I get what you mean. The award has become a shifting sand of merit and popularity.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Expressing opinions is a right. Refusal to believe though, is laughble
I''ve been saying for years that a player wins as much as his teams "carries" him to, not the other way around.
I've seen both players try their hardest, at their peak, and lose, some of their best games have happened in defeats, that's why I'm against the whole "Now Ronaldo is the best UCL player ever" thing, he wasn't it before, and he isn't it now that he scores for fun while being 80% of the player he was years ago, thanks to a squad that's basically at the level Barcelona had from 2008 to 2012, but with better subs.
I can't get your point with replies like the one you just made, to say that Ronaldo is better either at general level or UCL, that he's won more lately? We can't disregard what a big part of that lies on his teammates, same way everyone could think after 2011 that Messi would have 8 UCL titles by 2020, or that the MSN looked great to nail the first repeat in UCL history, yet it never happened, because other team got stacked.
There's kind of a romantic moral in the notion that the best season any player has ever had (Leo's 73 goals) was destroyed by a missed penalty against Di Matteo's Chelsea, and 9 points behind Real Madrid in the league
I don't think that any other example in football history shows better the struggle between the best effort ever, individually-wise, and the fact that any year or even whole careers can be skewed up by team performances, which are 90% out of your control. The reason I think Leo is the best player ever (from which I've seen with my eyes) it's because no other comes closer to him in the art of an individual infliuencing a team-oriented game.
At team sports of the highest level, the only thing above Leo I've seen is what LeBron did on his Cavs title season vs the Warriors, and it's not even the same, he also got help (like Leo from teammates, of course), but it's just 5v5, not 11v11.
I''ve been saying for years that a player wins as much as his teams "carries" him to, not the other way around.
I've seen both players try their hardest, at their peak, and lose, some of their best games have happened in defeats, that's why I'm against the whole "Now Ronaldo is the best UCL player ever" thing, he wasn't it before, and he isn't it now that he scores for fun while being 80% of the player he was years ago, thanks to a squad that's basically at the level Barcelona had from 2008 to 2012, but with better subs.
I can't get your point with replies like the one you just made, to say that Ronaldo is better either at general level or UCL, that he's won more lately? We can't disregard what a big part of that lies on his teammates, same way everyone could think after 2011 that Messi would have 8 UCL titles by 2020, or that the MSN looked great to nail the first repeat in UCL history, yet it never happened, because other team got stacked.
There's kind of a romantic moral in the notion that the best season any player has ever had (Leo's 73 goals) was destroyed by a missed penalty against Di Matteo's Chelsea, and 9 points behind Real Madrid in the league
I don't think that any other example in football history shows better the struggle between the best effort ever, individually-wise, and the fact that any year or even whole careers can be skewed up by team performances, which are 90% out of your control. The reason I think Leo is the best player ever (from which I've seen with my eyes) it's because no other comes closer to him in the art of an individual infliuencing a team-oriented game.
At team sports of the highest level, the only thing above Leo I've seen is what LeBron did on his Cavs title season vs the Warriors, and it's not even the same, he also got help (like Leo from teammates, of course), but it's just 5v5, not 11v11.
No, I never said that Ronaldo is the better CL player because he's won more lately. I say he's the best CL player out of the two of them because he's performed better overall throughout their careers (in the CL).
As for Messi's 2012 I don't think it was his best season ever either. He consistently performed at a higher level than anyone I've seen that year but it still wasn't the best season, the 3 biggest games were all 3 in a row - Chelsea away, Real Madrid at home and Chelsea at home and what happened? I'm not talking about the team or the results, I'm talking about his performances which were not at the standard they were for the rest of the season.
I don't understand though, now you are arguing against what you were arguing in your last comment. So Ronaldo can't be the best CL player ever because he didn't win it in the first 4 years at Madrid in his prime but Messi's 2012 can be the best season ever despite not winning anything? I don't think I understood what you meant.
Each to their own. It's the debate of the decade and will continue to do so for another few years till both of them hang up their boots.
Ronaldo is a machine running on a never ending battery (similar to those duracell advertisements). He is obsessed with himself in being the best in football (and others) and also learn! For me that is something we can see in Ronaldo over the years how he has adapted his game to suit his superb athleticism. Ronaldo may not be joy to watch but he does score the incredible goals for the team and himself - that's what matters! With the never quitting attitude, he has given us incredible football over the years and for years to come!
Messi, on the other hand is inexplicable. He makes football look so easy, so effortless and at times he is like a playStation character! As some have posted here earlier, he is like a cheat code. He is undoubtedly a gifted player and always has something different to any other player on the pitch - hungry to score more and win! He is an absolute joy to watch and words fail to describe him.
Of course both have their off days/games - but that doesn't mean that they are on the decline! To me, both have different skill sets and are completely different personalities. Once they retire, normalcy will most likely return to football with Ballon D'or's not being the personal properties of either of them!
It's a shame they were never in the same team.
Ronaldo is a machine running on a never ending battery (similar to those duracell advertisements). He is obsessed with himself in being the best in football (and others) and also learn! For me that is something we can see in Ronaldo over the years how he has adapted his game to suit his superb athleticism. Ronaldo may not be joy to watch but he does score the incredible goals for the team and himself - that's what matters! With the never quitting attitude, he has given us incredible football over the years and for years to come!
Messi, on the other hand is inexplicable. He makes football look so easy, so effortless and at times he is like a playStation character! As some have posted here earlier, he is like a cheat code. He is undoubtedly a gifted player and always has something different to any other player on the pitch - hungry to score more and win! He is an absolute joy to watch and words fail to describe him.
Of course both have their off days/games - but that doesn't mean that they are on the decline! To me, both have different skill sets and are completely different personalities. Once they retire, normalcy will most likely return to football with Ballon D'or's not being the personal properties of either of them!
It's a shame they were never in the same team.
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It was pretty close to happening too, if Barcelona go for Ronaldo instead of Quaresma in 2003...
Honestly this thread can be a good therapy for laughing if we don't take this too seriously and respect each other's opinions, that's all I have to say.
It's 71-29 because it is a United forum.....everywhere else it's probably even more lopsided. It's barely an insult, it's just yeah.
100% agree.
On most football forums this isn't even a debate actually.
I’ve been following the forum for a very long time and you’ve got some united fans here who would be screaming Ronaldo even when United lose very important games, that’s how obsessed they are
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You can compare Messi and Ronaldo solely in goal scoring prospect but Ronaldo is no where near THE GOAT Messi in complete footballer prospect.
Goal Machine
Vision like no one has
Passing maestro
Assist king
Thunderbolt left foot
Free kick sensation lately
Delightful dribbling
Hurricane speed
Magic in minutes
Absolutely joy to watch. 90 minutes is never enough and obsessed for more additional minutes to witness the magic. He is a magician
Goal Machine
Vision like no one has
Passing maestro
Assist king
Thunderbolt left foot
Free kick sensation lately
Delightful dribbling
Hurricane speed
Magic in minutes
Absolutely joy to watch. 90 minutes is never enough and obsessed for more additional minutes to witness the magic. He is a magician
Not true at all but seems like that doesn't matter
In a poll on the MessivsRonaldo.net website, Messi is currently No. 1 according to the fans:
- Ronaldo: 39% – 178,499 votes
- Messi: 61% – 284,329 votes
- Total votes: 462,827 (as of 26 March)
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No one has denied that Messi is viewed more favourably for more people.
But a 61-39 splits is certainly not:
I don't get your argumentation, honestly. Why do you think Ronaldo performed better than Messi in their CL career? Messi is the youngest player to reach 100 goals in the CL while Ronaldo recently impressed with goals in the knock out stages. But again, the Cristiano of the last three or four seasons was more or less a pure goal scorer and contributed nothing for his team outside the box. Exemplarily, I thought Messi's performance against Bayern was much more impressive than any of CR7's legs in the last season. Because, again, Messi contributed much more to the game while Ronaldo is usually invisible until the ball is in the box. I havn't seen a good game of Ronaldo in which he didn't score for ages.I think it is no coincidence that Real's CL success started with Modric stepping up and Kroos arriving.
It is actually a very good example of how team success influences the public impression of a player's individual performance. CR7 won all his CLs with RM when he was already past his peak and had adjusted his game to being a pure goal machine.
Imagine for an instance the scenario that PSG won the CL with Cavani scoring that many goals being the player thsr he ist - would anybody have thought he was the best in the world or even the best player of his team before Neymar? No because he simply contributes nothing besides his goals.
After all, this goal obsession is the focal point in all of these Messi vs Ronaldo discussions. I feel like the Cristiano side always tries to emphasize goal statistics because that is the only way CR7 can compete with Messi. Ironically, this debate could very well be sattled if Messi would not score that much because then it would npt always be eeduced to goal scoring and his other abilities which are so unbelievable important for his teams would be highlighted more.
It is weird actually because people never paid that much attention to goals as they do currently. Otherwise Maradona would never have been compared to Pele. Actually, only Pele, Eusebio and Zico would remain in the GOAT discussion because people like Diego, Cruyff, Best, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc. never scored that many goals.
True indeed. Another interesting tidbit (doesn’t move the needle either way). We are often told by Cristiano fans is that one of his advantages over Messi is his long shots. Facts: Messi has 98 goals outside the box, compared to Cristianos 99 goals in 901. Messi is indeed better at long shots outside the box.
i think it silly to say that Cristiano contributes nothing but goal in a demeaning way.
I mean goal is the most decisive contribution in football.
well Cristiano used to belt a few from 30+ meters sometimes back, hence people go on about it. Although it is a forced trivial point boiling from the this debate.
But Messi has proven that he is as dangerous as any footballer who ever lived from 25meters or less.
I don't agree at all. In fact in England most neutrals I've talked with think Ronaldo is the better player because he did it in the Prem. In the UK I think you'd find most people see Ronaldo as the better player.
http://www.barcelonafootballblog.co...ronaldo-article-number-95367185-and-counting/
Brilliant blog analyzing both as pure goalscorers
Brilliant blog analyzing both as pure goalscorers
When reading the Messi vs. Ronaldo thread is more interesting than watching Arsenal play
Interesting stats. No surprise Messi scored more dribble goals (18% vs 7%) and Ronaldo scored more headers (109 vs 25) and with his weaker foot (31% vs 14%). But surprisingly for tap-in goals, Ronaldo scored 87 vs Messi 61, its not as big difference as most people believe it is (most portrait Ronaldo only score tap-ins whereas Messi scored beautiful solo goals). Another interesting stats is, Messi scored more goals outside the box (52 vs 46), whereas Ronaldo scored more freekicks (54 vs 40). For skills shots (volley, bicycle kicks, backheels etc), its Ronaldo being more flashy (29 vs 16).
Because I think he's performed better, more goals, more assists, more goals in the knockouts, more assists in the knockouts, disappears a lot less often and has had the biggest influence in the latter stages of the competition.
Not recently, always. Youngest to reach 100 goals says me nothing if most goals come in the group stages or at unimportant times. That goes for both of them, don't really care about Ronaldo scoring against Apoel in a 6-0 win or about him scoring against Atletico in the 2014 final.
Why do you think last year he was the best player on the pitch in the Napoli round, without scoring a single goal? I'd like that explained then.
Let me try to understand it then, if Ronaldo plays exactly the same way, but Modric and Kroos were around for his prime years and they win the CL then you'd rate him higher than you do now? What if Messi wasn't part of the greatest team of all time in his prime, you know the guys that pretty much won 2 Euros and 1 World Cup without him? If they weren't around then but only when Messi declined, you'd rate Messi lower? It's such a nonsensical argument I'm not even sure if I understood it right.
And that only applies to Ronaldo, right? Not to the guy who spent his prime playing for the best team of all time, followed it by playing next to Neymar and Luis Suarez and looks half the player when playing for his country?
The pure goal machine simultaneously has more assists and creates more chances than anyone on his team. That's incredible, I don't know if you people are actually talking about the same Cristiano Ronaldo I'm talking about sometimes. 2013/14 was arguably his best season ever when they won La Decima for fecks sake. He got injured at the end of it but other than that... how the hell wasn't that his prime?
Anyone that scores 10 huge goals in the last 5 CL games against arguably the 3 best defenses in the world will be up there for sure. If you were unimpressed by one of the best runs of form you'll ever see, that says more about you than it does about Ronaldo.
And again, you pretending he does nothing outside of goals doesn't make it even remotely close to true. Ronaldo got Javi Martinez sent off, he created a bunch of chances and again, was the the best player on the pitch in the only round he didn't score a goal in. But sure, now he's Edinson fecking Cavani.
@Peyroteo you probably only need a few fingers to count how many times Ronaldo has been clearly the best player on the park when he doesn’t score.
Messi on the other hand...
Messi on the other hand...
Only need a few fingers to count your good posts on this thread too, if you actually think that is true then I have no idea what to tell you
I guess I’m in the minority therefore I can’t disagree
You’re Portuguese right?
Amazed that people still debate this. Ronaldo is one of the greatest ever players but it's not even close now.
It’s obviously a debate. But a debate that Messi wins like he is winning here.
Ronaldo did exist before 2015 you know.
Right. Is Messi’s asshole a country?
A few pages ago Messi was better because you had seen him live and that's how you judge the true level of a player, now Messi's better because of a poll voted by people who mostly haven't watched him live.
Right. Is Messi’s asshole a country?
A few pages ago Messi was better because you had seen him live and that's how you judge the true level of a player, now Messi's better because of a poll voted by people who mostly haven't watched him live.
I was merely going to bring attention to the fact that it’s okay for you to view your compatriot as the better player like I’m sure most of Portugal does. No issue with that whatsoever.
I just... don't get where this idea that Ronaldo has done better overall than Messi in their UCL career, sorry but I can't grasp it.
Like some others had said, even when he doesn't score, or when he loses, he's the focal point of the team. He's been clutch for his team at least as many times as Ronaldo for Real Madrid/United, and as you've been saying, is not just about output, he's left some of the most iconic plays in the last decade of the competition, like his leg deciding moments in SF vs Bayern and Real Madrid all by himself, the goal vs Arsenal, his performance in 2011 final vs United, the comeback vs Milan or him saving the leg vs PSG in 2013, coming in at 61', injured, and taking over the game.
Ronaldo also wins games, but he can't take them over with that "ok, give me the ball, I'm bossing this one" and improve the level of evertyone playing around him, that's something only a midfielder/10 can do, not usually a winger, and definitely not a scoring-focused winger.
Thanks, man. I really thought it wasn't okay before you said that but now I've changed my mind and I feel comfortable having a different opinion than yours. This is such a beautiful and heartwarming moment... but if you could actually address any of my points and argue them in a way that makes a tiny bit of sense, maybe that would be for the better next time.
Which one would you like me to start with?
Messi is the player who can get the ball and improve the level of everyone around him... what the actual feck happens in Argentina then? Or do those magical powers only apply to players in a Barcelona shirt? If you think Messi has that power, shouldn't he be blamed when his teammates play like crap then?
You say that when Messi doesn't score or he doesn't assist, he's the focal point of the team but that's only true sometimes. What happened last year? He was average both against PSG and against Juve so you pretending that's always true... doesn't make it true. He's had plenty of big moments in the Champions League, Ronaldo's had plenty of big moments in the Champions League, they've both gone missing a few times. One just does it way less often than the other in the big CL games which is why one assists, scores and performs way more often than the other at that stage of the competition.
If you can't even grasp how some people consider Ronaldo the better CL player of the two then I really don't know what to say and I'm sure there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. We must be watching different sports.
You choose
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