Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Vialli_92]

Great goalscorer Ronaldo is but he's got nothing on Messi as a footballer

They couldn't be any further away in terms of who is the better football but because Ronaldo has a whole team built around him to finish off the goals he's seen in the same tier as Messi

Messi will run circles around Ronaldo, sure Ronaldo may score a goal but he can't do what Messi does on the pitch week in week out and that is consistently create chances, make space for his team mates, start the attack from midfield and score 50 goals a year while playing as a CM

Ronaldo plays 20-30 yards further up the pitch than Messi and Messi still puts out similar numbers to him
Ronaldo excels in one category and that is playing around the box with one or two touches he's the ultimate poacher

When Messi played like Ronaldo and had the team built around him to score goals he scored over 90 goals in a calendar year

Ronaldo hasn't come close to that ever

Great goalscorer Ronaldo is but as a footballer there have been so many better than him

Like I said before he's not even the best Ronaldo

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/5583/Show/Cristiano-Ronaldo

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/11119/Show/Lionel-Messi

One look at these stats will show Messi is by far the better player and it shouldn't even be close

 

[Gareth williams]

Messi could easily play either xavis or iniestas roles. 2 players who changed how midfielders played and he's probably better than both of them in their favoured positions. He's outlandishly good at so many different aspects of the game.

 

[Righteous Steps]

The surest sign of a footballing idiot is someone who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi.

To preempt the inevitable quote that will brought up, SAF was Ronaldo's coach and father figure - he's never going to offer a dispassionate opinion.

Agree.

 

[Vialli_92]

The surest sign of a footballing idiot is someone who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi.

To preempt the inevitable quote that will brought up, SAF was Ronaldo's coach and father figure - he's never going to offer a dispassionate opinion.

This is so true, that's pretty much my test to see if someone is worth having a conversation about football. If they pass i'll listen to them if not i'll just take whatever they say with a pinch of salt

 

[Zlaatan]

Surely the star player of the TEAM should bare some responsibility for the success or failure of the team?

Or are you going to say it’s always the team mates letting Messi down?

You asked "what good is being the so called better player if you have lesser seasons half the time?".. You're basically asking what good is it to be the best player in the world and do everything you can to help your team when the other guys team wins more.. In a thread about two individual players it's pretty irrelevant to compare how successful their teams are since it's 17-18 players who decides if the team is successful or not.

No matter how much responsibility Messi and Ronaldo each have they still can't decide by themselves how successful their teams will be, because it's a team sport.
I don't really know where you got your 2nd question from but no I'm not going to say that.

Barca/Messi fans talking about controversial decisions. No game ever in the history of the game was as biased towards one side as the Scandal of Stamford Bridge.

Messi went missing in most of the CL knockout games this year, even the turnaround against PSG was more due to Neymar.

It’s a myth that Messi scores wonder goals where he dribbles past lots of defenders all the time. He relies just as much on services as Ronaldo does.

There's nothing wrong with having Ronaldo as your favorite player but it's stuff like this bolded part that makes people call you a WUM. Do you even watch these two guys play?

 

[Sayros]

Luiz Ronaldo isn't even on the same level as Cristiano & co.

A lot of people seriously over-rate him due to "what could have been..." rather than how good he actually was.

You're silly. Luiz Ronaldo from the age of 19-22 was better than Cristiano ever was in his career, in a tougher era. It's not what 'could have been', it's 'what was and then taken away'.

 

[Revan]

You're silly. Luiz Ronaldo from the age of 19-22 was better than Cristiano ever was in his career, in a tougher era. It's not what 'could have been', it's 'what was and then taken away'.

Yep. He scored half as many goals as Cristiano at his best did and won feck all, but yeah, his youtube highlights were better, so he was better.

And yeah, the mythical tougher era. When players were much less professional, there was less football analysis, not as good food and other medicine/doping, but somehow the players were better.

 

[Ish]

Yep. He scored half as many goals as Cristiano at his best did and won feck all, but yeah, his youtube highlights were better, so he was better.

I do agree with the notion that a “cut off” or criteria is needed to evaluate the best from the greatest....but no one ever mentions the unfair landscape of European Football. Especially not over the past half or full decade. Barca and Real have been so dominant....these “numbers” or “trophies” won surely has a fare bit of “artificial” improvements to them, when compared to the norm?

 

[Revan]

I do agree with the notion that a “cut off” or criteria is needed to evaluate the best from the greatest....but no one ever mentions the unfair landscape of European Football. Especially not over the past half or full decade. Barca and Real have been so dominant....these “numbers” or “trophies” won surely has a fare bit of “artificial” improvements to them, when compared to the norm?

Barca and Real have been so dominant...I think that a lot of that has to do with Messi and Ronaldo playing for those two teams.

Let's not forget that Luis Ronaldo actually played during his European career for PSV, Barcelona, Inter, Real Madrid (who had just won UCL) and Milano. He won a single league title, and never came close to winning UCL. His team was always a top 2 team in the country (you can argue that Inter was a top 3 instead). He was overscored in league by the likes of Oliver Bierhoff from all players, usually Leo and Ronaldo get outscored only from each other (with exceptions) but Luis was outscored consistently from not that awesome players.

I just think that his lack of trophies, his career plagued by injuries and his number of goals for a central striker don't even put an argument about Luis Ronaldo vs Cristiano, Messi or some of the past legends like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or Di Stefano. He was an awesome player who arguably had potential to be the next Pele, but a lot of the modern judgement is 'what could have been if he didn't get injured', 'his youtube highlights look awesome' and 'he was my first footballing hero', all three arguments that I cannot take seriously. At best, he would be somewhere in top 15-20 of all time IMO, while Leo is first or second, and Cristiano is a top 5-6 player for me, probably even a top 3.

Honestly, Luis Ronaldo is closer to Henry than to Cristiano/Messi.

 

[aman92]

I think the only outstanding thing Ronaldo has over Messi is that he has dominated two different leagues instead of one. Not saying that Messi wouldn't succeed in the same way at England, but the fact Ronaldo did win. Ballon D'Or while playing in the PL does give him some valuable brownie points

 

[Pocho]

Silly debate, CR is a great scorer, Messi is the best player ever.

 

[Moby]

Luiz Ronaldo isn't even on the same level as Cristiano & co.

A lot of people seriously over-rate him due to "what could have been..." rather than how good he actually was.

Luiz Ronaldo was the best player of two world cups, reaching the final with one and winning the other with teammates like roque junior and klebersen. Cristiano cannot touch him on international level.

 

[Nucks]

Yep. He scored half as many goals as Cristiano at his best did and won feck all, but yeah, his youtube highlights were better, so he was better.

And yeah, the mythical tougher era. When players were much less professional, there was less football analysis, not as good food and other medicine/doping, but somehow the players were better.

LOL, how old are you. Really. You're acting like the 90's was the stone age. There is virtually no difference today in sports training than there was in the 90's. The stuff I did in junior (college age) in 1998, is basically no different to the stuff they are doing now, nutritionally, strength training wise (minus plyo, do they still do plyo?). I spent a dozen hours a week watching game film, breaking down players, plays, tendencies, techniques, and this is at a shitty junior level. I was 6'4 215 pounds and I ran a 4.6something 40 with a 34ish standing vertical leap. Don't confuse 1960's with 1990's. If I was doing all that in a shit junior league, I sure hope professional athletes in the worlds biggest sport were doing at least that much, lol.

The difference between the 90's and the last 15 or so years, is that there was more parity around Europe. The big dominant clubs had not yet accumulated entire rosters of world class players, creating hilarious gulfs in talent between the haves and the have nots. That is why what Ronaldo did in the 90's was so incredible for the short stint before his knees exploded. Was it more impressive than anything C.Ronaldo has done in his career? I would say no, because C.Ronaldo has done what he has done for almost a decade, which itself is absolutely insane, and several of those seasons are mind mindbogglingly good themselves. The point however is, C.Ronaldo on the teams Ronaldo played on in the 90's isn't going to do much better, and in their absolute primes, Ronaldo was faster, stronger, better on the ball. He was a force of nature.

 

[TRA007]

People saying Ronaldo is not delightful to watch have ridiculously short memories. It has only been a year since he reduced participation in the build up or relied more on service. Before that he spent seasons carrying his teams, bursting through the wings, putting in 30 yarders and all.
During Barca's years of dominance he kept his team going. People forget that Real Madrid was terribly underperforming for some years before his arrival but he lifted them up to what Madrid are now. Messi has spent his time settled in a Barca side for all his playing career, never had to adjust to a new culture or playing style. He is a better dribbler, better passer and more magical than Ronaldo. But Ronaldo is a better finisher, better header, has a better weak foot and is a better leader IMO.
And I am certainly not an 'footballing idiot' for thinking that, even if some Messi fanboys above are convinced otherwise.

 

[Luke1995]

People saying Ronaldo is not delightful to watch have ridiculously short memories. It has only been a year since he reduced participation in the build up or relied more on service. Before that he spent seasons carrying his teams, bursting through the wings, putting in 30 yarders and all.
During Barca's years of dominance he kept his team going. People forget that Real Madrid was terribly underperforming for some years before his arrival but he lifted them up to what Madrid are now. Messi has spent his time settled in a Barca side for all his playing career, never had to adjust to a new culture or playing style. He is a better dribbler, better passer and more magical than Ronaldo. But Ronaldo is a better finisher, better header, has a better weak foot and is a better leader IMO.
And I am certainly not an 'footballing idiot' for thinking that, even if some Messi fanboys above are convinced otherwise.

At Madrid he was involved in the build up heavily only in the 2009-10 season, in the sense of dropping very deep even into midfield or picking the ball at the defense and sprinting past everyone. From 2010-11 until 2013-14 he was still very involved but already started making somewhat of a transition to being in the box more and his involvement was limited to running at the wings. 2014-15 was when he started reducing more participation, although you are indeed correct that it was last year (2016-17) when he reduced it for good - I still remember some games from 2015-16 where he did a very decent job at the wings, although naturally limiting it to one on one against defenders, not heavy runs.- I'd only argue with you that in the 2013-14 season when Barça had an average coach in Tata Martino, Messi had a season below his usual level, maybe the only season of his career where he didn't seem as explosive or with a defined role, but in that particular season he had some average games and difficulty settling into the team's set-up even though he still scored 40 goals, but in short, you are correct that being developed at La Masia and playing always in the same culture has made it easier for Messi. On your last point, i'd only disagree that Ronaldo is a better finisher, even though he is incredible when concluding from crosses, he is not as good when he receives the ball on the run, being one on one against the keeper. When in that situation, Messi always chips the ball above the keeper with ease, numerous time, Ronaldo instead of using technique always shoots with power, most of times it works, but sometimes the keeper saves it or it goes wide, Messi is more clinical.

 

[lsd]

Silly debate, CR is a great scorer, Messi is the best player ever.

Nothing sillier than saying someone is the best ever .Total nonsense to think that

 

[giorno]

Barca and Real have been so dominant...I think that a lot of that has to do with Messi and Ronaldo playing for those two teams.

I think football is not basketball

 

[Righteous Steps]

Barca and Real have been so dominant...I think that a lot of that has to do with Messi and Ronaldo playing for those two teams.

Let's not forget that Luis Ronaldo actually played during his European career for PSV, Barcelona, Inter, Real Madrid (who had just won UCL) and Milano. He won a single league title, and never came close to winning UCL. His team was always a top 2 team in the country (you can argue that Inter was a top 3 instead). He was overscored in league by the likes of Oliver Bierhoff from all players, usually Leo and Ronaldo get outscored only from each other (with exceptions) but Luis was outscored consistently from not that awesome players.

I just think that his lack of trophies, his career plagued by injuries and his number of goals for a central striker don't even put an argument about Luis Ronaldo vs Cristiano, Messi or some of the past legends like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or Di Stefano. He was an awesome player who arguably had potential to be the next Pele, but a lot of the modern judgement is 'what could have been if he didn't get injured', 'his youtube highlights look awesome' and 'he was my first footballing hero', all three arguments that I cannot take seriously. At best, he would be somewhere in top 15-20 of all time IMO, while Leo is first or second, and Cristiano is a top 5-6 player for me, probably even a top 3.

Honestly, Luis Ronaldo is closer to Henry than to Cristiano/Messi.

Cristiano isn't close to being a top 3 player, he is as close as Platini is, which is like you said 5-10 region.

 

[TRA007]

At Madrid he was involved in the build up heavily only in the 2009-10 season, in the sense of dropping very deep even into midfield or picking the ball at the defense and sprinting past everyone. From 2010-11 until 2013-14 he was still very involved but already started making somewhat of a transition to being in the box more and his involvement was limited to running at the wings. 2014-15 was when he started reducing more participation, although you are indeed correct that it was last year (2016-17) when he reduced it for good - I still remember some games from 2015-16 where he did a very decent job at the wings, although naturally limiting it to one on one against defenders, not heavy runs.- I'd only argue with you that in the 2013-14 season when Barça had an average coach in Tata Martino, Messi had a season below his usual level, maybe the only season of his career where he didn't seem as explosive or with a defined role, but in that particular season he had some average games and difficulty settling into the team's set-up even though he still scored 40 goals, but in short, you are correct that being developed at La Masia and playing always in the same culture has made it easier for Messi. On your last point, i'd only disagree that Ronaldo is a better finisher, even though he is incredible when concluding from crosses, he is not as good when he receives the ball on the run, being one on one against the keeper. When in that situation, Messi always chips the ball above the keeper with ease, numerous time, Ronaldo instead of using technique always shoots with power, most of times it works, but sometimes the keeper saves it or it goes wide, Messi is more clinical.

I think Ronaldo to be the better finisher only because he can do it with both feet, left and right. Messi is a sublime finisher on his left but his right is not on the same level as Ronaldo's weaker foot. Other than that, Messi is indeed quite clinical.

 

[Cal?]

The surest sign of a footballing idiot is someone who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi.

To preempt the inevitable quote that will brought up, SAF was Ronaldo's coach and father figure - he's never going to offer a dispassionate opinion.

Agreed. I think nobody who has an idea about football and saw both play regularly for the last decade can seriously argue that Ronaldo is better than Messi. That is just ridiculous.

Agree.

This is so true, that's pretty much my test to see if someone is worth having a conversation about football. If they pass i'll listen to them if not i'll just take whatever they say with a pinch of salt

There we go with the Messi brigade, out with any coherent arguments and go with the insults. The fact is that the football world as a whole has voted Ronaldo the better player for 50% of the past decade.

Barca and Real have been so dominant...I think that a lot of that has to do with Messi and Ronaldo playing for those two teams.

Let's not forget that Luis Ronaldo actually played during his European career for PSV, Barcelona, Inter, Real Madrid (who had just won UCL) and Milano. He won a single league title, and never came close to winning UCL. His team was always a top 2 team in the country (you can argue that Inter was a top 3 instead). He was overscored in league by the likes of Oliver Bierhoff from all players, usually Leo and Ronaldo get outscored only from each other (with exceptions) but Luis was outscored consistently from not that awesome players.

I just think that his lack of trophies, his career plagued by injuries and his number of goals for a central striker don't even put an argument about Luis Ronaldo vs Cristiano, Messi or some of the past legends like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or Di Stefano. He was an awesome player who arguably had potential to be the next Pele, but a lot of the modern judgement is 'what could have been if he didn't get injured', 'his youtube highlights look awesome' and 'he was my first footballing hero', all three arguments that I cannot take seriously. At best, he would be somewhere in top 15-20 of all time IMO, while Leo is first or second, and Cristiano is a top 5-6 player for me, probably even a top 3.

Honestly, Luis Ronaldo is closer to Henry than to Cristiano/Messi.

Well said

 

[Moby]

The surest sign of a footballing idiot is someone who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi.

Pretty much showcased there why Messi fans are the absolute worst. Right next to the mes que un club cules.

 

[VP]

Pretty much showcased there why Messi fans are the absolute worst. Right next to the mes que un club cules.

I'm a United fan - I don't care about non-United players. I do watch lot of football though. And since I watch football, I know that Messi is better.

There are plenty of coherent arguments to be made but, like debating with a Trump voter or a flat-earther, it'd be a futile discussion. Cal, for instance, has based his whole online persona on this one argument - there's nothing Messi can ever do that will undo all that investment.

 

[Cal?]

I'm a United fan - I don't care about non-United players. I do watch lot of football though. And since I watch football, I know that Messi is better.

There are plenty of coherent arguments to be made but, like debating with a Trump voter or a flat-earther, it'd be a futile discussion. Cal, for instance, has based his whole online persona on this one argument - there's nothing Messi can ever do that will undo all that investment.

So you just know, how Trumpian of you.

 

[Moby]

And since I watch football, I know that Messi is better.

 

[VP]

So you just know, how Trumpian of you.

I know because I see Messi do things with a football consistently that Ronaldo or, anyone else in world football, simply cannot. I'm not even dismissing Ronaldo's greatness - he's probably in the top five best players ever to kick a ball - but he's just not as good as Messi.

Anyway, here's a question for you: in what world will you concede that Messi is better? What will it take? A hat-trick in the WC final?

 

[Hawks2008]

I can't imagine being a grown ass man and being so devoted to either of these players as some posters I've seen. They don't even play for us ffs.

 

[Cal?]

I know because I see Messi do things with a football consistently that Ronaldo or, anyone else in world football, simply cannot. I'm not even dismissing Ronaldo's greatness - he's probably in the top five best players ever to kick a ball - but he's just not as good as Messi.

Anyway, here's a question for you: in what world will you concede that Messi is better? What will it take? A hat-trick in the WC final?

In the end, it's about results, I think that Ronaldo makes the difference in the bigger games more often than Messi, it's not about what one can do with a football, otherwise those freestyle footballers will be amongst the best players in the world.

In what world will you ever concede Ronaldo is better?

 

[wr8_utd]

I can't imagine being a grown ass man and being so devoted to either of these players as some posters I've seen. They don't even play for us ffs.

Well it feels like a lot of our fanbase started supporting Madrid only because Ronaldo moved there.

 

[wr8_utd]

In the end, it's about results, I think that Ronaldo makes the difference in the bigger games more often than Messi, it's not about what one can do with a football, otherwise those freestyle footballers will be amongst the best players in the world.

In what world will you ever concede Ronaldo is better?

There genuinely aren't many worlds in which neutrals will concede Ronaldo or just about anyone of the current generation is better than Messi.

 

[Daysleeper]

I think Ronaldo to be the better finisher only because he can do it with both feet, left and right. Messi is a sublime finisher on his left but his right is not on the same level as Ronaldo's weaker foot. Other than that, Messi is indeed quite clinical.

BS, look up the stats Messi actually finishes with his weak foot just as good as Ronaldo does.

Just saying

 

[Daysleeper]

In the end, it's about results, I think that Ronaldo makes the difference in the bigger games more often than Messi, it's not about what one can do with a football, otherwise those freestyle footballers will be amongst the best players in the world.

In what world will you ever concede Ronaldo is better?

He’s been awful in more finals than Messi, he was atrocious in 2 of the 3 CL finals, and Portugal didn’t even need him in the euro final. Messi on average is much better in CL finals than Ronaldo.

 

[It's B Rubble]

Which one has brought more glory to the teams they've been on? Messi has won more trophies, albeit with the same team; Ronaldo has won those same trophies, including their equivalents in England, and a major international trophy. I prefer Ronaldo bc he played the greatest 1v1 footy I had ever seen in the Prem. I have not seen one person come close to replicating that awe (maybe Hazard or Obertan).

 

[Daysleeper]

Which one has brought more glory to the teams they've been on? Messi has won more trophies, albeit with the same team; Ronaldo has won those same trophies, including their equivalents in England, and a major international trophy. I prefer Ronaldo bc he played the greatest 1v1 footy I had ever seen in the Prem. I have not seen one person come close to replicating that awe (maybe Hazard or Obertan).

Put Messi on that united team and they win just as much. Ronaldo has won far less La Liga trophies. United even won another PL title soon after he left

 

[VP]

In the end, it's about results, I think that Ronaldo makes the difference in the bigger games more often than Messi, it's not about what one can do with a football, otherwise those freestyle footballers will be amongst the best players in the world.

In what world will you ever concede Ronaldo is better?

In the world where Ronaldo becomes a better passer and dribbler and a more valuable player to have in a team (like in 2008 maybe) than Messi then he'd be a better player.

 

[Hawks2008]

Well it feels like a lot of our fanbase started supporting Madrid only because Ronaldo moved there.

That's when I started disliking Madrid tbh.

 

[RedStrudel76]

Barca and Real have been so dominant...I think that a lot of that has to do with Messi and Ronaldo playing for those two teams.

Let's not forget that Luis Ronaldo actually played during his European career for PSV, Barcelona, Inter, Real Madrid (who had just won UCL) and Milano. He won a single league title, and never came close to winning UCL. His team was always a top 2 team in the country (you can argue that Inter was a top 3 instead). He was overscored in league by the likes of Oliver Bierhoff from all players, usually Leo and Ronaldo get outscored only from each other (with exceptions) but Luis was outscored consistently from not that awesome players.

I just think that his lack of trophies, his career plagued by injuries and his number of goals for a central striker don't even put an argument about Luis Ronaldo vs Cristiano, Messi or some of the past legends like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or Di Stefano. He was an awesome player who arguably had potential to be the next Pele, but a lot of the modern judgement is 'what could have been if he didn't get injured', 'his youtube highlights look awesome' and 'he was my first footballing hero', all three arguments that I cannot take seriously. At best, he would be somewhere in top 15-20 of all time IMO, while Leo is first or second, and Cristiano is a top 5-6 player for me, probably even a top 3.

Honestly, Luis Ronaldo is closer to Henry than to Cristiano/Messi.

I think so too, I mean if you put a prime Ruud van Nistelrooy in these teams I think he might even score more goals. Nobody can tell me that Cristiano friggin Ronaldo was/is a cooler finisher than Ruud or even Ole Gunnar. He has missed loads of chances the last few years and takes about 20/30 shots everygame to just score 1 goal. His shots-to-conversion rate is one of the black marks against him being in the top 5 of all-time.

Cristiano Ronaldo's goals per shots is probably the worst out of any top player for years. He takes so many "potshots" and his long-range goals have dried up since 2009.

At Real Madrid he is indulged, his ego is massaged and the other players have to "serve him"... how would he manage in a controlled situation where he isn't indulged to have 20/30 shots per game and has to compete for a starting spot on the roster!? he'd still do well, but I'd question how well. And how many other top players past/present would thrive in such conditions.

At United he was a great player but only had 1 superhuman season but that only got him 42 goals.. nothing like the numbers he and Messi is recording today.

Even Messi at Barca isn't taking 20/30 shots by game, so isn't comparable before anyone mentions Messi does the same (if he was how many more goals would he have scored is the question I'd ask?)

So these things do go against Ronaldo when his career ends, and his tantrums/off-field antics make him dislikable for many you can't look past. He might squeeze into the top 10 players of all time when his career ends, but I don't think many will look back on his career fondly and be defending him with the same vigour as other Legends as he isn't as respected by the true hardcore football community (who value things more like dribbling on a six-pence and passing/vision ability) who debate these discussions on forums such as Bigsoccer etc.

 

[Cal?]

In the world where Ronaldo becomes a better passer and dribbler and a more valuable player to have in a team (like in 2008 maybe) than Messi then he'd be a better player.

There we go with the Messi brigade, dribbling is the be all and end all again.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Messi clearly has more talent (I'm a CR7 fan since 04') - Cris has a better mentality, a born winner. The fact that they are put on the same pedestal is a salute to CR7's mentality - losing 4 Ballon D'ors to your closest rival after winning the first at 23 is difficult as feck and can bring down anyone - not him, though. Being a part of a national set-up where international recognition is hard to achieve - no problem, he did that too. It's hard to belittle what he has achieved - his records speaks for itself. In life, mentality trumps talent.

 

[Cal?]

He’s been awful in more finals than Messi, he was atrocious in 2 of the 3 CL finals, and Portugal didn’t even need him in the euro final. Messi on average is much better in CL finals than Ronaldo.

How was he awful in those CL finals?

Messi on the other hand, WAS awful in all those finals with Argentina.

 

[KirkDuyt]

“I always loyalty cr7”

Is it broken English on purpose? I cant get over it, are you sure you’re not a bot send to the caf by Jorge Mendez to defend his pupil?