Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Miscemayl]

GOAT should never disappear on the biggest stage. Every player will have bad games but the great players will always shine on the big stage. They always inspire when facing adversity.

Messi is disappearing down a hole in this WC.

Fantastic at his peak but he's no where near it now. Without peak Xavi and Iniesta, Messi seems to have lost some of his sparks. He's not been a factor in the CL for a while. Without having outrageous talent around him, Messi's looking very human.

Looking at the Ballon D'Or, every single time Messi's won it, there's at least another Barcelona player in the top 3. Messi's greatness is almost dependent on having greatness surrounding him.

Ronaldo's the opposite, he never had any teammates in the top 3. He's outlasted Messi, won the last 2 and you can almost bet he'll go ahead in the Ballon D'Or this year despite being older than Messi.

It's not even close.

 

[zdert1]

This thread is insane Messi plays 1vs21 as it seems that even his teammates want him to lose. Argentina are hilariously bad. Portugal have a team which has a system and Cristiano’s only job is to score goals, his teammates do everything else for him while Messi has to do literally everything for Argentina if they want to win. I can’t even find words how shit they are.

”But Messi has world class teammates in Argentina.” Higuain and Di Maria have always been pure shit for the national team, Aguero hasn’t stood out either, Dybala doesn’t even get to play and the rest of the team are garbage. On top of that Sampaoli is an idiot who has no clue.

Messi is miles ahead of every other player in the world but still you people find a way to think that Cristiano is better while he isn’t even the best player in Real Madrid. Ridiculous.

 

[RobinLFC]

Bookies are as unbiased as someone can be (otherwise they will be out of business) and they had Argentina as fifth favorite (after Brazil, Germany, France and Spain).

Then please explain why they didn't have Uruguay, Colombia and Peru before Argentina? Is it because they thought Messi would magically raise their level at the WC (ah, there it is again, unrealistic expectations)?

 

[mancan92]

Exactly, today Ronaldo is better, he is in form while Messi isn't. But acting as if Argentina are a good team, is something else.

They don't have to be a great team but they are good enough to beat Iceland and Croatia and for sure have a much better team than Portugal.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

Then please explain why they didn't have Uruguay, Colombia and Peru before Argentina? Is it because they thought Messi would magically raise their level at the WC (ah, there it is again, unrealistic expectations)?

It’s because Argentina have a better squad / better quality players.

 

[padr81]

The rest of the team is atrocious? That's laughable. On paper, 2014 Argentina was easily top 3, possibly the best on paper. And yet, Messi failed to show up except against Iran and Bosnia. Knockout stages, Argentina barely squeezed by the almighty Belgium and Switzerland (each with far worse teams) and had to get past Netherlands on penalties.

Defenders: Federico Fernandez (Napoli), Ezequiel Garay (Benfica), Martin Demichelis (Manchester City), Pablo Zabaleta (Manchester City), Marcos Rojo (Sporting Lisbon), Jose Basanta (Monterrey), Hugo Campagnaro (Inter Milan).

Midfielders: Fernando Gago (Boca Juniors), Augusto Fernandez (Celta Vigo), Javier Mascherano (Barcelona), Angel Di Maria (Real Madrid), Lucas Biglia (Lazio), Maxi Rodriguez (Newell's Old Boys), Ricardo Alvarez (Inter Milan), Enzo Perez (Benfica).

Forwards: Sergio Aguero (Manchester City), Gonzalo Higuain (Napoli), Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Ezequiel Lavezzi (Paris Saint-Germain), Rodrigo Palacio (Inter Milan).

Who said anything about 2014 squad? The Argentina team at this World Cup is atrocious with a decent team in 2014 he reached the final. Again whataboutery because you can't see clearly from having your head so far up Ronnies backside.
Failed to show up against Bosnia and Iran? didn't he get the winning goals in both games? Apparently doing feck all for 90 minutes and scoring is good enough for Ronaldo because he decides games but not for Messi... its ridiculous.

In 2016 Portugal and the mighty CR7 had 3 draws where he was poor v Iceland, useless v Austria, had a good game against the mighty Hungary (a far worse side than Bosnia btw...), coming 3rd in said group and being the only team to qualify without a win. His team scraped past Croatia, needed penalites against Poland (a far worse team than Switzerland or Belgium), he had a great semi-final against Wales on their only decent showing in 1000 years and was cheerleader of the year during the final and you call out Messi on 2014 while praising this. Seeing as you like to dimiss penalties, the mighty Ronaldo played in 2 wins during regulation time for Portugal at Euro 2016... but hey those abs make for a good male cheerleader.


This is exactly the problem you Ronaldo guys have, you are incapable of applying the logic you use for Messi on Ronaldo.

 

[mancan92]

Yup. If we even forget the names and as I said bar attack it's average they dont function as a team. They're a shambles of a team.

And portugal arent an shambles of a team? Did you see them against morroco? or they conceeded 3 vs spain. The only reason they are top is because of ronaldo.

 

[padr81]

Portugal conceded 3 to Spain. If Morocco weren’t toothless in front of goal they would have conceded. Their fullbacks made Amrobat literally look like Messi.

So yes there’s a strong chance Croatia would have scored 3 past them. But there’s a chance Ronaldo would have scored too.

So let’s not make excuses. Both Portugal and Argentina aren’t great. Difference currently is Ronaldo is scoring.

3 to Spain in a competitive game and they put together cohesive attacks and got the ball to Ronaldo. Argentina conceded 6 to Spain (who were barely arsed) and made them look like children.
Would Croatia beat them? Possibly but Portugal beat them in Euro 2016 in a pretty even game where Ronnie was poor.
When Ronnie is poor Portugal will find a way.

Portugal 3-3 Spain, Portugal 1-0 Croatia (in competitive games)
Argentina 1-6 Spain, Argentina 0-3 Croatia, how people can argue these teams are remotely similar is beyond me.

 

[Bojan11]

3 to Spain in a competitive game and they put together cohesive attacks and got the ball to Ronaldo. Argentina conceded 6 to Spain (who were barely arsed) and made them look like children.
Would Croatia beat them? Possibly but Portugal beat them in Euro 2016 in a pretty even game where Ronnie was poor.
When Ronnie is poor Portugal will find a way.

Portugal 3-3 Spain, Portugal 1-0 Croatia (in competitive games)
Argentina 1-6 Spain, Argentina 0-3 Croatia, how people can argue these teams are remotely similar is beyond me.

Why are you counting a friendly that Messi didn’t play in?

What’s the point of that? Are you feeling ok?

 

[padr81]

You got it all wrong. You should be laughing at the fact that Argentina tied against....ICELAND, that football giant of a nation.

And yes, do ignore carefully thought-out research again proving that population is correlated to WC success (and they do account for anomolies such as India, USA, etc., which typically have less investment and infrastructure for football).

You do realise Portugal tied with Iceland in 2016 right, in that competition where Ronaldo carried them to the trophy according to you guys... and finished below them in the group? Or did you only start watching football recently...

 

[altodevil]

I don't understand these folks calling Ronaldo ''GOAT", when he clearly is not the best footballer ever. I cannot comment for Pele, but stretches of Maradona's and Messi's careers have both been played at a higher level than Ronaldo has achieved. Even now. Ronaldo is the more effective player currently? Fantastic, great, power to him, he's an all-timer. But giving the title of "greatest ever" or "goat" to someone who didn't play football the best is just dumb. How many of the people saying Ronaldo here are either: a) Portuguese or b) Young United fans who fell in love with him when he started here? They are the only explanations in my book.

 

[padr81]

Why are you counting a friendly that Messi didn’t play in?

What’s the point of that? Are you feeling ok?

Because it shows exactly how poor Argentina are. It is perfectly acceptable and shows the level Argentina are at, no?
Do you honestly believe that Portugal get beat like that without Ronaldo?

And I'm feeling perfectly fine thanks for asking.

 

[Adebesi]

"Michael Carrick sucks."

Not really interested in this guy's opinion.

 

[Revan]

Then please explain why they didn't have Uruguay, Colombia and Peru before Argentina? Is it because they thought Messi would magically raise their level at the WC (ah, there it is again, unrealistic expectations)?

Cause on players quality, Argentina are better.

 

[Revan]

3 to Spain in a competitive game and they put together cohesive attacks and got the ball to Ronaldo. Argentina conceded 6 to Spain (who were barely arsed) and made them look like children.
Would Croatia beat them? Possibly but Portugal beat them in Euro 2016 in a pretty even game where Ronnie was poor.
When Ronnie is poor Portugal will find a way.

Portugal 3-3 Spain, Portugal 1-0 Croatia (in competitive games)
Argentina 1-6 Spain, Argentina 0-3 Croatia, how people can argue these teams are remotely similar is beyond me.

You're missing the big elephants in the room. Put them there and try again.

 

[padr81]

Sorry, I should clarify. Humiliated.

Lol, you crack me up, Euro 2016. Portugal 1-1 Iceland. Iceland 2nd in group, Portugal 3rd and look how that turned out. Iceland have also beaten England fwiw, topped a group with Croatia in qualifying (and beaten them in the process).

You're missing the big elephants in the room. Put them there and try again.

What exactly am I missing?

 

[Bojan11]

Because it shows exactly how poor Argentina are. It is perfectly acceptable and shows the level Argentina are at, no?
Do you honestly believe that Portugal get beat like that without Ronaldo?

And I'm feeling perfectly fine thanks for asking.

You are getting results from Euro 2016?

I may as well pull results from the last Copa America or World Cup to show Argentina are not the crap team you make them out to be.

Messi didn’t do much in the knockout rounds in the last World Cup. Yet they still reached the final.

They are under achieving. Yes, Spain beat Argentina 7-1 in a friendly without Messi. They also should have beat Portugal and if it wasn’t for Ronaldo saving them they would have. Just like Ronaldo was the difference again against Morocco. Put Ronaldo in the Morocco team and they win that easily.

Maybe get a drink or something.

 

[RobinLFC]

Cause on players quality, Argentina are better.

Individual player quality means little since it's a team sport.

 

[altodevil]

You are getting results from Euro 2016?

I may as well pull results from the last Copa America or World Cup to show Argentina are not the crap team you make them out to be.

Messi didn’t do much in the knockout rounds in the last World Cup. Yet they still reached the final.

They are under achieving. Yes, Spain beat Argentina 7-1 in a friendly without Messi. They also should have beat Portugal and if it wasn’t for Ronaldo saving them they would have. Just like Ronaldo was the difference again against Morocco. Put Ronaldo in the Morocco team and they win that easily.

Maybe get a drink or something.

Ronaldo saved Portugal against Spain by a De Gea howler. Narratives, narratives, narratives, with you people.

 

[justboy68]

"Michael Carrick sucks."

Not really interested in this guy's opinion.

No idea who he is but he seems like the absolute worst. A 'fraud' for not being the greatest player of all time, using the term "Fat Ronaldo". Calling top level pro's like Carrick and Fletcher (of 07-09) shit because they aren't as good as Xavi and Iniesta. Yuck.

 

[Ishdalar]

"Michael Carrick sucks."

Not really interested in this guy's opinion.

"Fat Ronaldo could play with anyone"

Someone should tell this guy that while Ronaldo could play with anyone he didn't win La Liga with Barcelona, he finished 2nd his first seaon with Inter, 8th on the second, lost the 98' WC final and never lifted the UCL trophy despite playing with Beckham, Zidane, Figo and Raul.

Maybe it takes a little more to win titles.

 

[JPRouve]

They don't have to be a great team but they are good enough to beat Iceland and Croatia and for sure have a much better team than Portugal.

As of today, they are not good enough for it and they haven't been in a long time, they have zero cohesion and you do nothing at this level without it. And no, they don't have a better team than Portugal, Portugal have solid and sound players even if they are not flashy and they actually play like a team.

 

[altodevil]

"Fat Ronaldo could play with anyone"

Someone should tell this guy that while Ronaldo could play with anyone he didn't win La Liga with Barcelona, he finished 2nd his first seaon with Inter, 8th on the second, lost the 98' WC final and never lifted the UCL trophy despite playing with Beckham, Zidane, Figo and Raul.

Maybe it takes a little more to win titles.

Yeah, maybe it's not all about one player? Maybe things like chemistry, managers, tactics all make a difference? Obviously not the case for Cristiano though, he is dragging Madrid and Portugal atm.

 

[Ishdalar]

You are getting results from Euro 2016?

I may as well pull results from the last Copa America or World Cup to show Argentina are not the crap team you make them out to be.

Messi didn’t do much in the knockout rounds in the last World Cup. Yet they still reached the final.

They are under achieving. Yes, Spain beat Argentina 7-1 in a friendly without Messi. They also should have beat Portugal and if it wasn’t for Ronaldo saving them they would have. Just like Ronaldo was the difference again against Morocco. Put Ronaldo in the Morocco team and they win that easily.

Maybe get a drink or something.

God, this is the new "Nothing without XavIniesta", isn't it?. I may have read that nonsense 20 times just today

 

[Ban]

And portugal arent an shambles of a team? Did you see them against morroco? or they conceeded 3 vs spain. The only reason they are top is because of ronaldo.

They arent shambles of a 'team'. As a team they're function well in the system they work in, they play to Ronaldo's strenghts and know how to bring the ball to Ronaldo. Sure they're suspect to a goal or 2 but they're pretty similar to Euros 16 and we know how that one ended.
Unlike Argentina who aren't functioning as a team at all, they're playing like a bunch of guys who saw each other for the 1st time. That isn't an excuse for Messi, his drive and mentality was nowhere to be seen yesterday and it seemed like he'd given up despite the fact they're shambles.

 

[Bojan11]

As of today, they are not good enough for it and they haven't been in a long time, they have zero cohesion and you do nothing at this level without it. And no, they don't have a better team than Portugal, Portugal have solid and sound players even if they are not flashy and they actually play like a team.

That’s down to the manager. Last World Cup Portugal didn’t play like a team.

Sabella in 2014 got them organised. It wasn’t pretty to watch but it worked and they reached the final.

 

[padr81]

You are getting results from Euro 2016?

I may as well pull results from the last Copa America or World Cup to show Argentina are not the crap team you make them out to be.

Messi didn’t do much in the knockout rounds in the last World Cup. Yet they still reached the final.

They are under achieving. Yes, Spain beat Argentina 7-1 in a friendly without Messi. They also should have beat Portugal and if it wasn’t for Ronaldo saving them they would have. Just like Ronaldo was the difference again against Morocco. Put Ronaldo in the Morocco team and they win that easily.

Maybe get a drink or something.

Euro 2016 was just 2 years ago and most the squads are very, very similar. WC 2014 was twice that length ago and the Argentina team is very different, Portugal, Spain and Croatia's are not.
Thats completely not true either.

The friendly was 6-1 and do you think Messi would have kept those goals out? The game with Portugal was competitive start to finish. You're awful sure of Ronaldo for Morocco but I disagree, Portugal are just a better team who don't play in as proactive way.

Why would I get a drink? That's twice you tried to be smart with your comments but I'll let it slide because anyone trying to say Messi and Ronaldo are players with very similar records in big games who have done very much the same for their national teams seems to irk you.

 

[Bojan11]

God, this is the new "Nothing without XavIniesta", isn't it?. I may have read that nonsense 20 times just today

Ok he scored 3 hat tricks and was excellent in the goalless draw vs Holland. Was equally amazing against the Swiss where they won in extra time. Just amazing.

 

[Revan]

Individual player quality means little since it's a team sport.

Yes, and Messi is part of the problem. Not necessarily the problem, but a giant part of it.

 

[breakout67]

They arent shambles of a 'team'. As a team they're function well in the system they work in, they play to Ronaldo's strenghts and know how to bring the ball to Ronaldo. Sure they're suspect to a goal or 2 but they're pretty similar to Euros 16 and we know how that one ended.
Unlike Argentina who aren't functioning as a team at all, they're playing like a bunch of guys who saw each other for the 1st time. That isn't an excuse for Messi, his drive and mentality was nowhere to be seen yesterday and it seemed like he'd given up despite the fact they're shambles.

Isn't one of the big selling points of Messi that he makes the team better due to his overall game?

This was actually a large part of why I have Messi as better, because he is a playmaker as well. But I have been very disappointed with Messi under Argentina for several years. There is this idea that his playmaking is a bit overrated because of the personnel at Barca and there is growing evidence for it.

 

[JPRouve]

This is as stupid as it gets, the guy names three players from the same team that stays together with their national team and isolate one player, logically you understand why a national based on 6 players from the same club(Alba, Piqué, Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, Villa and Pedro) will have a better chance to win titles than a team made of players coming from 10 clubs. And that's without considering the fact that big clubs are stronger than national teams, they train all year long together and the team is built for the players.

 

[Bojan11]

Euro 2016 was just 2 years ago and most the squads are very, very similar. WC 2014 was twice that length ago and the Argentina team is very different, Portugal, Spain and Croatia's are not.
Thats completely not true either.

The friendly was 6-1 and do you think Messi would have kept those goals out? The game with Portugal was competitive start to finish. You're awful sure of Ronaldo for Morocco but I disagree, Portugal are just a better team who don't play in as proactive way.

Why would I get a drink? That's twice you tried to be smart with your comments but I'll let it slide because anyone trying to say Messi and Ronaldo are players with very similar records in big games who have done very much the same for their national teams seems to irk you.

Firstly you are comparing a friendly to a competitive game, which is ridiculous.

Once Portugal scored the first goal, Spain took control of the game. It was only a De Gea error and amazing free kick that got Portugal back in it.

I’m also pretty sure Spain also didn’t change their manager 3 days before facing Argentina. Which would have obviously had effect on the players. But you carry on making pointless comparisons.

 

[Green_Red]

GOAT should never disappear on the biggest stage. Every player will have bad games but the great players will always shine on the big stage. They always inspire when facing adversity.

Messi is disappearing down a hole in this WC.

Fantastic at his peak but he's no where near it now. Without peak Xavi and Iniesta, Messi seems to have lost some of his sparks. He's not been a factor in the CL for a while. Without having outrageous talent around him, Messi's looking very human.

Looking at the Ballon D'Or, every single time Messi's won it, there's at least another Barcelona player in the top 3. Messi's greatness is almost dependent on having greatness surrounding him.

Ronaldo's the opposite, he never had any teammates in the top 3. He's outlasted Messi, won the last 2 and you can almost bet he'll go ahead in the Ballon D'Or this year despite being older than Messi.

It's not even close.

Mate, that is bollox, and from a United supporter. In 2008 Ronaldo was up front for us in a front 3 of possibly the best front three we've had in the last 20 years of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. That same team he played with arguably the best CB pairing we've ever had. We had nearly two full strength teams at that time. He was surrounded with talent.

When he signed for Real for a world record fee, the world record lasted about 2 weeks before they signed Bale. He has plenty of talent around him in that Real team, to claim otherwise is just stupid.

 

[Dancfc]

Portugal isn't relying on CR to orchestrate their whole play, they rely on him only to score when given the chance, and he is doing that.Argentina have no midfield, pressure on Messi is to create everything.

 

[mancan92]

As of today, they are not good enough for it and they haven't been in a long time, they have zero cohesion and you do nothing at this level without it. And no, they don't have a better team than Portugal, Portugal have solid and sound players even if they are not flashy and they actually play like a team.

Wait what solid and sound players do portugal have that Argentina dont?

Are you serious? Portugal have looked awful in both matches. They conceded 3 in the first game and should have conceded more against morroco they worse than most teams weve seen in the tournament. The only reason they are in a position to win is because of ronaldo. Messi turns up like ronaldo has and they are through

 

[Revan]

Mate, that is bollox, and from a United supporter. In 2008 Ronaldo was up front for us in a front 3 of possibly the best front three we've had in the last 20 years of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. That same team he played with arguably the best CB pairing we've ever had. We had nearly two full strength teams at that time. He was surrounded with talent.

When he signed for Real for a world record fee, the world record lasted about 2 weeks before they signed Bale. He has plenty of talent around him in that Real team, to claim otherwise is just stupid.

He said top 3 in the world. Rooney and Tevez have not been top 3 in the world when we won UCL.

A case can be made for Modric in these years but at the same time you could have always find a better player in the world than him for that third position, be him Griezmann or Neymar. Maybe this year Modric will end in top 3.

Everytime Messi won a Ballon D'Or there was an another Barca player in top 3. Which might be evidence that for Messi to be at his absolute best (and his absolute best is better than Ronald's absolute best) he needs to be surrounded with greatness.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Ronaldo is so far out ahead now.

Even the most die hard Messi fans (me being one of them at one point) have to say now that Ronaldo is the GOAT.

 

[Adebesi]

This is as stupid as it gets, the guy names three players from the same team that stays together with their national team and isolate one player, logically you understand why a national based on 6 players from the same club(Alba, Piqué, Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, Villa and Pedro) will have a better chance to win titles than a team made of players coming from 10 clubs. And that's without considering the fact that big clubs are stronger than national teams, they train all year long together and the team is built for the players.

He's evidently an imbecile. Or is being well paid to act like one.

 

[Ishdalar]

Ok he scored 3 hat tricks and was excellent in the goalless draw vs Holland. Was equally amazing against the Swiss where they won in extra time. Just amazing.

Xavi was the MVP of the 2008 Euro yet he only scored one goal, fraud.
Iniesta MVP of the 2012 Euro, 0 goals
Zagorakis, MVP of the 2004 Euro, another goalless phony
ZIdane, MVP of Euro 2000, 2 goals, Kluiver was robbed
Sammer, MVP in England 96. A Defender? HOW!
Korea 2002, Ronaldo scores 8, Kahn gets the MVP

Is it that hard to believe that a player can be the best of a tournament and not score in 4 games?.

 

[Peyroteo]

Portugal isn't relying on CR to orchestrate their whole play, they rely on him only to score when given the chance, and he is doing that.Argentina have no midfield, pressure on Messi is to create everything.

If Ronaldo stood still in the middle of the pitch we would create nothing too. Ronaldo's scored 4 goals, a penalty which he won after dribbling, a free kick in which he won after a long kick from the CBs, a corner and a simple horizontal pass across the box. Did Messi not have the exact same chances to score?

It's like you people don't even watch th games or understand how the sport works. Chances aren't created just by a player coming deep and trying to play 50 different short pass combinations, that's stupid. Messi's had more service to him in this World Cup than Ronaldo so far, the problem is he isn't Ronaldo and he can't do what Ronaldo does which makes it a lot tougher on his teammates to create for him.