He didn't run much vs Iran, very similar to how he played for Barca : little offball movement, no urgency. He actually ran more vs Bosnia although lost the ball many times during the first half. I guess in knockout stage he will be more active than vs Iran.
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
- Start date
. Im just a big WUM really People thought he was saving himself for the WC as well, I think this is just the way he plays now.
Not that it's a terrible change - see the last El Classico. He's obviously good enough to not try as hard and still be brilliant.
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I think he is just out of form
He's been pretty disappointing, which isn't to say that he's played poorly because he hasn't - but it hasn't been the special, all-time greatest form that he's shown previously.
He's still a fantastic footballer, but he's clearly not quite at the level he was two seasons ago - that electric agility and burst off speed seems to have dipped and he isn't the phenomenal dribbler that he was previously. He still had his moments - the goal he scored against Bosnia for example - but he doesn't seem to have the same controlled explosiveness that he had before, where he was genuinely unstoppable when running at defenders.
So yeah - he's still playing well, but it's hardly Pele '70, Cruyff '74 or Maradona '86 standard - which is really what I've been expecting/hoping for these past few years.
He's still a fantastic footballer, but he's clearly not quite at the level he was two seasons ago - that electric agility and burst off speed seems to have dipped and he isn't the phenomenal dribbler that he was previously. He still had his moments - the goal he scored against Bosnia for example - but he doesn't seem to have the same controlled explosiveness that he had before, where he was genuinely unstoppable when running at defenders.
So yeah - he's still playing well, but it's hardly Pele '70, Cruyff '74 or Maradona '86 standard - which is really what I've been expecting/hoping for these past few years.
Even if Argentina win the World Cup now, people are going to complain about his performances and nit pick even if he scores 5 or 6 decisive goals along the way..
He won't ever be on Maradona's or Pele's level for some people no matter what he does.
He won't ever be on Maradona's or Pele's level for some people no matter what he does.
its too bad when you think about it, if the messi of 2012 was at this world cup with this team, i reckon he could go own and dominate/win it all. instead he arrives at brazil slightly slower, slightly more fatigued, and a little past his best.
what i'm just waiting for is his playmaking ability. He's geniunely become one of the best creative playmakers in the world over the last 3 seasons. If anything this is an area where he's improved, and i want to see higuain and aguero giving him the runs so that he can unleash those passes.
what i'm just waiting for is his playmaking ability. He's geniunely become one of the best creative playmakers in the world over the last 3 seasons. If anything this is an area where he's improved, and i want to see higuain and aguero giving him the runs so that he can unleash those passes.
When you look at Messi's injury record it's probably no surprise he's lost a bit of his explosive pace and he has to be more selective when to make runs. Some top players are more lucky than others in that regard.
It is too bad, because at his best he was absolutely as good as all of those players - at least as good.
You hope it won't damage his legacy too much, but it's hard to believe that it won't at least have some impact. When you think of those players - Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Matthaus - more recently Ronaldo and Zidane - so much of that lingering reputation is built on international success.
I really hoped he would tear this tournament up and go down as the greatest ever, but so far it's not turning out like that. He's still been very good, but it's not Messi at his best.
I really don't get comments like this, people were getting so defensive in the match thread as well.
It isn't a criticism of Messi as a player to say that he hasn't been at his best this World Cup - in fact its more of a criticism to pretend that he has, and that this is all he has ever been capable off.
It's also just plain wrong to pretend that he's been as good in these two games as someone like Maradona was in '86 and it downplays the achievements of those players. Messi hasn't been close to that level so far - which again, isn't a criticism of him as a player as he clearly is good enough to play that way when at his peak. It's just unfortunate that he's going through a dip when the World Cup comes around. It would have been fantastic to see a prime Messi tear this World Cup up and I was really looking forward to it happening.
Again an amazing goal from him today. Argentina has 6 points now but non the less they are a team that never fails to disappoint me. They seem like a team that should be able to play some great football but their games have been among the worst at this WC.
It's not Messi at his best, but he's got the decisive goal in the two games he's played. Both have been classic Messi goals from outside the area too. If he keeps that standard up and Argentina reach the Final it'll go down as 'his tournament', the majority of the football watching public won't realise, remember or care that he wasn't at his best.
Higuain was slow and rusty vs Iran, clearly not in form. If he doesn't improve in the next game, I don't think he should start in the rest games.
i rate the club game much higher, so messi's legacy is already cemented for me regardless of what he wins or doesn't with the albacieste
Is he just worried about injury?
He ran less than 8KM today. Rojo in comparison did more than 11KM.
Even when he is walking through the matches, he completed most dribbles in WC2014. He has 14 successful dribbles so far, 2nd is Di Maria with 11.
He ran less than 8KM today. Rojo in comparison did more than 11KM.
Even when he is walking through the matches, he completed most dribbles in WC2014. He has 14 successful dribbles so far, 2nd is Di Maria with 11.
Maradona had a nasty injury ( out for 6 months or so) when he played for Barca but he still had good acceleration in the 1990 WC when he was 30, e.g. the assist against Brazil when he dribbled past three Brazilian players. Then you have Ronaldinho who didn't have serious injury record but somehow his acceleration was pretty much gone before he turned 30.
Watching Messi play in 2014, he seems to still have very good acceleartion, e.g the solo goal vs Getafe this year and the goal vs Bosnia etc, but he definitely doesn't try to dribble as much as before.
Right now its as if he's saving all his energy for the bigger matches in the knockouts and that he's decided in both games he has to do something to bring Argentina through the group so he pops in a wonderful goal in the last few minutes. It sounds silly but it genuinely appears that way.
Hes not playing like he did 2009-2012 and that is a shame. But he is still an effective, incredible player, regardless of the lethargic attitude he has brought to the game lately. Hope he brings back those vintage Messi performances when it matters.
Hes not playing like he did 2009-2012 and that is a shame. But he is still an effective, incredible player, regardless of the lethargic attitude he has brought to the game lately. Hope he brings back those vintage Messi performances when it matters.
Well currently I don't think that this is likely to happen, Argentina have looked very ordinary against non-top sides. But yeah, if he scores the winner in all of the games and Argentina reach the final then it'll go down as his tournament. Again though I don't think it would compete with a Cruyff or Maradona tournament because those performances encompassed much more than scoring goals. Ronaldo scored half the goals in '98 as he did in '02 but it was the former which really caught the imagination. Messi is of course capable of doing the same - more so in fact - which is what we've seen for Barcelona. As you say though, he's scored two great goals and I'm not trying to have a pop at him - just hoped to see him completely tear this World Cup up in a way that he isn't so far.
typical english
the more you run the better you are
ibrahimovic runs probably the less in world football but he is one of the best in the game
it's now or never for him
Its a team game. I hate this when it comes to Messi and Ronaldo. Just read the match threads....its full of 'Messi is poor', 'Ronaldo is poor' etc...Yes I know they are the star players and the top 2 in the game, but in a competition like the world cup you need everybody to pull their weight.
Aguero and Di Maria have been very poor. I think its the system for Argentina because both those players had amazing seasons last year but suddenly they look below par.
Argentina's midfield is also very average. That will lose them games in the next round.
Well not really. He can play in more world cups lol
Whether he wins the world cup or not I will always consider him one of the best ever. At the end of the day it is a team game and if argentina lose its not like it would all be messis fault. A lot of the Spanish players have won every major trophy but none of them are ranked up their with maradona and pele.
Well said
Ronaldo and Messi are for me two of the greatest players ever even if they never win or dominate a world cup. They have done too much at club level to not be up there.
I agree, I hate how whenever their teams lose, Ronaldo and messi get all the blame. But they also benefit from it as whenever their teams win they get most of the credit. A lot of people say Ronaldo got Portugal to the semis of euro 2012 by himself but the defenders played very well and the midfield worked very hard and that allowed him to perform as well as he did. But then again when Portugal lose like they did vs Germany he gets most of the blame even though no portugal player really performed. It is the same with messi. Its black and white thinking and I don't agree with it.
Yup...its good to have posters like you
The flip like you said is when they win messi and ronaldo get all the credit.Watch if argentina get eliminated next round, everybody will blame Messi.
Not sure what you're talking about - There's a separate thread on Argentina, whereas this is the Messi thread specific to him so I'm just talking about his performances.
Messi can play better than this - and he has played better than this. The decline in his ability to run with the ball doesn't have much to do with his team mates. If you think this is the best Messi can produce then I think you underestimate him. Which is ironic because you have been extremely defensive of any criticism of Messi.
Just to make sure things are clear - this hasn't gone on in this thread. No one has 'blamed' Messi and no one has said that Argentina have been poor because of him.
feel this will be his world cup...like 86 was Maradona's.
Obviously nobody has blamed messi because argentina haven't lost yet. But if they do then he will take a lot of the blame the same way Ronaldo does unless he really puts in a great performance in the match.
I'm not sure why either of you brought it up then.
Because it is a fact that it will happen to both messi and Ronaldo if their teams lose and it happens to rooney too. And we disagree with it, but we also know that it is inevitable.
Not been the greatest of performances but two match winning performances with two outstanding goals to boot. I thought that's what most people were asking of him. To turn it on for Argentina and win matches the way he regularly does for Barcelona.
I don't read too much into his overall performances so far because Argentina overall haven't impressed. Guys like Aguero, Di Maria and Higuain have been non-existent and Sabella's left an awful lot to be desired tactically.
I don't read too much into his overall performances so far because Argentina overall haven't impressed. Guys like Aguero, Di Maria and Higuain have been non-existent and Sabella's left an awful lot to be desired tactically.
He played much better in the 2010 World Cup than he has this year, I thought he played really well in 2010 he was just missing goals. This year he has scored goals but has been quite poor. The British media especially Match of the day and Adrian Chiles obsession has been vomit inducing. Benzema, Robben, Sanchez have played better but with less than a quarter of the praise.
Messi is already one of the greatest players, he doesn't need a World Cup to prove that.I think it is utterly ridiculous that a competition that lasts for 8 games and is played every 4 years should be the barometer on which a players greatness or impact is measured, it is absolutely farcical. Just look at Klose he has just broken Ronaldo's record but he is very average at club level. No one would say Klose is a great player. For me Messi has surpassed Maradona, in fact even Cristiano has surpassed him too.
you can't say that about the copa america at all. He was excellent, even outstanding all throughout the tournament, possibly the player of the tournament despite exiting so early against uruguay.
Weird he's being so heavily criticized after what he did today. That's what great players do.
Say what? He had two great games vs costa rica and bolivia. Yepez had him firmly in his back pocket when they played colombia. Against uruguay he ran them ragged in the first half and then proceeded to be as useless for the rest of the 80 mins. How you came to the conclusion that he was the best player of the tournament is beyond me, that was suarez by quite some distance.
He really doesn't need to win a WC to prove anything, eight random games won't really change the fact that he's one of the all time greats. Anyone who changes their minds on how great he is based on one tournament is a bit of a simpleton imo.
Messi's genius for Barca is enough in and of itself. Greatness comes in many forms, why should he have to repeat Maradonna's achievements when he has already achieved enough in his own right?
Messi's genius for Barca is enough in and of itself. Greatness comes in many forms, why should he have to repeat Maradonna's achievements when he has already achieved enough in his own right?
Re people saying Messi's lost a yard, he hasn't. One of his first goals when he returned from injury this year:
He's scored a number like that since then as well.
I think it's all come down to a) a mental issue, Barcelona's handling of his injury was an utter disgrace, and b) shoddy man management. The Barcelona side under Martino didn't help any of the flair players one bit, he'll improve.
He's scored a number like that since then as well.
I think it's all come down to a) a mental issue, Barcelona's handling of his injury was an utter disgrace, and b) shoddy man management. The Barcelona side under Martino didn't help any of the flair players one bit, he'll improve.
Yeah he still looks pretty rapid to me, but I think a lot of people have been pointing to energy levels/stamina. That said, watching Aguero and Di Maria it looks like Sabella's been spiking the whole teams drinks with ketamine.