Then why do neutral forums have a more balanced result than a Manchester United forum?
You've seen them play live though, so you'd know better than the rest anyway
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
Then why do neutral forums have a more balanced result than a Manchester United forum?
You've seen them play live though, so you'd know better than the rest anyway
Messi is the creator but I voted Cristiano.
For a "fanbase" so keen on the idea that we, the Messi "fanboys" only belittle Ronaldo as a player, you guys have no quarrels belittling other players when it's about puting Ronaldo miles ahead of them.
That's what I'm trying to convey here.
I read a lot of figurative talk, but not a single argument on why he was arguably better for Real than Klose for Germany, beyond what they added in their playing dimension.
Also, funny that you mention scoring in a WC final, because if we bring Ronaldo to the table, he did it better than anyone since Pelé at World Cup level, every KO stage and final vs Germany, with the train of thought WC>UCL>League, Ronaldo Nazario would be superior to both Cris and Leo in an overall level
Do you have any example? I already said Messi is better but I like more Cristiano.
Yeahh, it's Peyroteo
I read a lot of figurative talk, but not a single argument on why he was arguably better for Real than Klose for Germany, beyond what they added in their playing dimension.
Also, funny that you mention scoring in a WC final, because if we bring Ronaldo to the table, he did it better than anyone since Pelé at World Cup level, every KO stage and final vs Germany, with the train of thought WC>UCL>League, Ronaldo Nazario would be superior to both Cris and Leo in an overall level
Figurative talk. Well, what the hell do you want me to say? To prove it to you mathematically than one was better than the other? The question didn't even mke sense in the first place.
R9 didn't do it better than anyone since Pele, Maradona was better. It's true R9 performed better than Cristiano and Messi in World Cups but you have to take the quality of the team around him into account too. He's above both Messi and Cristiano in the WC, but imo what Ronaldo and Messi did in the CL and in the league surpasses that. I don't think it's a huge difference though
Its a rational argument imo.Yeahh, it's Peyroteo
It is more obvious watching them live (and against each other) who the better player is.
The Olympics?
seriously?If you need to resort to the Olympics in a football discussion to make your point, you’ve lost. Badly.
Somehow when Messi played with Xaviesta and led 4-1 in Ballon d’or, the ‘better team mates’ argument doesn’t hold any water.
Now Ronaldo has the better team mates, it’s the main reason he performs.
The Olympics?
If you need to resort to the Olympics in a football discussion to make your point, you’ve lost. Badly.
I agree, which kind of highlights the missed opportunity. They could have changed the rules decades ago and made the football at the olympics seriously competitive. It's the most historical sporting event in the world and football is probably last on the list in terms of importance to its participants.
Because he makes all the teams better, Argentina has pub players, Barcelona has pub players, we always learn with the Messi cult...
Actually if he combined all those goals with WINNING the WC more than once, he’d be rated much higher.
The problem is he scored and Germany lost. The time they won, he was a bit part player.
Dribbles and passes? Those mean sod all if they don’t result in goals, or are you a fan for LVG’s possession for possession’s sake style?
Care to share who Messi faced in the Copa knockout stage before losing to Chile every time?
Out of less than 300 votes, someone shared an online poll with almost 500,000 votes and it was 60-40
FIFA won’t sanction it being full international, they don’t want the World Cup to be over shadowed.
Yeah and to be fair 60/40 over that many votes is still a clear margin.
I’m not doubting that more people prefer Messi, but the 40% voting for Ronaldo makes it pretty clear that it IS very much debatable and nowhere near as clear cut as the Messi brigade seem to think.
The majority is not always right, otherwise Brexit is a good idea.
Please stop saying messi brigade!
I will always value the opinions of the players who played against both the most. Would love if they could have a poll of every player in La Liga and see who comes out on top. Probably as fair as it could ever get.
Come on surely no one can argue Klose did similar things as Cristiano.
Klose was a fantastic striker, but saying his world cup career and cristiano’s cl career is similar is just silly. Ronaldo has been an anomoly for the last 8 years. Consistently. He’s a freak. I prefer Messi, but there is no question whether Ronaldo is on a completey different level than Miroslav Klose.
Klose was a fantastic striker, but saying his world cup career and cristiano’s cl career is similar is just silly. Ronaldo has been an anomoly for the last 8 years. Consistently. He’s a freak. I prefer Messi, but there is no question whether Ronaldo is on a completey different level than Miroslav Klose.
Then why did you say - "Arguing Messi is better because he scores about the same but he creates more makes no sense at all."
Why doesn't it make sense to say that Messi is a better player because he scores as much but creates more if you also believe that there's more to performances than goals? I think we can all agree that creating chances is obviously an extremely important aspect when judging the ability of an attacking player.
When you said "all games and all goals are not all worth the same". Even so, I was trying to be facetious but I guess I failed.
Maradona isn't considered to be much better than Platini based on his WC performances alone, that's absurd on the face of it. The WC is what he is most known for, but that's not what we're talking about.
And Zidane and Nedved? ....I'm not even going to touch that one.
Examples that Messi fans get called on belittling Ronaldo in their comparisons? You just need to scroll through the last pages in this thread, and even the Ronaldo performances' one, it's one of the biggest qualms between both fanbases.
Well, I expected you to say something in the line of "Well, both might score at absurd rate at big tournaments, but on top of that Ronaldo opens the field a lot (which he doesn't lately, since his runs flood the area), or takes control of the game (which is Modric's job), or it's also Real Madrid biggest 1vs1 threat on the left wing (and that, would be Marcelo), or the way he threatens the whole pitch with his long-pass accuracy (oh, that's Kroos). Not trying to say that Ronaldo is the copycat of Klose, he's way better and has more to his game, just that his role for Real Madrid is as subordinated as Klose's was for Germany, and that's totally out of Ronaldo's control for the good and the bad, so I don't know why the need to elevate one to goat level and belittle the other to "German bullly". That's exactly the thing you criticize us for while talking about Ronaldo.
If you have into account the quality of the teams around them, then Ronaldo's Brazil in 2002 is still at a disadvantage against Barcelona and Real squads in the UCL, the problem is that you also have to add his 98' run where he was player of the tournament on a finalist team, and an extra "pity run" in 2006 where he added 3 more goals to his baggage, there's no chance in hell Maradona's overall WC career is better than Ronaldo's, at least it's equal.
The main argument here remains, titles and scoring measure as little when you talk about the level of players, otherwise someone like Kempes would be on par with Maradona in Argentina, he led them to a WC title, scored a bunch and did it even in the final vs Netherlands. But Maradona remains Maradona because he could do other things beyond what Kempes did, get what I'm hinting at?.
Barcelona 0-2 right now without Messi. Real won 3-0 without Ronaldo.
So Sevilla are not half bad eh! Still hurts that we lost to them because of our own stupid tactics.
Yes, I don't know how to say it any better, maybe my english is failing me
When he scores/assists/creates is more important than how often he does it. A player scoring 1 goal a game that has 90% of his goals not be that important isn't as good of a goalscorer as a player who scores 0.5 goals a game with most of his goals being big goals in big matches. Same goes for their creativity.
You judge individual perfrormances on all of that but then to judge their careers you have to put that performance into context.
Messi scores about the same and creates more overall but if you separate it by competition that's not the case. Ronaldo scores more in the Champions League, he assists more too, in the knockouts that difference increases even more and just by watching them play throughout the years I think Ronaldo's had the better performances of the 2 there. Not just because of his goals. Internationally I'd give an advantage to Ronaldo too and in the national competitions Messi's been better. That's how I see it and I think it's the only way it makes sense to look at it
The / any poll does not take into account the fact that people vote in 2 ways
One hand on heart who they feel is the best player
Two the player they like the most ( or in this case the one they dislike the most ). It goes without saying that many fans absolutely hate Ronaldo, he is high profile not known for his modesty !!, makes no bones about reminding people just how good he is and also played part of his career for the most loved but equally most hated team in the world.
While Messi on the other hand is more introverted not prone to self promotion and proclamation, he's the footballer that every mum wants her daughter to bring home and plays for that lovely Barcelona team.
In short Messi is the playing equivalent of lovely lovely non confrontational PeP
While Ronny is the playing equivalent of the devil incarnate super arrogant lord of darkness Mourinho.
Who is the better manager ? in my opinion it's Mourinho as he has achieved so much in so many different leagues, but I'm pretty sure the populist vote would go to squeaky clean PeP.
The best Player ? Ronny by a country mile for all he achieved in England , Spain and also for carrying his ( generally 2nd rate )national team to success on his shoulders
Please close this thread, you are embarrasing yourself
I didn't belittle Klose to 'German bully'. How did you get that how of my comment?
I merely said his goals should be put into context and that scoring against Saudi Arabia in the WC group stages isn't the same as scoring against Brazil in a final for example. He's scored some huge goals for Germany too, maybe I didn't make it clear.
When I say Ronaldo's the best CL player out of him and Messi I'm talking about their whole careers too, not just the past 2 years where Ronaldo's role has been getting more and more similar to a Klose type player. You said it yourself that he's way better and has more to his game so I don't thing I need to argue that.
Yes, Ronaldo and Messi have an advantage club wise while Ronaldo Fenomeno had the advantage of playing with a better team at international level.
I definitely think Maradona has had a better career in World Cups than R9. That's for another thread though
You just pretended I'm talking about scoring measures and titles and argued that instead. I am talking about the level of their performance You telling me their scoring numbers and titles is my argument does not make it my argument. And it isn't.
Messi is like a cheating tool at the moment. Having him on the pitch is fecking unfair for the opposition team.
172 pages and almost 7000 posts later, and not a single person has been swayed by the opposing side. Why continue flogging a dead horse? People aren't even open to having their views changed -- they're too deeply entrenched in their own presuppositions.
Does anyone really find this type of discourse enjoyable?
Messi will probably win just about every overall poll among football fans, journalists, players and so forth. Some people will disagree. Why not just leave it at that?
Does anyone really find this type of discourse enjoyable?
Messi will probably win just about every overall poll among football fans, journalists, players and so forth. Some people will disagree. Why not just leave it at that?
The GOAT saves our ass again
Congratulations for scoring a late goal, the world has never seen nothing like that
Congratulations for scoring a late goal, the world has never seen nothing like that
LOL dude you have to learn to live with it.
Nope I always win, already said Messi is better but I like more Cristiano, no problem at all.
And if the level of their performances was the thing that elevates them over each other, then Ronaldo at his peak would've won a lot more than what he's actually winning.
We're at the end of the same circle for the 100th time, if peak Ronaldo was the kind of player to be called "goat UCL ever", then he'd have some UCL titles to show between 2008 (where he faced Messi, as reigning champion) and 2013, the year Real hit the key building a great squad (Bale, Carva, Marcelo, Ramos, Pepe, Modric, Di Maria, and then Kroos, Isco, Casemiro and James).
It wasn't even related to how good that Barcelona squad was, Real were only shut down of the UCL just once in Ronaldo's first 4 seasons, never even made a final.
And while I agree that Leo's legacy in the UCL will and should be linked to Iniesta, Xavi, Neymar and Suarez for example, I think it's fair to assume that Ronaldo's legacy depends even more on his teammates, numbers can't cover that, based on the fact that Ronaldo at his peak failed to deliver Real Madrid to the heights they're consistently reaching now on his decline.
Nope I always win, already said Messi is better but I like more Cristiano, no problem at all.
Feels like Barca have Real Madrid's mojo from last season with all this late game stuff haha
Football is about emotions one can be better and you can like more another
I'm not sure how this is even a discussion. I have got 5 different United tops with Ronaldo's name on then; I, like most United fans during the late naughties, sang Viva Ronaldo every chance we got, and loved him while he was here, but he is not Messi.
There's a line between fanhood and delusion, and I genuinely can't imagine how anyone who understands football can possibly think that Cristiano is a better footballer than Leo Messi. Perhaps accomplishments might be another discussion, and it's yet to be seen who will retire as the more accomplished. But one is clearly a better footballer than the other.
Messi might be the greatest footballer ever. There's not shame in any of our favourites being behind him on an all-time list, and it's hard to do anything but cringe when I read some of the fan-boy myopic drivel in this thread. Although, a 71% vote on Manchester United forum pretty much settles is.
There's a line between fanhood and delusion, and I genuinely can't imagine how anyone who understands football can possibly think that Cristiano is a better footballer than Leo Messi. Perhaps accomplishments might be another discussion, and it's yet to be seen who will retire as the more accomplished. But one is clearly a better footballer than the other.
Messi might be the greatest footballer ever. There's not shame in any of our favourites being behind him on an all-time list, and it's hard to do anything but cringe when I read some of the fan-boy myopic drivel in this thread. Although, a 71% vote on Manchester United forum pretty much settles is.
Last edited:
So by that very same logic, Messi not having won as much as Iniesta... makes him the inferior player? Come on, now you're the one arguing what you were just arguing against in your last post.
No player wins it by himself... are you actually seriously using their team results to judge their performances? Isn't that what you were just arguing against?
This can't be serious. I'm sorry, you usually make great points and even though I disagree a lot with you, I think you're a great poster but come on... that's bad.
Thanks.
You too.
- Status