Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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  • Ronaldo

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PuyolC said:
During a season Messi dribbles more, gets more assists and creates more chances than Ronaldo, so it's not about Messi being the more aesthetically pleasing player.
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Firstly, dribbling more means absolutely nothing.

Secondly, getting more assists and scoring more goals would matter if they come in the key games. The point is that in recent seasons, Ronaldo has consistently performed in the biggest football games whilst Messi has bottled many CL games.
Tostao_80 said:
You’re comprehension of his post is totally off the mark, and I think you know that. Whilst Leo is more aesthetically pleasing, that’s not the argument he’s making (Ronaldo Lima example aside). Messis game Besides goals far supersedes C Ronaldos. His game iq and playmaking ability is simply on a different level, something all the top level greats had (see Cruyff, Diego, Di Stefano). Simply put, Messi is one of the greatest goal scorers of all time AND one of the greatest playmakers of all, at the same time as having extra terrestrial natural ability. Ronaldo only matches him in on of these three aspects. No player in history (arguably) has managed to combine all three.
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There we go with the Messi brigade again, where was his extraordinary superhuman ability when they were 4-0 down to PSG? or 3-0 down to Juve?
The holy trinity 68 said:
So Messi getting to the final and not winning and Ronaldo getting to the final and going off injured, with Portugal then winning, is what makes Ron better than Messi at internationals?

One getting to finals and not winning and the other not featuring in the final and his team winning is quite similar in the fact that none contributing to the final game.

Also Messi has scored more goals and assisted more goals in tournaments than Ronaldo. But yeah Ron has been better. No chance.
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Messi contributed significantly to Argentina LOSING 3 finals.

It's not similar, Ronaldo was denied the chance to contribute, Messi contributed to LOSING.

Wow!! Messi has scored 1 more than Ronaldo in major tournaments in his career. How amazing. Never mind the fact that the Copa is much much weaker than the Euro.
 
One thing I notice more and more from modern fans is the total disregard for the intelligence required for any player to consistently arrive into and finish off chances. If it was as easy to do as people claiming, goal scoring players would never be purchased at a premium. Hence I rarely understand this desire to transfer most of the credit from a serial world class goal scorer to his suppliers.
 
I also find statistics like assists a rather lousy way for anyone to claim one player is better than another. For that statistic entirely depends on your teammates. Namely their ability to consistently get you into positions to assist and their ability to finish off that which you supply. Chances created makes more sense because it sort of captures a glimpse of a player's vision.

But overall, IMO the worst statistics to use to claim player x is superior to player y is dribbling statistics. All it tells you is player X has superior dribbling talent/skill to player Y. It isnt evidence of any either of them being better or worse than each other overrall
 
RedRonaldo said:
I think most people forgot apart from the 3 goals scored in Euro 16, Ronaldo also provide 3 assists too.

I understand he is not one of the greatest playmaker around like Messi, but people just tend to forget/ignore all the assists he provided.
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Its wilful avoidance. They ignore his assist statistics on purpose.
 
Rajma said:
So?
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Chat'
Zehner said:
I think many people tend to reduce this discussion to goals although that's the wrong approach in my eyes. Yes, in the end the game is all about goals but in many occasions it is not the player that scored it/had the last contact before the ball passes the line who contributed the most to it. We all know the phrase "XYZ scored it but this goal clearly belongs to ZYX!" And the same goes for assists. A player that dribbles three opponent to create himself the space needed to pass through another two defenders in order to set up a goal contributed much more than someone who played a simple pass or flank. The game is just too complicated to capture a players performance in these two simple but most popular statistics. Messi himself recently said in an interview that he evaluates his games differently and occasionally he had bad games although he scored one or even multiple goals while others were good albeit he did not score at all.

In my opinion Cristiano can compete with Messi in pure goalscoring ability and maybe even edges it. They have similar statistics with Messi having the greater peak and Ronaldo having a better record in big games. His off the ball movement is simply unreal, his finishing in the box is superb and he really shines on the big stage. I can understand both sides in this regard since it is really close and whoever wins it does so by a very small margin.

However, in the GOAT discussion it is quite different for me. If you see those lists with the greatest players of their respective eras - Pele, Eusebio, Puskas, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Zico, Platini, Maradona, Laudrup, Zidane, Ronaldo Lima, Ronaldinho, Messi, Cristiano - it is clear that CR7 stands out because he is a different type of player than all the others.
In the past, the best player was almost never the one that scored the greatest amount of goals. In Germany, nobody regards Gerd Müller being better than Franz Beckenbauer. Eto'o or van Nistelroy were never held as high as Ronaldinho, Zidane or Ronaldo Lima. Historically, attributes like dribbling ability, passing, link up player and so on were much more important than goalscoring. And this is due to the dynamics I described initially: Yes, after all the team which scored more goals wins the match. But many times, it is not the scorer who contributed the most to a goal.

And for this reason, it has to be Messi. He is just so much more influential on the pitch. I think that the Manchester United Ronaldo was actually the best version of him and the one closest to Messi performance-wise. He may have scored slightly less but he was just so dangerous and completely able to create goals solely on his own. This style faded more and more during his time in Madrid. In terms of ball control, dribbling, playmaking, passing, combination play and so one Messi is miles ahead of him. And remember: Historically these attributes were much more important than goalscoring ability when talking about the best player.
And on top of that, Messi at least competes with Cristiano in raw output. However, he contributes so much more to the goals he scores and he also contributes more to the goals he does not score himself. Actually, he also initiates many goalscoring chances his team mates fail to convert. It is crazy that he still produces these kind of numbers while he plays like he plays currently. In a role that is more reminiscent of a CM than a false nine.

This is also what people mean when they say it is clear that Messi is the far better player when you see them play. I admire Ronaldo for this unbelievable goalscoring ability but for at least five years I do not enjoy seeing him play. It is more like "wow, he scored again, this guy is a complete freak of nature" but most often it is enough to watch highlight videos bcause apart from his goals there is nothing to miss in his game. With Messi its totally different. He almost never fails to completely amaze me with his plays. And the thing is, he is so efficient with it. Many greats had this moments of brillants that were somehow pointless. Like Ronaldinho (my favorite all time player) who sometimes did things just for the entertainment. But with Messi, everything he does has a purpose. Just brillant.
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close thread, best post i've read. Congrats.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Come on, arguing over who has been better for their country is daft. Both haven’t done amazing. That is why I put Pele and Maradona above them both.

Messi has got to 4 finals and won 0. Ronaldo has got to 1 final and won the tournament, albeit going off injured in the final.

However, Messi has done more to get his team to the finals.

Ronaldo scored 3 goals at the Euro. 2 in the 3-3 group game. And 1 in the semi vs wales to make it 2-0.

Absurd how anyone can say Ronaldo has done better for their countries.
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He got Argentina to four finals and won the only Championship that they didn't have. The Olympic games.
 
Peyroteo said:
In 2017, Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo, Messi had more assists than Ronaldo, Messi created more chances than Ronaldo, Messi dribbled more than Ronaldo... and Ronaldo was easily the better player. How consistently good they are at different parts of the game doesn't matter as much as to when they do it.
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You didn’t dispute the main point that I made though, that over the course of their careers (not individual years as you attest) the very best players in history aren’t those who scored the most goals, or even the most goals on the biggest games (see Muller), they are those that combined output AND (outside goals) had the most influence on a football pitch. Cruyff, Maradonna, Di Stefano and Pele didn’t need to score to show their supreme class over everyone else. Remember Messis complete man of the match performance in THAT Manita (without scoring)? That’s what separates him from Ronaldo, and that’s what separates Ronaldo from the echelon of which we speak.
 
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Pocho said:
He got Argentina to four finals and won the only Championship that they didn't have. The Olympic games.
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Yes the other Argentinian players were only spectators of course.
 
People forget his 3 assists, because he only actually set up 2, the other one was he hit a shot which the keeper saved then Quaresma followed up the save and scored on the rebound. If you count that as an assist, then we'd need to sit and recalculate pretty much all goals to make sure the figures are accurate. The actual point about that is, Messi created AND scored more in his tournament, but because Ronaldo was carried to a trophy by Eder in the final, he was given more credit for his stunningly average tournament by his own standards. As usual, it was Ronaldo fans completely moving the goalposts in here to try and suit their guy. Just like now apparently league and domestic cups don't matter, (which suits the consistently less successful Ronaldo, by some astonishing coincidence), only the Champions League now matters because Ronaldo has won it 2 years in a row.

Of course, they both have 4 CL winners medals, btw. But that also doesn't seem to matter, for some reason. Ronaldo has scored more goals in the CL, THAT is now what matters. Of course, Messi is in a horrible, distant, utterly pointless second place, having reached 100 goals quicker, as a younger player.

Stats matter. Except when they don't.
 
VBI said:
People forget his 3 assists, because he only actually set up 2, the other one was he hit a shot which the keeper saved then Quaresma followed up the save and scored on the rebound. If you count that as an assist, then we'd need to sit and recalculate pretty much all goals to make sure the figures are accurate. The actual point about that is, Messi created AND scored more in his tournament, but because Ronaldo was carried to a trophy by Eder in the final, he was given more credit for his stunningly average tournament by his own standards. As usual, it was Ronaldo fans completely moving the goalposts in here to try and suit their guy. Just like now apparently league and domestic cups don't matter, (which suits the consistently less successful Ronaldo, by some astonishing coincidence), only the Champions League now matters because Ronaldo has won it 2 years in a row.

Of course, they both have 4 CL winners medals, btw. But that also doesn't seem to matter, for some reason. Ronaldo has scored more goals in the CL, THAT is now what matters. Of course, Messi is in a horrible, distant, utterly pointless second place, having reached 100 goals quicker, as a younger player.

Stats matter. Except when they don't.
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Always easy to debate when you make up others' points, make them sound stupid and completely inaccurate and then argue those instead.
 
Peyroteo said:
Always easy to debate when you make up others' points, make them sound stupid and completely inaccurate and then argue those instead.
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That's pretty rich coming from you. We get its your countryman but its a little sad how much you like to twist and turn things to suit your argument. :lol:
 
SCP said:
Yes the other Argentinian players were only spectators of course.
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Indeed. They way these Messi fans talk one would think he is the sole reason any side he plays for perform and wins and he ONLY ends up on the losing side because "others' (team mates, coach, ref, the football association). Its plain insane!
 
This has got to be the dumbest debate in football. They are both great and both are better at different aspects of the game. There really isn't a right answer to this question. And why do people get so passionate about it? Why can't we just appreciate the fact that each week we get to see the 2 best players of all time play and are fortunate enough to get to see them play against each other as well...
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Indeed. They way these Messi fans talk one would think he is the sole reason any side he plays for perform and wins and he ONLY ends up on the losing side because "others' (team mates, coach, ref, the football association). Its plain insane!
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Yup listening to them you might think Di Maria, Zabaleta, Garay or Mascherano were pub players!
 
thelittlestelf said:
That's pretty rich coming from you. We get its your countryman but its a little sad how much you like to twist and turn things to suit your argument. :lol:
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I didn't twist and turn anything, my argument's been the exact same since the first post I've made in this thread and I've changed my opinion on who's been better plenty of times. I'm the first one to say if Messi goes on to dominate the World Cup and the Champions League I'll change my opinion again. His comment was pretty much a series of complete and utter lies. This is if you're not biased enough to believe Ronaldo got carried by Eder to a trophy to actually even consider his comment at all

thelittlestelf said:
You can't just discount one competition and put the other on a pedestal. League is the measure of consistency and thats where Messi has been better. Ronaldo has stepped it up big time in the Champions league but to put it down to just him would be insane. Ramos, Modric and development of Casemiro has been crucial to Madrid becoming a better side as well.

Pyro you seem extremely desperate, you claim its fine for others to think someone is better but then you go on to tell them why their wrong.
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That's because their reasoning for it makes no sense at all so I disagree and tell them why, what's the problem?

I didn't discount one competition and put the other on a pedestal, I put them on their actual value and how much they do for a club's trophy cabinet.
 
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I actually probably am a Ronaldo fanboy in that I prefer watching him play and have always wanted him to succeed far more than Messi, but I think Messi is the better player, cause he just is, it's obvious from watching them both.

Sue me.
 
You can't claim Messi is more consistent in the league since they're both monsters. Thats a ridiculous thing to say.
We all know Messi is alround a better player but its hilarious to see the argument based on facts etc be such a hard sell that nonsense like this is used to stretch a point.
Most points scoring written on paper points to Ronaldo, thats simply how it is. Its why every other achievement of Ronaldos seems to have a fecking "Yes, but.." attached.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I actually probably am a Ronaldo fanboy in that I prefer watching him play and have always wanted him to succeed far more than Messi, but I think Messi is the better player, cause he just is, it's obvious from watching them both.

Sue me.
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Same. Being a United fan and having witnessed his brilliance for us I desperately want to say Ronaldo is better but he quite simply isn't. And once you look beyond the stats I don't think its even that close.
 
I also say Messi is better but not with the same arguments and sometimes mytical lies spread here by Messi fans.
 
Tostao_80 said:
You didn’t dispute the main point that I made though, that over the course of their careers (not individual years as you attest) the very best players in history aren’t those who scored the most goals, or even the most goals on the biggest games (see Muller), they are those that combined output AND (outside goals) had the most influence on a football pitch. Cruyff, Maradonna, Di Stefano and Pele didn’t need to score to show their supreme class over everyone else. Remember Messis complete man of the match performance in THAT Manita (without scoring)? That’s what separates him from Ronaldo, and that’s what separates Ronaldo from the echelon of which we speak.
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I did challenge your point, you just apparently completely misunderstood mine so again, I'll repeat it.

In 2017 Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo, he had more assists than Ronaldo, he created more chances than Ronaldo, he lost the ball less often than Ronaldo, he dribbled more often than Ronaldo... and Ronaldo was easily the better player. Why is something like that is possible? Because all competitons, all games and all goals are not all worth the same. There seems to be a whole bunch of football fans who can't understand this concept at all.

Arguing Messi is better because he scores about the same but he creates more makes no sense at all.

The very best players in history aren't those who score more goals and they aren't those who did more outside of goals, they're the ones who have best performances overall taking into account the importance of said performances. If Maradona doesn't perform in those 2 World Cups would he be remembered as clearly being better than Platini?
 
Zehner said:
Yes, Ronaldo Lima was a pure striker. But in his prime he created goals solely on his own because he was just an unstoppable force through his pace, dribbling and unbelievable ball control. On top of being a brillant finisher. I simply feel like, especially the latter Cristiano, did/does not contribute so much to his own goals. He simply has the last contact before the ball passes the line but his goals are rarely accomplished through great plays or anything like that. He is a very clinical finisher, yes, and has very impressive positioning inside the box but outside of it he simply is no longer a player to be afraid of.

And no, my point is not that Messi is the more aesthetically pleasing player. My point is that he contributes more to the goals his teams score. You see Messi's goals and you geniunely believe that there is no other player on this planet that would have scored this one. Why? Because he received the ball in midfield, dribbles two players, plays a one two with the strike, dribbles another one and then finishes precisely in the corner. And on top of that he sets up his team mates constantly with brillant passes and link up player.

With Cristiano I think it is the other way round. He often is the last player to touch the ball but most often I feel like the goal "belongs to some of his team mates" because they made much more decisive plays. I watch many Real Madrid games. Countless times Ronaldo scored two or three goals, was regarded the best player and I found it odd because he was good but I thought that Modric, Kroos or Marcelo had much more impressive performances. Yet, Cristiano got all the credit because again, he had the last contact before the ball passed the line. And yes, I know that this still needs instinct, determination, situational awareness and guts but I think the other things are much harder to do.

And also: Historically, playmakers, dribblers and creaters were the best players, not goalscorers. And Messi is as good as any of them in these disciplines while he is arguably only closely behind Cristiano in goalscoring (an ability that was never regarded as decisive when it comes to the GOAT question before CR7 because otherwise people like Maradona, Beckenbauer or Cruyff would not even be in the discussion).

Thanks for the commendation by the way, appreciate it :)
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Here's another good example of people here tend to comparing Ronaldo Lima at his very short early peak, with Ronaldo at his 30-33's.

How about comparing the older/fat/low-scoring version of Ronaldo Lima (which span over half of his career) with Ronaldo at his peak mid-20's with electrifying pace/flair/skill/athleticism+goalscoring?
 
Peyroteo said:
I did challenge your point, you just apparently completely misunderstood mine so again, I'll repeat it.

In 2017 Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo, he had more assists than Ronaldo, he created more chances than Ronaldo, he lost the ball less often than Ronaldo, he dribbled more often than Ronaldo... and Ronaldo was easily the better player. Why is something like that is possible? Because all competitons, all games and all goals are not all worth the same. There seems to be a whole bunch of football fans who can't understand this concept at all.

Arguing Messi is better because he scores about the same but he creates more makes no sense at all.
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To be fair, arguing that Ronaldo is better because he was born in the same country as you doesn't make much sense either.
 
So when Messi and Ronaldo are very close to each other
Zehner said:
I think many people tend to reduce this discussion to goals although that's the wrong approach in my eyes. Yes, in the end the game is all about goals but in many occasions it is not the player that scored it/had the last contact before the ball passes the line who contributed the most to it. We all know the phrase "XYZ scored it but this goal clearly belongs to ZYX!" And the same goes for assists. A player that dribbles three opponent to create himself the space needed to pass through another two defenders in order to set up a goal contributed much more than someone who played a simple pass or flank. The game is just too complicated to capture a players performance in these two simple but most popular statistics. Messi himself recently said in an interview that he evaluates his games differently and occasionally he had bad games although he scored one or even multiple goals while others were good albeit he did not score at all.

In my opinion Cristiano can compete with Messi in pure goalscoring ability and maybe even edges it. They have similar statistics with Messi having the greater peak and Ronaldo having a better record in big games. His off the ball movement is simply unreal, his finishing in the box is superb and he really shines on the big stage. I can understand both sides in this regard since it is really close and whoever wins it does so by a very small margin.

However, in the GOAT discussion it is quite different for me. If you see those lists with the greatest players of their respective eras - Pele, Eusebio, Puskas, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Zico, Platini, Maradona, Laudrup, Zidane, Ronaldo Lima, Ronaldinho, Messi, Cristiano - it is clear that CR7 stands out because he is a different type of player than all the others.
In the past, the best player was almost never the one that scored the greatest amount of goals. In Germany, nobody regards Gerd Müller being better than Franz Beckenbauer. Eto'o or van Nistelroy were never held as high as Ronaldinho, Zidane or Ronaldo Lima. Historically, attributes like dribbling ability, passing, link up player and so on were much more important than goalscoring. And this is due to the dynamics I described initially: Yes, after all the team which scored more goals wins the match. But many times, it is not the scorer who contributed the most to a goal.

And for this reason, it has to be Messi. He is just so much more influential on the pitch. I think that the Manchester United Ronaldo was actually the best version of him and the one closest to Messi performance-wise. He may have scored slightly less but he was just so dangerous and completely able to create goals solely on his own. This style faded more and more during his time in Madrid. In terms of ball control, dribbling, playmaking, passing, combination play and so one Messi is miles ahead of him. And remember: Historically these attributes were much more important than goalscoring ability when talking about the best player.
And on top of that, Messi at least competes with Cristiano in raw output. However, he contributes so much more to the goals he scores and he also contributes more to the goals he does not score himself. Actually, he also initiates many goalscoring chances his team mates fail to convert. It is crazy that he still produces these kind of numbers while he plays like he plays currently. In a role that is more reminiscent of a CM than a false nine.

This is also what people mean when they say it is clear that Messi is the far better player when you see them play. I admire Ronaldo for this unbelievable goalscoring ability but for at least five years I do not enjoy seeing him play. It is more like "wow, he scored again, this guy is a complete freak of nature" but most often it is enough to watch highlight videos bcause apart from his goals there is nothing to miss in his game. With Messi its totally different. He almost never fails to completely amaze me with his plays. And the thing is, he is so efficient with it. Many greats had this moments of brillants that were somehow pointless. Like Ronaldinho (my favorite all time player) who sometimes did things just for the entertainment. But with Messi, everything he does has a purpose. Just brillant.
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Wauw what a post.

Ronaldo is the best example ever of what a monster you can create when you combine athleticism, top professionalism and a push your football talent to your absolute maximum.
These so called "tap goals" his scores will always looks easy when it is done by the best in the job. The truth is that he probably has put much effort into his trainnig than any others. It is so admirable!

But for me, watching Messi is just something different. It is like seeing a U10 football match where one player just is much better than all the others. Many of the goals he scores is goals that only he can produce. I could say the same for his countless "wow-moments".

Watching both plays I expect goals from both of them but in difference I also expect the unexpected from Messi. This feeling makes me choose Messi above Ronaldo.
 
Peyroteo said:
I did challenge your point, you just apparently completely misunderstood mine so again, I'll repeat it.

In 2017 Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo, he had more assists than Ronaldo, he created more chances than Ronaldo, he lost the ball less often than Ronaldo, he dribbled more often than Ronaldo... and Ronaldo was easily the better player. Why is something like that is possible? Because all competitons, all games and all goals are not all worth the same. There seems to be a whole bunch of football fans who can't understand this concept at all.

Arguing Messi is better because he scores about the same but he creates more makes no sense at all.

The very best players in history aren't those who score more goals and they aren't those who did more outside of goals, they're the ones who have best performances overall taking into account the importance of said performances. If Maradona doesn't perform in those 2 World Cups would he be remembered as clearly being better than Platini?
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That's like your opinion... you know? It's not a fact

In 2013 Ronaldo scored an insane amount of goals during the year but he didn't deliver against Borussia in the CL, in 2017 he scored much less but he scored 5 goals against Bayern, 2 vs Juve, 3 vs Atletico in the CL. I would take 2013 Ronaldo over last year's Ronaldo because he scored more, assisted more, dribbled more and created more chances during the season and the year. and I actually thought that year was better than Messi, like in 2014.

You keep repeating that you put Ronaldo above Messi because you think he outperformed him in the CL(which I agree) and internationally(which I don't agree) but you can't seem to accept that other people have different criteria from yours to judge how good a player is
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
The actual crux of the matter. Refusal to believe
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Well, that little fella has been averaging like 50 goals a season for a decade, at the highest club level.
Plus, he’s one of the greatest passers of the ball i’ve ever seen and made some of the greatest defenders look like mugs, time and time again.
I’ve lost count how many times he went past 2-3-4 players and scored or created ridiculous goals.

He is not a normal footballer.
There’s absolutely no room for comparison between the two.
 
Massive Spanner said:
To be fair, arguing that Ronaldo is better because he was born in the same country as you doesn't make much sense either.
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I argue Ronaldo's better because I think Ronaldo's better. Just like a few years ago I argued Messi was better and if Messi goes on to dominate the CL and the World Cup I'll argue he's better. I've explained why enough times.

Good to see a self proclaimed Ronaldo fanboy be so offended by it though.
 
SCP said:
Yes the other Argentinian players were only spectators of course.
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Sometimes they are worst than spectators, sometimes they get on his way. Trust me, I watch every game Argentina plays.
 
Peyroteo said:
I argue Ronaldo's better because I think Ronaldo's better. Just like a few years ago I argued Messi was better and if Messi goes on to dominate the CL and the World Cup I'll argue he's better. I've explained why enough times.

Good to see a self proclaimed Ronaldo fanboy be so offended by it though.
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I'm not offended, I was making a joke :lol: Christ.
 
IndyDC said:
You have to take everything into account.

Messi benefited from that ridiculous Xavi-Iniesta axis. Sure, Ronaldo didn't exactly play with poor players, but they were not on Xavi and Iniesta levels. Then, Messi had an outrageously talented twosome to play alongside in Neymar and Suarez as well! I'm sorry, but Bale and Benzema just do not compare. That into account, even Ronaldo getting anywhere close is astonishing, never mind surpassing him. This is also completely excluding his time at United - while Messi was playing with Ronaldinho, Eto'o and the like in 2005-6, Ronaldo was playing with the likes of Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and Alan Smith...
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Cristiano has played with the likes of Modric, Kroos, Özil, James who are absolutely phenomenal footballers and Benzema has been the 2nd best F9 after Messi while also being a very good striker (Mourinho-era + 15/16 season). That Cristiano-Benzema partnership is one of the best ever in football history. I'd agree with you on Bale however.

The idea that Cristiano played with some scrub at Madrid is rubbish.
 
PuyolC said:
That's like your opinion... you know? It's not a fact

In 2013 Ronaldo scored an insane amount of goals during the year but he didn't deliver against Borussia in the CL, in 2017 he scored much less but he scored 5 goals against Bayern, 2 vs Juve, 3 vs Atletico in the CL. I would take 2013 Ronaldo over last year's Ronaldo because he scored more, assisted more, dribbled more and created more chances during the season and the year. and I actually thought that year was better than Messi, like in 2014.

You keep repeating that you put Ronaldo above Messi because you think he outperformed him in the CL(which I agree) and internationally(which I don't agree) but you can't seem to accept that other people have different criteria from yours to judge how good a player is
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I accept others may have different criteria, I just completely disagree with it and I think the majority here is thinking about it the wrong way.
 
SCP said:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/messi-c...i-wants-icardi-and/1ahww8oekgeis1xixid29e2vjs
Doesn't want Icardi in the team.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/dybala-messi-juventus-barcelona-champions-10220924
Probably doesn't help Dybala much.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/footb...leaves-early-as-argentina-humiliated-by-spain~
Leaving before the end of the game vs Spain. Serious question, is he a good leader?
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OLE_20180329_01.jpg



Messi went straight to he dressing rooms after the 6-1, and he waited for his teammates. He said "De esto salimos entre todos" to them, which means "We will go through this together guys"

Definitively not a leader.
 
Peyroteo said:
I accept others may have different criteria, I just completely disagree with it and I think the majority here is thinking about it the wrong way.
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There's not a right or wrong way, people who say Messi is better think that you're thinking about it the wrong way too.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Here's another good example of people here tend to comparing Ronaldo Lima at his very short early peak, with Ronaldo at his 30-33's.

How about comparing the older/fat/low-scoring version of Ronaldo Lima (which span over half of his career) with Ronaldo at his peak mid-20's with electrifying pace/flair/skill/athleticism+goalscoring?
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I did not bring in this comparison, Cal? did. Cristiano obviously had the greater career but peak Ronaldo Lima was up there with the best ever if you ask me. He really was a phenomenon and in my opinion, he was better than peak Cristiano. They both had this incredible bursts of speed and could simply outrun opponents but R9 was incredible on the ball. CR7 too, but I felt like most of the skills he did were more "mockery" and less efficient. Purely entertaining. But Ronaldo did tricks and moves you never thought could be efficient in professional football. Yet, he did. The only other player to do this was Ronaldinho but he lacked Ronaldo's killer instinct and pace. It is a question of preference since Cristiano obviously outperforms R9 in terms of longevity.
I also do not understand why you guys permanently think someone wants to downplay Cristiano. I admire him and I do not say the things I say because I want to downtalk his accomplishments. It is simply that he does not belong in the same tier as Messi for me for the reasons I described earlier. I think it is amazing that he achieved to be mentioned among Maradona, Messi, Pele and so on with his playing style but he lacks abilities that the others have - and used efficiently.

I can only repeat myself but for me the one to score the goal, which means the player that has the last contact with the ball before it passes the line, did not necessarily contribute the most to it. As I said, for me it is all about this contribution. And with Messi you feel like he contributes so much more to his own goals (by beating players, link up play, brillant finishes and so on) as well as the goals of his team mates. And even to "goals never to be scored" since others messed up the opportunities he created. You can hardly capture these things in statistics and due to that football has to be reviewed in a qualitative and not a quantitative manner. It is the easy way to just look at the goals a player scored in total. If you look at each goal individually you will see how decisive the scoring player was and in that I think Messi outperforms Ronaldo tremendously. He consistently scores goals that would be career highlights for other players. And its business as usual for him.

However, I don't want to take away Ronaldo's skills Cal? is right when he says that he makes it seem easy to "stand in the right position and score tap ins". He is probably one of the best ever in this regard. Yet, I rate other skills more important than that. It is not that Messi simply "has the skills" like the touch, the passing ability, the ball control and the pace. He is also an incredibly intelligent player that reads the game like few else. His decision making and risk taking is simply brillant and I think it takes just as much intelligence, awareness, instinct and understanding as Ronaldos positional play - yet it also requires superior skills. And it makes Messi more influential and hard to defend. He is adaptable. If his team needs him there, he can as well drop into the midfield. You can never take him out of the game. With Cristiano it is a different story because since he moved from United, he never depicted such a danger from outside the box. Before that, it is a different debate. But for me, Messi is still better in this regard than peak Cristiano at Manchester.
 
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Pocho said:
Sometimes they are worst than spectators, sometimes they get on his way. Trust me, I watch every game Argentina plays.
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Trust me as a portuguese who watches every game Portugal plays no way Messi was worse players around him.
IFC 1905 said:
Messi went straight to he dressing rooms after the 6-1, and he waited for his teammates. He said "De esto salimos entre todos" to them, which means "We will go through this together guys"

Definitively not a leader.
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:lol: What is this? Don't you know how the press works? After all he is the manager of the team, Sampaoli already said there is nothing more than Messi.
 
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