Oh cmon. You won the 98 UCL with a goal from offside - Pedja and the Ramos offside goal also in the Final.
edit: Oh right sorry thought u were a Madrid fan for a second
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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edit: Oh right sorry thought u were a Madrid fan for a second
Yet the football world voted Ronaldo the better player in 2017.
If you look at their average stats for each season in UCL and La Liga the only time Ronaldo beats him is this season and the season hans't finished yet
If the golden ball went to the best player Ronaldo would have only 1 in his career
Bayern vs Real Madrid semi final last season seems to be a pretty close call to that if i'm honest
Real have also won 2 CL title's thanks to offside goals
There are millions of games where one or two decisions were wrong, the Scandal of Stamford Bridge has upto 6 penalties call not given.
What are you talking about? Ronaldo has a much much better scoring record in the UCL.
You have your opinion, I just choose to laugh at it.
It was QF, and Bayern was given a phantom penalty in the 1st leg.
It's not my opinion it's the stats from sofascore.com if you chose to ignore them then that says a lot about youWhat are you talking about? Ronaldo has a much much better scoring record in the UCL.
You have your opinion, I just choose to laugh at it.
Ronaldo 17/18 8.38 16/17 7.85 15/16 8.12
Messi 17/18 7.82 16/17 8.23 15/16 8.17
Messi dominates him in La Liga as well he puts up similar goals to Ronaldo while playing 20-30 yards deeper than him no comparison
Ronaldo's best time seems to be over.
Messi is back to his old form now.
Messi is back to his old form now.
Surprised this argument is still going. Messi has and always will be the better player. Absolute joy to watch.. Yes Ronaldo has had a remarkable career and scored a lot of goals, but Messi is on a different level. His vision, dribbling, touch, technique. He is the greatest ever
I also think Ronaldo is massively on the decline. The air shot today was horrendous to watch. Not only that, now that the goals are drying up he offers nothing else.
I also think Ronaldo is massively on the decline. The air shot today was horrendous to watch. Not only that, now that the goals are drying up he offers nothing else.
Yet the football world voted Ronaldo the better player in 2017.
No, of the top players in the world Ronaldo was the one who had the best season.
This applies to almost every recipient of the Ballon D'or.
Good post Arruda.
except it's not, though. Ronaldo literally needs Real Madrid trebble seasons for this thread to remain active and even then, there is no debate on their individual quality, only about which team has won more trophies that year. Ronaldo can certainly have a more succesful season than Messi and no one is going to dispute that, but he is and he'll always be an inferior player to him. that's why they are few 'pure football' discussions on this topic; it's just so obvious that Messi is simply better and more talented player. no shame in that.
Another point about the Messi brigade is that they seem to be only capable of making their points by making ludicrous points. As above, Cristiano Ronaldo worse than Luiz Ronaldo?
I've not seen any "Ronaldo fan" say Messi is worse than Kaka or comments like that.
Saying R9 is better than Ronaldo isn't "ludicrous".
Saying Kaka is better than Messi is.
Messi's 2017 stats
Balon D'or does not represent the best player
Most Goals in 2017: Messi Most Assists in 2017: Messi Most chances created in 2017: Messi Most successful dribbles in 2017: Messi Most through balls in 2017: Messi Most key passes in 2017: Messi Most man of the match in 2017: Messi
Balon D'or does not represent the best player
Most Goals in 2017: Messi Most Assists in 2017: Messi Most chances created in 2017: Messi Most successful dribbles in 2017: Messi Most through balls in 2017: Messi Most key passes in 2017: Messi Most man of the match in 2017: Messi
Thing about Messi is he's not only a finisher, he can be the creator as well just by slipping into the midfield if he's not getting service and automatically becomes the best midfielder on the planet. He can have a major impact on the game in so many ways and in different positions.
The difference is clear by just watching them both play when neither score. That is what separates them. Messi is the better footballer.
Ronaldo is on the decline, he is paying for never getting rested and always wanting to play every-game.. and he will play everygame at the World Cup too. He refuses to retire with Portugal to focus on Real Madrid, he is delusional if he thinks he can play for Real Madrid AND Portugal until he's 40. He has to make decisions about his career sooner or later.
Ronaldo is on the decline, he is paying for never getting rested and always wanting to play every-game.. and he will play everygame at the World Cup too. He refuses to retire with Portugal to focus on Real Madrid, he is delusional if he thinks he can play for Real Madrid AND Portugal until he's 40. He has to make decisions about his career sooner or later.
Drop 96-98 Ronaldo into the barca/madrid sides Messi and Cris played for and he'd have scored 120 goals a season. Don't even joke, Ronaldo was from another galaxy
Put him alongside Messi and 100 goals might actually be realistic. Suarez scored 60 a couple of seasons ago and he's about 4x as wasteful.
Clutching at straws much?
1) Messi shouldn't even have been in the final
2) The ref did more than any Barca player when he sent off Pepe for not touching whoever
3) 3 goals against Bayern and Atletico surely ranks higher than 4 against Arsenal.
4) Do you seriously want to go into CL knockout stage goals?
5) You do realize Ronaldo scored 5 in the QF against Bayern just a few months ago?
1) He WAS in that final, it's a FACT. You has no room arguing what should or shouldn't have happened, it's history. How he came to be in the final doesn't matter in the context of the final itself, which is, he showed up and Ronaldo did not
2) Again pointing the finger at the ref ? The ref didn't score that brilliant goal running past the madrid players at full speed with the ball glued to his feet dribbling in short spaces.
3)I didn't said Ronaldo didn't had his great goalscoring performances, but that day against Arsenal, not just the four goals but Messi's performance overall was on another level
4)Ronaldo NEVER scored 5 goals in the same game in a champions league match. That's a fact, there's nothing you can say to challenge it. I talked about a specific game where Messi did it, not about their overall record in the knockout rounds, here you try to change what I said.
5)Once again, Ronaldo NEVER scored 5 goals in the same game. What you mention there was done over the course of two legs.
No, replace messi with him and he scores 80 goals a season, and this time it's not hyperbole
Finally someone who appreciates how good Luiz Ronaldo was
The most frightening striker to come up against as a defender
When you have the likes of Maldini and Nesta saying he’s the best striker they’ve come up againest I think it hardly matters what Cal? thinks.
The guy is obsessed with CR9 I think he’d rather see him win the ballon d’or than Utd win the league.
As good as Ronaldo was (and he was sublime, god knows how he would've ended up if not for the injuries), his 96/97 and 97/98 seasons in Spain and Italy, while obviously great goalscoring wise, were not something that hasn't happened before. His 25 league goals in Inter were probably slightly above average for Capocannoniere from say 1993-2003, while Romario, Hugo Sanchez, and Vieri have had seasons with either slightly worse or better goalscoring ratios in Spain. If he was that good a scorer himself, you'd have expected him to be a clear cut above everyone else eider side of him, and that's just not the case.
I'd agree he'd have scored a boatload of goals, but that goes for every prime world class striker in the last 20 years or so. Shearer had a run of three 30+ league seasons, and that was done while he was being supplied by Wilcox, Ripley, Sherwood and Batty. Put peak Shearer in today's Real Madrid and make him a focal point as they already do with Ronaldo, let him take PKs and FKs and i have very little doubt he'd consistently hit 55+, maybe even 60. 80 goals is another matter though, there would have to be a perfect storm for that.
I'd agree he'd have scored a boatload of goals, but that goes for every prime world class striker in the last 20 years or so. Shearer had a run of three 30+ league seasons, and that was done while he was being supplied by Wilcox, Ripley, Sherwood and Batty. Put peak Shearer in today's Real Madrid and make him a focal point as they already do with Ronaldo, let him take PKs and FKs and i have very little doubt he'd consistently hit 55+, maybe even 60. 80 goals is another matter though, there would have to be a perfect storm for that.
Is it arguable that Shearer is in top 3 strikers of all time ? All time top scorer in the premier league, but did it for Southampton, Blackburn and Newcastle... you wonder what he would've done in a top side. I get such a joy of watching Harry Kane nowadays because he reminds me so much of Shearer, I am truly, truly curious to see how Kane will end up compared to him. Shearer was very good for England too...
In my top three certainly, but I've been watching the game for only 20 odd years or so, which means i have obviously missed Van Basten, Puškaš, Gerd Muller just off the top of my head and god knows how many more. Thing is, i even don't exactly remember how truly peak Shearer looked like, i was 9-12 years old at the time he played for Blackburn. I caught him at Newcastle, and even though everyone agreed he was never the same after that ankle break in '97 (?) he was still an absolute handful. Certainly one of the players whose retroactive reputations would be much higher had they played for a truly top club in their prime years.
I missed them all too, I was just 10-11 years old when Shearer retired, but based on Youtube... he was insanely clinical,cold as hell in front of goal. The fact he got that premier league record says almost everything... it's amazing that Rooney actually played for a top side for 13 years and still hasn't come close to it.
I feel he would have gone past 300 goals without breaking a sweat had it not been for that injury, and unfortunately, then it wasn't that rare for a player to suffer long term effects stemming from major injuries. Del Piero for example did his ankle somewhere around that time, and you could argue that he played his best football before the age of 22 even though he still enjoyed a long and illustrious career. Thank heavens medicine has improved to such an extent during that period.
Actually, now that i think of it, Kane is a quite apt comparison. Imagine a shorter, brutally strong player who dominated in the air, had an absolute cannon of a right foot (and a left that wasn't that far off), great off the ball movement and a pretty serviceable if not flashy technique. I don't remember him being particularly pacey, but considering he started as a winger i guess that Blackburn pre-injury version might have an argument with that.
It would be good if someone who watched him regularly would chime in with an opinion.
Yeah, the improvement of medicine cannot be underestimated. I remember when C.Ronaldo had alot of problems with his knee in early 2014 and made them worse at the world cup, but somehow came back and had his best goalscoring season ever in 14-15. Also that injury at the euro final... maybe in the past it would not be possible to come back from it at a high level. Players like Torres and Owen losing it after injuries even in the last decade are prime examples. That takes me to thinking about how hard tackles players like Pele, Garrincha and George Best had to deal with, when there were much less cameras and the referees were poorer... some say that Maradona used to suffer criminal agression too... really amazing what they could do even in these times. Kane is quite tall, if Shearer was taller he would definitely have scored more I guess. What makes Kane so great is that his technique actually isn't even that good but he hits the ball with so much efficiency and with the exact amount of force needed to go past the keeper that it's almost mechanic, Shearer was the master of it. Shearer actually won the title with Blackburn, if Kane manages one with Tottenham and achieve european sucess too, he actually could challenge Messi and C.Ronaldo in numbers one day. Even though people always mention Neymar, Hazard among others as likely heirs to the duopoly, I find Kane to be the most consistent of everyone.
Ratings are not stats, if any website serious think that Messi was better than Ronaldo in the CL 16/17, they should just fold it in.
Even if that's true, what good is being the so called better player if you have lesser seasons half the time?
And again, it's a matter of opinion, Luiz Ronaldo has 1 season in his career where he maybe close to any of Cristiano Ronaldo's seasons in the last decade.
1) Really? Messi fans talking about not showing up in the final? What about the numerous finals Messi bottled with Argentina?
2) The ref helped him do that when he sent off a Madrid player for no reason.
3) Ask anyone in their right mind and people will agree that any of Ronaldo's games from the QF onwards last season beats that Arsenal game, and the whole world knows that Arsenal will lose to the first team they face in the knockout stage anyway.
4-5) Andy Cole once scored 5 goals in one PL game, Henry never did, does Andy Cole rank about Henry in PL legacy?
Yet he didn't even finish as topscorer in the Serie A that season with Inter, finishing behind Bierhoff who played for Udinese. Did Bierhoff have better team mates?
Has Maldini even faced Cristiano? It's natural for players to talk about players from their generation.
As for United, I've said many times, I'm a United fan more than a football fan.
Well said, for his supposed brilliance, Luiz Ronaldo was topscorer in his own league twice over 13 seasons playing for Barca, Inter, Real and Milan.
Great post. I agree with this, especially the highlighted part. The things Ronaldo is good at do not usually make an all time great contender. Most of those are usually players with a certain aesthetic flair, players who have that lightness of touch and movement in the mould of Maradona, Cruyff and Zidane. Even someone like Iniesta has a closer profile to those players than Ronaldo. I have to specify here that I am talking about Ronaldo post 2012. The way he has been playing since then is closer to someone like Batistuta; players who get a lot of cult worship but never really part of the all time greats lists. Obviously Ronaldo's stats trumps all players of a similar or closer profile which helps with his status but still, the fact that he is forcing people to consider him part of such discussion playing in the style he does is quite the achievement.
Talking about what player of yesteryear would do what in the recent Barca/Real sides...
How many goals and assists would Henry accumulate?
How many goals would Ruud score?
How many goals would Batistuta score?
Brian McBride might get 30 goals in those sides.
How many goals and assists would Henry accumulate?
How many goals would Ruud score?
How many goals would Batistuta score?
Brian McBride might get 30 goals in those sides.
He's the greatest dribbler in history, I feel.
Yes. So did Nesta, who also played against Messi.
records and longetivity aside , please think how come CRonaldo is better than R9 ?
maybe only his heading and jumping ability and maybe longshot. The other attributes ?
are you still gonna say that CRonaldo is a better dribbler, better passer, stronger , faster , and smarter than R9 ?
maybe only his heading and jumping ability and maybe longshot. The other attributes ?
are you still gonna say that CRonaldo is a better dribbler, better passer, stronger , faster , and smarter than R9 ?
Well, many will go with that and considering his effectiveness they wouldn't be wrong. I just like to also make room for my personal favourites who combine elegance (Cruyff) and insane natural power combined with skill (Luis Nazario). And then you have Diego, of course.
But, yes, to say Messi is the greatest dribbler in history, wouldn't be out of place at all.
Messi is a genius and a joy to watch. His touch technique and dribbling are from a different planet, amazing player.
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