Thats almost my story!!! Kudos
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
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Thats almost my story!!! Kudos
I agree, but I think that's because there's almost nothing left to argue about when people talk about him. for me, he's already the best ever when we talk about club football. very few people can match his accomplishments with Barca so there's really not much left to argue about besides his records in world cups and comparision with Maradona. I'm convinced that even that would have been solved long ago if he didn't reject Spain. but I agree, that GOAT title is probably more important to his fanboys than it is to himself.
As right as you are, the "hate" probably has to do with more things that the ones you dealt with. In this post it shows you are a highly conscious poster (and person). First to be able to identify what was the chain of mental processes that led you to "hate" Messi. Secondly by merely accepting these reasons of "hate" (different to identifying them), because from there you can start analyzing what the Argentinian does on the pitch with different speckles.
But we can also understand from your post that what a person prejudges from another has to do with what we see of the player (information) and what our pride needs. In this mix we can influence the second factor so it doesn't become too influential, for this we must build on personal confidence, since we impose the same defense in our private lives (with jealousy etc.) to the institutions we believe define us, and sometimes, we defend them even more, hence the fanaticism. But on the other hand, we cannot influence too much on the information we receive without an extra effort every day, an effort that does not help us much in our daily life, because sometimes we do not have time for it (it being, for example, reading only journalists who do good articles which requires to compare them and understand that they are not always good in all subjects, comprehensively analyzing games to separate those who committed mistakes from the ones that were influenced by them, etc.). Today information perceived from other leagues is very fuzzy, because if we can't see in a regular basis matches from "x" player, and we rely on highlights, or media, or statistics, clearly we will be creating an image based in very fuzzy data, and the second factor I talked about (ego needs) will determine what information is relevant so the create the image of "x" player.
There are also external factors such as discussions with people, on this same forum for example, with fanatical issues regarding Messi, a fact that naturally causes a reaction from others more neutral, at first, to try to lower Messis appreciation since it seems exaggerated what some say. This is normal, but not everyone is self-aware enough to realize when acting under these reactions so for him to later reassess his opinion (the same goes the other way around). Besides, other people that still don't have a defined image from Messi read those comments from people they respect, and take the wrong conclusions. You can see that in the main, were the most respected posters have to continuously explain why and in what context they are saying this and that, because many others can't separate it by their own.
In conclusion, it is very difficult to get reviews from many players in many leagues where many give their own opinions varying in good and bad intentions, with this in mind, we only can try explaining to someone that over or underestimates "x" player by helping him to understand how to analyze a game and later inducing him to see that players games so for him to do his own analysis. Showing statistics, highlights, quotes, etc., is something people already know doesn't define a player, we just use it because it's opportunistic and we don't care so much to think in a long term explanation that will save us from the other person giving us the same reasons later that we already knew didn't define a player.
Sry for my english.
Are messi and aguero best friends
All detailed stats for all WC matches.
http://resources.fifa.com/worldcup/organisation/documents/index.html
Good point. Both Kun and Messi's stats are similar, with lot of time spent in low activity period. Kun had bad time with injury, is Messi facing something same, or just he is playing safe? Maybe mentally they both are not 100% sure to try any risky maneuvers.
Could be useful with a guy like Lavezzi who simply has more movement. Lavezzi though had a bad game during warm-up games, missed a lot of chances.
His stats so far:
Games: 2.
Goals: 2.
Chances created: 7.
Dribbles completed: 14.
Passes: 95/112.
I rate Messi as the best player of his generation but best of all-time I simply cannot. There's plenty of competition for that title which is not objective but fueled by opinions. It's also nigh on impossible to compare eras, and I never got to watch the likes of Best, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Beckenbauer, et al. Pele had great players around him but he also made those players greater. Maradona practically carried Argentina to a World Cup title, and certainly did so with Napoli in Serie A. Messi has been surrounded by great players at Barca but he's also bailed them out numerous times. I can't begin to imagine where Best would be rated had he been born for a better internationally competing country. Cruyff would possibly be rated the best had he won a World Cup, such is both the importance and ridiculousness of opinions by many. Beckenbauer doesn't receive the GOAT accolades he may deserve. Yet Messi hasn't won it (yet, if ever) and fanbois go nuts on anointing him.
We do live in a social media driven, instant everything, 24-hr sports cycle so today's current athletes get more notoriety which leads to extreme overrating and anointing. LeBron James is rated by some as the best ever in his sport which is asinine. Top five maybe but not best ever. Not yet at least. Why the need to anoint someone the GOAT gets me. Who the feck cares. Just enjoy the current era.
The image below could easily be changed from God to Messi and aptly describe what really gets my blood boiling. Instead of celebrating a great player, we have fanbois that go berserk and hyperbole everything, rush to anoint Messi as the GOAT, etc. The fanbois are no different than overzealous religious nutters.
I don't believe in God but Messi clearly exists.
We do live in a social media driven, instant everything, 24-hr sports cycle so today's current athletes get more notoriety which leads to extreme overrating and anointing. LeBron James is rated by some as the best ever in his sport which is asinine. Top five maybe but not best ever. Not yet at least. Why the need to anoint someone the GOAT gets me. Who the feck cares. Just enjoy the current era.
The image below could easily be changed from God to Messi and aptly describe what really gets my blood boiling. Instead of celebrating a great player, we have fanbois that go berserk and hyperbole everything, rush to anoint Messi as the GOAT, etc. The fanbois are no different than overzealous religious nutters.
I don't believe in God but Messi clearly exists.
It's the same with any sportsman as good as messi. How can a footballer or sportsman be as good as messi has been and there not be a clamour to anoint him the greatest ever?I rate Messi as the best player of his generation but best of all-time I simply cannot. There's plenty of competition for that title which is not objective but fueled by opinions. It's also nigh on impossible to compare eras, and I never got to watch the likes of Best, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Beckenbauer, et al. Pele had great players around him but he also made those players greater. Maradona practically carried Argentina to a World Cup title, and certainly did so with Napoli in Serie A. Messi has been surrounded by great players at Barca but he's also bailed them out numerous times. I can't begin to imagine where Best would be rated had he been born for a better internationally competing country. Cruyff would possibly be rated the best had he won a World Cup, such is both the importance and ridiculousness of opinions by many. Beckenbauer doesn't receive the GOAT accolades he may deserve. Yet Messi hasn't won it (yet, if ever) and fanbois go nuts on anointing him.
We do live in a social media driven, instant everything, 24-hr sports cycle so today's current athletes get more notoriety which leads to extreme overrating and anointing. LeBron James is rated by some as the best ever in his sport which is asinine. Top five maybe but not best ever. Not yet at least. Why the need to anoint someone the GOAT gets me. Who the feck cares. Just enjoy the current era.
The image below could easily be changed from God to Messi and aptly describe what really gets my blood boiling. Instead of celebrating a great player, we have fanbois that go berserk and hyperbole everything, rush to anoint Messi as the GOAT, etc. The fanbois are no different than overzealous religious nutters.
I don't believe in God but Messi clearly exists.
I don't really see why there needs to be any clamour. What is it people get out of it? Why does anyone care? The only thing I can think of is that because he's our star in our era.
I rate Messi as the best player of his generation but best of all-time I simply cannot. There's plenty of competition for that title which is not objective but fueled by opinions. It's also nigh on impossible to compare eras, and I never got to watch the likes of Best, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Beckenbauer, et al. Pele had great players around him but he also made those players greater. Maradona practically carried Argentina to a World Cup title, and certainly did so with Napoli in Serie A. Messi has been surrounded by great players at Barca but he's also bailed them out numerous times. I can't begin to imagine where Best would be rated had he been born for a better internationally competing country. Cruyff would possibly be rated the best had he won a World Cup, such is both the importance and ridiculousness of opinions by many. Beckenbauer doesn't receive the GOAT accolades he may deserve. Yet Messi hasn't won it (yet, if ever) and fanbois go nuts on anointing him.
We do live in a social media driven, instant everything, 24-hr sports cycle so today's current athletes get more notoriety which leads to extreme overrating and anointing. LeBron James is rated by some as the best ever in his sport which is asinine. Top five maybe but not best ever. Not yet at least. Why the need to anoint someone the GOAT gets me. Who the feck cares. Just enjoy the current era.
The image below could easily be changed from God to Messi and aptly describe what really gets my blood boiling. Instead of celebrating a great player, we have fanbois that go berserk and hyperbole everything, rush to anoint Messi as the GOAT, etc. The fanbois are no different than overzealous religious nutters.
I don't believe in God but Messi clearly exists.
as there are messi fanbois there are also messi haters
the difference is that i don't like messi more because of the haters, but you dislike him because of the fanbois
i'm a happy man
You also like him because he's Argentinian, which renders your retort moot.
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Obviously everyone wants the star of his own era to be the "greatest ever" so they can convince themselves they've seen it live. I imagine the majority of people who follow sports and discuss regularly about it in the Internet are between 14 and 28 years old and just about remember the Ronaldo-Zidane era. If you watched Maradona in the mid 80s with a clear mind, i. e. being older than 12, you are almost 50 now. The Beckenbauer, Pelé, Di Stefano eras date back even more.
Obviously you can be 20 and still watch old footage as there are full games available in the Interwebs but there is only few of us who do that, right?
Obviously you can be 20 and still watch old footage as there are full games available in the Interwebs but there is only few of us who do that, right?
People like to discuss who the greatest at something is because it's an interesting and fascinating topic. When a player performs ridiculously well in any sport, there will always be discussion about where he stands in the game. And when he's that good he will have tons of people who become fans of his/his game. Those people, and others who genuinely believe him to be the greatest, will tend to say so. It's really not that big a deal. It's like you want people to change. It will happen. With messi. With the next great sportsman and in most sports.
@Brwned and there is I'm sure plenty of people who want "the guy they see being great" being hailed as the greatest, but to be fair to messi, his performances and achievements have, in most people's minds, put him into the top most bracket of all time greats either way. So it's not even a big stretch or anything.
I wasn't expecting or hoping anyone would change, I was asking why it happens. You say it's fascinating but the majority of the "discussion" is just the usual 3 or 4 points being repeated ad nauseam on either side from people who haven't even watched a game of the players he's being compared to. It's not something most people delve deep into. It's just lots and lots of people saying he's the best with really shallow justifications based on limited knowledge of the topic.
Your just as bad as the fanboysI rate Messi as the best player of his generation but best of all-time I simply cannot. There's plenty of competition for that title which is not objective but fueled by opinions. It's also nigh on impossible to compare eras, and I never got to watch the likes of Best, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Beckenbauer, et al. Pele had great players around him but he also made those players greater. Maradona practically carried Argentina to a World Cup title, and certainly did so with Napoli in Serie A. Messi has been surrounded by great players at Barca but he's also bailed them out numerous times. I can't begin to imagine where Best would be rated had he been born for a better internationally competing country. Cruyff would possibly be rated the best had he won a World Cup, such is both the importance and ridiculousness of opinions by many. Beckenbauer doesn't receive the GOAT accolades he may deserve. Yet Messi hasn't won it (yet, if ever) and fanbois go nuts on anointing him.
We do live in a social media driven, instant everything, 24-hr sports cycle so today's current athletes get more notoriety which leads to extreme overrating and anointing. LeBron James is rated by some as the best ever in his sport which is asinine. Top five maybe but not best ever. Not yet at least. Why the need to anoint someone the GOAT gets me. Who the feck cares. Just enjoy the current era.
The image below could easily be changed from God to Messi and aptly describe what really gets my blood boiling. Instead of celebrating a great player, we have fanbois that go berserk and hyperbole everything, rush to anoint Messi as the GOAT, etc. The fanbois are no different than overzealous religious nutters.
I don't believe in God but Messi clearly exists.
Your a hater....your post shows this
Sniffle. I know it hurts the fanbois when someone else doesn't jump on the same train.
Why would it hurt me
Do you think Messi actually cares about people who hate him?
he is literally standing still for periods at a time. that is quite an unusual change in messi's behaviour that has nothing to do with tactical nous or cleverness. I can believe it has something to do with preservation, but it is a little ridiculous to watch sometimes.
I rate Messi as the best player of his generation but best of all-time I simply cannot. There's plenty of competition for that title which is not objective but fueled by opinions. It's also nigh on impossible to compare eras, and I never got to watch the likes of Best, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Beckenbauer, et al. Pele had great players around him but he also made those players greater. Maradona practically carried Argentina to a World Cup title, and certainly did so with Napoli in Serie A. Messi has been surrounded by great players at Barca but he's also bailed them out numerous times. I can't begin to imagine where Best would be rated had he been born for a better internationally competing country. Cruyff would possibly be rated the best had he won a World Cup, such is both the importance and ridiculousness of opinions by many. Beckenbauer doesn't receive the GOAT accolades he may deserve. Yet Messi hasn't won it (yet, if ever) and fanbois go nuts on anointing him.
We do live in a social media driven, instant everything, 24-hr sports cycle so today's current athletes get more notoriety which leads to extreme overrating and anointing. LeBron James is rated by some as the best ever in his sport which is asinine. Top five maybe but not best ever. Not yet at least. Why the need to anoint someone the GOAT gets me. Who the feck cares. Just enjoy the current era.
The image below could easily be changed from God to Messi and aptly describe what really gets my blood boiling. Instead of celebrating a great player, we have fanbois that go berserk and hyperbole everything, rush to anoint Messi as the GOAT, etc. The fanbois are no different than overzealous religious nutters.
I don't believe in God but Messi clearly exists.
i can easily sympathise with this sentiment, but i don't think there are any sincere followers of messi that feel the need to call him the 'goat' or a god. i've only ever heard people that barely know messi and are simply reacting to the hype of a moment he created use those terms. Anyone that sincerely and legitimately follows him doesn't feel the need.
the problem with the internet is that there are now thousands, maybe millions of people with not a lot of experience of football, but like to merge into the culture. And hyperbole is always a fun thing to indulge in. They'll watch or follow a player, but that player will be all they know. they literally know nothing of maradona's, platini's, cruyffs. And these people's opinions are given way too much respect, because they're put on equal standing on platforms to share opinions. And if you look at Ronaldo's facebook page, you'll find 87 million likes, 87 million nutcases or very inexperienced football viewers that will tell you he's the best ever.
Maradona is still the best to me, pretty much regardless of what messi accomplishes at this cup, but like you say, it's a meaningless thing to discuss.
The way they hyped that up..."are you as speechless as we are?"
You have to view it in the context of how little we ever see into who Messi is tbh. If nothing else, I liked how there's clearly friendship & mischievousness between them. Kun has a reputation for being a bit of a clown of course but they seem to have a genuine bond
Yeah Aguero said that Messi and him are close
If I were to talk about the most exciting player of my era, it would be Ronaldinho, and from the little I saw from Zinedine Zidane, his elegance was the best I've have ever seen, only rivalled by Totti.
No doubt the likes of Messi and Ronaldo has better stats than them, due to them not only having better supporting casts but getting to the peak of their career at a young age. However, the former are just better for me.
No doubt the likes of Messi and Ronaldo has better stats than them, due to them not only having better supporting casts but getting to the peak of their career at a young age. However, the former are just better for me.
How was Zidane better than Ronaldo or Messi...i don't get it.
Also did you see the players that Zidane played with? He played with Ronaldo, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Del Piero, Beckham, Henry, Makelele, Vieria, etc...
He has had better teammates than Ronaldo and Messi
well its not just about having a young peak (you can say that about ronaldinho really..) or about having better support casts (zidane didn't have a great support cast??)
Messi is one of the most deadly combinations of dribbling ability, final pass ability, and finishing ability ever, making him the ultimate creative attacker. Ronaldo has one of the most deadly combinations of speed, jump, and header ability ever, making him the ultimate poacher striker.
That's why they score more. Others are better in some areas, Messi and Ronaldo are better in others.
Messi is one of the most deadly combinations of dribbling ability, final pass ability, and finishing ability ever, making him the ultimate creative attacker. Ronaldo has one of the most deadly combinations of speed, jump, and header ability ever, making him the ultimate poacher striker.
That's why they score more. Others are better in some areas, Messi and Ronaldo are better in others.
My preference.How was Zidane better than Ronaldo or Messi...i don't get it.
Also did you see the players that Zidane played with? He played with Ronaldo, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Del Piero, Beckham, Henry, Makelele, Vieria, etc...
He has had better teammates than Ronaldo and Messi
However, let me answer you, Zidane's technique is just on a different level.
And I wasn't talking of Zidane worldcup teammates, rather I was talking of his club's team.
That said, the likes of Makele, Beckham are just good players, nothing more. And Ronaldo didn't only continue to have his contant injury at his time at Madrid but was going downhill. Juve's team and the tactic used for Zidane is another story entirely.
I believe in the case of Zidane, it was because he was a midfielder.
However Totti and Ronaldinho would have rivalled both Messi and Ronaldo, if those two factors were met.
'Makelele and Beckham ' Just good players'/ Makelele was the best holding midfielder in the world and Beckham was the best crosser in the world. Even if Ronaldo was injured he still only had Raul to set up. What about all those great players he played with for France?
There is nothing wrong with preferring players but don't make up facts to back up obvious lies. Zidane played with just as good players as Messi and Ronaldo. Also Messi and Ronaldo have just as good technique than Zidane.
Totti was never as talented as Ronaldo and Messi
Ronaldinho didnt have the dedication that Messi and Ronaldo have if not he would have achieved more than them. Thats his fault, not the team that was put around him.
Yet many Madrid's fan believes Beckham was a flop at Madrid.
'Makelele and Beckham ' Just good players'/ Makelele was the best holding midfielder in the world and Beckham was the best crosser in the world. Even if Ronaldo was injured he still only had Raul to set up. What about all those great players he played with for France?
There is nothing wrong with preferring players but don't make up facts to back up obvious lies. Zidane played with just as good players as Messi and Ronaldo. Also Messi and Ronaldo have just as good technique than Zidane.
And I repeat Makele was just good player, nothing more. Inspite of his good defensive skills, his contribution to the flow of the game is next to zero, thereby making Zidane doing the work of creating, controlling the tempo and also being himself passing options. He was all 3 in 1 and this made him invisible at times in games. However, if you watch him closely, his works in the midfield are undisputed. And his techniques and skills are unrivalled. That aint lie.
Lastly, Ronaldo was a crock at Madrid and Nobody is talking of Zidane's international team mates because the basis of my discussion is, Zidane's stats compared to Messi/Ronaldo's stats and as we all know, Mess/Ronaldo's stats aren't really great at international level. Get that right first, before getting all defensive.
i am not getting defensive
Why would I care that you think Zidane was better than Ronaldo and Messi
The reason why Zidane stats are much better is because he played with better players than Ronaldo and Messi at international level. Henry, Vieira, Makelele, Thuram, Marcel D etc..were all some of the best players in their position. Zidane was a great player don't get me wrong, one of the best of all time but he gets overrated now that he has retired.
Like I said earlier, it's my opinion. For me, Totti's every bit as talented and more skillful than Ronaldo/Messi. If you can't stand it, then don't bother to respond.
And Ronadinho went into decline towards the age of 28/29yrs, yet the likes of Messi/Ronaldo are about that same age range, right now. So, I don't get how his non-dedication led to him not being ranked as one of the best.
The truth is Ronaldinho would have still been revered and ranked as one of the greats, if he came into prominence at an early age of 18 and was supported with fantastic cast at that young age, until he's 28 yrs when he was on decline.
He declined at that age Ronaldinho because he clearly didnt look after himself. You could see he put on weight etc...Guardiola even said it
Dont blame it on the supporting cast. If Ronaldinho had Ronaldo's mindset he would probably be the GOAT with the insane talent he had. Losing form, fitness and general interest in football had nothing to do with age or team mates.
You're still not getting me, my arguement is on how Zidane's average stats in compared to Messi and Ronaldo's stat is due to the average supporting cast he had, in compared to the other two. And the first thing that should come to your mind is their stats at club's level because Messi and Ronaldo's stats at international level are quite average.
In other words, I wasn't talking of Zidane's national teammates nor performance.
Agree to disagree
Im not taking somebody seriously that thinks Zidane 'had a poor supporting cast'
So Raul, Ronaldo, Beckham, Roberto Carlos, Figo, Morientes, Makelele were a 'poor supporting cast'
Gotcha
'Kin hell. Zidane and Totti as talented as Messi?
Never. Ever.
Never. Ever.
In compared to Messi/Ronaldo's, probably didn't word it right however, you should have known what I was trying to say but I'm not suprised anyway.
I have edited it though.
Not only that, but more skillful. It's not all about goals for me.