Is that true? I thought it turned out that he actually had started quite a few games last season.
4
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Clean sheets
- 5
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
And yet many Bayern fans have claimed that he was excellent for them. The major red flag from Ineos was allowing Ten Hag to keep managing this squad (full disclosure: I got carried away after the FA Cup and wanted him to stay; thankfully I'm not employed to make such decisions.)
No. While it was clear that Tuchel doesn’t rate him highly, he still played most games he was available for.
How is this myth still continuing
That's what I thought. I don't know why people need to make stuff up to support a viewpoint. Basically, he's been underwhelming so far, but who hasn't been?
There were 2 games in the whole season after Dier signed for them, where he was on the pitch and de Ligt wasn't, when both players were available to play.
The 0-3 defeat vs Leverkusen on the 10th of February & the 5-1 win vs Union Berlin on the 24th of April, both in the Bundesliga.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/matthijs-de-ligt/leistungsdaten/spieler/326031/plus/0?saison=2023
https://www.transfermarkt.com/eric-dier/leistungsdaten/spieler/175722/plus/0?saison=2023
It really isn't difficult to fact check this, but a lot of people will still keep parroting the same false claims
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Here’s the real issue, did MDL have PL experience like other options, risking an 18 year old like Yoro makes sense.
However spending £200m on 5 new players with none of them having PL experience and then wondering why we are currently languishing 13th in the EPL and 21st in the Europa League, we should have spent the extra £20-22m and bought Branthwaite!
The simple question is when is the club going to learn that they must be competitive domestically first before they can hope to a dominant force in Europe again.
We came bottom of an easy CL group and ETH should have been sacked then and now what will it take, MDL and Martinez losing another 3 or 4 games out of 7 so we are 14th in the EPL and 25th in the EL.
Stop defending the indefensible and all of the Dutch and Eredevesie mediocrity needs to stop being imported to this club.
However spending £200m on 5 new players with none of them having PL experience and then wondering why we are currently languishing 13th in the EPL and 21st in the Europa League, we should have spent the extra £20-22m and bought Branthwaite!
The simple question is when is the club going to learn that they must be competitive domestically first before they can hope to a dominant force in Europe again.
We came bottom of an easy CL group and ETH should have been sacked then and now what will it take, MDL and Martinez losing another 3 or 4 games out of 7 so we are 14th in the EPL and 25th in the EL.
Stop defending the indefensible and all of the Dutch and Eredevesie mediocrity needs to stop being imported to this club.
He makes Maguire look mobile.
Your argument is some video that was made for 12 year olds by some braindead youtuber
Incredible. Now I see why you don't rate Maguire. Social media and other casuals don't let you.
By the way, you can make a fail comp like this one for every single centre half that's considered to be one the best defenders of the last 20 years.
You're making assumptions. I don't rate these players because they don't impress me. I've watched them both more than enough over the years.
The video is just a representation of some of the struggles he faced in his early days at Juventus and also for the Dutch NT. Are you refuting my assertions over his struggles at Juventus?
These struggles were covered by the Italian and Dutch media. Perhaps you were out of the loop because it had nothing to do with us or English football? Were you watching/following serie A at the time De Ligt signed for Juventus? I was.
De Ligt did struggle at Juventus in the beginning and he never really quite impressed during his time there overall. Sarri dropped him in December of 2019 after a poor start. He was supposed to be eased in but injury to Chiellini forced Sarr's hand and De Ligt went through an initial baptism of fire. He was replaced by Merih Demiral in the starting lineup in December of 2019 and he only retained his berth after Demiral sustained an ACL injury 5 games later.
There were tons of
Bayern fans that said that he was an overpriced average defender...
Ratcliffe said he likes Erik and he’s a very good coach but he’s not the one that makes the decision. Who as the final say? Is it Ashworth or berrada?
The owners have final say. Ratcliffe and the Glazers.
According to Ratcliffe it’s down to the management team. When he swayed the question about having faith in him, he just said he likes him but the decision isn’t down to him.
Big clubs don't sell their 'best' players at any price unless there's a serious relationship breakdown between the manager and the player or the player pushes hard for an exit.
De Ligt was considered to be the best young centerback in world football before he signed for Juventus. Almost every top club in Europe was clamoring for his signature. He has now played for 4 clubs by the age of 25 and the best period of his career thus far was at Ajax in his teens. He was overhyped and peaked early and is now a victim of that hype as he's struggled to meet that early promise.
Two Dutch NT managers dropped him as well from their starting 11 and he's had two poor performances for them when Koeman gave him a chance in the nation's league. How many signs do we need?
He's still young, and maybe the next manager will be able to get the best out of him more consistently, but De Ligt is in the fight of his career at the top level. United didn't have competition for him this summer despite it being well known that Bayern decided to part ways with him. I remain unconvinced
Very bad day at the office but I'm going to give some leeway given the shitshow we are currently. Under a new coach things might get better.
I still don't see what attributes he has that allow us to play noticeably differently from last season, certainly not much more than our other defenders. Surely we have one of the slowest and least agile backlines across the top 5 leagues in Europe?
I still don't see what attributes he has that allow us to play noticeably differently from last season, certainly not much more than our other defenders. Surely we have one of the slowest and least agile backlines across the top 5 leagues in Europe?
Please return Lenny Yoro, that spot needs some competition.
I didnt think he was terrible last night. That beast Samu beat him to the header, which is not that surprising if not great.
I didnt think he was terrible last night. That beast Samu beat him to the header, which is not that surprising if not great.
They still have the final say, they are the owners
But owners of somewhere can have people in charge that make decisions for them. Which is probably the case here. Ashworth and Berrada will be responsible for hiring and firing managers.
Real Madrid (literally the biggest club) sold Di Maria to us because they wanted the money. He had just won the man of the match award in the CL final. He was very much one of the 'best' players.
Big clubs can still sell their best players when they want/need money to improve different positions. De Ligt might have been Bayern their best defender but the number two and three are not that much worse. Selling the best defender and improving positions that need improving seems like it could strenghten the overall team.
what's wrong with it ?
United fans complained about Woodward/Glazers making football decision when they clearly weren't up to it
Sir Ratcliff hired Ashworth or berrada to do it. That should be their job, if they can't do the job, then you can blame Ratcillfe/Glazers
Maguire’s lack of pace is so evident that it somehow became his main flaw in many people’s minds, while in actuality it isn’t. His speed of thought is. Couple that with his non-existing agility and weirdly fluctuating belief in his own ability/inability to do something (that sometimes leads to comical mistakes in possession or, even more often, to him ignoring the concept of an offside trap and allowing space for the opposition because he’s too scared to push forward) and you get a, well, very average defender.
When he doesn’t need to think, the team sits deep and he needs to clear the ball from the box, he’s pretty good. But that + pace doesn’t magically transform him into a great (let alone an all-time great) defender. The mind is the most important thing — that’s why you’ve had your Baresis (almost comically small for a center back), Blancs (who was probably as slow as Maguire) & Koemans (probably as (in)agile as Maguire and not that much faster) playing at the highest level despite their various, sometimes drastic, physical limitations.
I agree with someone that he’s much better suited to your classic 80-90’s English football with vertical play and lots of crosses, although I still don’t think that he’d be one of the top 2-3 center backs on the league.
I think loads of his mistakes basically don't happen if he's rapid(aside from the brain fart stuff), and he's not a bad dribbler, especially early in his career. You don't have to have excellent positional awareness if you're faster than most attackers.
Not saying anything’s wrong. Was asking who makes the final decision.
We will see how it works out when Lenny is over his injury but I think it looks like Lisandro will become a squad player more than a first teamer and there is no shame in that as it is a squad game especially for the English teams given the competitiveness of the Premier League.
The Porto match was an all time stinker from him. Are we the latest victims of the De Ligt ponzi scheme?
So as a Bayern fan you think he was overrated? What do the other Bayern fans on here think?
He seems partly at fault for all the three goals. He appears slow to react and not anticipate very well. The last thing we want is another McGuire but these are early days.
Promising young attackers come a dime a dozen. Real sold and easily replaced Robben and bought Di Maria, who in turn was replaced by James Rodriguez. Ronaldo and Bale were the unsellable attackers. Di Maria was support attacker without the star quality Perez wanted. Real would've never sold Varane or Sergio Ramos at 25 at any price because top CBs are hard to replace.
Prodigious teenage center backs who are starting 11 ready are extremely rare and are rated even higher. You therefore cannot compare Di Maria and De Ligt's profiles.
The current day likes of De Ligt, Yoro, Gvardiol and Saliba just to name a few who are/were considered good enough to start in their teens seldom get sold before they hit their prime if they continue an upwards trajectory from their teen years. De Ligt's career took a wrong turn somewhat, to be released by two top clubs 4 plus years after being considered the best young centerback in world football. He's on a downwards trajectory and Juventus and Bayern sustained losses on their investments in him
The player on the pitch does not meet the hype he's recieved over the years, and ultimately for Juventus and Bayern he didn't warrant the huge wages they paid him because they had players on less who offered more
You lot are watching a different player. The team has been poor but the only individual performances really noteworthy for being bad are Bruno and Rashford. We all know both those guys ‘can’ play.
Main issue seems to be with the manager so why don’t we hold off on slating our new players while it’s evident the system isn’t working?
Main issue seems to be with the manager so why don’t we hold off on slating our new players while it’s evident the system isn’t working?
Fair points re: Lindelof. And I also think Lindelof would be better in central defence. I am not convinced by Dalot however, I watch every United game (my best mate is a United fan) and Dalot has been pretty bad in the two biggest ones yet. Spurs and Liverpool. I do think he's a decent squad player but that's about it. In big games you sometimes rely on moments (good and bad) and that can cost you.
For De Ligt he would look much better with a partner who complements him and a midfield who protects him but the only issue being his pace. Every top team plays with a high line now, the only reason for instance we get away with it is Saliba and Gabriel are very fast and I feel pace can help overcome some deficiencies a defender has by simply enabling them to get to the ball quicker. Its why this '4 CB' thing works as all of them can play full back as well, a position which needs pace. But again, you don't need an ATG great defence to win things, if he has a good partner, a good full back and the most important....a good midfield duo which protects the defence then things improve. I genuinely feel you only need one of Zirkzee and Hojlund, the other spot could have been for a proper midfielder. I'd also sold Antony even for a loss and got another winger who's experienced and ready to go even if unspectular.
Martinez I am not sure what's wrong with him? He looks a total shadow even at the end of last year looked lost at LB.
Most of the managers we want prefer to play a back 3 -
Potentially Shaw as a back up LCB too.
But considering how poor our players have played I am not hyping Yoro up too much until we actually get to see him - maybe there is a reason he came to us instead of R Madrid.
I think however we are a good left footed CB away from the perfect depth of quality and quantity of our CB's providing competition and cover for each role.
So having De Ligt, Martinez, Yoro & Maguire seems like a good quality of CB's, especially if we add a left footed CB like Braithwaite aswell.Potentially Shaw as a back up LCB too.
But considering how poor our players have played I am not hyping Yoro up too much until we actually get to see him - maybe there is a reason he came to us instead of R Madrid.
I think however we are a good left footed CB away from the perfect depth of quality and quantity of our CB's providing competition and cover for each role.
I think all 3, Kim, de Ligt and Upamecano, are good center backs.
Which one is best? I don't think there is an answer to this questions. At the end it depends on the manager and his system. Kompany plays a very high line of defense, so speed is crucial. Thus, I understand he chose Kim and Upamecano over de Ligt.
I think he’s overrated. Not a horrible player, but also far from justifying his fees and wages.
Personally, I believe his standing comes mostly from his status as this super talent and his likeable character. He seems to be passionate about football and makes it easy to root for him. But if you ignore his status and past and look solely at the player he is, he’s just not all that.
Cheers - that lack of speed could be a bit of an issue for us then.
Thanks. Great to hear from those who watched him regularly.
This is the thing, even if he is better than he has looked so far the thought of pairing him with martinez just seems ill conceived. Surely one of the solutions to last seasons problems was for defense to play higher up ans we should have been signing centre backs to enable this. Yoro might fit the bill but de ligt clearly doesn't.
It feels similarly naive to the idea Mount could play in a midfield woth bruno
He appears to be gash.
I tend to agree with this excellent post, it might be that like Maguire, De Ligt is probably better in a back 3 and United may need to revert to this type of formation to protect M De Ligt as well As Maguire and L Martinez, all three are slow it’s just what degree of slowness.
This boy will be fine,stop worrying.