I clearly stated that it's all about preference and not who is better; in a neutral's eye, they are the same level whether you believe, like it or not, but I prefer Ronaldo which makes him a better player than messi in my opinion
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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I have to disagree. I think most neutrals would say Messi is better. Ronaldo is a brilliant goalscorer but he isn't as good a player as Messi is.
Comparing Messi & Ronaldo is like comparing Maradona & Gerd Muller, IMHO.
Hahaha! Messi played with the best squad ever! World cup winners and back to back Euro winners.
I get where you're coming from, they are both so ridiculously effective, so it is kinda a preference thing.
At the end Maradona is the GOAT
At this stage, I think that's just pure nostalgia.
Personally I would say Ronaldo has got MORE to his game than Messi, better free kicks, better in the air, quicker. Messi has that magic of dribbling with the ball though. I agree it is unfair to compare, we should just appreciate having two of the world best ever players at the same time, very rare.
Stats wise you could almost call them the two best of all time considering the goald and level they have both performed at year in and year out for over a decade for there clubs. Personally for me though the two three best players I have ever seen would probably be Maradona and Brazilian Ronaldo.
Maybe unfair to name Maradona as in his age we didnt have satellite tv and his time in Napoli was just before Channel 4 screened Italian football so only really saw him every four years at the world cups, but he just carried his team in every single one. Messi is fantastic but the little I got to see of him, Maradona was definately better for me.
Brazilian Ronaldo. A great player through out his career but a shame all of the injuries he suffered from getting kicked pillar to post. But the Ronaldo of PSV, Barcelona and especially Inter was probably the most talented player I have ever seen. Week in week out he was destroying the likes of Nesta, Canavaro, Ayala. None of the worlds top defenders could get anywhere near him.
What sets them apart from Ronaldo and Messi for me is how they performed in the world cups every single time as well, not just there clubs.
An honourable mention has to go to Maldini as well. In an Italian league awash with money and the best attacking talents during most of his career, it is amazing to think I hardly ever saw a player go past him. And he was great going forwards too....best elft back in my lifetime by an absolute country mile
Ronaldo always. Messi is Barcelona . Will not be the same without Barcelona.
He is in no way a better free kick taker than Messi. He is terrible at free kicks.
He's terrible at them but has scored a lot more of them than Messi...
Right now, he's simply ok at them and there are plenty better but he used to be fantastic at it
Do you have a source for this? I remember Messi scoring quite a lot of FKs for club and country in recent years.
He's taken more than Messi too. No matter which side of the debate you're on it's quite clear you'd rather have Messi over a free kick than Ronaldo.
Type on youtube 'all ronaldo free kick goals' and 'all messi free kick goals'. Messi is definitely better at them now but he improved on it while Ronaldo got worse at them. I think I read a while back Messi has slightly the better percentage of the two (7% vs 6% or something like that) but Ronaldo also takes them from further out and from harder angles. I'd say career wise they're pretty equal
The thing is that Ronaldo shoots with power which means it won't go through the wall as often but when it goes through it's tougher for the keeper, while Messi will get closer to scoring more often.
Is it even a contest anymore? Could be argued Messi is in a decline compared to Ronaldos continued evolution
Fair.
I think a lot of people underestimate the effect of Messi's supporting cast in this debate. If Ronaldo had consistently had the same level of support (at Real and United), he'd likely have one more CL, and 2 more league titles and Messi would have the same fewer in his tally. He'd probably have 30-40 more goals as well.
We all know that Modric and Kroos can't even tie Iniesta and Xavi's shoes.
We also know that Casillas, Ramos, Alonso, Arbeloa, Ozil, Kroos or Khedira, all of them champions between 2010 and 2014 never played a single minute with Ronaldo at Real Madrid, poor fella
Messi's casualness is something worth criticizing. Ronaldo does seem to want it more these past years.
Have to agree with this. Messi has shown he can still do it in the El Classico this season, for example, but generally doesn't look too arsed.
Nowadays you can say Messi is better at freekicks but for a long time Ronaldo was the better one, specially in his Manchester days and for like the first 3 or 4 seasons with Madrid Ronaldo was better. So if we take all his careers, and not just the present, Ronaldo has scored more and you could say they're even or that Ronaldo is slightly ahead.
I think both reached the heights they reached thanks to one another. I personally think Messi is better, the talent is clearly superior to Cristiano, but what I love about Cristiano is his work ethic and his competitive drive. I don't think Messi needed Cristiano to reach the heights he did, he was going to do that no matter what, but I think Cristiano thrived to have someone to chase. He reminds me of a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant type. Someone who's first in the gym and last one out among professionals. Cristiano Ronaldo is an important player in the history of football now, and even more so because he played in the same era as an all-time talent in Messi. He's someone you can point out and explain how hard work is everything.
I'm so grateful to have been able and to continue to be able to enjoy them both. They are two very different footballers and persons but they have made a similar mark that will never be erased.
I'm so grateful to have been able and to continue to be able to enjoy them both. They are two very different footballers and persons but they have made a similar mark that will never be erased.
I would personaly say that they're even. I think that's fair.
Agreed. There are periods in games when Messi seems to switch off. Without the ball Cristiano seems to be always in constant motion while there are games where Messi just strolls around. It could be a tactical decision so he's fresh to dribble past players and decide better when he gets the ball though
How many titles they have won doesn't really say all that much about how good they are individually. I wouldn't think that Messi would be a better player than he is right now if Argentina would have won a couple of penalty shootouts in Copa America the last couple of years and Romero would have dribbled past 11 German's and scored in the WC overtime in 2014. Messi would have won 3 big trophies more than he currently has but it wouldn't make him a better player.
I think you make good points. However it's a common theme these days to say that Ronaldo is a workhorse who made the most of his limited talent with insane hardwork levels.
I don't really agree with that notion. Ronaldo is insanely talented too.
I always thought Ronaldo left us 2 seasons too soon. He left the side challenging Barca for the 1 spot to Madrid who needed a few signings to compete
He could have had a few extra titles and a CL if he waited until 2012 odd
He could have had a few extra titles and a CL if he waited until 2012 odd
Agree, Ronaldo is insanely talented just like Messi worked his ass off to reach the heights he reached. To think otherwise is just stupid, you dont reach GOAT levels without both.
Yep, sometimes Messi's talent is bigger than his will. With Ronaldo, the will is two times bigger than the talent.
Messi's lack of will at times is his Achille's heel.
Never said Ronaldo had bad teammates! I'm in no way diminishing Messi's accomplishments. Just find the original post hilarious and hypocritical.
That's right. For some reason it's become commonplace to knock down Ronaldo's talent.
I think at this point it's all about personal preference. They're both insanely talented but I just prefer Ronaldo's style and flair over Messi's. I'll always have a soft spot for Ronaldo as well because of the fact that this madness started at United. I remember one of his first interviews where he was wearing that hideous sweater and Neville couldn't stop laughing at him. He's come a long way and United will always be part of his journey and that's why I'll always choose him over Messi.
Well, it's not fair for Messi if we compare the net amount of FK goals between them, since Messi didn't have that role until 2009 (Ronaldinho, Deco, Marquez and Riquelme were ahead of him as FK taker in both Barcelona and Argentina)
But its also unfair for Ronaldo that Messi had those same guys as masters and a certain Diego Armando as coaches for his free kicks
En sus inicios en la primera plantilla del Barça se quedaba al final de los entrenamientos para ver el ensayo en el golpeo de Ronaldinho, Deco (sus dos mentores en sus inicios) e incluso Rafa Márquez. Con el tiempo se fue animando a practicarlas con ellos. Incluso con Deco realizaba un entrenamiento singular. Los dos golpeaban descalzos el balón de lado a lado para ganar potencia luego en el lanzamiento de faltas.
"When he got to the main squad, Leo waited until the end of trainings to watch Ronaldinho, Deco and Marquez practicing. Then he started shooting with them, he also started practicing barefoot with Deco shooting the ball side to side to gain power"
Mascherano, Tevez y Messi le pidieron si podían quedarse haciendo tiros al arco, a lo que Maradona accedió. En un momento, Lionel puso la pelota mirando hacia el arco, un poco sobre la izquierda y cuando le pegó, su remate se fue lejos, por arriba del ángulo de la mano derecha de Carrizo. Hizo un gesto de fastidio y, como enfiló para el vestuario, le salí al cruce: 'Decime una cosa, ¿un jugador como vos se va a ir a duchar con esa porquería? Dejate de hinchar las bolas. Agarrá una pelota y volvé a intentar'
Termino de pronunciar eso y veo que viene Diego, que había escuchado todo, como siempre. Lo tomó del hombro y le dijo: 'Leíto, Leíto, vení, papá. Vamos a hacerlo de vuelta'. Era como un profesor con un alumno. Y siguió; 'Poné la pelota acá y escuchame bien: no le saques tan rápido el pie a la pelota porque si no ella no sabe lo que vos querés'. Entonces, la acarició con la zurda y la clavó en el ángulo, inflando la red ante la mirada de admiración de Messi. Para los que hablan de los celos de Diego, ¿qué celos? Le estaba abriendo el mundo del conocimiento y no le cobró nada. Yo pegué media vuelta y no quise ver más, ya era suficiente. Allí estaba el fútbol argentino.
"Mascherano, Tevez and Messi asked to stay practicing free kicks and Maradona said OK. Then, Leo set the ball looking to the goal facing its left side and when he shot, his strike went far above the right angle of Carrizo's goal. He frowned and started walking towards the locker room. I (the physio) cut him and said "Hey Leo, a player like you is going to take a shower after that shit? stop breaking my balls. Take a ball and try again"
"I finished saying that and Diego comes to us after hearing it, as always, he took Leo from the shoulder and said to him "Leito (little Leo), Leito, come with daddy and let's give it another try". Like a teacher and his student, he then said "put the ball here and listen to me, don't take your feet away from the ball so soon because then she can't understand where you want her to go". Diego gently caressed the ball with his left foot and put it in the angle, with Messi looking astonished at the net. Some people talk about Diego being jealous, jealous? He opened the door of wisdom without charging anything for it. I turned around and didn't want to look anymore, it was enough. That was Argentina's football history
Messi is brilliant but 3 CL's and a Euro's in 4 years is hard to argue against Ronaldo being the best.
600 goals Jesus fecking Christ. We won't realise until both retire how lucky we are to see such players on a weekly basis, the greatest 2 players in history for me.
600 goals Jesus fecking Christ. We won't realise until both retire how lucky we are to see such players on a weekly basis, the greatest 2 players in history for me.
Well, it's not fair for Messi if we compare the net amount of FK goals between them, since Messi didn't have that role until 2009 (Ronaldinho, Deco, Marquez and Riquelme were ahead of him as FK taker in both Barcelona and Argentina)
But its also unfair for Ronaldo that Messi had those same guys as masters and a certain Diego Armando as coaches for his free kicks
En sus inicios en la primera plantilla del Barça se quedaba al final de los entrenamientos para ver el ensayo en el golpeo de Ronaldinho, Deco (sus dos mentores en sus inicios) e incluso Rafa Márquez. Con el tiempo se fue animando a practicarlas con ellos. Incluso con Deco realizaba un entrenamiento singular. Los dos golpeaban descalzos el balón de lado a lado para ganar potencia luego en el lanzamiento de faltas.
"When he got to the main squad, Leo waited until the end of trainings to watch Ronaldinho, Deco and Marquez practicing. Then he started shooting with them, he also started practicing barefoot with Deco shooting the ball side to side to gain power"
Mascherano, Tevez y Messi le pidieron si podían quedarse haciendo tiros al arco, a lo que Maradona accedió. En un momento, Lionel puso la pelota mirando hacia el arco, un poco sobre la izquierda y cuando le pegó, su remate se fue lejos, por arriba del ángulo de la mano derecha de Carrizo. Hizo un gesto de fastidio y, como enfiló para el vestuario, le salí al cruce: 'Decime una cosa, ¿un jugador como vos se va a ir a duchar con esa porquería? Dejate de hinchar las bolas. Agarrá una pelota y volvé a intentar'
Termino de pronunciar eso y veo que viene Diego, que había escuchado todo, como siempre. Lo tomó del hombro y le dijo: 'Leíto, Leíto, vení, papá. Vamos a hacerlo de vuelta'. Era como un profesor con un alumno. Y siguió; 'Poné la pelota acá y escuchame bien: no le saques tan rápido el pie a la pelota porque si no ella no sabe lo que vos querés'. Entonces, la acarició con la zurda y la clavó en el ángulo, inflando la red ante la mirada de admiración de Messi. Para los que hablan de los celos de Diego, ¿qué celos? Le estaba abriendo el mundo del conocimiento y no le cobró nada. Yo pegué media vuelta y no quise ver más, ya era suficiente. Allí estaba el fútbol argentino.
"Mascherano, Tevez and Messi asked to stay practicing free kicks and Maradona said OK. Then, Leo set the ball looking to the goal facing its left side and when he shot, his strike went far above the right angle of Carrizo's goal. He frowned and started walking towards the locker room. I (the physio) cut him and said "Hey Leo, a player like you is going to take a shower after that shit? stop breaking my balls. Take a ball and try again"
"I finished saying that and Diego comes to us after hearing it, as always, he took Leo from the shoulder and said to him "Leito (little Leo), Leito, come with daddy and let's give it another try". Like a teacher and his student, he then said "put the ball here and listen to me, don't take your feet away from the ball so soon because then she can't understand where you want her to go". Diego gently caressed the ball with his left foot and put it in the angle, with Messi looking astonished at the net. Some people talk about Diego being jealous, jealous? He opened the door of wisdom without charging anything for it. I turned around and didn't want to look anymore, it was enough. That was Argentina's football history
Oh yeah, I remember that Barcelona had some amazing players at free kicks so no wonder he didn't have a sniff when even a central defender like Márquez was so good at them, let alone someone like Deco or Ronaldinho, at them but he has become very solid now. As for Ronaldo I always liked his technique and power behind those long distance shots but I don't know what happened to him or why he doesn't use the inner part of his foot just like most players do. Maybe it's becaus of the ball aerodynamics, as I recall there was a time when goalkeepers kept moaning about the new adidas balls making some strange moves in the air and maybe they have fixed that.
Maybe I didn't express it very well, but of course Cristiano Ronaldo is insanely talented as well. I was speaking in comparison to Messi's natural talent I think he is lesser but he has made it up with a higher drive and work-rate. That's not to say Messi has ever been lazily depending on his talent, he's not Ronaldinho. That's why I compare Cristiano Ronaldo to Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan, incredible talents but what you remember even more than their talent is their hard work and competitive drive.
I agree. It's the determination and leadership skills where Messi is quite behind Ronaldo and these things should count when considering great players (and not just on the ball ability).
Ronnie any day of the week for me. Messi as mentioned of course is most likely the most naturally gifted of the two but I don't see the leader in him that I do in Ronnie. I think the Michael Jordan /Kobe comparison that was made is apt. Clearly there are arguments for other players to be the GOAT but Ronnie drives the team and makes the current Real Real. I don't feel that's the case with Barça. Barça will continue being Barça with or without Messi, Real will take a hit once a Ronnie goes.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but my personal opinion after watching this team for two decades is that once Messi is gone or stops being the goat, you will see us enter the United/Moyes zone.
It will be probably worse than 2013, after we lost Guardiola and he dragged an awful team that deserved to be out in both round of 16 and quarterfinals, but Messi scored two goals vs Milan to lead the comeback and came in as a sub in the 2nd leg vs PSG without being 100%, giving Pedro the assist that classified us to be destroyed by Bayern that year.
He's dragging our corpse (and Argentina too) for some years in his career, Ronaldo does it but in a different way, he doesn't need to be involved in the play as much, he just needs to score, and he does it like Messi. But since Guardiola departure, Xavi's worst years and now Iniesta's decline he's the only elite creative player (bar Rakitic, who is wasted largely on defensive duties) between our defenders and Neymar/Suarez, first treble Messi had a 24% goal participation of the team, in 2013/14 he was already above 40%.
By the time Messi (29) retires, only Umtiti (23) and Neymar (25) could be stars to build around already in the club. You can win a treble with Messi and 3/4 more elite caliber players as Lucho did in the first year, but I doubt you can do the same with Neymar, he needs to take a huge step forward to fill that role for a whole season.
Once Ronaldo retires, well he's already 32, and Asensio, Varane, James, Casemiro and Isco are still under 25, Kroos and Bale are 27 y/o so they still cover with Ronaldo the age gap between Messi/Neymar. Madrid are set for a better future and, worst case scenario, they will have to splash the money into a great goalscorer, which is what Ronaldo has been doing the last years, with Messi you need to cover the void Ronaldo would leave, and then some more work in the engine room without having players like Marcelo, Isco, James, Modric or Kroos to feed him.
We'll see, but for me Messi is to Barcelona what Ferguson was to United, that's why he's the first "best player in the world" we've enjoyed for more than five years. Cruyff, Maradona, Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo or Ronaldinho, we burned all of them in five years or less and almost all of them started a crisis once they left the club, imagine what will happen once Messi goes.
For the leader part, there's a lot of kinds. Tim Duncan was a "shy" and silent guy, and he was Spurs' leader for almost 20 years. Garnett was all heart, antics and a lot of talking about leadership, but he "sold" his teammated for a chance in Celtics, and then also left the Celtics for Brooklyn. You see them in videos and Garnett strikes you as the best leader, yet Duncan did a better job at leading his team for a better part of his whole career
History books tend to mention trophies and achievements, not talent. That's why 30 years from now Ronaldo will be remembered as the GOAT.
If it was all about talent, A lot of people probably would've considered Best as GOAT by now.
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