Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[shamans]

But this is my whole point, a goal from Eder while Ronaldo was spectating is the difference. As i said earlier, if its Aguero or Messi himself on the end of that ball Higuain is in WC final, we're not having this discussion. The defining moments for both national teams in their biggest finals have come from team mates, not Leo and Ronaldo. Eder misses and Higuain scores everything is reversed.

That is simply not the difference. Ronaldo helped a much, much poorer team to the final. On top of that, Messi had one penalty to kick and he missed it himself. You cannot blame his mates.

Should I also say Ronaldo would have won Euro 2004 if he had better team mates? You can't pic and chose and make excuses. The difference is the trophies.

 

[padr81]

I really hate the way people go on about ronnys attitude and ego when to me messi strikes me as a spoiled little brat who gets in a strop when things dont go his way, yet nothing is ever said against him.

The way he stormed straight down the tunnel yesterday after a shambles of a performance without even considering approaching the fans who'd travelled to russia to watch him play shit is downright disrespectful.

Now reading the sky sports piece in the team saying how messi wants a certain formation to help him play better. Hes a fecking player in a team, if he cant play well in the tactrics his manager sets up them fecking drop him. It's like the world has to revolve around him at times. Decent player like but I've got a major dislike for him.

Its actually kind of like the Jose v Pep thing, both have ego's the size of mountains, both have ridiculous talent. One if just more outright about it. Anyone who believes Messi is not big headed is deluded. The difference is Ronaldo like Neymar and Pogba like being in the limelight so receive stick for it from so called "real men" while people who are less in the public eye like Messi, Bale receive less of it.

 

[P-Nut]

Again, I suggest you actually open up the link and not get intimidated by long words. They address the China, India and USA issue regarding population.

It's kind of shocking how people are dismissing the population argument without actually even reading the source of the argument, which is authored by professionals at one of the "Big FOUR" accounting firms...that's one heck of a dangerous combination of ignorance and arrogance!

Maybe Croatia has a better midfield, but not an Earth-shattering difference. If you want a comparison in Earth-shattering differences in squads, look at Argentina vs. Iceland!

Anyways, you would think a team with the so-called "GOAT" could overcome a marginally better Croatian midfield, especially when you consider Iceland's heroics against a far superior (on paper) Argentina team. Instead, Argentina got wiped out.

So let me ask you a simple question: If Iceland can hold Argentina, why the h*** is Argentina with the GOAT Messi getting hammered by Croatia? Because Croatia is the "better team?" Well if the "better team" wins, why did Argentina tie against Iceland? Is that because you are now asserting that Argentina is no better than Iceland?

That is factually rebutted by two sources:

1) Population argument published by PWC
2) FIFA rankings

Also, that is factually rebutted by the presence of the Messi fanbois, who claim that Messi is the GOAT. GOAT should easily make up for any difference in ability between ARgentina and Iceland.

BBbbbut excuses start...

I think you're the only person I know that believes the FIFA rankings are right.

 

[padr81]

Yeah if only messi was at the end of that chance.

I don't believe thats the chance I'm on about... Do you think Ronaldo has never missed from there?
Higuain was smack bang in the middle of the goal, 1v1 with the keeper.

@shamans - Penalty kick in what? The Copa, yes that's on him completely, as is the Iceland one and a big part of why Argentina will likely be going home. He'll hardly be remembered as the greater player because of it. I've also openly questioned Messi since 2016 right in the post you quoted.

Trophies are not the be all and end all. Yaya Toure has led Ivory Coast to more international titles than players like Scholes, Messi, Cantona, Keane etc...

 

[kouroux]

I really hate the way people go on about ronnys attitude and ego when to me messi strikes me as a spoiled little brat who gets in a strop when things dont go his way, yet nothing is ever said against him.

The way he stormed straight down the tunnel yesterday after a shambles of a performance without even considering approaching the fans who'd travelled to russia to watch him play shit is downright disrespectful.

Now reading the sky sports piece in the team saying how messi wants a certain formation to help him play better. Hes a fecking player in a team, if he cant play well in the tactrics his manager sets up them fecking drop him. It's like the world has to revolve around him at times. Decent player like but I've got a major dislike for him.

Glad I wasn't the only who noticed it too. That was shocking

 

[padr81]

Glad I wasn't the only who noticed it too. That was shocking

He's far from the only player to do that at either international or club level after a bad game and terrible performance. Neymar being a recent one.

 

[MJJ]

I don't believe thats the chance I'm on about... Do you think Ronaldo has never missed from there?
Higuain was smack bang in the middle of the goal, 1v1 with the keeper.

@shamans - Penalty kick in what? The Copa, yes that's on him completely, as is the Iceland one and a big part of why Argentina will likely be going home. He'll hardly be remembered as the greater player because of it. I've also openly questioned Messi since 2016 right in the post you quoted.

Trophies are not the be all and end all. Yaya Toure has led Ivory Coast to more international titles than players like Scholes, Messi, Cantona, Keane etc...

Want me to post the chance that messi missed against roma or pk?

And did I mention Ronaldo? Point is every player misses chances but only higuain is crucified over it.

 

[kouroux]

He's far from the only player to do that at either international or club level after a bad game and terrible performance. Neymar being a recent one.

It doesn't make it any less shocking. He's their star player and captain ffs. The least he could do is acknowledge, specially when they showed great support despite the terrible match.

 

[shamans]

I don't believe thats the chance I'm on about... Do you think Ronaldo has never missed from there?
Higuain was smack bang in the middle of the goal, 1v1 with the keeper.

@shamans - Penalty kick in what? The Copa, yes that's on him completely, as is the Iceland one and a big part of why Argentina will likely be going home. He'll hardly be remembered as the greater player because of it. I've also openly questioned Messi since 2016 right in the post you quoted.

Trophies are not the be all and end all. Yaya Toure has led Ivory Coast to more international titles than players like Scholes, Messi, Cantona, Keane etc...

When two players are neck to neck trophies are a huge differentiator.

 

[padr81]

Want me to post the chance that messi missed against roma or pk?

And did I mention Ronaldo? Point is every player misses chances but only higuain is crucified over it.

Higuain is crucified because of the WC final and because he does it relentlessly and is a notorious bottler in big games. But the WC final one was huge and the biggest chance of the game. Of course Messi misses chances like everyone else, don't remember saying he doesn't. It's not the fact Higuain misses its the fact he completely shits the bed for lack of a better explaination.



Apologies about the number of times the guy shows the first miss, guess he's Argentinian and quite angry.

 

[Zehner]

When the obvious goes against you of course you have to "scratch deeper" and perform all sorts of mental gymnastics

The idea that football's more than scoring goals is mental gymnastics? Nice.

 

[MJJ]

Higuain is crucified because of the WC final and because he does it relentlessly and is a notorious bottler in big games. But the WC final one was huge and the biggest chance of the game. Of course Messi misses chances like everyone else, don't remember saying he doesn't. It's not the fact Higuain misses its the fact he completely shits the bed for lack of a better explaination.



Apologies about the number of times the guy shows the first miss, guess he's Argentinian and quite angry.

You get that with higuain, if you want a more composed striker play somebody else like that aguero guy who you have on the bench. The reason he gets crucified is because he denied messi the chance to win the world cup. People forget that he scored vs belgium to put them through,

 

[padr81]

When two players are neck to neck trophies are a huge differentiator.

Messi's got 30, Ronaldo 25 (maybe 26 dunno exactly when that stat is from)... and as I said I'm in camp Ronaldo as I believe he is the best in the world now if not the GoaT.

Career goals per game, Messi has a better ratio.
Career assists per game, Messi has a better ratio.

Stats, trophies etc.. Messi has more but my eyes tell me Ronaldo is the better currently and its the same for most.

 

[MJJ]

Messi's got 30, Ronaldo 25 (maybe 26 dunno exactly when that stat is from)... and as I said I'm in camp Ronaldo as I believe he is the best in the world now if not the GoaT.

Career goals per game, Messi has a better ratio.
Career assists per game, Messi has a better ratio.

Stats, trophies etc.. Messi has more but my eyes tell me Ronaldo is the better currently and its the same for most.

I would say messi is(or was) the better player but ronaldo has had a better career.

 

[padr81]

You get that with higuain, if you want a more composed striker play somebody else like that aguero guy who you have on the bench. The reason he gets crucified is because he denied messi the chance to win the world cup. People forget that he scored vs belgium to put them through,

yes you get that with him, but those are 3 guilt edged chances to win 3 international tournies... what your are pretty much implying "Messi has failed at international level because the coach played Higuain instead of Aguero?", thats somehow Messi's fault. Messi carries his share of the blame for Argentina's poor showings since 2016 particularly 2016 and this WC without doubt but his failure to win something is not on him. Its also not just Argentina fans who see Higuain as a bottler but Madrid fans too.

I don't forget Higuain scored against Belgium, it was a good goal too but Higuain is not a man for big moments. He's likely to score an instinctive worldie at anytime, but him in 1 v 1 with something on the line and he's likely to bottle it. The huge difference is Eder stepped up (maybe with a little help from Lloris) and well Higuain at Messi's peak didn't.

 

[padr81]

I would say messi is(or was) the better player but ronaldo has had a better career.

I'd agree with that 1000%, I think Ronaldo will also outlast him but I disagree when people say Messi could have done more for Argentina (pre-2016). In 2016 he took a terrible PK and in this WC he's been terrible and probably poorish since that final but Messi's lack of big trophy particularly a WC I don't put on him at all.

 

[shamans]

Messi's got 30, Ronaldo 25 (maybe 26 dunno exactly when that stat is from)... and as I said I'm in camp Ronaldo as I believe he is the best in the world now if not the GoaT.

Career goals per game, Messi has a better ratio.
Career assists per game, Messi has a better ratio.

Stats, trophies etc.. Messi has more but my eyes tell me Ronaldo is the better currently and its the same for most.

If you think Messi is better and you back it up by stuff like goals, assists, trophies etc then that is fair but just don't like the weird arguments that involve team players, that equate Messi performing in a final to Ronaldo actually winning it and "trophies don't matter that much"

 

[shamans]

The idea that football's more than scoring goals is mental gymnastics? Nice.

No. Just the idea that missing a penalty that would help your team win is a better performance than a hattrick against spain that wins your team a point if you think hard enough.

 

[padr81]

If you think Messi is better and you back it up by stuff like goals, assists, trophies etc then that is fair but just don't like the weird arguments that involve team players, that equate Messi performing in a final to Ronaldo actually winning it and "trophies don't matter that much"

I don't even think Messi is the better player (certainly not currently), I think people on here are OTT about him not winning an international tournie and about Ronaldo's contribution to the one his team won. It takes more than just talent to win imho, particularly something like the Euro's, WC, CL so I find it unfair to split great players on those. I think we'll be going round in circles depending on what we think defines greatness.

 

[Balerion]

*Looking at the Slovakia team in WC* ... right...

*Looking at Iceland part-timers*

Poor Messi. Playing with such dross in the Argentina nt...

I think true greatness should shine everywhere. Make of that what you will.

 

[shamans]

I don't even think Messi is the better player (certainly not currently), I think people on here are OTT about him not winning an international tournie and about Ronaldo's contribution to the one his team won. It takes more than just talent to win imho, particularly something like the Euro's, WC, CL so I find it unfair to split great players on those. I think we'll be going round in circles depending on what we think defines greatness.

I know you don't that. I don't have a problem with people who think that is what I meant to say. I just have a problem with how Ronaldos stronger international performances aren't seen as a pretty incredible achievement where Messi has fell short if you compare him to Ronaldo in the international scene. People are just not willing to accept that and just so they know you can think Messi is the better player while accepting he has failed on quite a few occasions where Ronaldo hasn't internationally.

 

[shamans]

*Looking at the Slovakia team in WC* ... right...

*Looking at Iceland part-timers*

Poor Messi. Playing with such dross in the Argentina nt...

I think true greatness should shine everywhere. Make of that what you will.

Dude what do you know. Have you ever played with Aguero? He is a Sunday league striker. Poor Messi!

 

[Balerion]

Dude what do you know. Have you ever played with Aguero? He is a Sunday league striker. Poor Messi!

Seems like it by looking at this thread. Coming from SVK, it's like watching rich guys complaining about whose bentley is more dusty.

Seriously.

If you can be great only in your comfort zone, then maybe, you are not as great as you thought.

(I come up with this pearls of wisdom myself, if anyone was wondering)

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Ronaldo's game against Spain was so good that it's made the rest of his international career 10/10 performances.

 

[Zehner]

No. Just the idea that missing a penalty that would help your team win is a better performance than a hattrick against spain that wins your team a point if you think hard enough.

I never said that Messi's performance was better. Give me a quote where I suggested such things. In fact I praised Ronaldo for his game against Spain - and not because of his goals but because of his overall contribution in the first half which was pretty good. Since he's had the three goals on top of it, he's comfortably had a better WC than Messi until this point (and as things look, Messi won't catch up).

I only said that I don't understand the criticism of Messi against Iceland when I see video footage like the one I already shared three or four times. I can't get my head around the fact that anyone can suggest that this was a bad game. It's like everything that happens two or three contacts before a goal doesn't count at all when that are very often the most decisive moments. If that's the way you evaluate a football game, you should save your time and only watch highlight videos.

 

[WR10]

A quote from Simeone's recent rant about Argentina's loss:
“[This is also useful] to see that Messi is very good, but he’s very good because he has extraordinary teammates. And the question I ask you: If you had to choose between Messi and Ronaldo for a regular team, who would you choose?”

 

[shamans]

I never said that Messi's performance was better. Give me a quote where I suggested such things. In fact I praised Ronaldo for his game against Spain - and not because of his goals but because of his overall contribution in the first half which was pretty good. Since he's had the three goals on top of it, he's comfortably had a better WC than Messi until this point (and as things look, Messi won't catch up).

I only said that I don't understand the criticism of Messi against Iceland when I see video footage like the one I already shared three or four times. I can't get my head around the fact that anyone can suggest that this was a bad game. It's like everything that happens two or three contacts before a goal doesn't count at all when that are very often the most decisive moments. If that's the way you evaluate a football game, you should save your time and only watch highlight videos.

Then I’m sorry but you see football from a totally different eye than the majority of us. Team captain missed a penalty and was wasteful throughout. He had a poor game. Yes he didn’t hide (he did against Croatia ) but was very poor.

 

[shamans]

Ronaldo's game against Spain was so good that it's made the rest of his international career 10/10 performances.

The same argument can be said for Zidanes volley in the final or any big moments . Big moments create a player especially when they keep happening and there’s nothing wrong with that

Not to mention countless times ronaldo has carried Portugal

 

[Class of 63]

 

[Trophy Room]

What a guy

 

[Daysleeper]

The same argument can be said for Zidanes volley in the final or any big moments . Big moments create a player especially when they keep happening and there’s nothing wrong with that

Not to mention countless times ronaldo has carried Portugal

And what about the times Messi carried Argentina?! He’s done it many times. Without him they don’t get out of the group stage in the 2014 WC and without him they don’t even come close to qualifying this World Cup.

 

[Daysleeper]

Argentina won one qualifying match without Messi. ONE. before Aguero vs. Iceland no one had scored a competitive Argentina goal without his involvement for 600 days. Six. Hundred. Days.

 

[Peyroteo]

Argentina won one qualifying match without Messi. ONE. before Aguero vs. Iceland no one had scored a competitive Argentina goal without his involvement for 600 days. Six. Hundred. Days.

In those Six. Hundred. Days. they played a grand total of S.I.X matches. 6 games in which he scored 4 out 5 Argentina goals, 1 penalty vs Chile and 3 vs Ecuador who were playing their B team.

Who cares about what actually happened? Let's sentionalize it like politicians... football propaganda

Messi is good enough to not need people spreading pathetic bullshit like this.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Not to mention countless times ronaldo has carried Portugal

Yeah see I don't agree with this at all. Even with his Euro win his international performances have been nothing more than decent to me and on a par with Messi's. It's only now that Ronaldo has outperformed Messi and it's been what two games? I didn't even see the Morocco match but after Messi's terrible performance yesterday I'm willing to guess it was better but people now claiming Ronaldo has dominated international football are being silly when this is the first tournament where he has actually looked like the best player in the world. Messi did alright in the group stages at the last world cup too.

 

[Peyroteo]

Yeah see I don't agree with this at all. Even with his Euro win his international performances have been nothing more than decent to me and on a par with Messi's. It's only now that Ronaldo has outperformed Messi and it's been what two games? I didn't even see the Morocco match but after Messi's terrible performance yesterday I'm willing to guess it was better but people now claiming Ronaldo has dominated international football are being silly when this is the first tournament where he has actually looked like the best player in the world. Messi did alright in the group stages at the last world cup too.

Euro 2012? I have the feeling that if we win the penalty shootout vs Spain in 2012 but lose the one vs Poland in 2016 people would actually rate Ronaldo's international achievements higher. It's pretty weird.

Ronaldo hasn't dominated international football for one tournament from start to finish but he has been consistently very good and has done better than Messi if you take into account the whole of their careers. And that was the case before this World Cup even started.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

And what about the times Messi carried Argentina?! He’s done it many times. Without him they don’t get out of the group stage in the 2014 WC and without him they don’t even come close to qualifying this World Cup.

Not sure what point you're trying to make.

It looks like (I could be wrong) that you're saying he's great because he's helped a team qualify for the knockouts of one WC and helped them qualify for another. Is that right?

 

[shamans]

Yeah see I don't agree with this at all. Even with his Euro win his international performances have been nothing more than decent to me and on a par with Messi's. It's only now that Ronaldo has outperformed Messi and it's been what two games? I didn't even see the Morocco match but after Messi's terrible performance yesterday I'm willing to guess it was better but people now claiming Ronaldo has dominated international football are being silly when this is the first tournament where he has actually looked like the best player in the world. Messi did alright in the group stages at the last world cup too.

If you think Ronaldo’s must win game hattrick 4 years ago, or peroformance of the tournament vs Hungary in euro 2016 was “decent” then you are biased or you haven’t followed his international career

 

[MalcolmTucker]

If you think Ronaldo’s must win game hattrick 4 years ago, or peroformance of the tournament vs Hungary in euro 2016 was “decent” then you are biased or you haven’t followed his international career

You said countless times... that's all of two games, and against Sweden and Hungary (and performance of the tournament? Wasn't even the best performance against Hungary in Euro 16, Hazard played a lot better vs them).

Anyway, Messi has had similar games internationally and better tournaments than Ronaldo - Ronaldo is 2-0 this round but it seems people like you want to elevate his previous performances for some reason as if there's been a massive gulf between the two up until now

 

[Zehner]

What a guy

This video is so American ^^ No wonder all the US guys in here fancy Cristiano so much. Incredibly superficial.

As of right now, Cristiano has won one (!) major trophy without a brillant team surrounding him and this was the Euro 2016 which is widely considered to have had the most undeserving winner since Greek in 2004. This fluke apart, Messi and Cristiano have won no international competition without having some of the best players of the world supporting them.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

Messi Fans Logic,


> When Argentina win & qualify to WC: Goat Messi carrying them. Messi is the reason they are playing word cup. No credit whatsoever for teammates effort.

> When Argentina lose: Teammates fault. Teammates let Messi down.

> When Higuain missed penalty: Higuain destroying Messi's dreams. Higuains fault for Messi not winning Copa America.

> When Messi missed Penalty: He's human too. He's also allowed to miss.

...funny how teammates only come up when the team Messi plays hits rock bottom.


Hypocrites.