Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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VancouverUtdFan said:
And enough of this BS that Messi has a shit international squad. The audacity and lengths people go to exonerate this fella of an ounce of blame is ridiculous.

Argentina are eye to eye with Brazil, Germany, France. Portugal are only barely scraping that conversation because of Ronaldo. Take him out of the team and they’re no different than Iceland. Take Messi out of Argentina and they still have a handful of quality players, something that can’t be said for Ronaldo and Portugal.

...but hey, at least Messi got a photo op with some goats and ruined his own legacy by bottling the WC. So entitled, so glad he’s been exposed. Hangs his head and doesn’t inspire his teammates. It’s all fine and sunshine’s when things are going well but when they’re not, don’t even bother looking to him.
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Your bias for Ronaldo shines through your whole post which kind of makes it pointless to discuss with you since you won't change your mind anyway. You're including tweets of random people apparently. You're including stats of "scored against X number of teams", that is while Messi has to play the same 9 teams over and over again in qualifiers while Ronaldo has all of Europe to play against, so they're pretty pointless.

Portugal has a better team than Argentina. Names on a paper mean nothing if the manager can't bring them to play together. And sure, part of the blame for their sorry performance falls on Messi. Ronaldo deserves huge credit because he's the only reason they didn't lose to Spain, and he's clearly the more motivated player and better performer at the moment, but I'd still rank Messi higher even though he's clearly not showing it at the moment. If he continues like this and Ronaldo does as well, it will be impossible to seperate them after their careers or Ronaldo might even edge it. For me though, no one will ever come close to Messi's peak which lasted for almost an entire decade, and I could be mistaken and it could've been different on here but for a very long time there was no debate about who was the better player between them.
 
Ban said:
Argentina is not an eye to eye to Germany, Brasil or France. Not a chance. They have a good attack, but the rest of the team bar Otamendi and Mascherano is average. So in that regard they're only slightly better than Portugal.
Portugal has a working system since 2016 and now how to play to Ronaldo's strengths whereas Argentina team is full of problems starting with a manager who lost the plot.
I'm not saying this as an excuse for Messi, in this point of time Ronaldo is clearly better. Team or no team Messi was nowhere to be seen yesterday and pressusre has gotten up to him it seems while Ronaldo is totally pumped, enjoying himself and constantly moving giving his teammates an option to pass.

But as I said Argentinian team is worse than Brasil or Germany and saying they're on par with them is totally wrong.
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Exactly, today Ronaldo is better, he is in form while Messi isn't. But acting as if Argentina are a good team, is something else.
 
JPRouve said:
It doesn't mean much, they don't play the same role, Ronaldo has been a winger/inside forward for the best part of his career while Messi has been more central. Genuine wide players cover more distance that's part of their role. It's also irrelevant when it comes to quality. The one thing that I think is true is that with Ronaldo, you have more flexibility, he is a more versatile athletes which means that there are more team combinations that would suit him, Messi being a playmaking-goalscorer, he needs to have teammates that suit his skill set. In a way I'm just parroting SAF, so I'm being useless here.
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Ronaldo hasn't been a proper wide player for years. It's a daft explanation of the difference in their work rate. No player in any position on the field bar the keeper runs less than Messi.
 
Revan said:
Waiting @Ishdalar to post a video on how great he was yesterday but got let down by his teammates, and stats don't reflect his majestic performance.

On real world though, absolutely pathetic performance, can go down as his worst ever at a time when they really needed him to be GOAT Messi.
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Disasterclass.


Don’t forget his poor body language, giving up, frustration in fouls, and bottled chance in front of the goal line.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Ronaldo - 67 in competitive games, 17 in friendlies

Messi - 34 in competitive games, 30 in friendlies
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67 in competitive games

5 vs Armenia, 5 vs Latvia, 5 vs Andorra, 3 vs Estonia, 2 vs Luxembourg, 2 vs Azerbaijan, 2 vs Kazakhstan 2 vs Cyprus: 26 in total.

Competitive games

 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Obviously they’re worse than them but they’re in that sams discussion/group as them.

...why do Messi fans act like he plays with scrubs? He has Aguero, Otamendi, Di Maria, Dybala, etc. Portugal was awful vs Iran but Ronaldo was able to score and get the W. Messi isn’t the same player he was 3 years ago and Ronaldo at 33 yrs old is still at the top of his game.
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Dont call me a Messi fan please. I like him more but I'm far from a Messi fan especially since I aknowledge Ronaldo is better right now and things have changed. The problem is you act just like them on the other side of the coin. You said he needs Xavis and Iniestas like he played with them the whole career and didn't win titles without Xavi and Iniesta on a downward spiral of his career. Barcelona's team from this year was far from brilliant and he dragged them to the title. He still has it at a club level but overall Ronaldo is on top and that's clear to see. But as I said there's no need to put him down and paint all his successes as something he has to thank to others like he's a man who just scores from the chances Iniesta and Xavi put to him on a plate. That's an argument from 5, 6 years ago and still silly.

SOme of those tweets are silly, you're putting a comparison of ratings of both teams from 1st game to prove a point....
 
RobinLFC said:
Portugal has a better team than Argentina. Names on a paper mean nothing if the manager can't bring them to play together.
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Uhhh, you know what I’m saying and are taking it out of context. Messi has handful of quality players to work with and is failing. Ronaldo doesn’t have that same privilege and is making it work.

So what if they aren’t playing? Fact is one is far superior talented players than the other. If you’re really taking that to heart, do you honestly think Iceland are better than Argentina because they are playing better as a “team”? Yea, no.
 
Ishdalar said:
I already said before that his workrate can't be defended, but that still, if that's a flaw in his game I have to eat, in order for him to do all the other things, I'll do it gladly.

Same way I can point out Ronaldo having literally half the touches than any other Real Madrid field player on a UCL semis (Isco got subbed in the halftime for Asensio) and 99% of you guys would say "who cares, what's important is that he scores his chances, not how many passes or touches he has".

It's literally the same biased point of view, on two aspects of the game (distance covered vs involvement in the game) considered basic at top level, you're not sad when Cris plays like that, we're not rabid when Leo doesn't break the 8km barrier, who cares?.
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Man, I don't care about Ronaldo :lol: The problem again, is that any criticism on Messi is seen as given by a Ronaldo fan. That's a terrible and childish way of looking at things.
 
It should be worrying that all of Messi's counterargument seem to be plucked from years ago.
WC 2014
CL 2015
Certain fans seem to treat this 3 CL and EC title over the last 3 years as an afterthought. Oh the argument is already won, the legendary run that Ronaldo is on is inconsequential because of where they stood 5 Years ago.
Did Messi just give up? Get too comfortable? His CL moments have dried up big time as well. His memorable moments are becoming confined to La Liga which is ridiculous for a man of his talents.
Maybe he should have moved on from Barca a few years ago.
 
7even said:
Football is a team sport so leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma is all part of the judgement. Another very important factor is the ability to adapt to different teammates, different environment and different challenges. That’s why most of us rank WC results as a very important factor when we judge who’s the GOAT.

Pelé won three WC, scoring goals both in his first and in his last final, twelve years apart. That’s a huge achievement. Maradona almost singlehanded took his NT to a WC trophy 1986. I saw all his games in that tournament and it’s not an overstatement to say that apart from being head and shoulders above every other player around him, he was also a warrior and a general in one persona. His swagger, mentality and charisma was something else. So when comparing Messi it’s hard to overlook Maradona’s WC achievement.

Talanted wise with the ball to his feet and as a playmaker Messi is above Ronaldo. Hands down. But if we include determination, leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma then Maradona and Ronaldo is on another level to Messi. A GOAT can’t give up, he can’t look defeated and he can’t let his team mates down when they need him the most. That’s my view.

Finally. Armando and Cristiano act like superstars, the look like superstars and they perform like superstars when it counts. Just like Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. That’s hard to overlook.
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This is the same conclusion I've arrived to and something which is more apparent in this world cup than ever before. This world cup has sealed the debate in Ronaldo's favour. Messi is supposed to be the better all round player and teammate but the coach is struggling to fit world class players around him. Give those same players to Ronaldo and I guarantee Argentina wouldn't be in this predicament.
 
Treble said:
Stupid question. Can you read?
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Yes, since this is what I quoted.

Treble said:
Basically, you concede that he is so effective in attack because he is carried by his team mates. They compensate for his poor work rate and his lack of defensive contributions.

But Ronaldo manages to contribute in attack without being a passenger for most of the game. How does Ronaldo manage to be fresh while running further than Messi every fecking game for the last 10 years?
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Not a stat in sight, you provided stats later, but carry on being rude :rolleyes: I have no time for it.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Uhhh, you know what I’m saying and are taking it out of context. Messi has handful of quality players to work with and is failing. Ronaldo doesn’t have that same privilege and is making it work.

So what if they aren’t playing? Fact is one is far superior talented players than the other. If you’re really taking that to heart, do you honestly think Iceland are better than Argentina because they are playing better as a “team”? Yea, no.
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Well yeah as football is a teams game, names mean feck all. I mean wtf ? Isn't the principle of football being better your opponent as a team and not just as individuals ?
 
JPRouve said:
Exactly, today Ronaldo is better, he is in form while Messi isn't. But acting as if Argentina are a good team, is something else.
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Yup. If we even forget the names and as I said bar attack it's average they dont function as a team. They're a shambles of a team.
 
What I’ve also noticed:

Argentina/Barca fans: “Messi can’t do everything by himself”


...well, while Cristiano literally DOES everything by himself.
 
kouroux said:
Well yeah as football is a teams game, names mean feck all. I mean wtf ? Isn't the principle of football being better your opponent as a team and not just as individuals ?
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So Iceland are better than Argentina.

Gotcha.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Uhhh, you know what I’m saying and are taking it out of context. Messi has handful of quality players to work with and is failing. Ronaldo doesn’t have that same privilege and is making it work.
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Did I miss something, is Messi suddenly Argentina's manager as well?

And yes, I actually think Iceland is a better team than Argentina at the moment. Who the feck cares about names? It seems as if Argentina can play like Accrington Stanley and people will still argue they're better "cos Dybala Higuain Di Maria Messi Aguero". Fecking hell, use your eyes.
 
RobinLFC said:
Did I miss something, is Messi suddenly Argentina's manager as well?

And yes, I actually think Iceland is a better team than Argentina at the moment. Who the feck cares about names? It seems as if Argentina can play like Accrington Stanley and people will still argue they're better "cos Dybala Higuain Di Maria Messi Aguero". Fecking hell, use your eyes.
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Going by what is rumoured all the time he might as well be.
 
abdo99 said:
This is the same conclusion I've arrived to and something which is more apparent in this world cup than ever before. This world cup has sealed the debate in Ronaldo's favour. Messi is supposed to be the better all round player and teammate but the coach is struggling to fit world class players around him. Give those same players to Ronaldo and I guarantee Argentina wouldn't be in this predicament.
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It isn't that simple as give it to Ronaldo. Portugal has a same system and a same coach from 2016. Certainly Santos is asked something in the whole matter?
Maybe with Santos in charge of Argentina things would be different. Or any other coach. Their problems are deep and many it seems.
 
Apart from being a passenger, Messi's worst influence concerns team selection. Why is Dybala on the bench? Not having Icardi and not playing Dybala is on Messi.
 
kouroux said:
Man, I don't care about Ronaldo :lol: The problem again, is that any criticism on Messi is seen as given by a Ronaldo fan. That's a terrible and childish way of looking at things.
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Still, a lot of renowned coaches have come in defense of Messi and "how little" he runs on the pitch. It also reminds me of Xavi 2012/2015 and triggers my PTSD, "look, he's the one with the most km covered", "shame on his team", "Messi is younger and covers 4km less, what a fraud".

Then you actually watched Xavi play in that era and he ran the most intranscentental 11km ever, always late to defend, late to pressure, never an off the ball run taking the defense by surprise, 11km jogging around the midfield coin, and just to appear in the photo when we scored a goal, or we conceded defending 3 vs 4, tons of distance, absolute lack of pace.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
So Iceland are better than Argentina.

Gotcha.
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If they perform better than them despite the relatively unknown players in their team, if they go further than them in the World Cup which is a possibly, then yes they'd be better than them. What's this obsession with big names ? They didn't do too badly in their direct confrontation anyway. A score doesn't tell the full story but to whoever watched the game, it was easy to see that Argentina weren't better than Iceland
 
Treble said:
Apart from being a passenger, Messi's worst influence concerns team selection. Why is Dybala on the bench? Not having Icardi and not playing Dybala is on Messi.
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I dont think not playing Dybala is on him but Icardi not being there is and it's madness.
 
IndyDC said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ronaldo-leaked-whatsapp-message-a8411266.html

Not sure if this has been posted already, but just going to leave this here...
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Well yea, that’s been rather obvious looking at how the 2 have done internationally besides their club success. At least obvious for football fans who aren’t the Messi homers who can’t see it.


Ronaldo can play with a bunch of aliens and he’d manage to keep producing. Messi in the same predicament wouldn’t and the aliens would get the blame all at the same time.
 
kouroux said:
The worst part isn't not starting Dybala, it's introducing him so late to the game which was criminal. Just like taking off Aguero for Higuain.
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Absolute madness. I dont think Sampaoli will go back to Argentina any time soon. :D
 
RobinLFC said:
Did I miss something, is Messi suddenly Argentina's manager as well?

And yes, I actually think Iceland is a better team than Argentina at the moment. Who the feck cares about names? It seems as if Argentina can play like Accrington Stanley and people will still argue they're better "cos Dybala Higuain Di Maria Messi Aguero". Fecking hell, use your eyes.
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But you're judging it on the result.
Argentina are the result of either Messi not being capable /unwilling to carry Argentina and all their flaws v an Iceland side who has everybody working incredibly hard to raise the unit.
I say Messi since he's an all time great, others can share the burden.
Its like when posters say they prefer Portugal's eleven .
Portugal's eleven are only in the conversation because of Ronaldo. This is the result of Ronaldo strapping 10 players on his back and doing work. Looking at this Portugal / Iceland / Argentina side and judging them on what they are doing against what they should be doing are two different things.
Give the Iceland manager the option to choose Argentinian players in their side and what do we think he does? It would be dominated by Argentinian players IMO.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Well yea, that’s been rather obvious looking at how the 2 have done internationally besides their club success. At least obvious for football fans who aren’t the Messi homers who can’t see it.


Ronaldo can play with a bunch of aliens and he’d manage to keep producing. Messi in the same predicament wouldn’t and the aliens would get the blame all at the same time.
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Why are your posts so childish?
 
Are Messi and Dybala so similar that they can't play together? I'm not convinced at all. Think both Messi and Dybala should start vs Nigeria.
 
Ban said:
I dont think not playing Dybala is on him but Icardi not being there is and it's madness.
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Not sure it is. Apart from the fact whether it's Messi's decision or not, what good would he have been yesterday? Four strikers is just too much - if he needs to be there, it should've been instead of Higuain because he's not better than Aguero or Dybala.

Sampaoli's squad and team selections have been strange, but the ones before him also made strange decisions so you'd have to think Messi is involved in the decision-making on some kind of level.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Well yea, that’s been rather obvious looking at how the 2 have done internationally besides their club success. At least obvious for football fans who aren’t the Messi homers who can’t see it.


Ronaldo can play with a bunch of aliens and he’d manage to keep producing. Messi in the same predicament wouldn’t and the aliens would get the blame all at the same time.
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Agree, it's quite clear.

Ronaldo's biggest crimes have been: a) playing for United b) being perceived as the more arrogant of the two (he's good looking and he knows it etc etc.) c) knocking out England / the Rooney incident

These factors have often kept him from getting the credit he deserves relative to Messi - especially from an English media perspective, but his performances have been such that even those pissed about any of the above 3 factors still have to concede he's the greatest of all time (well, apart from those who are lost causes).
 
Fanboys are the worse...Ronaldo fanboys act like children while Messi fanboys act like a cult.
 
IndyDC said:
Agree, it's quite clear.

Ronaldo's biggest crimes have been: a) playing for United b) being perceived as the more arrogant of the two (he's good looking and he knows it etc etc.) c) knocking out England / the Rooney incident

These factors have often kept him from getting the credit he deserves relative to Messi - especially from an English media perspective, but his performances have been such that even those pissed about any of the above 3 factors still have to concede he's the greatest of all time (well, apart from those who are lost causes).
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Are you sure Ronaldo wasn't getting the praise from english press up until now?
Who even remembers 2004 incident?
 
cyberman said:
But you're judging it on the result.
Argentina are the result of either Messi not being capable /unwilling to carry Argentina and all their flaws v an Iceland side who has everybody working incredibly hard to raise the unit.
I say Messi since he's an all time great, others can share the burden.
Its like when posters say they prefer Portugal's eleven .
Portugal's eleven are only in the conversation because of Ronaldo. This is the result of Ronaldo strapping 10 players on his back and doing work. Looking at this Portugal / Iceland / Argentina side and judging them on what they are doing against what they should be doing are two different things.
Give the Iceland manager the option to choose Argentinian players in their side and what do we think he does? It would be dominated by Argentinian players IMO.
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Why should Argentina be doing much better though ? I mean they barely qualified for the WC and have been consistently playing terrible football since they lost their last Copa America finals. You make an interesting point because it's basically a debate between "actual performances and potential performances" and as far I'm concerned potential means everything and nothing at the same time. What truly matters (for me again) is what is being done in reality
 
Ban said:
Are you sure Ronaldo wasn't getting the praise from english press up until now?
Who even remembers 2004 incident?
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That's why I put relative to Messi. Of course he has received credit, but it has been typically followed by something like "but Messi is still better" 90% of the time, as if speaking for all football purists who truly understand the game. At least that's the tone I've felt up until maybe the last couple of years.

And trust me, the English press still remember. Both BBC and ITV showed the incident again just recently in the video packages, Lineker even called Ronaldo a 'winker' lol
 
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