from the way he runs, shoots,moves,dribbles etc Ronaldo can be emulated by anyone especially young children, you see it all the time - kids/adults..mostly kids trying to emulate his playing style and getting it right, I've watched guys do it all the time(some i play with,some i just observe) - Messi's is a little bit harder if it doesn't come natural you'll struggle to emulate Messi and be efficient at the same time, how do you emulate him in your game though? he doesn't always move the same way every time, he is more complex - hence the innate ability to give you those 'wow' moments even in a bad game,sometimes you hear something like "Messi is talented and Ronaldo is hard working" i guess in a sense this is true but i always dismiss it as it might also suggest that Ronaldo isn't talented or Messi isn't hard working /is lazy (people say this a lot) and it irks me every time, you cant do what Messi does on the pitch without hard work.
 
He's capable, his first season in Madrid had many moments where i thought 'wow'. Then in his 42 goal season at United you had the Portsmouth Free kick, the header away to Roma, the following season his goal away to Porto, these were all big 'wow' moments. Just not many of them in recent years. You'll sometimes see people talking about him carrying Madrid or whatever, but I just don't see enough individual brilliance to make that true at all.
 
BD94 said:
I reckon if Messi hadn't won the Balon Dor 4 times before, he would've won at least one of the last two that Ronaldo has won.

I love watching Messi so much, but these days I don't even like watching Ronaldo anymore. He's not as fun to watch as he was when he was with us and in his first few years at Madrid. Yeah he scores more now, but he's no fun to watch. Messi is just on a different level.
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I don't think so. There might be a case to made for 2013 but on 2014, it wasn't even close. Ronaldo was comfortably the better player.

Messi (if we account only the top level) is a better player than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo has been better on the last 2 seasons, with this season being quite close (though I think that Messi has been better on this one). People who say that it isn't even close or Messi is a level above are more biased and ridiculous than Cal.

Definitely agree about Ronaldo not being good to watch though.
 
Revan said:
I don't think so. There might be a case to made for 2013 but on 2014, it wasn't even close. Ronaldo was comfortably the better player.

Messi (if we account only the top level) is a better player than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo has been better on the last 2 seasons, with this season being quite close (though I think that Messi has been better on this one). People who say that it isn't even close or Messi is a level above are more biased and ridiculous than Cal.

Definitely agree about Ronaldo not being good to watch though.
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I'll probably regret asking this just before I go to bed...but how on earth was it not even close in 2014!? Both of them were pretty average from January until the end of the season - Cristiano playing through injury but still only having a few standout performances during those 4/5 months, while Messi was average for whatever reason, looking like he couldn't be bothered at times. Then at the World Cup, Cristiano was terrible (injury hit, again) and Messi was good but still not at his best. During the first half of 2014/15, they were both great but I'd say Messi edges it.

So yeah, hardly a no-contest is it? Cristiano wins hands down if you're talking about the 13/14 season, but not the 2014 year.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
I'll probably regret asking this just before I go to bed...but how on earth was it not even close in 2014!? Both of them were pretty average from January until the end of the season - Cristiano playing through injury but still only having a few standout performances during those 4/5 months, while Messi was average for whatever reason, looking like he couldn't be bothered at times. Then at the World Cup, Cristiano was terrible (injury hit, again) and Messi was good but still not at his best. During the first half of 2014/15, they were both great but I'd say Messi edges it.

So yeah, hardly a no-contest is it? Cristiano wins hands down if you're talking about the 13/14 season, but not the 2014 year.
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Ronaldo was the best player and top scorer (with all time record, even counting the old competition) in UCL. He won UCL, which is the most important trophy on club level. He was also top scorer in Europe. He was also better than Messi at the beginning of this season (the voting is done quite early, so while Messi was better on November/December, that doesn't count cause the voting is already done).

Anyway, you're the anti-Cal of this thread and scoring 100 goals or so doesn't make the player any good.
 
Revan said:
Ronaldo was the best player and top scorer (with all time record, even counting the old competition) in UCL. He won UCL, which is the most important trophy on club level. He was also top scorer in Europe. He was also better than Messi at the beginning of this season (the voting is done quite early, so while Messi was better on November/December, that doesn't count cause the voting is already done).

Anyway, you're the anti-Cal of this thread and scoring 100 goals or so doesn't make the player any good.
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What are you on about? I've already said he was better in the 2013/14 season, what I'm disputing is his 2014 calendar year performances i.e. January to May 2014. How does any of that mean he wasn't underwhelming (like Messi) from January onwards that season? I'm not even saying he was worse than Messi in 2014, I'm just saying that "it's not even close" is ludicrous.

He wasn't better than Messi at the beginning of the season. Scoring more, not playing better - both were great though.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
What are you on about? I've already said he was better in the 2013/14 season, what I'm disputing is his 2014 calendar year performances i.e. January to May 2014. How does any of that mean he wasn't underwhelming (like Messi) from January onwards that season?

He wasn't better than Messi at the beginning of the season. Scoring more, not playing better - both were great though.
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He definitely was. And he wasn't just scoring more, he was scoring much much more. 22 goals in his forst 12 games. That was simply ridiculous even by their standards. Messi was playing good but not scoring back then. If it wasn't for Neymar goals, Madrid would have gone many points above Barca.

Both were underwhelming (by their standards) at the second half of last season, but Ronaldo won UCL, was top scorer in UCL and top scorer in Europe. So, I guess he was better on those months.
 
Messi is the better player with the ball at his feet and the better player overall. However, Ronaldo is clearly better than Messi off the ball (movement, positioning, works harder) and a better goalscorer. Don't think there is as much in it as some posters on here suggest. Maybe the Ballon D'Or count of 4 to 3 is about right. Also, Ronaldo has 20 assists this season, so the "goalhanger" jibe earlier in the thread is silly.
 
Revan said:
He definitely was. And he wasn't just scoring more, he was scoring much much more. 22 goals in his forst 12 games. That was simply ridiculous even by their standards. Messi was playing good but not scoring back then. If it wasn't for Neymar goals, Madrid would have gone many points above Barca.

Both were underwhelming (by their standards) at the second half of last season, but Ronaldo won UCL, was top scorer in UCL and top scorer in Europe. So, I guess he was better on those months.
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If it wasn't for Neymar? Holy feck. If you can't see that Messi was carrying Barcelona for the first half of this season there's no point in even talking about this any more.

That seriously made me crack up :lol:
 
Bob Loblaw said:
If it wasn't for Neymar? Holy feck. If you can't see that Messi was carrying Barcelona for the first half of this season there's no point in even talking about this any more.

That seriously made me crack up :lol:
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Neymar was Barca's best player up to November or so. We had this debate before so I don't know how you are getting surprised on reading something that we had discussed months ago.
 
surf said:
Messi is the better player with the ball at his feet and the better player overall. However, Ronaldo is clearly better than Messi off the ball (movement, positioning, works harder) and a better goalscorer. Don't think there is as much in it as some posters on here suggest. Maybe the Ballon D'Or count of 4 to 3 is about right. Also, Ronaldo has 20 assists this season, so the "goalhanger" jibe earlier in the thread is silly.
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Not neccesarily. I think that they are at around the same level when it comes to putting the ball in the net. It isn't a surpise that since Ronaldo went there, they have scored the same amount of goals.

Agree that Messi is better with the ball and Ronaldo off the ball. I also agree that Messi is the best player (at their absolute best) and has had a better career so far. Personally would put Ronaldo on top 10, possibly even top 5 of all time, with Messi as No.1
 
Revan said:
Neymar was Barca's best player up to November or so. We had this debate before so I don't know how you are getting surprised on reading something that we had discussed months ago.
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I don't remember that, but I'm sure I was equally baffled back then. You're literally the only person I've seen claim anyone but Messi was Barcelona's best player during the first few months of the season. Neymar was finishing well but that was it, Messi was doing basically everything. They'd have been mid table without him for God sake.
 
Revan said:
Neymar was Barca's best player up to November or so. We had this debate before so I don't know how you are getting surprised on reading something that we had discussed months ago.
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Neymar wasnt Barcelona's best player, he was just scoring goals.....he was close but if you actually watched the games you'd see that Messi was better overall, but i can understand your point about Ronaldo being better early in the season.
 
Revan said:
Neymar was Barca's best player up to November or so. We had this debate before so I don't know how you are getting surprised on reading something that we had discussed months ago.
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That's not true at all, I've never heard anyone make that claim until now.
 
Revan said:
Not neccesarily. I think that they are at around the same level when it comes to putting the ball in the net. It isn't a surpise that since Ronaldo went there, they have scored the same amount of goals.

Agree that Messi is better with the ball and Ronaldo off the ball. I also agree that Messi is the best player (at their absolute best) and has had a better career so far. Personally would put Ronaldo on top 10, possibly even top 5 of all time, with Messi as No.1
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I see them as the top 2 because of their insanely great club form week after week, year after year. Their rivalry has set new standards.
 
dxadel said:
Neymar wasnt Barcelona's best player, he was just scoring goals.....he was close but if you actually watched the games you'd see that Messi was better overall, but i can understand your point about Ronaldo being better early in the season.
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Which were coming at some point when Messi wasn't scoring and Suarez wasn't available. Lots of goals. Which were winning points. And keeping Barca near Madrid.

Quite incredibly when Messi started to score lots of goals, and Suarez came back and started to score lots of goals, Barca overtook Madrid and since then is on the first place. Who would have thought that. Surprise. Goals.
 
I've said it before, Messi could score no goals and he would still be comfortably better than Ronaldo. He just plays on a completely different level.
 
Revan said:
Which were coming at some point when Messi wasn't scoring and Suarez wasn't available. Lots of goals. Which were winning points. And keeping Barca near Madrid.

Quite incredibly when Messi started to score lots of goals, and Suarez came back and started to score lots of goals, Barca overtook Madrid and since then is on the first place. Who would have thought that. Surprise. Goals.
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Lots of goals? Neymar scored 1 more than Messi in the games before Suárez returned. So yeah...you're talking crap. 1 goal more doesn't cover for vastly inferior overall performances.
 
Revan said:
Which were coming at some point when Messi wasn't scoring and Suarez wasn't available. Lots of goals. Which were winning points. And keeping Barca near Madrid.

Quite incredibly when Messi started to score lots of goals, and Suarez came back and started to score lots of goals, Barca overtook Madrid and since then is on the first place. Who would have thought that. Surprise. Goals.
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Which were mostly assisted by Messi, you forgot that part - Messi was controlling the games - he contributed more to the team than Neymar, yes Neymar scored more goals....you still saw more of Messi than Neymar for majority of the games unless of course you watched the highlights or just read the scoring charts.

The problem with Messi is that a lot of people don't watch Barcelona play, that build up play can be pretty boring to the non supporter, so arguing about Messi's efficiency when he isn't scoring goals is really hard to do, how do you try to convince someone that an overall performance in a game(Messi) is better than a brace (Ronaldo)?... its fruitless.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
I've said it before, Messi could score no goals and he would still be comfortably better than Ronaldo. He just plays on a completely different level.
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There is no gameplay on the world (for a striker/attacking midfielder) which can compensate for 50-60 goals.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Lots of goals? Neymar scored 1 more than Messi in the games before Suárez returned. So yeah...you're talking crap. 1 goal more doesn't cover for vastly inferior overall performances.
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I said before November (clearly mentioned that November-December doesn't count cause the voting was already over).
 
Revan said:
I said before November (clearly mentioned that November-December doesn't count cause the voting was already over).
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Err...ok. 2 goals more then, the Clásico that Suárez returned in was the last game of October.

Point still stands.
 
Revan said:
There is no gameplay on the world (for a striker/attacking midfielder) which can compensate for 50-60 goals.
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Yes there is. Messi has eagle vision and is probably the best passer of all time, the passes he makes are something Ronaldo probably can't even dream off. Look how many assists he has, and that doesn't even count the times his team mates have missed chances Messi puts on a plate for them. Everything he does when he is controlling games looks so easy, but in reality very few players can pull that stuff off. He can even turn into Paul Scholes and start pulling the strings from deep in his own half.

Even if we take into account goals, Messi has proved when playing centrally he is a much better goal scorer than Cristiano too, in 2012 he banged in 73 goals (Ronaldo's best is 60).

I know Ronaldo is a better player now, but I very much prefer 2007/08 Ronaldo to anything I've seen at Madrid, because in that season he shown the ability to control games in a magical way like Messi does now. Ronaldo is incredibly boring to watch these days and looks more like a finisher than the complete footballer everyone makes him out to be.

Tbh I'm starting to think that C Ronaldo isn't even the best Ronaldo of all time.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
Yes there is. Messi has eagle vision and is probably the best passer of all time, the passes he makes are something Ronaldo probably can't even dream off. Look how many assists he has, and that doesn't even count the times his team mates have missed chances Messi puts on a plate for them. Everything he does when he is controlling games looks so easy, but in reality very few players can pull that stuff off. He can even turn into Paul Scholes and start pulling the strings from deep in his own half.

Even if we take into account goals, Messi has proved when playing centrally he is a much better goal scorer than Cristiano too, in 2012 he banged in 73 goals (Ronaldo's best is 60).

I know Ronaldo is a better player now, but I very much prefer 2007/08 Ronaldo to anything I've seen at Madrid, because in that season he shown the ability to control games in a magical way like Messi does now. Ronaldo is incredibly boring to watch these days and looks more like a finisher than the complete footballer everyone makes him out to be.

Tbh I'm starting to think that C Ronaldo isn't even the best Ronaldo of all time.
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30 more than Ronaldo since Ronaldo went to Spain. So, around 5 assists more than him for season.

There are many things that Ronaldo does (far) better than Messi. Counter attacking for example, Ronaldo is arguably the best player on counter attacking ever. Workrate. Off the ball movement. Getting into positions to score.

I would agree that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo, I have said that many times. But better than Ronaldo if we take out his goals? That is on ridiculous territory. For all his general play, Messi's biggest strength are his goals. Take them out and he will be playing on lower levels (find a striker who doesn't score and plays succesfully on top leagues).
 
Although I wouldn´t like to see a Clásico in the Champions league final, I think it would be a great culmination to the rivalry Cristiano-Messi
 
Revan said:
30 more than Ronaldo since Ronaldo went to Spain. So, around 5 assists more than him for season.

There are many things that Ronaldo does (far) better than Messi. Counter attacking for example, Ronaldo is arguably the best player on counter attacking ever. Workrate. Off the ball movement. Getting into positions to score.

I would agree that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo, I have said that many times. But better than Ronaldo if we take out his goals? That is on ridiculous territory. For all his general play, Messi's biggest strength are his goals. Take them out and he will be playing on lower levels (find a striker who doesn't score and plays succesfully on top leagues).
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I think its the other way around mate, Messi can pass the ball, and i don't mean (try to score get tackled then just hit the ball hard enough to get to Hernandez) i mean really assist, Messi links up well, Messi makes his teammates better, Ronaldo does the opposite, a few years ago i might have agreed but not this version of Messi, he is more mature now - he doesn't have to score to be man of the match.
 
dxadel said:
I think its the other way around mate, Messi can pass the ball, and i don't mean (try to score get tackled then just hit the ball hard enough to get to Hernandez) i mean really assist, Messi links up well, Messi makes his teammates better, Ronaldo does the opposite, a few years ago i might have agreed but not this version of Messi, he is more mature now - he doesn't have to score to be man of the match.
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Do you think that a Messi who doesn't score (the same Messi with all those characteristics, playing as a striker/No.10 but with zero goals) would be playing on La Liga, let alone as being mentioned as the best ever?

Lets not joke itself, as great as Messi is, his goals are extremely important. No one can dismiss 50-70 goals he scores per season. In fact, even at his best, Xavi was more influential than him, Xavi was at the heart of Barca and controlled the games. But Messi was the better player cause he had a great all round game but more imporantly, scored so many goals.

Since when we have the category of 'real assists'. It is ludicrous how many people belittle Ronaldo? A few weeks ago his goals didn't count cause they were tap ins, now his assists aren't real assists. On a few weeks, his runs which set up goals won't be real runs. And then people call Cal agenda driven.
 
Revan said:
Do you think that a Messi who doesn't score (the same Messi with all those characteristics, playing as a striker/No.10 but with zero goals) would be playing on La Liga, let alone as being mentioned as the best ever?

Lets not joke itself, as great as Messi is, his goals are extremely important. No one can dismiss 50-70 goals he scores per season. In fact, even at his best, Xavi was more influential than him, Xavi was at the heart of Barca and controlled the games. But Messi was the better player cause he had a great all round game but more imporantly, scored so many goals.

Since when we have the category of 'real assists'. It is ludicrous how many people belittle Ronaldo? A few weeks ago his goals didn't count cause they were tap ins, now his assists aren't real assists. On a few weeks, his runs which set up goals won't be real runs. And then people call Cal agenda driven.
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Xavi was also better than Ronaldo back then.
 
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