Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Zehner said:
There were 21 players on the pitch who had more influence in Real going through than Cristiano in the last two games. Messi's performance against Roma was bad, especially for his standards, but still much better than Ronaldo's.
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Hit the nail on the head, Ronaldo can play bad for 3 games straight and still advance to the next stage. Messi has 1 game where he can't assist or score and his team is out

There is no comparison who the better player is and now they are clutching at straws saying Ronaldo is through to the final that's why he is a better player yet his team has carried him there in the last 3 games with him offering very little for the team

Football is a team game and if Ronaldo's team is able to get away with him playing badly for consecutive games and still make it to the final then maybe he's not as important to the team as they make you believe

Great box player and goalscorer but his overall game is severely lacking compared to Messi
 
Vialli_92 said:
Hit the nail on the head, Ronaldo can play bad for 3 games straight and still advance to the next stage. Messi has 1 game where he can't assist or score and his team is out

There is no comparison who the better player is and now they are clutching at straws saying Ronaldo is through to the final that's why he is a better player yet his team has carried him there in the last 3 games with him offering very little for the team

Football is a team game and if Ronaldo's team is able to get away with him playing badly for consecutive games and still make it to the final then maybe he's not as important to the team as they make you believe

Great box player and goalscorer but his overall game is severely lacking compared to Messi
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Messi used to have better team mates than Ronaldo does now. Yet never ever made 3 CL finals in a row. :smirk:
 
Zehner said:
There were 21 players on the pitch who had more influence in Real going through than Cristiano in the last two games. Messi's performance against Roma was bad, especially for his standards, but still much better than Ronaldo's.
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:drool:

What about the substitutes?

Messi was much worse in Rome and if Barcelona went through noone would even criticize him as that's how it always goes. You people really are unbelievable, never stop though. It's much better this way.
 
Cal? said:
Messi used to have better team mates than Ronaldo does now. Yet never ever made 3 CL finals in a row. :smirk:
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League you need consistency to win, cup competitions you need to be in the right form at the right time and have the luck of the refs on your side

It's a great achievement to get to 3 finals in a row but Real have not been the best team at least this season and have rode their luck so far in my opinion

Against the same opposition over a 38 game season Ronaldo has come out on top twice against Messi in their careers, Messi has also kept up with Ronaldo despite playing 20-30 yards deeper
 
This discussion has turned into who’s team has been better this CL campaign. Put Ronaldo in Barca’s team and they go out against Roma. Put Messi is Real’s team and they still get to the final.

It is their teams that are the reason they are where they are. Vs Juventus over 2 legs and Bayern over 2 legs Marcelo has been Real’s best player. Ronaldo hasn’t done much since the first leg vs Juve. Messi was poor second leg vs Roma.

This campaign they haven’t been that much different to be honest, but Ronaldo’s team has been better. That is the difference.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
This discussion has turned into who’s team has been better this CL campaign. Put Ronaldo in Barca’s team and they go out against Roma. Put Messi is Real’s team and they still get to the final.
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Madrid go out to Juve and Barcelona would have gone through against Roma... then Barcelona would have had a chance to get lucky in the semis. Always nice to see the hypothetical world building make an appearance, means things are going the right way in reality.

Marcelo has been Madrid's best player? Take a good look at all the goals they've conceded. Next week it will be Ramos, the week after it will be Modric... same as last season. Hopefully it's the same next year too. Lots of criticism for Ronaldo's poor start of the season but when it comes to those guys you don't really seem to care.
 
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Cal? said:
You guys seems to think that "more involved = better", which I simply cannot agree with.

Not involved >>>> Messing up
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Most of the time Ronaldo was involved he messed up; missing his chance, giving the ball away without any pressure on him and taking a shot so poor it went out for a throw-in. He got one shot on target last night but beyond that he was shit for both legs.

Messi was crap in the away leg but he still created two chances and the chance he missed he created for himself. Neither played well.

Peyroteo said:
Messi was much worse in Rome
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No. You're a Portuguese Sporting CP fan and it's making you want to believe things that aren't true. Much worse? lol
 
B20 said:
please do.
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Just lose the final, whichever way you do it.

MalcolmTucker said:
Most of the time Ronaldo was involved he messed up; missing his chance, giving the ball away without any pressure on him and taking a shot so poor it went out for a throw-in. He got one shot on target last night but beyond that he was shit for both legs.

Messi was crap in the away leg but he still created two chances and the chance he missed he created for himself. Neither played well.
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:lol: You want to criticize Ronaldo for missing his chance and credit Messi for missing an easier chance in the same post? :lol:
 
Best analyst i have heard of the 2 is, if an Artist was to create a perfect footballer he would pick Messi and if a Engineer was to make a perfect football he would pick Ronaldo which i think some's them up perfect.

i think as a footballer i would take Messi every day of the week, dont mean i dont think Ronaldo is superb as well. Messi seems to be able to produce more moments of magic himself then a Ronaldo for me, Ronaldo now seems only interested in scoring for me and has lost his dribbling abilty, Ronaldo i feel at United was a much more exciting player. one thing for sure is we will miss both them when they are retired and should make the most of watching these 2.
 
Should maybe go in the ronaldo performance thread, but what do we make of the diminishment in his dribbling abilities?

To my eye, he seems to still be pretty quick, definitely faster than most defenders he comes up against. When he gets up to top speed with the ball at his feet now, there’s a high probability that he’ll end up in the ground as soon as a defender puts a challenge in, and since the turn of the year he could be accused of going to ground way too easy on multiple occasions.

I very much doubt that he’s lost the ability to know how to dribble past people, as evidence against chiellini when he knocked it past one side and ran round the other to collect it. But he just doesn’t do it anywhere near often enough, and it can’t always be because it’s more effective to release the ball because a lot of the time he’s only up against one defender and it’d be far more dangerous to just go by him and head for goal.

My own theory is that he’s lost a lot of his body strength. He’s noticeably bless bulked up than recent seasons, and because of that he just doesn’t feel like he can bulldoze his way through by dribbling anymore.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
You're a Portuguese Sporting CP fan and it's making you want to believe things that aren't true. Much worse? lol
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2-0 down, it was obvious the goal was coming and he's standing there waiting for it to happen. If things aren't going the right way at least show some fight and push the team forward.

Ronaldo made the right runs, the ball just didn't get there and when it did he ended up missing. Poor game, should have scored the big chance he had but he still showed more fight yesterday than I've seen out of Messi in his whole career. His movement and defensive contribution was great.

If Ronaldo and Benzema switch places for the first goal, people would be talking about Benzema's movement to drag defenders away. If Ulreich makes the mistake with Ronaldo there instead of Benzema he'd have been the difference too, if Marcelo pulls it back in that first half chance Ronaldo has an open goal to tap in a goal... it's football, the ball won't always get there but he was doing the right things off the ball as he always does. It's just that players never get the credit for it.

If Barcelona win in Rome, Messi wouldn't have gotten one bit of criticism and that's the biggest difference between them
 
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Arbitrium said:
Should maybe go in the ronaldo performance thread, but what do we make of the diminishment in his dribbling abilities?

To my eye, he seems to still be pretty quick, definitely faster than most defenders he comes up against. When he gets up to top speed with the ball at his feet now, there’s a high probability that he’ll end up in the ground as soon as a defender puts a challenge in, and since the turn of the year he could be accused of going to ground way too easy on multiple occasions.

I very much doubt that he’s lost the ability to know how to dribble past people, as evidence against chiellini when he knocked it past one side and ran round the other to collect it. But he just doesn’t do it anywhere near often enough, and it can’t always be because it’s more effective to release the ball because a lot of the time he’s only up against one defender and it’d be far more dangerous to just go by him and head for goal.

My own theory is that he’s lost a lot of his body strength. He’s noticeably bless bulked up than recent seasons, and because of that he just doesn’t feel like he can bulldoze his way through by dribbling anymore.
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This is probably true, he's sacrificed some strength for pace.
 
Peyroteo said:
If Ronaldo and Benzema switch places for the first goal, people would be talking about Benzema's movement to drag defenders away. If Ulreich makes the mistake with Ronaldo there instead of Benzema he'd have been the difference too, if Marcelo pulls it back in that first half chance Ronaldo has an open goal to tap in a goal.
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Peyroteo said:
Always nice to see the hypothetical world building make an appearance, means things are going the right way in reality.
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Peyroteo said:
2-0 down, it was obvious the goal was coming and he's standing there waiting for it to happen. If things aren't going the right way at least show some fight and push the team forward.

Ronaldo made the right runs, the ball just didn't get there and when it did he ended up missing. Poor game, should have scored the big chance he had but he still showed more fight yesterday than I've seen out of Messi in his whole career. His movement and defensive contribution was great.

If Ronaldo and Benzema switch places for the first goal, people would be talking about Benzema's movement to drag defenders away. If Ulreich makes the mistake with Ronaldo there instead of Benzema he'd have been the difference too, if Marcelo pulls it back in that first half chance Ronaldo has an open goal to tap in a goal... it's football, the ball won't always get there but he was doing the right things off the ball as he always does. It's just that players never get the credit for it.

If Barcelona win in Rome, Messi wouldn't have gotten one bit of criticism and that's a big difference.
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Sorry Peyroteo but two of the comments In here are really, really poor that you’re in danger of just becoming a WUM to me, which would be a shame because I like most of your comments.

Firstly, you say ronaldo showed more fight and determination than Messi has in his entire career? All ronaldo did defensively last night was win the ball back in the centre circle twice, when the Bayern players took way too long on the ball. If you think his performance last night deserves ANY kind of credit for his determination then frankly, you don’t understand the sport. He was 2/10 at best. YouTube is down right now for some reason, so I can’t link any of the dozens of videos where messi demonstrates his determined side. I’ll be more than happy to link them though when YouTube is working for me again, so I’d much rather you just admit that that comment was immature, wrong and a wind up.

As for Marcelo cutting the ball back, why didn’t he? As one of the best full backs in the modern era, who is absolutely incredible at;

A) cutting the ball back
B) cutting the ball back to ronaldo

Then there must surely be a reason that he didn’t? Why don’t you watch the play again and see for yourself why it wasn’t his best option. And it was far from an open goal, there were a lot of bodies in Ronaldo’s way so even if the ball had ended up at his feet a goal wasn’t certain.
 
Peyroteo said:
2-0 down, it was obvious the goal was coming and he's standing there waiting for it to happen. If things aren't going the right way at least show some fight and push the team forward.

Ronaldo made the right runs, the ball just didn't get there and when it did he ended up missing. Poor game, should have scored the big chance he had but he still showed more fight yesterday than I've seen out of Messi in his whole career. His movement and defensive contribution was great.

If Ronaldo and Benzema switch places for the first goal, people would be talking about Benzema's movement to drag defenders away. If Ulreich makes the mistake with Ronaldo there instead of Benzema he'd have been the difference too, if Marcelo pulls it back in that first half chance Ronaldo has an open goal to tap in a goal... it's football, the ball won't always get there but he was doing the right things off the ball as he always does. It's just that players never get the credit for it.

If Barcelona win in Rome, Messi wouldn't have gotten one bit of criticism and that's the biggest difference between them
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This post is actually bizarre. You've created a parallel universe made out of off-the-ball movement where Ronaldo played better than Messi :lol:
 
Cal? said:
This is probably true, he's sacrificed some strength for pace.
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It's weird though, because his pace is part of what made him such a great dribbler. I wonder to what extent he is actually protecting his body. His game/career management is probably the greatest ever in terms of performing at the highest possible level for so long but the drop off in dribbling is remarkable given that earlier in his career, his ability to dribble so well came mainly from pace, quick feet and his skills, all 3 of which he still possesses at an elite level.
 
Arbitrium said:
Sorry Peyroteo but two of the comments In here are really, really poor that you’re in danger of just becoming a WUM to me, which would be a shame because I like most of your comments.

Firstly, you say ronaldo showed more fight and determination than Messi has in his entire career? All ronaldo did defensively last night was win the ball back in the centre circle twice, when the Bayern players took way too long on the ball. If you think his performance last night deserves ANY kind of credit for his determination then frankly, you don’t understand the sport. He was 2/10 at best. YouTube is down right now for some reason, so I can’t link any of the dozens of videos where messi demonstrates his determined side. I’ll be more than happy to link them though when YouTube is working for me again, so I’d much rather you just admit that that comment was immature, wrong and a wind up.

As for Marcelo cutting the ball back, why didn’t he? As one of the best full backs in the modern era, who is absolutely incredible at;

A) cutting the ball back
B) cutting the ball back to ronaldo

Then there must surely be a reason that he didn’t? Why don’t you watch the play again and see for yourself why it wasn’t his best option. And it was far from an open goal, there were a lot of bodies in Ronaldo’s way so even if the ball had ended up at his feet a goal wasn’t certain.
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There was literally noone between them, he didn't because he just didn't see him. It was the easiest ball to play and a very easy decision to make. There was noone between them.



03:45

Ronaldo won more than 2 balls in midfield and he actually pressed and forced Bayern into doing mistakes and losing possession a few more times. He was also very important in defensive set pieces. If there's one thing where he's massively improved from his prime years it's his defensive contribution. Not saying it's very important but it matters too.

Fair enough on the wind up part, it is pretty irresistable to try to wind up some people here who really deserve it after spending the whole year dreading this would happen. Sorry about that.
 
Arbitrium said:
It's weird though, because his pace is part of what made him such a great dribbler. I wonder to what extent he is actually protecting his body. His game/career management is probably the greatest ever in terms of performing at the highest possible level for so long but the drop off in dribbling is remarkable given that earlier in his career, his ability to dribble so well came mainly from pace, quick feet and his skills, all 3 of which he still possesses at an elite level.
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Maybe his managers agree with my view of football, that dribbling really isn't that efficient in terms of achieving a result. ;)
 
MalcolmTucker said:
This post is actually bizarre. You've created a parallel universe made out of off-the-ball movement where Ronaldo played better than Messi :lol:
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It's this universe and this sport where moving off the ball matters a lot without players ever getting the credit for it. Check the highlights of the video above, from 03:45, a few are cut short but it's 4 plays in a row where he's lost his marker and he's all alone if the ball gets through. If the ball gets there and he scores he gets the credit for it, if it doesn't then he's invisible.

I'm not saying this makes his performance better than Messi's, only that it does matter.
 
Peyroteo said:
There was literally noone between them, he didn't because he just didn't see him. It was the easiest ball to play and a very easy decision to make. There was noone between them.



03:45

Ronaldo won more than 2 balls in midfield and he actually pressed and forced Bayern into doing mistakes and losing possession a few more times. He was also very important in defensive set pieces. If there's one thing where he's massively improved from his prime years it's his defensive contribution. Not saying it's very important but it matters too.

Fair enough on the wind up part, it is pretty irresistable to try to wind up some people here who really deserve it after spending the whole year dreading this would happen. Sorry about that.
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What you have to understand about the situation is that marcelo's first touch wasn't the best. In order to make the best pass to ronaldo in that situation he would probably have had to use his heel. What marcelo saw was Lucas Vasquez completely unmarked at the back post. It is extremely rare that marcelo doesn't make the right decision, so he tries to get the ball to vasquez because he thinks its the easier chance. From the angle marcelo is at, he also sees Kimmich left leg is between him and ronaldo, so it's definitely not as an easy a pass as you make out. If it was, Marcelo would have made it, he was explaining that afterwards when ronaldo was whining at him.

You don't need to resort to winding people up. when you say something like ronaldo last night showing more determination last night than messi has in his entire career its just immature and lacks class and you're better than that. Ronaldo has put a little more effort into his defensive side, definitely in the QF and SF and its nice to see but Messi has spent full seasons defending from the front, closing down defenders and goalkeepers and winning the ball back in his own half. This would just be one example, which far surpasses any type of determined defensive contribution of ronaldo.

 
Cal? said:
Maybe his managers agree with my view of football, that dribbling really isn't that efficient in terms of achieving a result. ;)
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When you have his skillset, it is though. There's an argument to be made he could have scored/assisted even more had he not jacked in the dribbling side of his game.
 
Peyroteo said:
It's this universe and this sport where moving off the ball matters a lot without players ever getting the credit for it. Check the highlights of the video above, from 03:45, a few are cut short but it's 4 plays in a row where he's lost his marker and he's all alone if the ball gets through. If the ball gets there and he scores he gets the credit for it, if it doesn't then he's invisible.

I'm not saying this makes his performance better than Messi's, only that it does matter.
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Mate, you've lost it. You're genuinely telling me to watch a video of Ronaldo standing alone in the box, in most instances in plays where he was never going to get the ball. SILENT DOMINATION.

Off the ball movement does matter, but I think you've elevated it to a point where it's made Cristiano Ronaldo the greatest thing ever, so even when he has a stinker you can tell yourself that his movement was outstanding but his team mates didn't do their job.
 
Arbitrium said:
You don't need to resort to winding people up. when you say something like ronaldo last night showing more determination last night than messi has in his entire career its just immature and lacks class and you're better than that. Ronaldo has put a little more effort into his defensive side, definitely in the QF and SF and its nice to see but Messi has spent full seasons defending from the front, closing down defenders and goalkeepers and winning the ball back in his own half. This would just be one example, which far surpasses any type of determined defensive contribution of ronaldo.

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I think just as people forget what an exciting player Ronaldo used to be, people forget that Messi was very dogged and all-action when he first broke through - I remember reading that he was advised to stop pressing so much to stop him getting the muscle injuries he incurred when he was younger. I do think both have changed in the last few years in other ways, Ronaldo has become less greedy and more of a team player and Messi has become a bit more greedy, especially with his shooting. He also goes down easier, but I think that's because he doesn't have the youthful exuberance/stamina he had when he was younger
 
MalcolmTucker said:
Mate, you've lost it. You're genuinely telling me to watch a video of Ronaldo standing alone in the box, in most instances in plays where he was never going to get the ball. SILENT DOMINATION.

Off the ball movement does matter, but I think you've elevated it to a point where it's made Cristiano Ronaldo the greatest thing ever, so even when he has a stinker you can tell yourself that his movement was outstanding but his team mates didn't do their job.
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He's standing alone because he lost his marker in all of those and in all of those the ball could have easily gone to him. It's not that his teammates didn't do their job or that they aren't good enough, sometimes the ball will get to him and sometimes it won't.
 
@Peyroteo

Come on man, I mean, I love Bas Dost, he's one of our only decent players in Europe, but just look at him...

bas-dost-300-300.jpeg


Ah feck me, I fell for it.

That's a bogus site :lol:
 
Peyroteo said:
He's standing alone because he lost his marker in all of those and in all of those the ball could have easily gone to him. It's not that his teammates didn't do their job, sometimes the ball will get to him and sometimes it won't.
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I think you are confusing losing your marker with poor defending for a lot of these. Sule and hummels is a horrible pairing, ronaldo should be dominating them for an entire game.
 
Peyroteo said:
Madrid go out to Juve and Barcelona would have gone through against Roma... then Barcelona would have had a chance to get lucky in the semis. Always nice to see the hypothetical world building make an appearance, means things are going the right way in reality.

Marcelo has been Madrid's best player? Take a good look at all the goals they've conceded. Next week it will be Ramos, the week after it will be Modric... same as last season. Hopefully it's the same next year too. Lots of criticism for Ronaldo's poor start of the season but when it comes to those guys you don't really seem to care.
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Marcelo scored a big goal in the first leg vs Juve and the first leg vs Bayern. He also provided an assist for Benzema in the second leg last night. Sounds to me like he has been their most important player in the latter rounds this season.
 
Arbitrium said:
I think you are confusing losing your marker with poor defending for a lot of these. Sule and hummels is a horrible pairing, ronaldo should be dominating them for an entire game.
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Sule and Hummels is a horrible pairing? :confused:
 
Peyroteo said:
There was literally noone between them, he didn't because he just didn't see him. It was the easiest ball to play and a very easy decision to make. There was noone between them.



03:45

Ronaldo won more than 2 balls in midfield and he actually pressed and forced Bayern into doing mistakes and losing possession a few more times. He was also very important in defensive set pieces. If there's one thing where he's massively improved from his prime years it's his defensive contribution. Not saying it's very important but it matters too.

Fair enough on the wind up part, it is pretty irresistable to try to wind up some people here who really deserve it after spending the whole year dreading this would happen. Sorry about that.
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So now we have two Ronaldo fans who have admitted that they are wumming.. :confused:
You say that people deserve it and Vancouver talked about hurt feelings... Why are you guys taking this thread so personal?

I also don't think anyone in here dreaded the fact that Ronaldo would go missing for 3 games while Real qualified for the final because this thread is about how good Ronaldo and Messi are, not their teams. FWIW, I don't dread anything in regards to Ronaldo. The only thing I dread is seeing Klopp raising that trophy, and if Ronaldo would score 9 goals in the final to prevent that from happening I would celebrate like there's no tomorrow.

Cal? said:
Maybe his managers agree with my view of football, that dribbling really isn't that efficient in terms of achieving a result. ;)
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Your view of how you like football to be played doesn't determine whether something like dribbling is efficient in terms of achieving a result or not. And your war on dribbling is one of the most bizarre things about this thread because Ronaldo benefitted massively from his dribbling skills for more than half his career.
 
Peyroteo said:
Are you being sarcastic?
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No, as far as going up against ronaldo in a champions league semi final, its not the best partnership. The amount of ball watching by both was incredible. just look at hummels and sule in this pic before ronaldos chance, it had absolutely NOTHING to do with ronaldo losing them.

6iz0j5.jpg
 
Zlaatan said:
Your view of how you like football to be played doesn't determine whether something like dribbling is efficient in terms of achieving a result or not. And your war on dribbling is one of the most bizarre things about this thread because Ronaldo benefitted massively from his dribbling skills for more than half his career.
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My war on dribbling?

How about you Messi fans' war on goals, that's just bizarre.
 
Has that vancouver bloke told us, via screenshot analysis, how Ronaldo played a pivotal role in the Bayern keeper's mistake?
 
Cal? said:
My war on dribbling?

How about you Messi fans' war on goals, that's just bizarre.
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You've argued forever about how dribbling is irrelevant as long as it doesn't lead to goals/winning and you've posted about 9000 laughing smilies in total for everyone who has used the word dribble and Messi in the same sentence. Did you ever watch Ronaldo play on the wing?
 
Zlaatan said:
So now we have two Ronaldo fans who have admitted that they are wumming.. :confused:
You say that people deserve it and Vancouver talked about hurt feelings... Why are you guys taking this thread so personal?

I also don't think anyone in here dreaded the fact that Ronaldo would go missing for 3 games while Real qualified for the final because this thread is about how good Ronaldo and Messi are, not their teams. FWIW, I don't dread anything in regards to Ronaldo. The only thing I dread is seeing Klopp raising that trophy, and if Ronaldo would score 9 goals in the final to prevent that from happening I would celebrate like there's no tomorrow.
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Oh you trust me, you have no idea how many people wanted to see him getting knocked out. I'm not wumming, just poking some fun at you guys.

You're right about that last part, best part about all of this is if Liverpool make the final I'll get to watch people like you actually rooting for Ronaldo to score. It's pretty hilarious. Wouldn't be surprised if some United fans who are regulars in this thread actually rooted for Liverpool.
 
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