Wait a min.. I don't want that. I'm seriously questioning every single decision I've made which have led me to the point where I'm discussing these mindless topics here with what I presume are two children, or two extremely childish adults at best. Can someone give me one single good reason for why I should keep doing this? Because I sure as shit can't..
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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You shouldn't. Vancouver fan is like ten years old or so.
No one’s requested you to speak, you’ve willingly done so yourself. It just so happens you’re uberly obsessed with Ronaldo and can’t get his name off your tongue and continue to play the victim card as if you’re being held against your will to be here. With all due respect take a hike if that’s what you seek - you’re not special and by all means can do so without needing the attention/consent of others.
^this thread lately (past few years tbf) in a nutshell. And like I’ve said: Winners focus on winning. Losers focus on winners. Been the theme for some time here.
I'll try. Someone has to do it and occasionally, efforts like yours lead to reactions like "Ronaldo made that Marcelo goal happen through his feint. He caught the whole Bayern defense of guard when he pretended to try an overhead kick!" I mean, if that's not worth it, what is?
Middle school drama aside, I'd say most of my posts in here have been about either Messi or how I judge the quality of a player. It's so obvious how you're trying to create this angle that everyone who favors Messi in this thread is obsessed with Ronaldo so you can repeat that "Winners focus on winning. Losers focus on winners." bullshit over and over and project your own insecurities about how strangers talked bad about your hero so now you have to "get back at them".
Btw, aren't you the one who's focused on Ronaldo, who I assume is the "winner" in your quote? Are you and all the other Ronaldo fans in here the losers you refer to?.. But then again Messi has won more trophies than Ronaldo so that should make him the winner, and maybe the people who focus on him are the losers? Difficult one to unravel that..
If you haven't realised yet that the reason people talk about Ronaldo here is because this thread is actually about him. If you take that as people being obsessed with him then perhaps you should learn how a discussion forum works.
Thanks for the laughs though.
Lampard scored 20+ goals in 5 different seasons including goals in champions league semis and a final.
Gerrard scored 20+ goals in 3 seasons also including champions league semis and a final
Xavi never even scored 15 goals in a season and also never scored in a semi/final goal.
If scoring goals is *literally* the only thing that matters in football then are Gerrard and Lampard clearly a level above Xavi? Or are we willing to admit football is a much more complex game than best goalscorer= best player
Gerrard scored 20+ goals in 3 seasons also including champions league semis and a final
Xavi never even scored 15 goals in a season and also never scored in a semi/final goal.
If scoring goals is *literally* the only thing that matters in football then are Gerrard and Lampard clearly a level above Xavi? Or are we willing to admit football is a much more complex game than best goalscorer= best player
Midfielders are not only there to score goals. You’re just deliberately clouding the issue with this kind of comparison.
You’d end up with Ceni being the best keeper ever.
Comparing midfielders to forwards 
Eric Cantona was regularly outscored by Teddy Sheringham, Les Ferdinand, Andy Cole, Ian Wright, Chris Sutton, Matt le Tissier, Dean Holdsworth, Robbie Fowler, Alan Shearer, Stan Collymore, Chris Armstrong, Dwight Yorke.
Were they all better players than The King?
Were they all better players than The King?
If Ronaldo scores the winner vs Liverpool then I may change my mind, if not then Messi is still better.
Comparing midfielders to forwards
Then why you compare a striker with a total footballer than finishes like the best strikers, sprays passes like the best attacking midfielders and dribbles like the best wingers out there ?
Total footballer
Tbf I think what he means is that Ronaldo is and has been a striker for a good number of years now and plays as the closest player to goal.
Messi plays deeper and has never been the closest player to goal. Suarez and Villa played that role.
Messi plays deeper and has never been the closest player to goal. Suarez and Villa played that role.
Messi played more central than Villa, in fact Villa was playing as right forward with Messi as No.9
Messi has been the focal point of Barca's attach from the second half of 2009-2010 until summer 2014 when Barca signed Suarez. His heatmap shows him playing in a more attacking position than any Barca player, and he runs less than any Barca player than their keeper.
He is fantastic, we all know that, but let's not make legends that he is some type of advanced midfielder like Di Stefano or Maradona. He is and has always been a striker.
That's quite a thing to say when Messi indeed played the role of a false 9 which was more or less created for him in order to be able to drop between the lines - which is the typical AM position. Heatmaps only say so much, you have to take a look where he gets on the ball and how many players he has in front of him. Villa, Pedro, Henry, Sanchez etc. all made runs behind the lines in order to occupy the CBs so that they couldn't track back and interfere when Messi dropped between the lines and could turn himself to goal in this position. Of course he had no real defensive duties apart from counter pressing which is also responsible for his high positioning.
It is basically the same thing today, only that Messi nowadays drops even deeper since the team isn't really profound in the build up..
He’s not clouding the issue though. You acknowledge that midfielders perform different roles and that measuring their output solely on goals would be arbitrary. However you seem to be blind to this when comparing forwards. If goals are all that mattered for forward players then why are guys like Bergkamp and Cantona held in higher esteem than Defoe for example? By your measure of a forwards contribution, Defoe is as good as Bergkamp and Cantona but to any sane person looking from the outside in they would know that that isn’t true.
Similarly, Xavi is unanimously considered to better than Gerrard and Lampard despite scoring far fewer, now imagine how big that gap would be if he started matching their numbers in the final third. That’s the argument people in the Messi camp have been making. Messi shouldn’t be matching Ronaldo’s numbers, it should not be possible. The fact that he is whilst still being the best playmaker in the world is ridiculous and why he is better.
We are back to the myth that Messi scores as many whilst creating more?
Now this is good example. But what matter most is winning. Cantona impact on winning games >>>>>> any of the players you've mentioned.
One could argue Ronaldo impact on winning games >= Messi too.
Yep. It goes both ways.
Funny how that works, winning curing a lot of things. Specifically if you have that game breaking ability to perform in the clutch.
So according to this, Real would improve if they swapped BBC for Salah, Mane and Firmino?
What sort of giant leap in logic is this?
...no secret message lol. All it means is Pool have more secondary scoring support than Ronaldo.
We are back to the myth that Messi scores as many whilst creating more?
It isn’t a Myth though. Look at their all time stats.
Messi has 41 less goals and 42 more assists in 150 less games. So yeah it is not a myth.
Ronaldo is the all time CL assists leader.
Using your logic, that mean he’s the best at picking out teammates and thus the better playmaker?
They’d score more goals then Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema and wouldnt have to do it in front of a shite Liverpool team. I know it wasnt your point, just think it shows pool have a really strong front 3.What sort of giant leap in logic is this?
...no secret message lol. All it means is Pool have more secondary scoring support than Ronaldo.
If they had a fight, who would win?
Ronaldo is bigger but he's also in tears every other week and I doubt his willingness to take a punch on the nose and not run off to find a mirror.
Messi has the power of the drugs they pumped him full of as a kid but he seems the type to shy away from any confrontation.
I'd give the win to Ronaldo in what would undoubtedly be a scrap like the two guys in Bridget Jones's diary.
Ronaldo is bigger but he's also in tears every other week and I doubt his willingness to take a punch on the nose and not run off to find a mirror.
Messi has the power of the drugs they pumped him full of as a kid but he seems the type to shy away from any confrontation.
I'd give the win to Ronaldo in what would undoubtedly be a scrap like the two guys in Bridget Jones's diary.
Ronaldo is the all time CL assists leader.
Using your logic, that mean he’s the best at picking out teammates and thus the better playmaker?
Ronaldo has 13 more assists in European competitions in 33 more appearances. If they had the same appearances then Messi would dwarf Ronaldo’s assists.
Also I was only telling Cal that Messi having a similar number of goals and more assists is not a myth.
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Oh ok, sorry about that.
Yea, I’d take that attack too. Much more balanced and lethal as a group.
I bet Messi would have more wins if he had more appearances. Too bad it’s not how things work.
You are putting up a poor argument because you have nothing to say about Messi being involved in 1 more goal than Ronaldo in 150 games less. There is no argument for it really.
That might be the most hideously North American sentence I have ever read on here - please be considerate of others, too early in the morning to stomach that.
Only if you consider goals scored = impact. We saw Ronaldo have no impact against Bayern but still his team went through. Barcelona don't beat Bayern over two legs if Messi doesn't play well. Anyway that's all conjecture - here's a nice video to enjoy;
@MalcolmTucker
Woah! Dare I say “clutch”? I’ll make sure to say “impact” in the future to fulfil your lingo hahah
Woah! Dare I say “clutch”? I’ll make sure to say “impact” in the future to fulfil your lingo hahah
@MalcolmTucker
Woah! Dare I say “clutch”? I’ll make sure to say “impact” in the future to fulfil your lingo hahah
Think he is also referring to game breaking ability. That sounds like something out of NFL or Rugby or a Footballer who's job is to break up play in the middle of the park. Kante like.
Just to save Peyroteo the bother;
What the feck! I can't believe I have to explain it to you AGAIN!? It's stupid to look at their whole career stats, because it makes Messi look better on paper and I don't like that, now here are a bunch of excuses I've constructed in my head to convince myself that we should disregard these sets of stats and only focus on the ones I like! And I'm also going to get indignant and incredulous about it, to make my tenuous reasoning more convincing and definitely not because I'm defensive about it!
Excuses like;
Messi was injured a lot when he was younger so his goal to game ratio is better over their careers as he played fewer games;
Messi being injured a lot when he was younger has been warped into a positive thing for Messi in the mind of those whom favour Ronaldo. How many young players have had their promising careers halted by injuries as they were developing? Bet you can name a lot. Now can you name any that benefited from being injured a lot in their youth? No, of course you can't because it's stupid. Messi did, however, according to Peyroteo and Cal. Messi being stuck on the treatment table, not being able to practice his finishing or with his team mates had no effect on his development, apparently. Getting less game time and having to get back to match fitness helped too. They speculate that Messi would have continued developing and scoring at the same rate he did when he was consistently injured, if he wasn't, whereas I think it is far more likely that he would have developed into a better player quicker, had a longer prime and therefore his goal per game ratio would be better than it is now. Either way it's all speculation and the truth is Messi has the better overall career stats so far.
Ronaldo played as a conventional winger and Messi as a wide forward;
Ronaldo played as a winger, but he played as a winger because that's what he was suited to. He had the best manager of all time (Cal's words), one of the best at developing young talents, mentoring him and he decided Ronaldo in his early years wasn't productive enough to have that attacking freedom. Once he developed into that player, SAF gave him complete freedom to attack. Also, he played as a winger but he wasn't a disciplined one, I remember Neville saying that playing behind Ronaldo was frustrating as he seldom tracked back, although it was actually Ronaldo who changed Neville's views on football and that special talents should only concentrate on attacking. Messi played as a wide forward but was always pressing and happy to track back when he was younger, he's lazy as feck now but that wasn't the case when he was younger.
In the end, Messi was better when he was younger and it's ridiculous to disregard that part of their careers because it favours Messi.
Also, for the record, I think assists are a pretty useless stat.
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Ronaldo is a total average footballer when he's not receiving service in the box, how anyone who watches both of them play can say it's even a competition is a total joke
Messi is levels above Ronaldo as a player, it shouldn't even be up for debate
The one thing i'll credit Ronaldo for is his work ethic and determination to win, not many players have his hunger and desire to keep performing at the highest level like has done for the last 10+ years
He's a great goalscorer but as a player for me he can't even touch Zidane or Messi
Messi is levels above Ronaldo as a player, it shouldn't even be up for debate
The one thing i'll credit Ronaldo for is his work ethic and determination to win, not many players have his hunger and desire to keep performing at the highest level like has done for the last 10+ years
He's a great goalscorer but as a player for me he can't even touch Zidane or Messi
It is not a completely useless stat at all. Assists create goals, and most of Messi’s assists required him to be very creative, especially as a lot of Ronaldo’s are passes across the box whereas Messi’s were not
And yeah disregarded his younger years is ridiculous. It is like saying Pele won the WC at the age of 17 but we can’t take that into account because he was so young.
And that's my point, assists are just the second to last person to touch the ball before a goal and that often isn't the main creative force in the making of it. Take Iniesta for example, he had a very low assist record but he is one of the best creators to play the game. I don't think there is a metric to truly express creativity and you're best to just use the eye test. Messi has a lot of assists but if his teammates only scored half of those chances it wouldn't make him half as creative.
I don't think this is analogous to what I was saying tbh
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I always marvel watching these two compete against one another.
Two footballing Goliaths going toe to toe. The most historic of players. Can’t wait to see them once again!
I always marvel watching these two compete against one another.
Two footballing Goliaths going toe to toe. The most historic of players. Can’t wait to see them once again!
B/R always has the best graphics for sports
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