Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!

It's clear that something is up whether it's fatigue, injuries or something mental.

Also if it's the first or the last one, it won't last too long and he'll be back to usual pretty soon. As for this World Cup, not at his best but still deciding games for Argentina.
 
typical english

the more you run the better you are
ibrahimovic runs probably the less in world football but he is one of the best in the game

You assumed quite a few things, none of them near to truth. His stats clearly show either he isn't properly fit or conserving himself. Spent most of the time 'idling around'.
 
You assumed quite a few things, none of them near to truth. His stats clearly show either he isn't properly fit or conserving himself. Spent most of the time 'idling around'.
Sometimes players move the defenders marking them around simply by walking around. Wander over to one area of the pitch and you can drag your defender out of the space you want to attack. "Idling around" may not in fact be "idling around"
 
Sometimes players move the defenders marking them around simply by walking around. Wander over to one area of the pitch and you can drag your defender out of the space you want to attack. "Idling around" may not in fact be "idling around"

Maybe, but this has been on for sometime now. Maybe something mental after the last injury lapse. Just analyze the activity period.

0000xhjqo.png
 
Maybe, but this has been on for sometime now. Maybe something mental after the last injury lapse. Just analyze the activity period.

0000xhjqo.png
where'd you get that by the way? really useful breakdown.
 
Maybe, but this has been on for sometime now. Maybe something mental after the last injury lapse. Just analyze the activity period.

0000xhjqo.png
I think you are more than likely right but he is such a clever and gifted player that it would be interesting to watch closely in the next game if the "inactivity" (even if standing still) is with for a reason.
 
I think you are more than likely right but he is such a clever and gifted player that it would be interesting to watch closely in the next game if the "inactivity" (even if standing still) is with for a reason.
i don't think there's any doubt, messi has been moving significantly less then he used to, even compared to just a year ago with the nt.

however, lately i've been reflecting and wondering if this is a display of his limited stamina, or a concerted reservation of energy. When you think about it, the world cup can potentially go on for a month for teams, running 3-4 km less each game will add up to a huge advantage in preservation.

We can only see if this is true in whether he ups his game in the important moments.
 
i don't think there's any doubt, messi has been moving significantly less then he used to, even compared to just a year ago with the nt.

however, lately i've been reflecting and wondering if this is a display of his limited stamina, or a concerted reservation of energy. When you think about it, the world cup can potentially go on for a month for teams, running 3-4 km less each game will add up to a huge advantage in preservation.

We can only see if this is true in whether he ups his game in the important moments.

Probably not 3~4KM less each game. More realstically it's something < 2km compared to the average distance attackers cover. I remember he covered something around 8.5km against Bosnia.

I agree with your point though. He doesn't need to play at 100% in the group stage. It's much more important to hit 100% when the knockout games start.
 
Can i start to compare him to Robben?


Robben is the best player in the world :cool:

(said already in 2010, that if he is in topform, he is the 2nd best player in the world. Now Messi has declined a bit so he's the very best now :D)
 
Maybe, but this has been on for sometime now. Maybe something mental after the last injury lapse. Just analyze the activity period.

0000xhjqo.png

Aguero's stats is quite smilar to Mess's : low distance covered, low intensity level ( percentage of activity time spent). In addition to that Higuain was clearly out of form. No wonder their attack was quite static, didn't look threatening enough.

Maybe they can start with a hardworking attacker aka Lavezzi who would press harder, provide more offball movement and exhaust the opponent defenders, then substitute Aguero on later?
 
i don't think there's any doubt, messi has been moving significantly less then he used to, even compared to just a year ago with the nt.

however, lately i've been reflecting and wondering if this is a display of his limited stamina, or a concerted reservation of energy. When you think about it, the world cup can potentially go on for a month for teams, running 3-4 km less each game will add up to a huge advantage in preservation.

We can only see if this is true in whether he ups his game in the important moments.
You can see if its true if you see him ambling along and then heading back towards space at 3/4 to full pace in short bursts. if he is seen to be doing that then he is simply moving his defenders around
 
Can i start to compare him to Robben?


Robben is the best player in the world :cool:

(said already in 2010, that if he is in topform, he is the 2nd best player in the world. Now Messi has declined a bit so he's the very best now :D)
Robben lol:lol:
 
You can see if its true if you see him ambling along and then heading back towards space at 3/4 to full pace in short bursts. if he is seen to be doing that then he is simply moving his defenders around

Yes, when he's ambling around he's still moving defenders around to create space for himself or his team mates. That's obvious. He's always done that. What people are talking about here is why he's covering much less ground than he used to.
 
I can't believe people are actually moaning about his performance despite scoring two vital goals
wow
 
I don't think he walks around that much more than he used to, to be honest. There's definitely been a drop but not as much as people say, you can find videos people have recorded at Barcelona matches of Messi walking around for a few minutes straight. He's always done it, so I don't think it makes sense to criticise him for something nobody even noticed a few years ago.
 
I don't think he walks around that much more than he used to, to be honest. There's definitely been a drop but not as much as people say, you can find videos people have recorded at Barcelona matches of Messi walking around for a few minutes straight. He's always done it, so I don't think it makes sense to criticise him for something nobody even noticed a few years ago.

This Messi is lightyears away from the Messi of 08/09 - it's definitely not true to say he was always like that. After then it did seem like Guardiola and his own personal trainer decided that he should move around less, probably because of the explosiveness of his game and the tendency to injure his hamstrings. He's ran less and less over the years though.
 
I don't think he walks around that much more than he used to, to be honest. There's definitely been a drop but not as much as people say, you can find videos people have recorded at Barcelona matches of Messi walking around for a few minutes straight. He's always done it, so I don't think it makes sense to criticise him for something nobody even noticed a few years ago.
what do people mean by 'walk around'...
basically they want him to be like Tevez and hurry defenders?
 
This Messi is lightyears away from the Messi of 08/09 - it's definitely not true to say he was always like that. After then it did seem like Guardiola and his own personal trainer decided that he should move around less, probably because of the explosiveness of his game and the tendency to injure his hamstrings. He's ran less and less over the years though.
Its crazy that 'despite running less' he is that effective and good.
Maybe it motivation...he has won everything football has to offer. I could imagine it may get a little boring when you have nothing left to prove
 
Messi did what Messi does. He has a habbit of disappearing at times in the game but then out of nowhere he manages to make a huge difference. Argentina are contenders for the WC because of him (no disrespect to the other players) I really believe he is capable of carrying them all the way, he is that good.
 
Messi did what Messi does. He has a habbit of disappearing at times in the game but then out of nowhere he manages to make a huge difference. Argentina are contenders for the WC because of him (no disrespect to the other players) I really believe he is capable of carrying them all the way, he is that good.

he didn't really have a sniff all game as he was doubled up on throughout. the one point when he wasn't, (91st minute was it?) he done the magic. Credit to iran as they were fecked after their performance but it shows the old cliché of just needing that one moment of tiredness to inflict the killer blow. that's why players like him are different
 
Messi did what Messi does. He has a habbit of disappearing at times in the game but then out of nowhere he manages to make a huge difference. Argentina are contenders for the WC because of him (no disrespect to the other players) I really believe he is capable of carrying them all the way, he is that good.

But that's the point some people are trying to make here, that this wasn't at all a habit of Messi in the period 2005-11, it's only really since the 2011/12 season that he's (severely) limited his action range (as @Brwned points out, likely on the advice of Guardiola) which is what prompted the (even more) insane stats he's been posting since then. Before that season, IMO, he was an 9/10 performer in practically every game, now it's probably down to 1 in 2 or even 3 games where he would deserve such a high rating.

With Argentina however he more or less kept working for the team and under Sabella he's found a platform to be influential in both build-up and efficient in the end product, which is something that was somewhat lacking before (the latter part anyway). His form for the NT from 2011-13 was exquisite, but since that injury against PSG and then later in that same year against Almería, he's been lacking that spark, looking lethargic, at least more frequently than before.

Frankly I was more disappointed by his performance against Bosnia-Herzegovina (although there was a marked improvement in the 2nd half it was still quite sloppy) than against Iran. BIH didn't exactly park a bus, even if they were less adventurous than usual. The 5-3-2, which Sabella only ever used in tough away games during qualifying (Colombia and Bolivia away, I believe), didn't help him, but he lost possession too easily all on his own and it was a very flat performance overall. Second half with the 4-3-3 showed a little bit better what he can do if the opponent isn't camping with all 10 outfield players around their own box, but it was all a bit imprecise from the entire Arg offense.

The Iran game was expected. They bunkered and Arg don't have the creativity in MF to tear something like that down. Their main strength is on the counter.
 
But that's the point some people are trying to make here, that this wasn't at all a habit of Messi in the period 2005-11, it's only really since the 2011/12 season that he's (severely) limited his action range (as @Brwned points out, likely on the advice of Guardiola) which is what prompted the (even more) insane stats he's been posting since then. Before that season, IMO, he was an 9/10 performer in practically every game, now it's probably down to 1 in 2 or even 3 games where he would deserve such a high rating.

With Argentina however he more or less kept working for the team and under Sabella he's found a platform to be influential in both build-up and efficient in the end product, which is something that was somewhat lacking before (the latter part anyway). His form for the NT from 2011-13 was exquisite, but since that injury against PSG and then later in that same year against Almería, he's been lacking that spark, looking lethargic, at least more frequently than before.

Frankly I was more disappointed by his performance against Bosnia-Herzegovina (although there was a marked improvement in the 2nd half it was still quite sloppy) than against Iran. BIH didn't exactly park a bus, even if they were less adventurous than usual. The 5-3-2, which Sabella only ever used in tough away games during qualifying (Colombia and Bolivia away, I believe), didn't help him, but he lost possession too easily all on his own and it was a very flat performance overall. Second half with the 4-3-3 showed a little bit better what he can do if the opponent isn't camping with all 10 outfield players around their own box, but it was all a bit imprecise from the entire Arg offense.

The Iran game was expected. They bunkered and Arg don't have the creativity in MF to tear something like that down. Their main strength is on the counter.

I dont think theres a problem in him disappearing at times as long as he eventually comes through no one is going to critisize him. Pep switched him to a false 9 in 2009 I think and his numbers became astronomical. For me there is no issue in building an entire team to accomodate Messi because he is without a doubt one of the greatest players to ever play. France played around Zidane, Brazil played around Ronaldo etc and the same should be with Messi. As for performances in the first round frankly for me it doesnt matter at all the most important thing is actually qualifying to the round of 16. Ask any England fan if they would trade in their "good" performances for two wins and a place in the next round.
 
Robben lol:lol:

Can you even judge him? :lol:

Or are you just watching what the media and hype trains say?

At the moment i rate Robben clearly higher than Messi. Not in terms of marketing and media, in terms of playing football only.
 
Can you even judge him? :lol:

Or are you just watching what the media and hype trains say?

At the moment i rate Robben clearly higher than Messi. Not in terms of marketing and media, in terms of playing football only.


I can understand where you come from. Robben has been truly amazing in this world cup, in better form than Messi for me.
However it's still really early stage in this tournament. It'd be better to wait until WC is over to judge their performances.
 
Robben has been the best player in WC so far.
All his 3 goals are class and his overall play has been great.
 
I can understand where you come from. Robben has been truly amazing in this world cup, in better form than Messi for me.
However it's still really early stage in this tournament. It'd be better to wait until WC is over to judge their performances.

Not only in the world cup. For Bayern he has been constantly amazing too. Easily their best player of the season.
 
Robben has been the best player in WC so far.
All his 3 goals are class and his overall play has been great.


Plus he has faced tougher opposition too. I would say Benzema is a close 2nd he really has come alive in this tournament.
 
Not only in the world cup. For Bayern he has been constantly amazing too. Easily their best player of the season.
Yeah true
Its a shame Robben will not come close to Messi in career because he is a really talented player
 
Why you wouldn't warm to a player as brilliant as him baffles me....

I don't get this, because he scored against us and won his team the cup i should dislike player X
I'll tell you why. It's the same reason the greatest players in other sports are often compared to the other greats of their era ,who even though they are a rung below are always brought into the conversation. Usually pure jealousy or the fact that said 'best player' is constantly praised. A great example would be Sachin Tendulkar, the cricket batsman.He is deified in India to the point of embarrassment, but he's also that good. He gets compared to lesser players all the time, check out any Guardian thread on him or any Cricinfo piece and most of the comments are "...very good,not as good as so and so" , or "overrated , X has a higher batting average, or Y scored a century at lords".

I too had the same problem with Messi.

This is how I thought of him initially:

I am envious and I hate the fact that this guy the best in the world doesn't play for my club. Why can't he play for my team? Why do I have to worship at his altar? He isn't that good.. just supported by Xavi/Iniesta. Without them he's nothing. But then I saw him play as a teenager, destroy my team for twenty minutes, I loved his speed and power but also the subtle turns and the ridiculous elegance, and then suddenly I thought think 'but wait I hate this prick.'
I started to look for loopholes in his near flawless technique. He can't do anything with his right, can't head (and then he goes and does it against my team in a final ,out jumping your all time favourite 6'6 giant of a player). Two years later he's back ,better , he's done it again. Lucky goal I shout this time and maybe it's true but he's still made two of the best defenders around look pretty average.

Now I accept how good he is.He has this constant relentless need to improve.Every year from the time he was 20 he added something to his game. First it was goals , then acceleration, consistency, freekicks, his vision and range of passing, unselfish play. Now the only thing left is adapting his game into his thirties. But It's not about the goals, it's never been about the goals. Even if he scored 15 instead of 50 a season he would be the best around. His judicious use of his speed and skill, the space and extra 2 seconds he finds on the pitch is what sets him apart. What is so striking about him and Tendulkar is that they can be the best around at two or three positions in their sport. Even if he was a bit of an arse to Ibra and Villa I can forgive him.

I was wrong and I hate to admit it about Messi, he is clearly the best player I've ever seen in Football. I accepted that over the last 2 years, I probably regret that I haven't seen him play as much as I would have liked to, because of midnight Barca games and power fluctuations. I now love watching him play even though some part of me is sickened when he scores a beauty like he did last night or waltz past three players and casually put it in the back of the net like he did when he played Madrid in the semis. I want to shout that the art of defending is dead but I know that's not true. Messi is just that good. I missed the Bosnia game because I had an exam. I got to see him play yesterday and I hope I get to see more of him over the next few weeks. As I get older I want to watch the greatest players of the future generations and enjoy them without the irrational need to knock them or hate them like I did with Messi. I want to go 'HOW DID HE DO THAT?" and gawp instead of saying 'feck it the opposition are rubbish". The same thing with Suarez, I hate the fact Liverpool have him, despite all his antics he's a smashing player and that's why I really want someone like that on my team.

God gave Messi more talent than most and Messi held up his side of the bargain. I can't hate a man who could have coasted and become a bit of a wastrel but became an all time great. To have little talent and maximize it like Gary Neville earns my respect, so does having it all and still persevering.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Marcosdeto
The MESSIah. The GOAT. Wouldn't he love a team as organized as Maradonas.....prob could hit like 14 goals in a single world cup.
 
I'll tell you why. It's the same reason the greatest players in other sports are often compared to the other greats of their era ,who even though they are a rung below are always brought into the conversation. Usually pure jealousy or the fact that said 'best player' is constantly praised. A great example would be Sachin Tendulkar, the cricket batsman.He is deified in India to the point of embarrassment, but he's also that good. He gets compared to lesser players all the time, check out any Guardian thread on him or any Cricinfo piece and most of the comments are "...very good,not as good as so and so" , or "overrated , X has a higher batting average, or Y scored a century at lords".

I too had the same problem with Messi.

This is how I thought of him initially:

I am envious and I hate the fact that this guy the best in the world doesn't play for my club. Why can't he play for my team? Why do I have to worship at his altar? He isn't that good.. just supported by Xavi/Iniesta. Without them he's nothing. But then I saw him play as a teenager, destroy my team for twenty minutes, I loved his speed and power but also the subtle turns and the ridiculous elegance, and then suddenly I thought think 'but wait I hate this prick.'
I started to look for loopholes in his near flawless technique. He can't do anything with his right, can't head (and then he goes and does it against my team in a final ,out jumping your all time favourite 6'6 giant of a player). Two years later he's back ,better , he's done it again. Lucky goal I shout this time and maybe it's true but he's still made two of the best defenders around look pretty average.

Now I accept how good he is.He has this constant relentless need to improve.Every year from the time he was 20 he added something to his game. First it was goals , then acceleration, consistency, freekicks, his vision and range of passing, unselfish play. Now the only thing left is adapting his game into his thirties. But It's not about the goals, it's never been about the goals. Even if he scored 15 instead of 50 a season he would be the best around. His judicious use of his speed and skill, the space and extra 2 seconds he finds on the pitch is what sets him apart. What is so striking about him and Tendulkar is that they can be the best around at two or three positions in their sport. Even if he was a bit of an arse to Ibra and Villa I can forgive him.

I was wrong and I hate to admit it about Messi, he is clearly the best player I've ever seen in Football. I accepted that over the last 2 years, I probably regret that I haven't seen him play as much as I would have liked to, because of midnight Barca games and power fluctuations. I now love watching him play even though some part of me is sickened when he scores a beauty like he did last night or waltz past three players and casually put it in the back of the net like he did when he played Madrid in the semis. I want to shout that the art of defending is dead but I know that's not true. Messi is just that good. I missed the Bosnia game because I had an exam. I got to see him play yesterday and I hope I get to see more of him over the next few weeks. As I get older I want to watch the greatest players of the future generations and enjoy them without the irrational need to knock them or hate them like I did with Messi. I want to go 'HOW DID HE DO THAT?" and gawp instead of saying 'feck it the opposition are rubbish". The same thing with Suarez, I hate the fact Liverpool have him, despite all his antics he's a smashing player and that's why I really want someone like that on my team.

God gave Messi more talent than most and Messi held up his side of the bargain. I can't hate a man who could have coasted and become a bit of a wastrel but became an all time great. To have little talent and maximize it like Gary Neville earns my respect, so does having it all and still persevering.
Wow this is like a story
Nice post
 
Well, he's not been at his best, nor does he look to be at his fittest. I know he describes the vomiting fits as, "normal, nothing to worry about" and says that they happen in training and at home, but still that doesn't sound like the best base to me. If he can avoid running around in daytime games and still be decisive, as he has been, that's all the better. Lots of matches and not much recovery time is a feature of tournament play.

I'm still baffled about this legacy and GOAT stuff though. What's the rush? I know we're in the twitter - first to the news - generation, but history and legacy are just that. They come after the event. It's like listening to butterfly hunters - they love their lepidoptera, but you get the idea they won't be truly happy until it's dead, pinned to a board and with a catalogue number underneath.

He's 26 (alright so he's 27 on Tuesday) and it's long been argued that his footballing skill and intelligence will make him deadly even without the bursts of pace. There's no hurry.