Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
Agree with your last sentence (down to the manager's tactics though), but definitely not with the bolded part - he carried them against Spain but was hardly involved after his goal against Morocco. If not for a great save by Rui Patricio, Portugal would've been on the grand total of 2 points and would've needed to beat a tough Iran side to proceed, which isn't that particularly great either. It's all just narrative, but the fact that Portugal didn't concede after they went up yesterday had little to do with Ronaldo, just like the fact that Argentina got behind yesterday had little to do with Messi. One player can only do so much (which Ronaldo did against Spain and Messi has failed to do so far).
I have seen that said a lot, are people basing this on anything substantial? From what I understand Icardi is a bit of a cnut and no one likes him while Dybala is seen like a Messi-bis which is kind of true and since managers already have hard time to build a positive framework for Messi, they are probably shitless scared to add Dybala. And anyway the problem for Argentina is that no one is able to reliably take the ball from the goalkeeper to Messi/Dybala/Higuain/Aguero.
Argentina probably needs to do what Jacquet did with France after the 94 debacle and phase out all the players that don't fit into a coherent team, they need to build an actual team without consideration for names, for France it meant that guys like Lama, Cantona, Ginola and then latter Anelka.
I think they did. They're crazy about football and their NT there anyway.
Surely we have an Argy or two here to explain.
Argentina have incredible attacking players though: Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Dybala, Icardi...Currently Germany don't have a sinlge attacking player like these ones. Muller has been mediocre recently.
Btw Messi has missed 4 of his last 7 penalties. Just to put things into perspective for all those who laughed during the CL that anyone could have scored the penalty against Juvé. Not even that, recently against Spain with the same thing being said and Messi missing less than 24 hours later.
There's a saying about Argentinians
What is the best business to get into?
To buy an Argentinian for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth.
Far as I remember, all my Argentinian friends thought they were favourites for the World Cup, this goes back to 1994 in my mind, but probably was already the case since they won in 78'
Who's the better player, James or Bryant?Btw Messi has missed 4 of his last 7 penalties. Just to put things into perspective for all those who laughed during the CL that anyone could have scored the penalty against Juvé. Not even that, recently against Spain with the same thing being said and Messi missing less than 24 hours later.
Who was the better player when it mattered most?
I'll get my coat.
Expect a flurry of random tweets now.
What?
I thought you were an American sports fan, never mind then. Just wanted to show that "stepping up and not being a choker" isn't the end all be all.
I wonder whether there was this much debate when Ronaldo's Portugal crashed out in '14 against the mighty US of A whilst Messi guided his team past the group stage on to the WC final.
Who's the better player, James or Jordan?
James scores about the same but he assists and rebounds more...
Of course they should expect to be in the contention when they supposedly have one of the best players of all time, the best striker in the Premier League, the best striker in Serie A, not to mention the other household names.
No, because people weren't ignorant enough to completely ignore the context in which that happened.
People trying to compare Ronaldo's World Cup in 2014 to Messi's current one are being incredibly dishonest.
But they are now?
Yeah well to be in contention and seeing yourself as a favorite is a bit different. Looks delusion was strong in this one for many of their fans
The best players often win. So you can't blame a nation for having high hopes.
Yeah but James got swept thoughWho's the better player, James or Jordan?
James scores about the same but he assists and rebounds more...
If that's what you're doing then yes.
Ronaldo was badly injured for the 2014 WC, our second best player in Pepe got sent off at the start of the game vs Germany and missed the second game through suspension, Coentrão and Patricio were our third and fourth best players and they got injured along with a couple of other important players.
Ronaldo was by far our best player and if we got 4 points out of that group then it was because of him. So yes, people trying to compare that World Cup with Messi's current World Cup are either being ignorant or dishonest.
Uh, yes it does matter. There’s a reason it’s called Mamba Mentality and Lebron as great as he is is 3-6 in finals. And why people would pick Jordan/Kobe over him due to that killer instinct which he doesn’t possess. Doesn’t mean he’s not great but you get what I’m saying.
Well yea but Portugal are only relevant because of Ronaldo. That Argentina squad and this Argentina squad more or less have the same number of quality players. And sure you can say that but disregard that Messi didn’t score a single goal in the knockout stages.
When they play as a team, the best players have the biggest chances of winning no doubt. You won' t see me arguing with that point but Argentina stopped being a team a while ago. Their WC was based on Messi pulling off miracles after miracles which is very low percentage tactics. If you go into a tournament like that, chances are it'll be very tough on you.
I'd say that's a perfect comparison, they both have a poor supporting cast (their third best player "on paper" yesterday was a 48-year old Mascherano), and both might end up with 4 points, beating a lesser team, drawing with an equal team and losing to a superior team.
Since Beckenbauer in 1972, only Ronaldo and Rivaldo have managed to win a Ballon d'Or before a World Cup. I'd say at international level, being the best and World Cup success don't go in hand.
So one of them has to be named the greatest of all time and the other a fraud? These people are beyond ridiculous. I'm starting to feel a bit bad for Messi, he's not having a good World Cup but people shouldn't have such a short-term memory. It will always be a personal preference between these two as they have proved over and over again that they are unmatched in modern day football.
Messi is one of the GOATs, just not THE GOAT. A failed World Cup should never change that
Well the term is used in relevance. In terms of international play which there is a night and day difference.
Messi being the best of all time is a valid opinion. I'm in the Ronaldo camp, purely based on how he inspired me in my life.
If you ignore these differences:
1) Ronaldo was badly injured to the point he shouldn't have even played and fecked up his knees ever since
2) Germany are much stronger than Croatia, US stronger than Iceland and Ghana stronger than Nigeria
3) Ronaldo played better
4) Messi had better teammates around him
Then yes, there were no differences.
Messi so far has played the worst international tournament either of them have played in their whole careers.
Messi had the chance to retire and let Argentina move on...but looks like he liked the idea of being indulged instead of doing what's best for the team. It feels like all of these comments about doing things for Messi, and letting Messi down come from the man himself.
It's a bit like his situation at Barca, where he says he loves Barcelona and wants to play there forever but he has a ridiculous wage packet that Barcelona have to plan around because it takes up so much of their budget.
I used to think Messi was a more likeable person than Ronaldo, but he seems to be better at hiding his unlikable parts.
It's a bit like his situation at Barca, where he says he loves Barcelona and wants to play there forever but he has a ridiculous wage packet that Barcelona have to plan around because it takes up so much of their budget.
I used to think Messi was a more likeable person than Ronaldo, but he seems to be better at hiding his unlikable parts.
I'd say it's similar.
We're only two group games into the tournament. Portugal can easily crash out against Uruguay or Russia and all this debate would be for nothing.
People have seen these players play every week for over a decade, that is a better metric of their ability.
Football has changed from what it was. The World Cup, of course, is still the sport's major tournament, but the mystique it had before the age of the internet is diminishing, and with it it's importance.
Did I ever call Salah a pussy for going off the pitch??? Wtf
And yes, Messi's teammates for this World Cup aren't just better than Ronaldo's for the last World Cup. They're much better.
We could easily go out against Iran next round and Argentina can end up going through and winning the tournament, I'm talkng about what has happened so far
Argentina look no more outrageously bad than Portugal did in the Euros Groups to be fair. Hungary, Austria and Iceland aren't exactly Croatia....current hyperbole aside, I think most would agree they are a superior team.
Mind you, I can't see a big turnaround. Portugal don't exactly react the same way Argentina do, likely because they don't have the same silly expectations despite knowing the teams limitations - but even in the Figo led Golden Generation they didn't meltdown as a nation when losing, or lump insane pressure on them. That kind of stuff is tough mentally, forget for Messi, but for the others too. Sack Sampoali mid cup...mad suggestion, what do they wanna do, get Diego Simeone in for a game?
Mind you, I can't see a big turnaround. Portugal don't exactly react the same way Argentina do, likely because they don't have the same silly expectations despite knowing the teams limitations - but even in the Figo led Golden Generation they didn't meltdown as a nation when losing, or lump insane pressure on them. That kind of stuff is tough mentally, forget for Messi, but for the others too. Sack Sampoali mid cup...mad suggestion, what do they wanna do, get Diego Simeone in for a game?
I'm not arguing that Ronaldo has been great and Messi has been poor.
I'm saying people should stop drooling over Ronaldo and bashing Messi based on what they think should be happening, rather than the reality on the pitch. Or, as someone else said a few pages ago, "because Argentina should be beating Iceland since they have a much bigger population". Like I said, the accusations against Messi are way over the top and it's as if the past twelve years never even happened.
Argentina is bang average and not even in the top half of squads present at the WC, the way I see it. It's on Messi to improve them and drag them through, which he failed to do so far. But let's not impose imaginary expectations on him either, which one should know if the CONMEBOL qualifiers were anything to go by (they didn't lie, obviously).
Ronaldo has won. Someone change my vote to Ronaldo.
Still can't stand the guy though.
Still can't stand the guy though.
Portugal loses: Ronaldo flop
Madrid loses: There's no tap in so he can't perform
Portugal and Madrid wins: The players are helping him
Barca and Argentina wins: Messi is GOAT, does it all by himself
Barca and Argentina loses: Messi deserves better.
Insanity.
Madrid loses: There's no tap in so he can't perform
Portugal and Madrid wins: The players are helping him
Barca and Argentina wins: Messi is GOAT, does it all by himself
Barca and Argentina loses: Messi deserves better.
Insanity.
I agree. It's a matter of opinion but it's not completely wrong to have it. Easily with Ronaldo the best player I have ever watched. I think the GOAT is impossible to determine fairly as football has a long history and it has evolved way too much
Bookies are as unbiased as someone can be (otherwise they will be out of business) and they had Argentina as fifth favorite (after Brazil, Germany, France and Spain).
- Status